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What are some armies that used clubs in warfare? How do they do against armour? I have a pop culture image of Aztecs using clubs but I have no idea how accurate that is.
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Sep 12, 2015 06:04
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my dad posted:Atlantean EkranoGavins with open-topped 90mm AT turrets crewed by ethnically Bolivian bears from Poland. In space. But what if the enemy has Atlantean EkranoGavins with nukes that go at relativistic speeds and light-speed bike messengers for communication?
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Sep 12, 2015 06:11
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Thanqol posted:I have a pop culture image of Aztecs using clubs but I have no idea how accurate that is. Wasn't that because they wanted to take captives?
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Sep 12, 2015 06:19
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JcDent posted:But what if the enemy has Atlantean EkranoGavins with nukes that go at relativistic speeds and light-speed bike messengers for communication? We're all hosed, and the only defense is six F-35Bs.
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Sep 12, 2015 06:27
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Thanqol posted:What are some armies that used clubs in warfare? How do they do against armour? I have a pop culture image of Aztecs using clubs but I have no idea how accurate that is. Well, depending on how you look at it maces are basically highly refined clubs, so most armies have played around with the idea to some extent or other. Do you have a stricter definition of clubs that wouldn't include maces? (Also, the Japanese sometimes used kanabōs, so there's that.)
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Sep 12, 2015 06:28
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Thanqol posted:What are some armies that used clubs in warfare? How do they do against armour? I have a pop culture image of Aztecs using clubs but I have no idea how accurate that is. The Aztec "sword", the macuahuitl, looks pretty superficially like a club but it's way more rad. Mesoamerican stone industry was super advanced and really good at making standardized pieces of absurdly sharp obsidian called prismatic blades. They'd seat a bunch of these around what looks like a miniature cricket bat and voila! A ridiculously sharp, if fragile, "sword" with no metal required. If I remember right, some Spanish accounts talk about Mexica warriors decapitating horses with them. But Mesoamericans also used clubs, yeah. If you go further North in the Americas, you get cool things like gunstock clubs too.
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Sep 12, 2015 06:43
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MrYenko posted:F-35Bs. Well, now you're just being silly.
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Sep 12, 2015 08:14
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The Maori loved clubs called mere. They were short, wide, flat clubs made from wood, whalebone, or stone (most prominently a green stone) that could be used as a quick striking weapon. They were actually meant to be used with a lot of stabbing motions instead of just swinging like a mace, so some are wary of calling them "clubs".
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Sep 12, 2015 08:15
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Keldoclock posted:Hey Tevery Best, what is your opinion of the recent Polish armed citizen movements? You mean like paramilitary groups that sprouted up after Russians invaded Ukraine? They seem pretty harmless right now, and playing soldier is probably a better way to spend a weekend than watching TV. I'm just hoping they never get to actually using all the skills they're practising - a lot of those groups seem to be overlapping with extreme nationalists to some extent, and I don't want them gunning down Syrian refugees in the streets. But from what I read, they don't seem very inclined towards committing illegal acts of violence, so hopefully nothing bad will come out of it.
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Sep 12, 2015 08:31
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JcDent posted:Well, now you're just being silly. They could be used as clubs.
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Sep 12, 2015 08:37
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chitoryu12 posted:The Maori loved clubs called mere. They were short, wide, flat clubs made from wood, whalebone, or stone (most prominently a green stone) that could be used as a quick striking weapon. They were actually meant to be used with a lot of stabbing motions instead of just swinging like a mace, so some are wary of calling them "clubs". Only the Maori could stab people with clubs and pull it off.
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Sep 12, 2015 09:06
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The Lone Badger posted:They could be used as clubs. The wings could serve as a dance floor and you could put dj in the cockpit, but where would the bartender go?
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Sep 12, 2015 09:12
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Nenonen posted:The wings could serve as a dance floor and you could put dj in the cockpit, but where would the bartender go? In the hydraulics bay
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Sep 12, 2015 09:21
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Tevery Best posted:You mean like paramilitary groups that sprouted up after Russians invaded Ukraine? They seem pretty harmless right now, and playing soldier is probably a better way to spend a weekend than watching TV. I'm just hoping they never get to actually using all the skills they're practising - a lot of those groups seem to be overlapping with extreme nationalists to some extent, and I don't want them gunning down Syrian refugees in the streets. But from what I read, they don't seem very inclined towards committing illegal acts of violence, so hopefully nothing bad will come out of it. Or shooting Russians. Or black people. Don't know about Polish nationalists, but I don't trust ours.
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Sep 12, 2015 09:50
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 pre:You! I wanna take you to a gay bar, I wanna take you to a gay bar, I wanna take you to a gay bar, gay bar, gay bar. Let's start a war, start a nuclear war, At the gay bar, gay bar, gay bar. Wow! (Shout out loud) At the gay bar. Now tell me do ya, a do ya have any money? I wanna spend all your money, At the gay bar, gay bar, gay bar.
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Sep 12, 2015 09:54
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I am including maces in my question but I kind of have an understanding that they're like medieval shotguns - uncommon specialist weapons rather than something line dudes come with. Am I wrong?FishFood posted:The Aztec "sword", the macuahuitl, looks pretty superficially like a club but it's way more rad. Mesoamerican stone industry was super advanced and really good at making standardized pieces of absurdly sharp obsidian called prismatic blades. They'd seat a bunch of these around what looks like a miniature cricket bat and voila! A ridiculously sharp, if fragile, "sword" with no metal required. If I remember right, some Spanish accounts talk about Mexica warriors decapitating horses with them. How do they shape the obsidian? Does it break like glass, or do they chisel it like stone, or file it or what?
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Sep 12, 2015 10:11
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Obsidian is literally glass.
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Sep 12, 2015 10:29
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Thanqol posted:I am including maces in my question but I kind of have an understanding that they're like medieval shotguns - uncommon specialist weapons rather than something line dudes come with. Am I wrong? A mace is a stick. You hit someone with it. You cause break bones and cause soft tissue injuries. It won't rend open flesh and sever muscles and tendons and blood vessels. Thanqol posted:How do they shape the obsidian? Does it break like glass, or do they chisel it like stone, or file it or what? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prismatic_blade You basically take a solid rock, break off chunks. The approach for conventional flint tools and arrowheads is to take a rock, and break off small chunks of rock until you've reduced the original to a sharp object. The small chunks are discarded. The disadvantage is if you break it, you need to throw the whole thing out. This is what they call lithic reduction The other approach, used to make prismatic blades, is to take a larger rock, and hit it to break off regularly sized chunks of sharp stone. These chunks are then embedded into a piece of wood. The advantage is if you break individual blades, you can just pull them out and replace them with new pieces. So useful from a mass-production point of view. Edit: Here is a video of a man breaking off chunks of obsidian to make these blades. He spends the first minutes preparing everything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej3tXEBXngE It turns out you can use wooden tools to aid manufacturing. Phobophilia fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Sep 12, 2015 |
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Sep 12, 2015 10:31
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So here's an early modern question - thanks to HEY GAL'S tireless efforts we all know a lot about how the Europeans made war in Europe, but what were, say, the Spanish doing in the Americas? What kind of tactical approach did they take towards the South American native empires, or colonial warfare against other European nations in the area? I'm having trouble seeing the traditional tercio making a lot of sense, if only because it'd be hard to scrape together the manpower for such in the colonies (nevermind that I'm not sure if the idea of the tercio was fully developed when Spain was at its most aggressive in South America anyways). So how did the conquistadors and their successors manage warfare in the colonies?Thanqol posted:I am including maces in my question but I kind of have an understanding that they're like medieval shotguns - uncommon specialist weapons rather than something line dudes come with. Am I wrong? Not an expert, but I'm under the impression that maces, clubs, and so on are useful for taking on heavily armored enemies, since armor doesn't block the force of impact as well as it deflects the force of a cutting or even piercing weapon. Mind you, I'm not sure that medieval troops had "line troops" exactly as opposed to "everyone brings whatever they particularly like most."
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Sep 12, 2015 11:03
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FAUXTON posted:Only the Maori could stab people with clubs and pull it off. I'm going to use this to plug my new favorite movie on Netflix "the dead lands". It's about ore colonial Maori killing the gently caress out of people and those short stabbing clubs are all the gently caress over. Also awesome ritualized taunting and fighting. Never saw someone be so badass flapping their tongue like gene Simmons before.
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Sep 12, 2015 11:36
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Xerxes17 posted:Sorry I should have been more clear about the time-frame requirement. Minamoto no Yoshitsune is way older than Nobunaga and while not that famous outside of Japan, he's really famous there, even more than his brother who actually held power.
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Sep 12, 2015 11:43
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Tomn posted:Not an expert, but I'm under the impression that maces, clubs, and so on are useful for taking on heavily armored enemies, since armor doesn't block the force of impact as well as it deflects the force of a cutting or even piercing weapon. Mind you, I'm not sure that medieval troops had "line troops" exactly as opposed to "everyone brings whatever they particularly like most." That always bugged me, too. How do their organize dudes in an army in Medieval Europe?
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Sep 12, 2015 11:45
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Tomn posted:So here's an early modern question - thanks to HEY GAL'S tireless efforts we all know a lot about how the Europeans made war in Europe, but what were, say, the Spanish doing in the Americas? What kind of tactical approach did they take towards the South American native empires, or colonial warfare against other European nations in the area? I'm having trouble seeing the traditional tercio making a lot of sense, if only because it'd be hard to scrape together the manpower for such in the colonies (nevermind that I'm not sure if the idea of the tercio was fully developed when Spain was at its most aggressive in South America anyways). So how did the conquistadors and their successors manage warfare in the colonies? I remember reading that some Spanish troops in Peru adopted Incan style cloth armor for this reason, as extra padding was more useful than stab resistance.
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Sep 12, 2015 13:30
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I saw an ad for a new game called Dutchman's Cross, based on the Frisian Pier Gerlofs Donia. HEY GAL, is it something that affected the people you study, or is too far away and old for them to care?
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Sep 12, 2015 15:09
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On clubs. I think there has been imagery of Roman Auxiliaries using Spartans armed with clubs and shields. I think it's showing club armed infantry fighting for Rome, but I have no idea if this is meant as actual representation or Spartans/Romans going "this is what we want to be because we are the best."
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Sep 12, 2015 17:11
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Cyrano4747 posted:I'm going to use this to plug my new favorite movie on Netflix "the dead lands". It's about ore colonial Maori killing the gently caress out of people and those short stabbing clubs are all the gently caress over. I watched this movie last night and nothing about it was bad rear end. Every action scene had me laughing since it was mostly just a bunch of dudes in grass skirts dancing and sticking their tongues out while swinging around ping pong paddles.
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Sep 12, 2015 17:12
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I love the C-130, it's such a fantastic plane. And like the F-35, there's a STOVL variant.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCl3lfAx1Q
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Sep 12, 2015 17:25
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One unique thing about the mere's design is that it's actually extremely thin, almost like a short machete made of stone or wood. Deadliest Warrior tested it on Maori vs. Shaolin Monk, but the Maori "expert" tested it by just swinging it like a normal club because it was a bad show.
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Sep 12, 2015 18:19
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I suppose Irish stick fighting is club fighting seeing as the heads of the sticks can be filled with lead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=868X1FMQRu8
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Sep 12, 2015 20:29
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Cyrano4747 posted:I'm going to use this to plug my new favorite movie on Netflix "the dead lands". It's about ore colonial Maori killing the gently caress out of people and those short stabbing clubs are all the gently caress over. That was a legitimately awesome movie; I was expecting it to be terrible and derivative like everything else we make but it was legitimately good! Poi nunchuks were pushing it a bit though.
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Sep 12, 2015 20:57
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Thanqol posted:What are some armies that used clubs in warfare? How do they do against armour? I have a pop culture image of Aztecs using clubs but I have no idea how accurate that is. In addition to the examples already mentioned there's also the goedendag, which was fairly popular in the 14th century among flemish soldiers. Apparently it was used as something like a cross between a club and a short spear, and was hefty enough to be a danger even to heavily armored knights. It's a rather simple design, but apparently it was pretty effective for its time. 
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Sep 12, 2015 21:37
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There are Germanic auxilia using clubs on Trajan's Column.
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Sep 12, 2015 22:15
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Perestroika posted:In addition to the examples already mentioned there's also the goedendag, which was fairly popular in the 14th century among flemish soldiers. Apparently it was used as something like a cross between a club and a short spear, and was hefty enough to be a danger even to heavily armored knights. It's a rather simple design, but apparently it was pretty effective for its time.
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Sep 12, 2015 22:43
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The early Egyptians used a lot of maces before they had much access to bronze.
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Sep 12, 2015 22:44
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Why did they name their massacres after masses back then?
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Sep 12, 2015 23:10
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Baracula posted:Why did they name their massacres after masses back then? Because a lot of poo poo was tied in with the church.
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Sep 12, 2015 23:16
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FAUXTON posted:Because a lot of poo poo was tied in with the church. A little of that, but more following the example of the Sicilian Vespers, which was so called because the insurrection started at Vespers.
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Sep 12, 2015 23:43
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The last use of clubs in warfare was probably during the Irish Revolution when some desperate soldiers in the weapons and ammo-starved IRA had to use their hurley.
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Sep 13, 2015 03:32
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cheerfullydrab posted:The last use of clubs in warfare was probably during the Irish Revolution when some desperate soldiers in the weapons and ammo-starved IRA had to use their hurley. Probably more recent than that. Any gun that has run out of bullets becomes a club.
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Sep 13, 2015 03:56
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Deteriorata posted:Probably more recent than that. Any gun that has run out of bullets becomes a club. Yeah I mean you can use anything to beat somebody to death, especially an entrenching tool.
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Sep 13, 2015 04:02
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