Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

im gay: Jul 20, 2013; by Lowtax

No charges filed against the officers in the Pasco shooting of Antonio Zambrano. 17 shots in the middle of an intersection for throwing rocks.

# ? Sep 10, 2015 02:05

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# ? May 28, 2024 06:28

The ideology eater: Oct 20, 2010; IT'S GARBAGE DAY AT WENDY'S FUCK YEAH WE EATIN GOOD TONIGHT

im gay posted:

No charges filed against the officers in the Pasco shooting of Antonio Zambrano. 17 shots in the middle of an intersection for throwing rocks.

Was he perhaps a major league baseball pitcher hurling them at 90 mph?

# ? Sep 10, 2015 02:10

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

afeelgoodpoop posted:

"What do we want? dead cops. When do we want it? Now!"

"pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon!"

Oh, a cop was killed? This is terrible we do not support this.

Why would they be upset? Is there any reason for them to be upset? Is there any reason for them to feel sadness when police die?

wiregrind posted:

Retalliation backfires long term and wont help the BLM movement. It shouldn't be championed, history shows that the authorities will try to sabotage protests by painting them as violent retalliation. If you stand for retalliation you're doing a disservice to BLM.

Farrakhan is standing for retaliation and I think you'd have a tough time second-guessing his long term success and prominence in the black community. White folks sure hate him though.

# ? Sep 10, 2015 02:22

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

LorrdErnie posted:

Was he perhaps a major league baseball pitcher hurling them at 90 mph?

An aerial MMA ground-and-pound.

# ? Sep 10, 2015 02:37

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

LorrdErnie posted:

Was he perhaps a major league baseball pitcher hurling them at 90 mph?

Perhaps AIPAC airdropped in looking to prevent the setting of a dangerous precedent.

# ? Sep 10, 2015 03:26

breadshaped: Apr 1, 2010; Soiled Meat

James Blake, retired tennis player and Harvard educated black man was tackled to the ground and cuffed by 5 officers. Turns out that he wasn't the guy they were after and, yet again, the only descriptor needed to arrest a black suspect is the colour of their skin.

https://twitter.com/search?q=james+blake

# ? Sep 10, 2015 10:47

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Stolen from the NBA thread.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/10/n...rgain.html?_r=0

New York Times posted:

Thabo Sefolosha, the basketball player, was offered a lenient plea bargain on Wednesday to resolve criminal charges against him arising from a scuffle with the police in Manhattan: Do a day of community service, stay out of trouble for six months and the charges would be dismissed.

It was the sort of deal most defendants would pounce on. But Mr. Sefolosha, a forward for the Atlanta Hawks, refused the offer from prosecutors and insisted on going to trial instead. His lawyer, Alex Spiro, said his client was standing on principle, because he believes four police officers arrested him for no reason, breaking a bone in his right leg and causing him to miss the N.B.A. playoffs.

At the same appearance in Manhattan Criminal Court, the district attorney�s office announced it was dropping charges against another Hawks player, Pero Antic, who was arrested with Mr. Sefolosha. An assistant district attorney, Francesca Bartolomey, requested that Judge Kevin McGrath dismiss the charges against Mr. Antic �in the interests of justice,� but did not elaborate.

Asked outside the courthouse why he had turned down the prosecution�s plea deal, Mr. Sefolosha said, �It�s a complicated answer.� Mr. Spiro interjected, �He�s innocent and he wants to be vindicated.�

Thank you Thabo, that arrest was some bullshit and I'm glad someone with resources is saying gently caress your bullshit plea deal I want actual justice. Hopefully he turns down the upcoming financial settlement too. I want one of these things to actuall go to court. gently caress spending Tax Payer money to make poo poo go away and keep people quiet.

# ? Sep 10, 2015 14:00

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

Good for him and gently caress that plea deal.

# ? Sep 10, 2015 14:12

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

As crass and a bad idea it'd be, I'd get a hearty chuckle out of BLM hosting pig roasts as fundraisers.

# ? Sep 10, 2015 16:46

tsa: Feb 3, 2014

tsa posted:

There was this woman named Rosa Parks who had some success.

Yeah, but she was a stand in for someone else because the original person was just a little too scary.

# ? Sep 10, 2015 19:26

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Pohl posted:

Yeah, but she was a stand in for someone else because the original person was just a little too scary.

Claudette Colvin wasn't exactly scary. She was a 16 year old girl. It was the fact that she was pregnant and unmarried that kept the local NAACP from using her as the face of the movement.

# ? Sep 10, 2015 20:00

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

Also didn't Rosa Parks get fired for participating in the movement and received death threats for a while?

# ? Sep 10, 2015 20:09

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

tsa posted:

There was this woman named Rosa Parks who had some success.

Lol if you think Rosa Parks, and the Bus Boycotts(Really anytime a minority unites for change) didn't draw the ire and hatred of white people.

Protests eventually worked but yeah. It had to be the so called perfect victim.

gently caress the FBI(or was it the CIA...One of the 3 letters) tried to talk MLK into committing Suicide because they found out and got a tape of him cheating or something.

Nevermind Just found the Article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/16/magazine/what-an-uncensored-letter-to-mlk-reveals.html?_r=0

It's amusing how good of a job they have done at whitewashing history. MLK is only remembered for the Happy parts of the I have a Dream speech in particular, not the Birmingham letters or any actual charges for change in this country. Just all happy feeling good time parts of his speeches.

Dexo fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Sep 10, 2015

# ? Sep 10, 2015 21:33

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

tsa posted:

There was this woman named Rosa Parks who had some success.

Talmonis posted:

Claudette Colvin wasn't exactly scary. She was a 16 year old girl. It was the fact that she was pregnant and unmarried that kept the local NAACP from using her as the face of the movement.

Does nobody remember Elizabeth Jennings? The NYPD, and New Yorkers, were throwing black people off buses long before Rosa Parks.

# ? Sep 10, 2015 21:47

PostNouveau: Sep 3, 2011; VY till I die; Grimey Drawer

Rosa Parks was chosen from a pool of possible defendants because she was the most unassailable and relateable. There were several people before her arrested for refusing to give up bus seats, and one teen was convicted on a trumped up charge of assaulting the police who arrested her, which sounds super familiar.

And yeah, of course there were people pulling the same "Well if they don't want (horrific consequence way out of proportion with the offense), then they shouldn't break the law" poo poo.

Edit: Whoops, thought I was responding to the latest posts, but I wasn't even close.

# ? Sep 10, 2015 21:53

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

Talmonis posted:

Claudette Colvin wasn't exactly scary. She was a 16 year old girl. It was the fact that she was pregnant and unmarried that kept the local NAACP from using her as the face of the movement.

Yeah, scary.
Come on.

# ? Sep 11, 2015 07:12

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/9/america-needs-more-female-cops.html

When David Kassick, an unarmed 59-year-old, was fatally shot by a Hummelstown, Pennsylvania, police officer during a routine traffic stop in early February, his case barely registered a blip on the national radar. By then, nearly 100 other Americans had already lost their lives at the hands of police since the beginning of the year.

But Kassick�s case departs from what has become a tragically common narrative. For starters, the cop who shot him was charged with criminal homicide � a rarity in such scenarios.

Even rarer is that the officer accused of firing two bullets into his back while he was lying facedown on the ground is a woman. She is one of only two female cops ever to face a murder charge in the U.S. for killing a suspect while on duty, according to available data and independent research.

The chances of getting shot by a female cop are slim, and it�s not just because there are so few women in police departments. Data show that female cops discharge their firearms at rates far below their male counterparts, face significantly fewer civilian complaints and are less likely than men to resort to unnecessary physical force when arresting someone.

# ? Sep 11, 2015 07:20

AbbadonOfHell: Jul 16, 2004; You know I would try to think of something funny to put here but ill just pass on that and threaten people with a + 2 board with a nail in it.

Vahakyla posted:

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/9/america-needs-more-female-cops.html

When David Kassick, an unarmed 59-year-old, was fatally shot by a Hummelstown, Pennsylvania, police officer during a routine traffic stop in early February, his case barely registered a blip on the national radar. By then, nearly 100 other Americans had already lost their lives at the hands of police since the beginning of the year.

But Kassick�s case departs from what has become a tragically common narrative. For starters, the cop who shot him was charged with criminal homicide � a rarity in such scenarios.

Even rarer is that the officer accused of firing two bullets into his back while he was lying facedown on the ground is a woman. She is one of only two female cops ever to face a murder charge in the U.S. for killing a suspect while on duty, according to available data and independent research.

The chances of getting shot by a female cop are slim, and it�s not just because there are so few women in police departments. Data show that female cops discharge their firearms at rates far below their male counterparts, face significantly fewer civilian complaints and are less likely than men to resort to unnecessary physical force when arresting someone.

The one woman cop I know seems like she would be all about busting some heads any chance she gets. Pretty racist too. Of course this is anecdotal though so ymmv.

# ? Sep 11, 2015 08:39

Anora: Feb 16, 2014; I fuckin suck!🪠

I know sterotypes and stuff, but I'd heard about the same. That Most female officers tend to be harsher because if they look weak in front of the good ol' boys, they get no respect.

# ? Sep 11, 2015 11:36

Jarmak: Jan 24, 2005

Well I guess we can just ignore that data, we've got an anecdote and one poster's folksy wisdom

# ? Sep 11, 2015 17:20

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Video of the James Blake takedown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui46aPahjhg

# ? Sep 11, 2015 21:41

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Unnecessary use of force. Literally could have been in a use of force training.
No indication he is armed, no where to run if you approach him properly.

# ? Sep 11, 2015 21:53

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

nm posted:

Unnecessary use of force. Literally could have been in a use of force training.
No indication he is armed, no where to run if you approach him properly.

Nah, He's at least half black, he's liable to hulk out and start throwing Cars. Gotta use maximum force on him.

# ? Sep 11, 2015 22:03

Trogdos!: Jul 11, 2009; A DRAGON POKEMAN
well technically a water/flying type

Hey, credit card fraud is a dangerous crime, better not take any risks!

# ? Sep 11, 2015 22:05

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Trogdos! posted:

Hey, credit card fraud is a dangerous crime, better not take any risks!

And you know he's Guilty because no way a Black Guy in nice clothes could be at the Grand Hyatt.

Also I really wanna know what the white old lady in pink was pointing about.

# ? Sep 11, 2015 22:10

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

SedanChair posted:

Why would they be upset? Is there any reason for them to be upset? Is there any reason for them to feel sadness when police die?

Farrakhan is standing for retaliation and I think you'd have a tough time second-guessing his long term success and prominence in the black community. White folks sure hate him though.

Farrakhan and the NoI are loving weird and loving complicated. He is a big step up over Elijah Muhammad (congratulations) but he is sometimes a shithead, sometimes a visionary, often does great work in the black community, and is almost always a bit strange.

I cannot support pricetag violence, but if there is a community in the US where it is least inappropriate, it is African Americans.

(It is still very bad outside of maybe, MAYBE riot catastrofuck contexts)

# ? Sep 11, 2015 23:58

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

nm posted:

Unnecessary use of force. Literally could have been in a use of force training.
No indication he is armed, no where to run if you approach him properly.

After all of the face plant videos I've seen recently, that seems fairly mild.

Edit: I get the whole establish control bit, but at least give the person the chance to comply before tossing them to the ground. I'd guess that most people will. You can tell he didn't struggle or fight at all, and that is with a non uniform officer. If some guy just came up and randomly threw me around I'd probably be fighting back like crazy. Even if they said they were a cop I'm not sure I'd simply comply without some good hard proof.

Pohl fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Sep 12, 2015

# ? Sep 12, 2015 00:13

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

Pohl posted:

After all of the face plant videos I've seen recently, that seems fairly mild.

Edit: I get the whole establish control bit, but at least give the person the chance to comply before tossing them to the ground. I'd guess that most people will. You can tell he didn't struggle or fight at all, and that is with a non uniform officer. If some guy just came up and randomly threw me around I'd probably be fighting back like crazy. Even if they said they were a cop I'm not sure I'd simply comply without some good hard proof.

A plainclothes police officer just sprinting up and grabbing someone with little or no identification seems like a really good way for them to get shot by someone with a legally carried handgun. Or even "funnier", a uniformed officer mistakes the undercover cop making an aggressive arrest for an assault and is also badly trained so he just impulsively magdumps at his fellow officer.

# ? Sep 12, 2015 00:36

hobotrashcanfires: Jul 24, 2013

Dexo posted:

Video of the James Blake takedown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui46aPahjhg

Hey what do you know, looks like he has a history of doing this poo poo with no action taken.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/nyregion/video-captures-new-york-officer-manhandling-tennis-star-during-arrest.html?_r=0

New York Times posted:

Officer Frascatore�s history of excessive force complaints, including at least three filed against him with the Civilian Complaint Review Board in 2013, revealed a pattern of residents claiming they were detained without explanation and mistreated despite complying. It also led some lawyers and residents to criticize the Police Department for not punishing him before he was involved in another rough arrest.

Well, other than charging victims before either they plead to a lesser charge or charges are just dropped.

Good thing this minority has resources.

# ? Sep 12, 2015 04:41

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

hobotrashcanfires posted:

Hey what do you know, looks like he has a history of doing this poo poo with no action taken.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/nyregion/video-captures-new-york-officer-manhandling-tennis-star-during-arrest.html?_r=0

Well, other than charging victims before either they plead to a lesser charge or charges are just dropped.

Good thing this minority has resources.

Frascatore sounds like the name of a brick-headed goon from Staten Island who would have been all mobbed up 30 years ago.

# ? Sep 12, 2015 06:49

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Because it totally is that kind of name. This place is the worst.

Some good news it looks like the CCRB is actually gaining some teeth do to the sheer amount of video that is out there now and isn't collected by the police as evidence than disappeared

https://news.vice.com/article/people-are-filming-the-nypd-and-its-making-it-easier-to-investigate-misconduct?utm_source=vicenewsfb

# ? Sep 12, 2015 07:52

PostNouveau: Sep 3, 2011; VY till I die; Grimey Drawer

I've seen people get roughed up worse than James Blake, but I'm not sure that I've ever seen anyone go from doing nothing to getting his rear end handed to him so abruptly.

# ? Sep 12, 2015 08:11

PostNouveau: Sep 3, 2011; VY till I die; Grimey Drawer

KomradeX posted:

Because it totally is that kind of name. This place is the worst.

Some good news it looks like the CCRB is actually gaining some teeth do to the sheer amount of video that is out there now and isn't collected by the police as evidence than disappeared

https://news.vice.com/article/people-are-filming-the-nypd-and-its-making-it-easier-to-investigate-misconduct?utm_source=vicenewsfb

Oh yeah, cool system. I'm sure it works great.

quote:

If claims are substantiated, the CCRB can recommend disciplinary action against offending officers, but NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton still ultimately has the final say about punishments

# ? Sep 12, 2015 08:32

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

KomradeX posted:

Because it totally is that kind of name. This place is the worst.

Staten Island? Or Manhattan? Or NYC at large?

# ? Sep 12, 2015 09:05

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

hobotrashcanfires posted:

Hey what do you know, looks like he has a history of doing this poo poo with no action taken.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/nyregion/video-captures-new-york-officer-manhandling-tennis-star-during-arrest.html?_r=0

Well, other than charging victims before either they plead to a lesser charge or charges are just dropped.

Good thing this minority has resources.

Hey, I'm sure we don't know the whole picture and James Blake probably made a threatening gesture.

# ? Sep 12, 2015 15:14

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

PostNouveau posted:

Oh yeah, cool system. I'm sure it works great.

It's a start that better than nothing.

FAUXTON posted:

Staten Island? Or Manhattan? Or NYC at large?

Staten Island is the worst part of this whole goddamn city. Filled near to the brim with over privileged reactionary racist assholes, where just about everyone is either a cop. the friend of a cop or the family member of a cop. So god forbid you offer criticism of police behaviors without them jumping down your throat accusing you of hating cops and wanting their family/friends to die. It's like living in the worst parts of this thread only every day.

# ? Sep 12, 2015 23:35

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Dexo posted:

Video of the James Blake takedown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui46aPahjhg

�The police officer was apprehending what he had every reason to believe was an individual who had just committed a crime. The apprehension was made under fluid circumstances where the subject might have fled and the officer did a professional job of bringing the individual to the ground to prevent that occurrence.�

# ? Sep 12, 2015 23:58

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Trabisnikof posted:

“The police officer was apprehending what he had every reason to believe was an individual who had just committed a crime. The apprehension was made under fluid circumstances where the subject might have fled and the officer did a professional job of bringing the individual to the ground to prevent that occurrence.”

And they wonder why people shoot cops.

# ? Sep 13, 2015 00:04

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# ? May 28, 2024 06:28

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

FAUXTON posted:

And they wonder why people shoot cops.

Ehhh that's a stretch, I'm against anyone getting shot.

But that Blake is lucky that his first reaction isn't to fight back if someone is charging him. Because if some dude just starts charging me I'm about to get defensive.

# ? Sep 13, 2015 00:17

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