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Sethex posted:Obviously this isn't me throwing out an "all refugees are fundie idiots" but the obvious is routinely lost on a lot of the Islamist apologists in this thread, so the obvious must be stated. People forced and shoved into an intensely overcrowded shelter with limited freedoms holding 50% more people than it's designed to are prone to fights over stupid poo poo? Stop the presses and summon the scientists, no one's ever discovered that before!
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Sep 12, 2015 13:14
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Sethex posted:Obviously this isn't me throwing out an "all refugees are fundie idiots" but the obvious is routinely lost on a lot of the Islamist apologists in this thread, so the obvious must be stated. I know about the Taqiya conspiracy theory and all, but, you know, I still think a guy who tore off pages from a Koran to throw them in the toilet is not actually a Daesh sleeper agent.
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Sep 12, 2015 13:36
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Sethex posted:Here is exactly how not to prevent radicalization: How are mosques (on their own, no mention of a particular sect or level of extremism) contributing to radicalization? You're very concerned with being labeled a bigot but at the same time very scared of Muslims.
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Sep 12, 2015 15:55
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God I hope Germany is not yet cucked enough to accept this offer, but I don't have high hopes. ----------------
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Sep 12, 2015 16:37
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snyprmag posted:How are mosques (on their own, no mention of a particular sect or level of extremism) contributing to radicalization? There's an almost direct correlation between regions with Saudi-funded/sponsored/otherwise connected Mosques and regions from where people have and/or are joining ISIS and AQ in Sweden. I'd imagine the same is true elsewhere. Usually these funding arrangements, as I understand it, (often through mysterious “unaffiliated” Saudi-based NGOs) are conditioned by Saudi interests reserving the right to appoint or veto either all or certain key members of the clergy and administrative staff. Either way Wahhabi influence (both radical and quietist) is completely loving toxic and best avoided altogether. The problem goes way beyond Saudi Arabia though. Some of the most prominent radical dawah/missionary activities (targeting, among others, school age kids) in Sweden/Scandinavia, for example, currently originate from the UK (courtesy of massive shitfucker Abdur Raheem Green and crew).
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Sep 12, 2015 16:38
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The question isn't the buildings, but the strings attached to them. If the mosque comes with a Saudi-provided imam and a bunch of Saudi-provided Korans, you can bet it will propagate the same brand of enlightened, progressive, modern Islam that Saudi Arabia is so fond of supporting everywhere in the world.
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Sep 12, 2015 16:39
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snyprmag posted:How are mosques (on their own, no mention of a particular sect or level of extremism) contributing to radicalization? Saudi Arabia is funding them, I am surprised I have to articulate this. Saudi Arabia have been known to advance extremely conservative and extremist variations of Islam and Sharia. They literally pay the salaries of the undesirable type of Imams throughout the world. You didn't already know this? Being labelled by a bunch of goons arguing exclusively on emotion rather than information doesn't concern me.
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Sep 12, 2015 17:25
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Sethex posted:Obviously this isn't me throwing out an "all refugees are fundie idiots" but the obvious is routinely lost on a lot of the Islamist apologists in this thread, so the obvious must be stated. Of course Ramelow says there was no excuse at all for "anyone tearing up a Koran and throwing it in the toilet", even if that anyone is an Afghan refugee. He hasn't had islamist militias taking over his hometown after all.
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Sep 12, 2015 17:36
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Sethex posted:Saudi Arabia is funding them, I am surprised I have to articulate this. The only emotion you are projecting is fear. Your weakness is jumping off the screen. You wouldn't be so concerned with controlling Islam if you didn't secretly think it was stronger than your own Western liberal traditions. Please accept my apologies that your parents didn't condition you like a Spartan, instead purchasing gifts for you and answering your every need.
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Sep 12, 2015 17:42
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Islam is stronger than Western liberalism.
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Sep 12, 2015 17:47
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Miltank posted:Islam is stronger than Western liberalism. Unsurprisingly, when an ideology that says "we will accept you and your beliefs no matter how alien" meets with one that says "ours is the one true way and we will push & push until you accept that", the latter tends to supplant the former. ----------------
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Sep 12, 2015 17:50
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Narciss posted:Unsurprisingly, when an ideology that says "we will accept you and your beliefs no matter how alien" meets with one that says "ours is the one true way and we will push & push until you accept that", the latter tends to supplant the former. Which is why we still have prayer in schools.
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Sep 12, 2015 17:52
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SedanChair posted:The only emotion you are projecting is fear. Your weakness is jumping off the screen. You wouldn't be so concerned with controlling Islam if you didn't secretly think it was stronger than your own Western liberal traditions. Please accept my apologies that your parents didn't condition you like a Spartan, instead purchasing gifts for you and answering your every need. I talk about goons arguing about emotions an not information then you argue exclusively on emotion an not information lol. Conservative Islam is weak, but it is disruptive and annoying an is used as a scapegoat among the west's conservative and fascist elements to erode civil rights and advance a police state. I worry about the trends continuing because I'm not a retard. That said I am more worried about the loss of democracy through the EU'S bureaucracy and the privatization of the US electoral process as we all just emulate models of Asian style capitalism. I don't really understand your position, you are taking the time to characterize me as afraid of Islam, because what I say upsets you. I'd say your jimmies are in a rustle an you don't have anything substantive to say about it. Sethex fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Sep 12, 2015 |
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Sep 12, 2015 18:11
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Sethex posted:Saudi Arabia is funding them, I am surprised I have to articulate this. They do it with their neighbors in the region to keep them unstable and to get the extremists out of SA. But I'm pretty sure they want the west to stay stable and to keep buying their oil. It's all politics cloaked in religion.
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Sep 12, 2015 18:23
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Sethex posted:I talk about goons arguing about emotions an not information then you argue exclusively on emotion an not information lol. The fear and emotions belong to you. You fear the collapse of society, like the followers of Wahabbism. In their nations, you'd be among the most compliant and observant of fundamentalists, participating in stonings.
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Sep 12, 2015 18:25
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SedanChair posted:The fear and emotions belong to you. You fear the collapse of society, like the followers of Wahabbism. In their nations, you'd be among the most compliant and observant of fundamentalists, participating in stonings. Thinking the west will drift toward totalitarianism because of Islamic terrorism isn't a fringe theory nor is it equivocal to believing in doomsday. Insults are more effective when they aren't completely sourced from your unimpressive imagination.
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Sep 12, 2015 20:39
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snyprmag posted:They do it with their neighbors in the region to keep them unstable and to get the extremists out of SA. But I'm pretty sure they want the west to stay stable and to keep buying their oil. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11799713 There is a good bbc documentary on it, if you read the thread I'm pretty sure this was already discussed.
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Sep 12, 2015 20:44
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Sethex posted:http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11799713 I guess as an American this doesn't come off as any scarier then the religious right here. It's certainly not good and those things should not be taught to children, but it's not going to bring about the end of liberal democracy.
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Sep 12, 2015 20:54
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snyprmag posted:I guess as an American this doesn't come off as any scarier then the religious right here. It's certainly not good and those things should not be taught to children, but it's not going to bring about the end of liberal democracy. I'm not so chill about abandoning generations of people an women to the mercy of cultural ghettos when simple legislative moves against anti social religious schools or banning clerics advocating terrorism/violence would likely be helpful to their situation. That said, the private sector and ultra nationalists would love for islamic radicalism to persist or get worse. If attacks persist too they will energize an fuel recruitment of anti islamic hate groups. Why would simply restricting saudi influence be bad for the Muslim community? Sethex fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Sep 12, 2015 |
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Sep 12, 2015 22:31
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Sethex posted:
What exactly do you plan to do to restrict Saudi influence?
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Sep 12, 2015 22:41
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computer parts posted:What exactly do you plan to do to restrict Saudi influence? Personally I plan to comment on the Internet about it. Germany already discriminates against scientology, I don't imagine it would be too controversial to suspend religion status if it advocates violence against apostates or homosexuals or anyone for that matter. Or simply expand hate speech laws to protect gender equality. I mean the only people who I can imagine suffering from legislation like that are fundie christians jews an muslims. Restricting the proliferation of bad ideas is something that has been done successfully, just look at how Americans view communism for an example of this. Sethex fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Sep 13, 2015 |
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Sep 12, 2015 23:36
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Miltank posted:Islam is stronger than Western liberalism. Narciss posted:Unsurprisingly, when an ideology that says "we will accept you and your beliefs no matter how alien" meets with one that says "ours is the one true way and we will push & push until you accept that", the latter tends to supplant the former. Honestly, if your country in 2015 is full of cultural decay to the point where you actually pass legislation criminalizing criticism of foreign religions then you deserve to have your society assfucked into oblivion by theocrats taking advantage of it. The best part is that they're still in denial of it. Good riddance, Europe. At least Muslims have a spine propping up their convictions instead of contrarian strawmen.
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Sep 13, 2015 04:59
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Get hosed, fascism isn't strong, it's incredibly insecure and weak, no matter whether it comes from Islam or the west. Both are pretty easy to crush if you put your mind to it, in no small part due to fascists being anti-intellectual, and therefore stupid.SedanChair posted:The only emotion you are projecting is fear. Your weakness is jumping off the screen. You wouldn't be so concerned with controlling Islam if you didn't secretly think it was stronger than your own Western liberal traditions. Please accept my apologies that your parents didn't condition you like a Spartan, instead purchasing gifts for you and answering your every need.
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Sep 13, 2015 06:11
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Sethex posted:Thinking the west will drift toward totalitarianism because of Islamic terrorism isn't a fringe theory nor is it equivocal to believing in doomsday. Presumably due to the overreaction of racist whites? I defer to you; I suppose you'd know better than I would.
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Sep 13, 2015 06:17
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SedanChair posted:The only emotion you are projecting is fear. Your weakness is jumping off the screen. You wouldn't be so concerned with controlling Islam if you didn't secretly think it was stronger than your own Western liberal traditions. Please accept my apologies that your parents didn't condition you like a Spartan, instead purchasing gifts for you and answering your every need. You've pretty much become a 'Do It to Julia' style right-wing crank at this point. Even the most stringently multicultural element of the European left would be horrified to be associated with your viewpoint. Are there any premises of the Islamic fundamentalist criticism of western society that you DON'T accept?
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Sep 13, 2015 06:47
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SedanChair posted:Presumably due to the overreaction of racist whites? I defer to you; I suppose you'd know better than I would. Uh huh. I hesitate to categorize the bulk of US political culture to the white racist camp. I think tumblr is missing a slactivist. The white guilt over colonialism drives you to make hollow pedantic remarks around this subject, we can all see that, your contribution is literally just indirectly or directly calling people racists from your imagined strawman caricatures. Pretending that 9/11 didn't result in a demonstrable erosion of civil liberties an give birth to a surveillance state only serves to demonstrate how bad you are at seeing obvious causal chains because it offends your immature notions of multiculturalism. Sethex fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Sep 13, 2015 |
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Sep 13, 2015 13:49
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Sethex posted:Germany already discriminates against scientology, I don't imagine it would be too controversial to suspend religion status if it advocates violence against apostates or homosexuals or anyone for that matter. If it's disproportionately applied to Muslims, it would be. (Spoiler: it probably would, and not because "Muslims just do it more")
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Sep 13, 2015 13:53
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Sethex posted:Uh huh. I hesitate to categorize the bulk of US political culture to the white racist camp. I think tumblr is missing a slactivist. Is it some reason other than racist whites? That's the reason for the erosion of civil liberties, the belief that it would be applied to nonwhites only. Please, let me know exactly how, step by step, Islamic terrorism will lead to Western totalitarianism. Without white racism.
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Sep 13, 2015 14:24
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computer parts posted:If it's disproportionately applied to Muslims, it would be. Are you speculating that the govt would put in a bunch of Arabic fluent agents to simply sting these religious groups? An if so is the penalty of making religions that preach anti social values pay taxes really severe or undesirable? Lastly I could imagine a bunch of atheists seeking to exploit the law by recording a variety of extremist Christian groups too, they just happen to be less numerous among European religious groups. You my friend just seem more willing to tolerate intolerance.
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Sep 13, 2015 17:03
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SedanChair posted:Is it some reason other than racist whites? That's the reason for the erosion of civil liberties, the belief that it would be applied to nonwhites only. Alright tumblrina I think we've found your ruling ideology an it involves a reductionist oversimplification that revolves around race issues. The Boston bombers not really fitting the racial prerequisites or the thousands of whites looking to join a global struggle in Syria, I think the fact that you are incapable to see the multiracial dimension of Islamic terrorism has more to do with you than reality has presented. I would say the process of profiling is something not really altered by the Patriot act or prism or any of the new forms of an all seeing government. Collecting all data from everyone an making it indexable by a search engine is the structure, not some simplified race issue. Sounds like you crave a racial interpretation so you can feel like a justice warrior.
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Sep 13, 2015 17:12
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rudatron posted:Get hosed, fascism isn't strong, it's incredibly insecure and weak, no matter whether it comes from Islam or the west. Both are pretty easy to crush if you put your mind to it, in no small part due to fascists being anti-intellectual, and therefore stupid. The fascism comes from inside of Europe as a reaction to Islamic fundamentalism. That is why liberalism is weak- its too easily cast aside after a generation of security.
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Sep 13, 2015 17:29
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Sethex posted:Are you speculating that the govt would put in a bunch of Arabic fluent agents to simply sting these religious groups? I'm speculating that Muslims will be targeted disproportionately, regardless of the actual rates. This means that Christians and other groups will be ignored, not some bullshit false flag operations. Sethex posted:Alright tumblrina I think we've found your ruling ideology an it involves a reductionist oversimplification that revolves around race issues. tl;dr - "Islam isn't a Race, so I can't be racist  ".
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Sep 13, 2015 17:45
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'tumblrina' is at least a change of pace from 'SJW'.
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Sep 13, 2015 18:02
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Sethex posted:Alright tumblrina I think we've found your ruling ideology an it involves a reductionist oversimplification that revolves around race issues. In that case, why does Islamic fundamentalism lead inexorably to Western totalitarianism? It sounds like totalitarianism will proceed apace regardless of what Islamists do. Get your arguments straight.
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Sep 13, 2015 18:20
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Miltank posted:The fascism comes from inside of Europe as a reaction to Islamic fundamentalism. That is why liberalism is weak- its too easily cast aside after a generation of security. This is actually wrong. Liberal traditions in Europe are gradually going to be replaced by conservative Islam in the coming decades. The deathbed demography of native Europeans compared to birthrates of Muslims (not including the millions immigrating every year) along with the latter refusing to assimilate in droves is only a recipe for disaster. Professors across Europe are openly calling for sharia along with unapologetic blowhards like this and this who suffer no consequences for preaching violence & hate. Conservative Muslims genuinely do not give a gently caress about accusations of homophobia, misogyny, etc. directed towards them or identity politics in general. They openly say time and again day after day that only God's laws matter, not man's. They're taking advantage of "hate speech" laws and academia terms like "Islamophobia" to silence the few who actually do speak out; if they haven't been silenced by other white liberals in denial already (violence has notoriously been used as well). Europe is hosed. Its going to be superseded by Islam in our lifetimes, and they deserve it for being so naive. Nations such as Russia, China, Japan, et al. are already cracking down on immigration policy and border security as a response to this, and who can blame them. "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - Will Durant
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Sep 13, 2015 18:44
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I wonder how much of that post was said by Donald Trump about Hispanics in the last few weeks.
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Sep 13, 2015 18:45
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Well, here we go, someone just played the Eurabia card. Gas it. Edit: Seriously, this is descending to reddit levels of discourse. VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV Does that mean I can just crack out Protocols of the Elders of Zion and quote it as gospel? TomViolence fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Sep 13, 2015 |
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Sep 13, 2015 18:47
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People are disagreeing with me, gas it! This is Debate and Discussion, not Circlejerk and Congratulate.
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Sep 13, 2015 18:49
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Sinestro posted:People are disagreeing with me, gas it! There's no debate when it comes to preaching genocide. 
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Sep 13, 2015 19:02
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computer parts posted:I wonder how much of that post was said by Donald Trump about Hispanics in the last few weeks. Mexicans aren't bringing terrible ideas and theocracy with them.
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Sep 13, 2015 19:03
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