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Yeah I'm not seeing how the payoff isn't met here. Nay's pretty much doing more of the same and that gets resolved. Granted while I think the payoff isn't that satisfying that might be residual 'WTF!?' from the cg. It does neatly tie up both Nay and Kanon's dives though, while preserving the core themes (Kanon getting to be more independent and trusting of herself, Nay to start taking responsibility rather than trying to ride off of Ion's coattails.) The thing about Ion destroying Nay's world is that they can't do a whole lot about it and doing so would probably be just as traumatic as the first time so they just have to live with it. I don't think anything will further develop on it aside from the standard out of dive 'my super-subconcious has done something and I don't know what but I don't mind this relationship update with these people.' EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 01:00
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Yeah, I actually like the way they set it up. In my first play through I was a bit confused about how Kanon was so dependent on others to make decisions after the ion/kanon 2 but after a 2nd play through I noticed Ion sort of sabotaged it at the very end saying that Kanon can and should depend on her, so that dive actually did't fix anything, only narrowed Kanon's external influences to just Ion. I just thought that was a neat little bit of continuity.
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Sep 10, 2015 01:24
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Nope, Ion is still a terrible loving person.
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Sep 10, 2015 01:56
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Feinne posted:Renall's level wasn't really 'about' Nay and all her 'upset' in that level was exactly the sort of show she put on a lot in this level. Oh, I knew it wasn't really "about" Nay, but it still set up some stuff that I found interesting and was expecting to be expanded on. And then it just didn't end up being too important despite it getting brought up a lot. Also, I don't quite think the metaphor they kinda tried to pull for Nay and Ion's relationship came off very well (it worked better for Kanon). I sort of get that Ion being a dick to Nay and threatening her was meant to represent how like Nay was fine with being treated as if she'd die if she refused because she likes living on the 'edge' and trusted Ion enough to never actually kill her and take responsibility for anything that happens. But the fact this was expressed through Ion telling her to lick her feet, or kill Earthes, or just generally talking down to her and being the worst, kind of dilutes that because it has nothing to do with her actually being in near-death situations. Like, that part of Nay was way better represented when she was running an amusement park full of death-machines. Although, I might just dislike it because instead of it coming off as Ion and Nay using each other, it's that Ion is intentionally enabling Nay for her own happiness since Ion appears to completely understand why Nay is doing what she is doing. So instead of it looking like they're both assholes using the other to get what they want, Ion just comes off as an absolute fucker. It just doesn't feel as equal a relationship as the game seems to be suggesting. SyntheticPolygon fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 02:15
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Feinne posted:The CG art is coming again in this next sequence, but it’s short enough that I’m going to spare you putting it back up. If you feel the need just go refer to the previous update.
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Sep 10, 2015 03:28
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I did say quite a while ago that you'd eventually realize Ion's actually kind of an awful fucker who is really quite good at playing on other people's perceptions of her to get what she wants. We should just be glad she is inclined to turn this towards the world's salvation instead of helping Nelo because she'd be way more effective as a villain than any of the chucklefucks we've been up against, entirely because she'd have acted entirely the same as she has except with a sudden but inevitable and crushing betrayal.
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Sep 10, 2015 07:34
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That sounds like a much more interesting game than this one.
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Sep 10, 2015 08:15
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Feinne posted:Unfortunately sometimes when you look at someone's innermost self you realize they're kind of a prick. I think we should be thankful Ion has a conscience and her horribleness takes form of some mild wierd things with Nay and Kanon (and all her friends I assume) that she indulges in, since she seems sincere in saving the Soleil and all the dumb idiots inside. I kinda like that they managed to write her subtle* enough that I can't shake the feeling that she played the player like a fiddle, nevermind that doing that should be impossible in dives. *wrong word as she's about as subtle as an elephant, mind. I can't think of an appropriate word though.
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Sep 10, 2015 09:08
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Omobono posted:I kinda like that they managed to write her subtle* enough that I can't shake the feeling that she played the player like a fiddle, nevermind that doing that should be impossible in dives. Omobono posted:Re-reading this dive, I had a thought: If the above is true then subtle is correct. 'Nuanced' might be more appropriate even then though. I wouldn't say she played Earthes/The Player though since relationships are give and take: she gets to be special to someone without her forcing it and Earthes gets to go deeper into her relationship psyche to forge a stronger bond and solve everyone's problems through that power 
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Sep 10, 2015 09:23
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Feinne posted:I did say quite a while ago that you'd eventually realize Ion's actually kind of an awful fucker who is really quite good at playing on other people's perceptions of her to get what she wants. We should just be glad she is inclined to turn this towards the world's salvation instead of helping Nelo because she'd be way more effective as a villain than any of the chucklefucks we've been up against, entirely because she'd have acted entirely the same as she has except with a sudden but inevitable and crushing betrayal. You know what she reminds me of now that you mention it, is that one DLC personality for Harvy in AT3 that fakes being nice and concerned about everyone's well-being right up until the moment you fight her. Although in fairness to Ion she does seem to genuinely care about other people at least to some extent and she has legitimate concerns about the possibility that Earthes is interdimensionally catfishing her. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 10:14
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FractalSandwich posted:That sounds like a much more interesting game than this one. Agreed.
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Sep 10, 2015 18:06
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Ion's issues don't seem like they're uncommon, it's just that most people don't have the part of their psyche that's one step above raw demands for food, security, and attention exposed for audiences to judge.
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Sep 10, 2015 19:00
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Ion's very possibly only helping save the world because she wants to feel important and special in a way she never could at home but if the world gets saved does it really matter if it was for an rear end in a top hat reason?
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Sep 10, 2015 22:34
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Feinne posted:Ion's very possibly only helping save the world because she wants to feel important and special in a way she never could at home but if the world gets saved does it really matter if it was for an rear end in a top hat reason? People do things that make them happy. Even when they're saving the world, it's not just because it's the only option left. When you take those actions and then strip out any idea of the world needing to be saved, which is something that can happen in a Dive, what's left but selfishness?
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Sep 11, 2015 02:25
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Yeah, this is really a mixed bag. I can certainly empathize with Ion feeling like she doesn't really matter to even her closest friends, and trying to fix that by saving a world is commendable regardless of how selfish the real reason for doing so is, but the lengths we've seen her go to in the Dive to force herself to be important, even if they're only subconscious, just make her seem more and more like she actually is just a terrible person who I'm not supposed to empathize with. I'm certain we're going to get some closing assurances that she isn't actually a bad person in the next Dive, but, that's also in the same sense that I'm sure the game isn't going to really acknowledge that anything important actually happened once it's over with, save the new attack Feinne will get for doing it and possibly some other goodie for doing them all.
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Sep 11, 2015 09:40
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So it's interesting, Delta and Cass get a DLC dive that feels like the bonus dives of the previous games (perhaps with a slight twist) while Ion's DLC is a possibly highly stylized and not entirely accurate representation of some things that happened to her before she was taken. As the game has already hinted part of why she's kind of a selfish jerk who starts by lookin' out for number one is that she didn't really feel like there was anyone else in her life who was really looking out for what she wanted.
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Sep 11, 2015 15:21
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I have a mechanics question. It's not clear to me: if you pick up the game for the first time and you're particularly interested in one character, how much freedom does the game give you to drill down on their genometrics as soon as you want to? How strictly do they tend to be gated behind other characters' genometrics, or progress in the main story?
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Sep 11, 2015 16:41
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FractalSandwich posted:I have a mechanics question. It's not clear to me: if you pick up the game for the first time and you're particularly interested in one character, how much freedom does the game give you to drill down on their genometrics as soon as you want to? How strictly do they tend to be gated behind other characters' genometrics, or progress in the main story? You don't get gated by the other character's Dive progress but you do by game progress at times, for example Ion starts with two Dives that you can't complete until you've Chained with both Kanon and Nay (so the end of Phase 1). It's different aesthetically from how it worked in the previous games but in practical terms it's not really that different.
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Sep 11, 2015 16:51
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Do you have to do them in order? Or could you, say, do this last one before the Nelico one and the Renall one, just to make up a random example?
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Sep 11, 2015 17:21
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FractalSandwich posted:Do you have to do them in order? Or could you, say, do this last one before the Nelico one and the Renall one, just to make up a random example? I did Sarly 2 after Zill (despite it making no sense) by mistake*, so I'd guess the only gates are plot-based ones. By the time you reach Ar Ciel, all dives but the last node in Cass 2 are clearable. *incidentally, Prime was perfectly fine during my Sarly 2, the devs really didn't think people would be doing those out of order
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Sep 11, 2015 19:21
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FractalSandwich posted:Do you have to do them in order? Or could you, say, do this last one before the Nelico one and the Renall one, just to make up a random example? Yeah, the game doesn't care at all, outside of Nelico and Ion's starting dive being after Nay and Kanon1. In my case I actually had the game give me this ion/nay dive after I did Ion's final non-dlc dive. That might have just been the game bugging out on me though, but the important thing was that it didn't matter in terms of completing either one.
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Sep 11, 2015 21:53
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Sorbocules posted:Yeah, the game doesn't care at all, outside of Nelico and Ion's starting dive being after Nay and Kanon1. In my case I actually had the game give me this ion/nay dive after I did Ion's final non-dlc dive. That might have just been the game bugging out on me though, but the important thing was that it didn't matter in terms of completing either one. No that's how it does it, I pointedly skipped Ion 2 until after Nay 2.
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Sep 11, 2015 23:16
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Feinne posted:No that's how it does it, I pointedly skipped Ion 2 until after Nay 2. Ok, so at least that was fixed in the vita re-release, because on my replay of the plus version it actually opened them both at the same time instead of backwards gating. Still a weird bug they had to do that, since it doesn't make since to do it in that order.
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Sep 12, 2015 00:29
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I was going to try and update today but I"m feeling pretty awful, so probably tomorrow. EDIT: Update later today with the first half of Ion 2, it's not really that long but I've potentially got some work to do next week and I'm not sure when I'll next get to record so I kind of need to nurse my content along. Feinne fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Sep 13, 2015 |
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Sep 12, 2015 17:56
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Your mother is such a terrible influence on that man, now she’s dragged him off to go spar with Kanade for some unearthly reason. I’m going to go and tell her off just as soon as someone arrives to watch you all, I guess let’s keep on with the story until then. ???: I thought it was an illusion, all along, but I realized, it’s not… The light… It’s real… Thank you. You’ve helped me realize that… Earthes arrived in Ion’s final world.  But there was only darkness waiting there.  ???: Heh heh heh… Well, it’s pitch black in here, surely, you can’t even tell who I am…?  Nelico./Nelico./Nelico. Oh, you knew? How boring…That you would see right through this average girl… You’re quite something, you know that? I want to say something, but I’ll hold./Why would this happen? Now, I’m sure you’re wondering why everything is black, around you, yes?Well, that’s because we’re in the deepest level of the lighthouse keeper’s mind… Of course, her heart itself is almost infinite. What I meant is, this is as deep as an “outsider” can come. At this depth any type of emotion or past trauma… Worldly desires are all melted into a single world. And, here you are, about to enter this world so close and intimate… But, how will you navigate through this darkness…? You’ll have to figure that bit out yourself. I can’t give you any advice. I’ll be looking forward to what you do in this world… Whether my life is going to be really interesting or dull is up to you now. A big responsibility. Heh heh. Shortly after, Earthes managed to find Ion.   That’s because… I hid all of the bad things about me, and things I hate about myself in this world.You know, all the bad things, and things that have hurt you… You want to hide them deep in your mind, right? That’s what I’ve been doing until now. I guess that’s why this world is completely blacked out now… How can we make it light? I don’t know.But, if I can fix those “bad” things I hate about myself, I think maybe this world will be a brighter place. ???: You’re correct! Nelico!? You came all the way here…? I always tell you, don’t I? I can go wherever you do.But this is what it looks like inside friends’ minds who hate each other… Pitch black… Nothingness. Nelico, you really are a strange person, aren’t you? Strange? Heh, I’m a virus inside of you!Besides… This world is completely dark, and a place you’ve never been to before… Nelico was still hanging around, as well.  Huuh!? That’s possible!? Yes, it is… If they’re worried about you.…So, back on topic, what you said earlier about fixing the “bad” you to make it bright in here. You’re right. Still, I don’t know what exactly I need to do. That, you’ll have to discover for yourself…But, there is a bit of good news. I’ve got a little surprise for you! Huh!? What is it? Well, that is…She decided to illuminate the area.  This is a little present from me. A little support for someone trying to turn their life around positively. Thank you so much, Nelico! No, it’s nothing worth thanking me for. My power is not that significant. I just made things a little brighter.But… With this, you can actually see your surroundings when you walk around. Yes! Thank you so much, Nelico! Thank you, Nelico. Heh heh heh… I admit, lighthouse keeper, you’ve grown into quite the woman.When I was first administered, I had serious concerns about… Well, you… Nelico… But! You still have a ways to go! Huh!? Take a look below. Your breasts could do with a little more maturing…! Heh heh heh! Oooooh, Nelico! Ion’s better small./I have to agree. O-Ohh, that’s not even very encouraging…! But, I think I’m a little relieved. I’ve only known you since the lighthouse keeper has woken up, but… You’re someone who’s hard to forget.Well, I hope you can keep protecting her from now on, too. Time to go into a world, gleaming with possibilities and mystery. Go and light the deepest parts of your heart. They left Nelico behind, and proceeded until once again darkness enveloped them.  When I stand here, I feel so small…Like a little sprout in a vast and empty field… Something that might be buried at any second… … Yes, I was waiting for myself like that… I was slow and clumsy… People would call me “airheaded.” I… I would watch Kanon and Kay excel at what they did, while I sat on the sidelines… It was always like that. Since I was a child. I couldn’t beat my little sister at anything. No one saw me. ???: Then, I shall always exist by your side. Kanon!? What are you doing here!? I saw that you were trying to rid yourself of the darkness within, using Genometrics.But, the darkness in one’s heart can swallow and consume oneself. Because it is part of yourself, it’s easy to sympathize with its way of thinking… Affirming the dark side. Everything that I feel around me in this world… They’re all of the best things indie of me. Are you certain about that? If I recall, you were quite strong in that regard…Kanon too arrived to offer assistance.  Do you know why that is? …I don’t. That’s because you’ve come into my mind and helped me mature. I-I didn’t do anything, really… In fact, I probably made matters worse… No, your free way of thinking, Ionasal, and your unwavering will looked like treasures to me.By you coming into my mind… I’ve received a great treasure from you. That’s why, I’ve come back here to return the favor. She too appreciated Ion’s presence.  One of the lessons you taught me was to “trust others, and win together”…If one person cannot succeed alone, they can rely on other friends around them to overcome it. Right now, I’m simply putting into practice what you’ve taught me. Kanon… Thank you so much! You’re not as incompetent as you might think… In fact, I find you’re very valuable…Even in the relationship we have together… What’s that? Huh? O-Ooh, umm… W-Well, it’s nothing, really. So, umm, don’t mind what I was going to say… If you’re going to say all that, you have to tell us the end, too! It’ll bother me! I can’t leave this place! N-No, it’s really nothing, I assure you……I- Um, really appreciated it maybe. If you get what I’m saying.  Huh…? HUUUUUUUUUH!? No matter what I’m doing, I always remember what you told me… About making choices. I-I might’ve done something really strange to you, Kanon… Ion is a secret sadist./Kanon must be a masochist. That’s not true! In fact… I’m the type where… I like receiving… …? A-Aaaaaaaanyway, Kanon. Thank you very much. It’s time for me to go find my lighthouse, now! Yes…! In order for your world to start shining with light once more.After all, you’re the only one who can shine light on your own world… Yes! Thank you very much!A-Anyway, Ion and Earthes moved ahead until the darkness again stopped them.  I feel an overwhelming sense of guilt… My heart, it hurts.I’ve done many things I wish I could take back… Partly because of my ignorance, and partly without choice. All the lives that live on the Soreil right now are the victims from when I destroyed Ra Ciela. And, some people changed their lives around completely, because of my presence here. That’s… ???: Are you talking about me? Nay…Yes, Nay… You. Because I came to this world, Nay, your life was turned upside down… Chased out of your own body… And, after that, you must have suffered, with people trying to kill you. I did this to you.  Mmm, well, sometimes I feel that way, too… But it’s not your fault, Ion.It’s not like you came here trying to kill me. And you suffered, too… … C’mon now, don’t get all mopey this deep in your Soulscape. It might affect reality!Now, cheer up for me, yeah? This time it was Nay that offered assistance.  It goes both ways, you know. You really helped me out inside my own Soulscape, too…You know how I’ve always lived life right on the edge… I think I’ve become desensitized to it… So, I would go out of my way to seek danger… Nay the Gale, and the Song Magic to destroy the Sharl… I was always serious, but… My heart was racing for more. If I succeed, it’s glory. Fail, and I die. It was a game of death, in which I’ve involved everyone… You’re the one who made me realize how wrong I was. I have no intention of taking chances anymore. I think I’ll be able to have a more relaxed lifestyle. …I see. Thank goodness… And, the truth is… I umm, actually have no luck with guys? Huh? O-Ohh, I guess so… Now that you mention it… I think I’ve been avoiding them in fear of getting too intimate with anyone.In other words, I was prepared to die at any second… I’d take the initiative and gamble with death. But I won’t do that anymore. So maybe I might have just enough charm to find my guy… Hehe. Yeah, I think that suits you so much better. You’re so cute! What have you got to lose? Umm, Ion? You know you’re inside my body right now, right…? Ahh! I-I’m sorry… I’m just kidding. I don’t need that body anymore. It’s yours.Right now, I actually feel really at home inside this body. I mean, after all, I’m so much lighter! Hehe, that’s definitely something you’d say.I’m pretty sure Nay just called her fat.  In the beginning, I despised you… You took everything away from me. And even now, it hurts.At the same time, I’m really glad I met you. It was all thanks to you that I put all that strife behind me. It really puts me at ease, watching you like this… It feels like everything will work itself out… Umm… Am I supposed to be happy about that? Or are you mocking me? Hahaha, maybe a little bit of both? Oooh, Nay! Sorry, sorry… But really, you’re the best friend I could ask for.The only person that doesn’t get on my nerves, just hanging out. That’s right! Can I go stay over at your place sometime? Huh…? I’m always alone, you know? So lately, I’ve been a little lonely… And, I’d feel comfortable sleeping near you. Huh!? N-No…! That’s so embarrassing! Uhhh, what are you talking about? That was MY body at one point, unless you’ve forgotten… Huh… Huuuh? But… You two get along well./There’s some crazy yuri here. R-Really? Are you sure you don’t have to go soon? Your road’s already lit up, it seems… Yeah… We need to light up the whole world.Nay, thank you. Don’t thank me… We’ll be together forever. And I’m sure I’ll cause you more trouble in the future. Hehehe… Good point.Oh good, that’s the door. Okay, you kids behave. I’ve left the rest of the story here, I’m sure everything will be fine. Next Time, Ar Nosurge: The Traveler, Part 2
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Sep 14, 2015 00:35
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Earthes has no concept of tact. No one in this game does, actually.
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Sep 14, 2015 01:31
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Pollyanna posted:Earthes has no concept of tact. No one in this game does, actually. When in anime Rome, do as the anime Romans do.
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Sep 14, 2015 02:07
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Ion is the worst and every dive involving her is awful.
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Sep 14, 2015 02:25
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This game can't decide if it wants to be a maudlin, saccharine friendship drama or a ribald comedy. I'd prefer it be neither, but at the very least it could pick one and stick to it.
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Sep 14, 2015 04:43
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legoman727 posted:Ion is the worst and every dive involving her is awful. The second half of this one is kind of okay and the DLC is pretty great (though super long). But yes if you notice this level is actually Ion saying a bunch of bad poo poo about herself just to get her friends to say nice things about her because she is a diabolical social parasite. Just be glad we don't have Ion and Luca together for a sucking black hole of people with unpleasant personality issues. It's amusing because you can tell the few characters who really get her, like Nelo, often do call her out on it. Feinne fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Sep 14, 2015 05:13
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Like I'm pretty sure Metallica was a legitimately better person than Ion through most of Hundred Knight, jesus christ. It's actually interesting, because you have the Ion facade she puts on for the world and Earthes in the main game, then you get to her dives and meet Nei Yuuki, who is a completely unrepentant piece of poo poo who cares about nothing but herself, actively drags everyone around her down to make them dependent on her, and probably would have sided with Zill and Nelo if their plan wouldn't have gotten her eaten too.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:38
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Ever since the timeskip happened Earthes and Ion have become lame and awful. Can we get back to Cass and Delta soon? The saga of Ion being a huge piece of poo poo honestly started off pretty interestingly, but nowhere near enough has been done to make me continue to be interested in her possibly becoming less of a piece of poo poo. Because the deeper the story goes into this the less it shows her of being sympathetic in the slightest, while still simultaneously having all the character's be really sympathetic to her. She goes nuts and reveals she's the goddamn worst in Renall's dive but it's cool because Earthes loves her, she manipulates Kanon and Nay's flaws to keep them dependent on her and then they apologise and forgive her before she even comes clean about being such a dick. And now she's just manipulating everyone again so that they will like her, nothing has changed! I can't tell what the writer's want me to think of her because she's portrayed as an unrepentantly horrible person, but the author avatar that is supposed to literally represent me is in love with her and everyone else thinks she's the best. Even after they find out what a bastard she is.
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Sep 14, 2015 06:55
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So which one of Harvet Ismuth's essential third-act twists is "Damsel actually lovely person, probably deserves to be kidnapped by dragon"?
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Sep 14, 2015 08:24
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The next thing will be tying up the loose ends on Ion's half of the shop scenes actually, then we'll be sorting out that whole thing Horus asked us about, then we'll be doing some stuff with Delta and Cass. I think the big 'problem' is that normally these last Dives are all sunshine and roses but as Ion noted herself she's pretty much repressed all her shittiest aspects down into here where they've concentrated and festered. If you wanted to be charitable you could even say that instead of cynically exploiting her friends to feel better about herself one last time she's legit actually feeling lovely and wants to be reassured that they're actually still okay with her in spite of all the bullshit she's put them through. The next one starts with our final visitor and they definitely have almost the opposite conversation amusingly. That said seriously go back through the plot and see all the times Ion snows someone into getting her way, it's really amazing. She even manages to make one of the people it fails on feel BAD about evading it later (Delta). She spent a whole bunch of time trying to turn this into a talking game because she's really, really good at talking. Feinne fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Sep 14, 2015 08:56
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Feinne posted:That said seriously go back through the plot and see all the times Ion snows someone into getting her way, it's really amazing. She even manages to make one of the people it fails on feel BAD about evading it later (Delta). She spent a whole bunch of time trying to turn this into a talking game because she's really, really good at talking.
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Sep 14, 2015 11:13
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FractalSandwich posted:Don't bother digging for it, by any means, but just off the top of your head, can you point to any particular updates where that goes on, by any chance? Her first one after fighting Nay for sure, where she bumbles and moes and whoops Nay's defused a bit.
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Sep 14, 2015 14:05
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Feinne posted:Her first one after fighting Nay for sure, where she bumbles and moes and whoops Nay's defused a bit. You talked about this at the time. I didn't really believe you then, because it seemed to contradict everything else about the game. Now that I've seen it for myself... it still seems to contradict everything else about the game. And not in a good way. Not in a thought-provoking, defying-my-expectations way. In the worst kind of have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too, "she has problems but all she needs is a good man to fix her right up" way.
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Sep 15, 2015 05:33
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FractalSandwich posted:Here? You're right, it's pretty suss. Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I'm hoping you're overestimating the amount of fixing we're actually going to do. If there's one message the franchise has been pretty consistent about so far it's that the best thing you can do for someone you care about is to accept them as they are and ultimately if they want to change that's gotta come from them, not you. That's not to say they won't gently caress it up in this game, because the writing's definitely been shaky in places, but I'll be disappointed if they do. Also as has been mentioned before we don't technically know that Earthes is a man.
Thuryl fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 06:03
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Yeah don't worry they're not going to break the style guide here. That's not what this level is about. At best Earthes is among the people that Ion is deciding to maybe try and be a better person for. And yeah I've actually been carefully avoiding using non-neutral pronouns for Earthes.
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Sep 15, 2015 06:41
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Now you're getting my hopes up for a plot twist where Earthes turns out to be an alternate Nei Yuuki crossing dimensions to help her other self, and that can't lead to anything but inevitable and crushing disappointment. I'm not familiar with any of the other games, so I don't know what would be in or out of character for them. The impression that I've gotten from this game on its own hasn't been good so far. But I can put off drawing any final conclusions for a little longer.
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Sep 15, 2015 10:11
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