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Hey so I watched the start of Ground Zeroes again to double check... Chico's chest hole that he plugs his headphones into... I had to assume that has something to do with vocal chord parasites but why would they bother with the plug? What's Chico listening to when he plugs into his chest?
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Sep 14, 2015 04:43
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Kojima says that the theme of the game is the cycle of revenge and phantom pain, which is why skull face dies at the end of chapter 1 and you're left longing for a proper villain.
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Sep 14, 2015 04:48
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In It For The Tank posted:Race as a theme we can basically ignore entirely because it doesn't seem to have any relevance to the overall plot. Race might be a mangled label for the language theme in the game but I'm not quite sure how that is reflected outside of the plot. In previous games, the theme was an integral part of the story, the characters, and the gameplay. Race only really comes up with Codetalker, who clumsily exposits about the very real horrors of residential schools and the crimes committed against native people, and language only comes up in gameplay through the interpreters (which works I guess) and the Kikongo outbreak. This especially a disappointment, "race" could have been a heavy and relevant theme, considering the whole Africa section is populated by apartheid era South African mercenaries loving around in a majority Black African nation (SA did a lot of this), even covering up horrid experiments on locals, but nothing came of that. I expected some heavy-handed thing about Skullface wanting to kill all people who spoke certain languages so that humanity would be forced to speak one tongue and thus be united, but nothing came of that either. I really wonder what happened, there were plenty of setups where the themes could come in and be relevant, but just didn't. Big Boss could have also had a hand in exploiting these ethnic hatreds and divisions to his advantage or something like that, but apparently Big Boss isn't really supposed to be evil or do something particularly bad even though this game is set during the part of the story continuity where this is what Big Boss would have done. I really don't think this is Kojima's attempt at being subtle with this themes, or anything like that, there's something missing.
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Sep 14, 2015 04:51
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I thought the game & story were good, and i'd encourage people not to ignore the experiences they're having in favor of their expectations. The way it climaxes 2/3 of the way through and then gradually trails off is kind of unusual but I guess that's because the "resolution" came out 25 years ago on some weird japanese home computer.
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Sep 14, 2015 04:53
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swamp waste posted:I thought the game & story were good, and i'd encourage people not to ignore the experiences they're having in favor of their expectations. The way it climaxes 2/3 of the way through and then gradually trails off is kind of unusual but I guess that's because the "resolution" came out 25 years ago on some weird japanese home computer. As lovely as it may sound, I think that is what Kojima intended.
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Sep 14, 2015 04:54
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I was looking around the Command Platform's main deck to see if I could stumble upon Code Talker chilling on a chair (which is apparently impossible and he only seems to appear when you're departing on your heli, very much like Eli). What I did find was a door with a red light, that gave the traditional closed door buzz when approached, near the upper helipad. Has anyone figured out what that door's for? It's the only door I've found so far in that platform that ever gives a buzzer sound. Found it while roaming around with one of my combat unit goons, fwiw
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Sep 14, 2015 04:54
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swamp waste posted:I thought the game & story were good, and i'd encourage people not to ignore the experiences they're having in favor of their expectations. The way it climaxes 2/3 of the way through and then gradually trails off is kind of unusual but I guess that's because the "resolution" came out 25 years ago on some weird japanese home computer. blackguy32 posted:As lovely as it may sound, I think that is what Kojima intended. Eli and the children stealing Sahelanthroups is never mentioned again, a single time, in any MGS game that chronologically came out after this one (and it's never brought up in this game again either) so no that's horseshit. The game's plot, in a literal sense, is not resolved. Outside of themes or ideas, the story has no ending.
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Sep 14, 2015 04:56
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DaveKap posted:Hey so I watched the start of Ground Zeroes again to double check... Chico's chest hole that he plugs his headphones into... I had to assume that has something to do with vocal chord parasites but why would they bother with the plug? What's Chico listening to when he plugs into his chest? He's probably listening to Paz' recorded messages to him, or his own diary. Giving him the walkman back was basically a reward for giving in to the torture and turning on BB. I don't think it had anything to do with the parasites, since Chico talks constantly. Pretty sure he was so traumatized by everything that happened that he just jammed his headphone plug into his own chest to try to listen to his own heart or something crazy, or else Skullface did it as a form of torture. It's not actually a headphone jack - if you look at it, it's just a gross inflamed hole.
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Sep 14, 2015 04:58
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CJacobs posted:Eli and the children stealing Sahelanthroups is never mentioned again, a single time, in any MGS game that chronologically came out after this one (and it's never brought up in this game again either) so no that's horseshit. The game's plot, in a literal sense, is not resolved. Outside of themes or ideas, the story has no ending. It's the phantom pain. It just won't stop hurting.
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Sep 14, 2015 04:58
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Ignis posted:I was looking around the Command Platform's main deck to see if I could stumble upon Code Talker chilling on a chair (which is apparently impossible and he only seems to appear when you're departing on your heli, very much like Eli). What I did find was a door with a red light, that gave the traditional closed door buzz when approached, near the upper helipad. Has anyone figured out what that door's for? It's the only door I've found so far in that platform that ever gives a buzzer sound. Good question. I only recently found Paz in the medical wing after hearing about people meeting her there and seeing that there were videos on youtube named "all Paz TPP appearances" and such. Could just be a door that will never open, could be some cut content, could open under specific circumstances, who knows! I think that out of all of this, Chico's death is the most tragic for me, especially after GZ. Bro just wanted to rescue Paz and bring her home, and then he ends up outing his compas... again... and being tortured a billion times, being forced to torture Paz (amongst other loving awful poo poo), and then ultimately dies offscreen in the helicopter crash. truly RIP.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:00
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Quiet leaving permanently is Bullshit. Taking away the most fun part of the game when you want people to continue playing daily and building FOBs is stupid.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:01
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The Human Crouton posted:Quiet leaving permanently is Bullshit. Taking away the most fun part of the game when you want people to continue playing daily and building FOBs is stupid. If the most fun part of the game is the character who sits on a far-off tower and kills enemies for you without your interaction that probably means you're not going to keep playing the game for long.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:02
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The Human Crouton posted:Quiet leaving permanently is Bullshit. Taking away the most fun part of the game when you want people to continue playing daily and building FOBs is stupid. Also this annoys the poo poo out of me. I'm good with DD but I would like to switch between DD and Quiet like I used to again, particularly because DD always tends to alert the enemy of my position just before I put them into a chokehold. I can get past it, but it doesn't prevent me from going into a quick 5 second panic attack just because the AI is so dumb. Quiet tended to save my rear end way more too, she was kind of the perfect buddy. And now, after doing 45 and redoing 11, she still shows up in my Brig even though I can no longer use her. This is dumb.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:04
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blackguy32 posted:It's the phantom pain. It just won't stop hurting. People actually thinking that's intentional does hurt me, yes
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Sep 14, 2015 05:05
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ImpAtom posted:If the most fun part of the game is the character who sits on a far-off tower and kills enemies for you without your interaction that probably means you're not going to keep playing the game for long. You never had a battle of Big Boss, Quiet and Pequod versus an entire base?
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Sep 14, 2015 05:06
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CJacobs posted:Eli and the children stealing Sahelanthroups is never mentioned again, a single time, in any MGS game that chronologically came out after this one (and it's never brought up in this game again either) so no that's horseshit. The game's plot, in a literal sense, is not resolved. Outside of themes or ideas, the story has no ending. Why does Eli, in particular, need to be mentioned again? He shows up with Mantis on MGS after this game, so in some sense his story can't be resolved in this game.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:07
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Alain Post posted:Why does Eli, in particular, need to be mentioned again? He shows up with Mantis on MGS after this game, so in some sense his story can't be resolved in this game. he stole a giant loving robot that can only be operated by children and in this game he is a child
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Sep 14, 2015 05:07
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CJacobs posted:he stole a giant loving robot that can only be operated by children and in this game he is a child ok? so what in the game's dramatic arc (disjointed as it is) suggest that this has to be resolved? because i had heard about Eli's storyline being blatantly unfinished before I played, but really, it seemed like Eli/Mantis/Robot escaping was pretty much the climax of his storyline, and gives a vague but good enough answer to why he's a big shot by the time MGS comes out why does that need to get resolved? so Liquid can hate Boss even more? even though the narrative pretty much explicitly states that he already hates him more than Volgin does, which is a loving lot?
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Sep 14, 2015 05:12
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Trailers: Sins of the Father > Elegia > Nuclear > Launch Trailer > We Are Not Your Kind of People The trailers are better than the actual game's story.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:13
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Is The Third Child really Mantis? Isn't Mantis around 90 years old in MLS about 30 years later?
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Sep 14, 2015 05:16
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Alain Post posted:ok? so what in the game's dramatic arc (disjointed as it is) suggest that this has to be resolved? because i had heard about Eli's storyline being blatantly unfinished before I played, but really, it seemed like Eli/Mantis/Robot escaping was pretty much the climax of his storyline, and gives a vague but good enough answer to why he's a big shot by the time MGS comes out Because Ocelot and Miller ask you what to do about it, begging an answer that is not there for you the player to give them. Because the credits roll almost immediately after it happens. Because there's a huge build up to it happening that spans multiple hours and a half-dozen between-mission cutscenes. There are so many reasons that plot thread needs to be resolved and because of time constraints it never will be. It needs to be resolved because the game says it's gonna be resolved, and then it isn't.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:22
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The Human Crouton posted:Is The Third Child really Mantis? Isn't Mantis around 90 years old in MLS about 30 years later? Mantis isn't that old in MGS, he's just all gross looking. He was in his thirties when he died, for what the wiki is worth. It's definitely Mantis, there really isn't any reason at all to suspect that it isn't.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:23
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Based on how Eli is as a child and how he was as an adult, we can extrapolate that he simply bored/annoyed all the other kids with his rants about genes causing them to leave and Eli to dejectedly return to the UK. Sahelanthropus is currently deep under the sea just off the Seychelles because oops children piloting giant robots never ends well.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:25
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I wonder how much work it would have been to script a Sehalanthropus fight in Africa. Probably wouldn't have done any good. Those cutscenes were real rough looking (and would have to have been location-swapped) and it would mean in-story that the English strain isn't contained anymore the way it would be on that island. Shame.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:26
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Mantis isn't that old in MGS, he's just all gross looking. He was in his thirties when he died, for what the wiki is worth. Ok. Cool. That fits then.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:39
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Chico is probably the most tragic, unceremonious death in the entire series. Almost every important character who dies is at the hands of another important character, and makes some grand gesture before they die. Chico is just battered to the bone, wants nothing to do with Big Boss and dies in the crash because of him.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:42
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You pick up a gun and someday you might die for nothing - Big Boss, a villain.
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Sep 14, 2015 06:21
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The scene in PW where Big Boss convinces Chico to join his army is pretty creepy.
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Sep 14, 2015 06:38
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:The scene in PW where Big Boss convinces Chico to join his army is pretty creepy. I saw a guy rebuilding a kid's shattered ego and self-esteem through an inspiring speech  But yeah, Chico got it raw.
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Sep 14, 2015 07:15
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Vengarr posted:I saw a guy rebuilding a kid's shattered ego and self-esteem through an inspiring speech I dunno man, performing a mock execution and then telling him to give his new life to Big Boss was kinda messed up. At the very least I think the scene was meant to be a little uncomfortable.
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Sep 14, 2015 07:25
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It is probably significant that Skull Face later parrots Big Boss' exact words from the scene to psychologically traumatize Chico during his torture. That was something I was looking forward to getting an explanation for in TPP but oh well, I guess Skull Face's time looking out for Snake just gave him such a intimate understanding of his character that he can precisely quote him.
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Sep 14, 2015 07:43
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I swear there is another line that Skull Face steals verbatim from Big Boss, but for the life of me I can't remember it now. edit: maybe Skull Face / Zero were listening in on Big Boss' codec for all of Peace Walker  He's been patiently waiting for an entire decade to turn that line back on him.
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Sep 14, 2015 07:50
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Finished this last night. I can't believe that the game just... ends? You send Huey off in a life raft, then it turns out Big Boss isn't really Big Boss, then... credits? I can't believe this is all there is. Yes, I know about the Chapter 3 stuff, but in actual reality the last game in this long series just kind of ends out of nowhere. What a shame. Edit: Big Boss and Venom Snake magically come out of their comas at exactly the same time? What? paint dry fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Sep 14, 2015 07:59
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The story in MGSV is pretty poo poo but the presentation is the biggest issue by far. It doesn't work in episodes, it just makes things have no context.paint dry posted:Edit: Big Boss and Venom Snake magically come out of their comas at exactly the same time? What? VS was being kept in his coma medically to a degree. They tell Big Boss that "they'll have to wake him up". It was important that he didn't rouse before Big Boss.
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Sep 14, 2015 08:08
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paint dry posted:Finished this last night. I can't believe that the game just... ends? You send Huey off in a life raft, then it turns out Big Boss isn't really Big Boss, then... credits? They don't, one of the truth tapes has Ocelot brief Big Boss over the situation before the hospital attack, he's been up at least a few days which is why he's in better shape by then.
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Sep 14, 2015 08:12
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I swear there is another line that Skull Face steals verbatim from Big Boss, but for the life of me I can't remember it now. The two lines that Skull Face quotes from Big Boss' first encounter with Chico are: "Chico. Growing up means deciding how you're going to live your life." (Skull Face version) and "Nothing to be ashamed of. Pain gets the better of us all." (Skull Face version) The latter of which is said to the prisoner in the Destroy the AA guns mission of GZ. There is something so alarming about Skull Face being able to do this that I was really hyped for his return in TPP. I thought it might reflect his control of language or even cast him as some sort of anti-Big Boss (even going so far as to think that Skull Face would be the player surrogate, not Venom, as he guides Big Boss down the path of evil like the player does by playing the game). You know, anticipating the Red Ogre/Blue Ogre business that was speculated about over the last couple of years. Nothing like that appears in TPP so I guess we just chalk Skull Faces' omniscience up to general spookiness and assume that yeah, Big Boss was somehow being monitored in that scene. I guess it's not so far fetched to imagine Chico's makeshift cell to be bugged or Big Boss' radio to be monitored.
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Sep 14, 2015 08:13
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Listen, don't obsess over the words so much. Find the meaning behind the words, then decide.
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Sep 14, 2015 08:20
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Aurain posted:The story in MGSV is pretty poo poo but the presentation is the biggest issue by far. It doesn't work in episodes, it just makes things have no context. Oh yeah, I remember that now. Thanks.
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Sep 14, 2015 08:29
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The more and more I think about this game the more I realize how awful the story telling and character development were. My friend brought up a good point, the motivations for all of the characters is pretty much non-existant, or buried so far in audio logs its not conveyed well at all. God I just want another snake eater. This game was such a let down story wise.
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Sep 14, 2015 10:06
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Knifegrab posted:The more and more I think about this game the more I realize how awful the story telling and character development were. My friend brought up a good point, the motivations for all of the characters is pretty much non-existant, or buried so far in audio logs its not conveyed well at all. God I just want another snake eater. This game was such a let down story wise. The thing is that every Metal Gear game is like this. Snake Eater was the exception, not the rule. And even then like half the named characters had absolutely no story or explanation but they made for cool boss fights so eh? It does seem like the game kind of peters out in chapter 2. Mission 43 was amazing (the bit in the basement where you shoot all the troops one by one as they stand there saluting you really got to me) but other than that it's a lot of filler and stuff that doesn't really go anywhere. Quiet gets some resolution I guess but given that her single character trait up to that point was that she doesn't talk, she didn't really have a lot going on in the first place. I'm also not really sure what kind of narrative purpose the "big twist" serves other than to BE a twist - it doesn't really do anything to recontextualize the rest of the game in any way, the way a good twist ending does, it's just like "oh, huh, that's weird". The game as a game is probably the best of the entire series by far, but the story really ends about halfway through, when you finish chapter 1. The Grimace posted:Good question. I only recently found Paz in the medical wing after hearing about people meeting her there and seeing that there were videos on youtube named "all Paz TPP appearances" and such. Could just be a door that will never open, could be some cut content, could open under specific circumstances, who knows! The "mystery doors" on every platform are actually just the targets for the FOB invasion missions. They never open otherwise and I don't think they were intended to be something that ended up being cut. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Sep 14, 2015 11:32
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