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Also bear in mind that he wasn't exactly in a solid mental state when she attacked so it would kind of make sense that he wouldn't really remember the details very well.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:32
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The haircut thing did absolute wonders for Tatyana. Silly girl should have realised Ocelots are super good at smelling motorcycle fuel. If she had, she'd have been home free.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:33
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Outside of mission 51 being cut does this game have any other egregious loose ends or cut content? I find it hard to believe that a 100-hour game somehow has the latter-half of the story missing, seeing as by mission 46 Skull Face is dead, Quiet is gone and Huey has been exiled, there doesn't seem to be much else story to go on. It's very difficult to tell. Several game mechanic systems were not fully implemented and left in. It's possible/likely that additional story content was originally planned, but cut early enough that they didn't get partway through development like mission 51. The dense to empty story structure is usually a sign that content was cut after scheduling was re-evaluated during early period development once the devs realize that implementing missions and spaces takes longer than initially planned. This is especially visible in open world games, especially Ubisoft products that use a chapter or act structure- the first two sections contain a lot of instructional padding and more detail in content, then the rest of the story and missions are bare-bones because there's no time to build in the original playspace. MGSV just seems to be a more severe example of that phenomenon. Part of the problem is that Kojima almost always goes massively over budget and schedule, and most of the series have had similar cuts- the result is that plotwork via talking heads and important events occurring entirely offscreen is considered his writing style. The cuts just have a different footprint in this open-world development setting when compared with MGS2 and 4, which are the other egregious examples. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Sep 14, 2015 22:36
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I can't remember what was hastily cut from MGS2 outside of Arsenal Gear going 9/11 on New York before 9/11 was a thing.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:46
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Inspector Gesicht posted:I can't remember what was hastily cut from MGS2 outside of Arsenal Gear going 9/11 on New York before 9/11 was a thing. They had other stuff cut but 'cut' is a bit dishonest in that it was more they had ideas they didn't use. One was an ancient sniper whose idea was eventually recycled into The End for example. The game had a lot of codec-in-place-of-cutscenes but that was less cut content and more how they worked around budget limitations. Cut content doesn't just mean cut for budget. It can be cut because it didn't work, they didn't like the idea, it would have been difficult to implement and so-on. That's a basic part of game design and every game ever made has it.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:48
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All of the new missions after 31 are really simplistic and have no plot relevance at all, like they were thrown together in a hurry when they weren't able to finish up any more real missions because the third location was cut or whatever. Almost all of the ch. 1 missions have some kind of context or (easy to miss) dialog that tie them into the story.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:50
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Raiden's first character design got rolled into the Fear, also. He was originally going to a double-jointed weirdo that could crawl on walls and ate bugs but Kojima shot it down almost instantly lol. edit: Which isn't "cut" content or anything, but still pretty crazy. There were going to be two other members of Dead Cell originally (I think there are even silhouettes of them in one of the cutscenes, but I'd have to go back and watch them again). All of the games have a lot of stuff that got tossed out pretty far into the dev cycle, but the ending of 2 and the missing Shell 2 stuff were the only really glaring missing pieces. Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Sep 14, 2015 22:50
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ImpAtom posted:They had other stuff cut but 'cut' is a bit dishonest in that it was more they had ideas they didn't use. One was an ancient sniper whose idea was eventually recycled into The End for example. The game had a lot of codec-in-place-of-cutscenes but that was less cut content and more how they worked around budget limitations. Haha, no, they cut out a large part of an entire strut in 2.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:51
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MGS 2's cut content was more unused ideas than stuff that was supposed to be in the game but didn't make it. For example there were two more members of Dead Cell, Chinaman and Old Boy. The former was a CQC expert and had a tattoo that came to life when submerged in water and his fight was originally designed for the room you fight Vamp in and as for Old Boy, he's apparently some kind of old ex-Nazi general who was the mentor of Big Boss and responsible for corrupting his ideals. His concepts kind of ended up being reused for both The End and The Boss though. MGS 4's cut content was stuff like picking sides between the PMCs and rebels, different infiltration points, overall less linear and three cut characters, including an elderly Johnny from MGS 3, an ex-Soviet soldier named Adam and a guy in some kind of power armor called Snake-Man.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:53
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Terminally Bored posted:Haha, no, they cut out a large part of an entire strut in 2. Do you have an actual source of this? I've heard it mentioned but never anything beyond "they planned more content and eventually nixed it" as opposed to "it was cut from the final game." Edit: I don't mean for that to sound jerky, I've just honestly never seen a source for it beyond mentions of stuff like Chinaman and Old Boy who were both ideas they had but didn't do rather than cut unfinished content. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Sep 14, 2015 22:54
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Huey is really just a complete piece of poo poo, isn't he? Even in Peace Walker, a little bit, where he throws around justifications for plagiarising Granin when he was designing Peace Walker itself. It was actually an interesting choice to have him look and sound just like Otacon, making you inclined to trust him because Otacon was one of maybe two honest people in the entirety of the original Metal Gear Solid (Meryl being the other, I suppose). Huey just fucks things up constantly though, whereas Otacon tries, and mostly succeeds, to do good after meeting up with Solid Snake. Actually, does Otacon make any major mistakes at all after first meeting Snake? The only thing I can think of is the start of MGS2 where he trusts an anonymous tip because it's signed off with his sister's initials. That aside, it seems like every bad thing that happens to Otacon is because he's the world's chew-toy and apparently unconsciously kills any post-pubescent women who come within ten feet of him, like a goony FOXDIE. Huey, on the other hand, is the architect of every bad thing that happens to him.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:56
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Let's all stop and remember that in MGS3 The Boss was originally supposed to have One Boob Out at all times
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Sep 14, 2015 22:56
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ImpAtom posted:There is. They explain it in the scene she's tortured in. After she got injured they were doing medical treatment on her and found the same flowers from Boss's hospital room in her lungs. Funnily enough, I actually missed the cutscene where Quiet gets injured in the gas by not going back to Mother Base at the right time. I think making such things missable was a bad idea, the game has few enough cutscenes as it is and sometimes significant things happen at Mother Base but the showering mechanic didn't bring me back often enough.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:56
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ImpAtom posted:Do you have an actual source of this? I've heard it mentioned but never anything beyond "they planned more content and eventually nixed it" as opposed to "it was cut from the final game." Yeah, watch Chip Cheezum's LP. He even shows the locked (broken) doors that were to be used and shows of stuff from Document of Metal Gear Solid 2.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:57
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In It For The Tank posted:Funnily enough, I actually missed the cutscene where Quiet gets injured in the gas by not going back to Mother Base at the right time. I think making such things missable was a bad idea, the game has few enough cutscenes as it is and sometimes significant things happen at Mother Base but the showering mechanic didn't bring me back often enough. If that is missable then it's genuinely dumb. I thought it forced you back to base for that one but I guess not. Terminally Bored posted:Yeah, watch Chip Cheezum's LP. He even shows the locked (broken) doors that were to be used and shows of stuff from Document of Metal Gear Solid 2. That isn't actually the same thing as what we're talking about. That's from Document of MGS2 which is where most of the stuff we're talking about is from. It's mostly concepts they didn't use, not stuff cut from the game.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:57
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Dr Snofeld posted:Actually, does Otacon make any major mistakes at all after first meeting Snake? He let Naomi escape the Nomad, I guess.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:59
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I remember thinking at the time how cool it'd be if a re-release of MGS 2 had you play the Big Shell incident from Snake's point of view and you explore Shell 2 before it gets bombed, but I didn't really understand the significance of why you were playing as Raiden instead of Snake until I was older. With MGS V, I don't really care if I don't get to play as the real Big Boss. I just want a satisfying conclusion and not have the game end on something that feels it should be a plot twist that puts the third act into motion.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:01
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Speaking of MGS2, how come in the HD version you can randomly find "Metal Gear 2: Guns of Patriots" written on walls and such? Is that present in the original version or Substance?
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Sep 14, 2015 23:01
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Raxivace posted:Speaking of MGS2, how come in the HD version you can randomly find "Metal Gear 2: Guns of Patriots" written on walls and such? Is that present in the original version or Substance? No, they just replaced the really shoddy textures which would look like rear end in HD with it as an easter egg I guess.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:04
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ImpAtom posted:That isn't actually the same thing as what we're talking about. That's from Document of MGS2 which is where most of the stuff we're talking about is from. It's mostly concepts they didn't use, not stuff cut from the game. Yeah, some ideas were at concept stage but there are a few locked doors on the last strut that were supposed to lead to a new area. They had to cut it due to time constraints.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:06
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Dead Cell could have benefited from having more members and more vivid personalities. Solidus is such a non-entity he hardly gets mentioned outside of his one game except to appears as a BBQ-grilled pile of spare body-parts, Fortune mopes a lot and doesn't even give you a real boss fight, Fatman is from Brooklyn complete with annoying drawl, and Vamp is just an awful, awful character.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:06
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Vamp is just an awful, awful character. Yeah, and they made him even worse in 4.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:08
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And then made him better in Revengeance.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:11
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Dead Cell could have benefited from having more members and more vivid personalities. Solidus is such a non-entity he hardly gets mentioned outside of his one game except to appears as a BBQ-grilled pile of spare body-parts, Fortune mopes a lot and doesn't even give you a real boss fight, Fatman is from Brooklyn complete with annoying drawl, and Vamp is just an awful, awful character. Solidus is actually the best member of Dead Cell, to the point that they kind of threw in how he lead a platoon of child soldiers and was the one who killed Raiden's parents as a plot point because otherwise once the truth about the S3 program and The Patriots goal is revealed, you wouldn't feel like fighting him any more. Hell killing Solidus at the end is a pyrrhic victory because you basically have The Patriots win. Remember that MGS 2 was never meant to have any sequels originally, so by killing Solidus you more or less doomed the world to the selective memes used to control the populace that The Patriots wanted.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:11
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I'm kind of impressed how many call-forwards Kojima included to Metal Gear 1 and 2, games I doubt even 10% of the fanbase has ever played.Inspector Gesicht posted:Dead Cell could have benefited from having more members and more vivid personalities. Solidus is such a non-entity he hardly gets mentioned outside of his one game except to appears as a BBQ-grilled pile of spare body-parts, Fortune mopes a lot and doesn't even give you a real boss fight, Fatman is from Brooklyn complete with annoying drawl, and Vamp is just an awful, awful character. The two cut members of Dead Cell were unbelievably loving retarded, even for this series. Well, Old Boy was just a 100-year old Nazi who ran with a squad of SS-wannabes, nothing unusual there. But Chinaman was a mystic kung-fu Navy SEAL swimming champion and special effects expert. With a magic tattoo.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:12
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Vengarr posted:The two cut members of Dead Cell were unbelievably loving retarded, even for this series. I'm not sure about that. This is the series where NASA have a special forces team comprised entirely of ninjas meant to deal with extraterrestrials, as well as poisonous zanzibar hamsters after all.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:16
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In It For The Tank posted:Funnily enough, I actually missed the cutscene where Quiet gets injured in the gas by not going back to Mother Base at the right time. I think making such things missable was a bad idea, the game has few enough cutscenes as it is and sometimes significant things happen at Mother Base but the showering mechanic didn't bring me back often enough. when does this happen, so i dont miss it. im at mission 18.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:26
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No Mods No Masters posted:Let's all stop and remember that in MGS3 The Boss was originally supposed to have One Boob Out at all times What?
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Sep 14, 2015 23:26
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RZApublican posted:What? quote:According to Hideo Kojima, The Boss was created specifically to be a motherly character in order to emphasize the maternity theme that he was going for. This is further reflected in her original design, in which one of her breasts was exposed. The design also featured a snake tattoo around her chest. This was so that when she fired a gun, it would appear that the snake was laughing. It was based on a legend that says that if someone sees a laughing snake, it means that their life is about to be over. Ultimately, this design was scrapped. From this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIRDmYIae4Y
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Sep 14, 2015 23:30
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Aurain posted:You can't go without a hip weapon. The closes you can get is the rank 1 AK. It's controlled by TppEquip, which is divided up in the files into various unlabeled ones. 39dbefcf0492e.lua in the extracted data file lists TppEquip.ReloadEquipIdTable but I don't think that's it, nor is 213fd1c038491.lua though both seem to govern equipment. I've looked through every other file and there are some in TppDefines that define the existence of the Hip/Back/Secondary/Support/Item slots, but nothing I can find that governs the helicopter equip screen where you choose your loadout. There's a command to force an empty slot, TppEquip.EPQ_None, but I can't find the place that controls it (EquipMission?). Maybe somebody can help with this because I'm stumped. I'm betting that if we can find the menu that controls loadout selection we can just cut and paste "None" as an option from Back weapons to Hip/Secondary weapons, allowing the player to deselect them.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:34
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Vikar Jerome posted:when does this happen, so i dont miss it. im at mission 18. It happens in Chapter 2. Just make sure you visit Mother Base frequently, especially before the kids disappear because once that happens, I guess you've missed that scene. I don't know if it affects anything but I always had Quiet with me on missions and I focused on playing side ops rather than the extreme versions of old missions.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:44
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Gee, I wonder why the Japanese games company decided to cut the villain called Chinaman. Hmmmmm
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Sep 14, 2015 23:48
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In It For The Tank posted:Funnily enough, I actually missed the cutscene where Quiet gets injured in the gas by not going back to Mother Base at the right time. I think making such things missable was a bad idea, the game has few enough cutscenes as it is and sometimes significant things happen at Mother Base but the showering mechanic didn't bring me back often enough. In my case I got all of the scenes but they didn't really go in a logical order. She jumped into the chlorine and went into the medbay, but I dicked around long enough that she was discharged and I could use her again. I went back and got the scene where they embrace in the rain, and then suddenly she's in Ocelot's torture chamber getting electrocuted.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:57
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Why does Mother Base even have a chlorine pit?
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Sep 14, 2015 23:58
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I think Chinaman was supposed to be a "regretting your words and deeds" thing like Quiet. He was a Vietnamese kid who was sold to an American and was called that out of other people's ignorance. Just like Quiet, giving him a tragic back story doesn't excuse his offensive design/name.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:02
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CJacobs posted:From this video: The actual best thing about this video is how one sassy Japanese schoolgirl changed the course of gaming history by singlehandedly bringing Raiden into being
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Sep 15, 2015 00:03
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InfinityComplex posted:And then made him better in Revengeance.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:04
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Broseph Brostar posted:I think Chinaman was supposed to be a "regretting your words and deeds" thing like Quiet. He was a Vietnamese kid who was sold to an American and was called that out of other people's ignorance. Just like Quiet, giving him a tragic back story doesn't excuse his offensive design/name. That's really not the same thing at all, actually
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Sep 15, 2015 00:06
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CJacobs posted:That's really not the same thing at all, actually I meant they are similar in that they both have designs in bad taste for dumb reasons that are supposed to make you feel bad. I don't literally think that a lady in a stripper outfit is the same as a mystical Asian stereotype.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:11
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Broseph Brostar posted:I meant they are similar in that they both have designs in bad taste for dumb reasons that are supposed to make you feel bad. Quiet's design isn't offensive. There is absolutely nothing wrong with her being in a skimpy outfit by design. The way they justify having her be in a skimpy outfit is very silly, but who cares. They justified it. If they DIDN'T justify it and just had her running around in a bikini because they could as with Eva in MGS3 then I could understand it. What they did with it (having her dance around in the rain and shower a whole bunch et cetera) is the crappy part. Contrast with Chinaman, where the whole goal would have been to make you be offended because of his backstory. You are supposed to sympathize with Quiet because you are at least partly responsible for her being the way she is (regretting your words and deeds etc). Chinaman would have been an enemy, and making him offend your sensibilities would've been a way to do that. A bad way, yes, but it would have worked. The reason the hypothetical Chinaman character is different than Quiet is because of their intentions with the offending parts of the character.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:22
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