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lol enjoy your soon to be broken, soulless, miserable dog literally the only thing millan has right is that a well exercised dog is a happy one and that is the most common sense thing in the universe, along with not putting your hand in a fire
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Sep 14, 2015 23:43
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Paxs trainer is big on operant conditioning. It makes sense I guess because dogs don't understand language, so positive reinforcement is a good way for them to learn our rules. I like it because you can kind of make up your own rules for the dog to follow rather than doing the dominance stuff. She also does a bit of the nothing in life is free type training, which is why pax has to do stuff for his food now
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Sep 14, 2015 23:45
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Operant conditioning isn't exactly restricted to "positive"/reward-based/non-dominance training though. Operant conditioning happens anytime you teach a dog to do something, with any tools or techniques. did I mention I'm dead inside
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Sep 14, 2015 23:53
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Skizzles posted:Operant conditioning isn't exactly restricted to "positive"/reward-based/non-dominance training though. Operant conditioning happens anytime you teach a dog to do something, with any tools or techniques. His trainer mentioned that using strong negative reinforcement or punishments can usually backfire. I think it was with a lady who had a shock collar on her dog to keep him from barking, and the dog ended up associating the shock with the window where he would sit and bark rather than the barking itself, so the dog ended up too frightened to go into the living room or something EXTREME INSERTION fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 00:02
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I heard that in dominance training your dog can't sleep on the bed with you, which kind of sucks
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Sep 15, 2015 00:05
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Yep, harsh/physical punishments are usually unnecessary at best. A lot of it (like bark collars) is just aimed at fixing the owner's problem rather than the dog's. They don't always make the associations we think or learn/"know" what people think they do, like your window example. But using critical thinking and understanding how a dog's brain actually functions is haarrrd let me just alpha roll my troubles away~
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Sep 15, 2015 00:09
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lmao literally no human being on this gay earth with an actual behavior degree would teach dominance theory
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Sep 15, 2015 00:14
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It's real easy to teach something, just give em treats of praises when they do something you want them to learn or keep doing. What's harder is unteaching a bad habit or fear, like the window thing.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:15
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you say that but he doesnt believe in using rewards in training so
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Sep 15, 2015 00:17
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^ rewards/treats are fine but just to get the ball rolling and association going. I think I'm just bad at explaining things So are Military/Police dogs mentally numb slaves or
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Sep 15, 2015 00:19
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the military doesnt use dominance based training VV That's not a military dog, that's one of the defense of handler exercises from french ring (belgian ring? modio? i can never keep the fuckin ring sports straight) Triangulum fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 00:19
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This dog doesn't look miserable to me. Looks like its having a lot of fun.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:20
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my dog can sleep on my bed wtf
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Sep 15, 2015 00:20
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Nostalgia4Dicks posted:my dog can sleep on my bed wtf With two fairly big dogs the younger one has to sleep in his own bed. Sucks, but I don't want to wake up with a paw in my mouth. He can climb in in the morning to wake me up though.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:22
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you can tell it's not a military dog just by the fact that the dog's doing a competition attention heel. turns out having a dog stare at it's handlers face isnt super practical for patrol dogs, who knew
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Sep 15, 2015 00:23
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Triangulum posted:you can tell it's not a military dog just by the fact that the dog's doing a competition attention heel. turns out having a dog stare at it's handlers face isnt super practical for patrol dogs, who knew okay, no idea about that stuff but it sure is a funny gif
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Sep 15, 2015 00:24
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Nostalgia4Dicks posted:^ rewards/treats are fine but just to get the ball rolling and association going. I think I'm just bad at explaining things military/police dogs also fukken love what they do and their handlers
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Sep 15, 2015 00:25
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Nostalgia4Dicks posted:^ rewards/treats are fine but just to get the ball rolling and association going. I think I'm just bad at explaining things naw you are probably just bad at dogs.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:25
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Some people think allowing a dog to sleep on the bed with you isn't Allowed because then it will think it is DOMINANT because it's UP ON THE BED where THE ALPHAS sleep. And there are some who are less stupid and don't give a poo poo if your dog sleeps on the bed. Tell us what your trainer told you to do and we'll tell you if that's what police/military do (they probably don't)
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Sep 15, 2015 00:27
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I saw this documentary about working dogs and there was this drug sniffer dog. His handler just walked him around the car lines and played with him every time he found drugs. It was all v. chill
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Sep 15, 2015 00:28
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every day i pray to the gods for death to embrace me
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Sep 15, 2015 00:29
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Maybe he's some weird hybrid or something or I think I explained things wrong most of it is in line with what you guys are saying and yeah sleeping on the bed is fine did ask about that he always has anyways and my mattress is on the floor like a poor bachelor so good luck getting him to stop lol
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Sep 15, 2015 00:29
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Skizzles posted:Some people think allowing a dog to sleep on the bed with you isn't Allowed because then it will think it is DOMINANT because it's UP ON THE BED where THE ALPHAS sleep. lmao my idiot greyhound sleeps with his head up on the pillows next to mine and sometimes punches me when he wants pats and i'm trying to sleep should i get some millan dvds so i can learn all about the magic of this calm and submissive state of mind y/n
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Sep 15, 2015 00:31
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Superconsndar posted:every day i pray to the gods for death to embrace me which ones, i feel like I might be missing a few in my list.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:31
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Dyna Soar posted:okay, no idea about that stuff but it sure is a funny gif it is, and that dog has some nice training under his belt. thats besides the point though. the MWD program doesn't use dominance training (because its bullshit) and are steadily heading into a more and more reward based training program. police dog training is kind of a clusterfuck crapshoot who's quality heavily depends on what force youre talking about
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Sep 15, 2015 00:32
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i train my dogs with sick elbow drops to the neck, just like in the wild.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:33
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Nostalgia4Dicks posted:Maybe he's some weird hybrid or something or I think I explained things wrong most of it is in line with what you guys are saying and yeah sleeping on the bed is fine did ask about that he always has anyways and my mattress is on the floor like a poor bachelor so good luck getting him to stop lol anyone who unironically uses the words 'calm submissive' and tells you to be the ~leader of the pack~ is an idiot who's legit clueless about dog behavior, social structure, and learning theory
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Sep 15, 2015 00:34
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really just need to get in on this whole 'dominance training is bullshit, your trainer is an idiot, you are an idiot' train while it's rolling.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:38
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I could talk some about military dog poo poo if you guys want me to but I usually don't. One of my okinawa friends was an MP and had a canine partner and we talked about dog things a lot. And I can always ask her poo poo, whatever. I may not be a fantastic trainer or whatever and maybe my dogs don't heel like that gif, but I just kept two (wonderful, very good girls, oh my goodness) very early-on beginning herding dogs from destroying four ducks, actively had them working together, had them move the ducks to me so I could grab and weigh them, and did it all with nothing but my voice and a stick, called them off the ducks, walked out of the pen with them, and they quite happily trotted with me right up to the house because they did their jobs and they were Very Good Dogs. All the ducks lost was one feather. The highest value treat they get are either rabbit treats or gummi bears. They got gummi bears for that poo poo.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:46
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Ginny posted:So I'm hoping for some suggestion from more experienced trainers here. Hi Borzoi buddy!  Meet Dante. He's now six months old, so he's just a little older than your guy. Here he is when I brought him home at 13 weeks.   This is him today. Now that he's six months old, I'm planning on him being in his first real show next month.  It sounds like Mikhail has a lot of energy he needs to work off. Not surprising, he's a puppy after all. Borzoi make great couch potatoes, as long as they get a chance to RUN everyday. You need find a large, FENCED area in which he can race around. There's a Greyhound Thread in this forum, most of the information in there will apply to Borzois as well. Borzois, like all sighthounds, can't be trusted to be reliable off leash -- one deer later, and your dog is halfway to the next county.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:57
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(we got him at 1 month). Please meet the beautiful Mikhail:
it's a bit frustrating... I've never seen an animal pee as much as him!
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Superconsndar posted:lmao literally no human being on this gay earth with an actual behavior degree would teach dominance theory this. loving ask me how i know
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Sep 15, 2015 01:13
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ButWhatIf posted:this. loving ask me how i know How do you know
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Sep 15, 2015 01:16
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she actually has a behavior degree lmao
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Sep 15, 2015 01:47
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and she's helped run a conference for the past 3 years filled with several speakers with other (legit) behavior degrees as in PhDs and poo poo not "I got a cert through IACP  "
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Sep 15, 2015 01:52
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Skizzles posted:and she's helped run a conference for the past 3 years filled with several speakers with other (legit) behavior degrees well wait a minute you are telling me that I should trust an ACADEMIC??? *farts into own mouth*
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Sep 15, 2015 02:04
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Skizzles posted:and she's helped run a conference for the past 3 years filled with several speakers with other (legit) behavior degrees She told me to ask her!
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Sep 15, 2015 02:06
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Cerebral Mayhem posted:Hi Borzoi buddy! Why the long face 
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Sep 15, 2015 02:06
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EXTREME INSERTION posted:She told me to ask her! SHE'S NOT HERE, SO WE'LL ANSWER FOR HER. HOW'D WE DO, BUTWHATIF?
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Sep 15, 2015 02:13
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i train my dogs using a variety of methods (even ones that utilize punishment!!!) none of which involve treating them like they are grey wolves in the wilderness (lol dominance theory isn't even accurate for actual wolves; the entire concept was based upon studies of captive wolves in the 70's and since then virtually everyone involved has been like "yeah uh about that, that's not really how wild wolves act" ) i've managed (collectively) five murderous pit bulls around livestock, pets, and other dogs without shutting them down or breaking their brains, have trained two successful LGDs, and am working on my third u dont gotta dominance theory at ur dog, dogs are not wolves and the domestic dog really didn't evolve as a pack animal and the methods only work because they scare the gently caress out of the animal and makes them go "okay jeez im sorry i'll just sit here in the corner and vibrate so i dont gently caress up jfc" in soft, low drive dogs this usually doesn't gently caress them up because they don't really do anything anyway and all you're doing applying "dominance theory" style training to a dog like this is pretty much using a really strict form of NILIF (which doesn't hurt anything) combined with a lot of exercise to wear them the gently caress out, which, fine, you're still projecting really hillariously misguided concepts at your dog but it doesn't know that it becomes problematic with driven dogs who don't thrive by having their drives alpha rolled into supression; most people treat driven dogs as though they have "behavior issues" when irl they lack outlets and context for their innate drives and all dominance theory does to those dogs is confuse them, shut them down, and then one day they maybe snap and tear somebodies face off (with no warning because they were specifically punished for displaying warning signs.) Or not, sometimes they just stay confused and shut down forever until they die and that is a good outcome because they didn't kill a granny i guess a dog is not a wolf and dominance theory doesn't apply even to wolves; it's extremely outdated, bad science; it's scientifically equivalent to diagnosing a woman with hysteria and prescribing a lobotomy as treatment (no, dominance theory does not lobotomize your dogs, i just mean that the science is as outdated and bad and all modern behavioral scientists are very embarrassed that it ever existed)
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Sep 15, 2015 02:23
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Skizzles posted:SHE'S NOT HERE, SO WE'LL ANSWER FOR HER. You did great
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Sep 15, 2015 02:24
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