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Bazanga
Oct 10, 2006
chinchilla farmer

Ilor posted:

DM: "The Ogre raises his club high overhead, looks at you with his beady eyes, and begins his haymaker swing. You know if it connects, it's gonna hit like a ton of bricks. What do you do?"
PC: "I blast him in the face with my Firebolt spell."
DM: "OK, but the timing will be tight. Go ahead and Defy Danger with INT to see if you can get the spell off in time."
PC: <rolls> Crap, I only got an 8.
DM: "Well, the spell goes off, but just as you release the energy, the club makes contact. <both PC and NPC roll damage>
Alright, it's starting to make more sense. In my groups example, he named a specific spell he was casting in response to the club swing. If he got the cast off with an 8, would that trigger the partial success options he has for spell casts?

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Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010

Ilor posted:

"Down pat" is kind of a misnomer for DW. I think the thing to do is to allow players to follow through on their own successes. So instead of a 10+ on Defy Danger being a "you don't get hit," maybe make it a "you don't get hit AND..." then ask the player what it was they were trying to accomplish.

Part of this is up to your players too. Instead of simply reacting to the NPCs, ask them what they're trying to do. Distill their answer down into an appropriate move and snowball from there.

So in your Ogre swinging a club example, maybe it goes like this:

DM: "The Ogre raises his club high overhead, looks at you with his beady eyes, and begins his haymaker swing. You know if it connects, it's gonna hit like a ton of bricks. What do you do?"
PC: "I blast him in the face with my Firebolt spell."
DM: "OK, but the timing will be tight. Go ahead and Defy Danger with INT to see if you can get the spell off in time."
PC: <rolls> Crap, I only got an 8.
DM: "Well, the spell goes off, but just as you release the energy, the club makes contact. <both PC and NPC roll damage>

or

PC: <rolls> "Huzzah, an 11!"
DM: "A paragon of concentration under fire, you manage to recite the incantation faster than you've ever done it before. You blast the Ogre in the face, forcing him to reel backwards. <PC rolls damage>

or

PC: <rolls> "Oh poo poo. A 5."
DM: "Yeah, your concentration is totally rattled by the Ogre. You flub a part of the incantation and it's all over." <NPC rolls damage>

And so on.

The thing is that this is already modeled by the hack and slash move. Acting regardless of danger should, RAW, have a PC eat a hard move as set up in fiction, then do what they wanted to do.

Ilor
Feb 2, 2008

That's a crit.
Actually, the success on the Defy Danger just grants the opportunity to roll for the spell. So essentially, it's two rolls, one to get off the spell in time, the other to cast it successfully.

The essential part is that it follow the fiction. Casting spells when someone is swinging a massive club at your head is dangerous! But the important part of Defy Danger is that you can use any stat so long as you justify it in the fiction. So in the example I gave, the spellcaster is trying to use his focus and concentration to avoid the instinct to flinch. Conversely, a character with a high Dex might dodge before striking.

And you can just as easily have the Defy Danger roll stand in for the attack (Hack & Slash) roll if the character's follow-up move is some kind of attack ("I roll between the Ogre's legs as he swings his club, hamstringing him with my dagger as I pass through"). I think either way is fine, though using the Defy Danger as the stand in roll will result in the PCs usually inflicting more damage in a fight because they'll typically be using their better stats.

The elegance of the PbtA systems is the flexibility the GM has in interpreting the die rolls and setting up further rolls based on the evolving fiction.

Ilor
Feb 2, 2008

That's a crit.

Impermanent posted:

The thing is that this is already modeled by the hack and slash move. Acting regardless of danger should, RAW, have a PC eat a hard move as set up in fiction, then do what they wanted to do.
But the point is that the PC in question wasn't trying to Hack & Slash, but rather was trying to cast a spell. Different move, requiring a different circumstance.

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

Ilor posted:

But the point is that the PC in question wasn't trying to Hack & Slash, but rather was trying to cast a spell. Different move, requiring a different circumstance.

In fairness you have this backwards. Fiction is always first, if their action triggers a move it's that move.

Though this does illustrate the weakness of HS.

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006


Ilor posted:

Actually, the success on the Defy Danger just grants the opportunity to roll for the spell. So essentially, it's two rolls, one to get off the spell in time, the other to cast it successfully.

The essential part is that it follow the fiction. Casting spells when someone is swinging a massive club at your head is dangerous! But the important part of Defy Danger is that you can use any stat so long as you justify it in the fiction. So in the example I gave, the spellcaster is trying to use his focus and concentration to avoid the instinct to flinch. Conversely, a character with a high Dex might dodge before striking.

And you can just as easily have the Defy Danger roll stand in for the attack (Hack & Slash) roll if the character's follow-up move is some kind of attack ("I roll between the Ogre's legs as he swings his club, hamstringing him with my dagger as I pass through"). I think either way is fine, though using the Defy Danger as the stand in roll will result in the PCs usually inflicting more damage in a fight because they'll typically be using their better stats.

The elegance of the PbtA systems is the flexibility the GM has in interpreting the die rolls and setting up further rolls based on the evolving fiction.

There's a judgement call involved - it doesn't help the flow of play any to insist on a lot of extra Defy Danger rolls, so in this case, if the PC's spell really would knock the Ogre back, I'd just let them roll Cast A Spell. That's the reward you get for having prepared Foreman's Resolute Fist or whatever. I wouldn't let most spells do that, though - you can Magic Missile or Fireball an Ogre and guess what? You get clubbed by a bleeding or blazing Ogre, roll damage. If the spell wouldn't stop the Ogre from delivering a good clubbing, then it's either Defy Danger first, or the PC plays Irish Stand-To with an Ogre.

Ilor
Feb 2, 2008

That's a crit.

Error 404 posted:

In fairness you have this backwards. Fiction is always first, if their action triggers a move it's that move.

Though this does illustrate the weakness of HS.
OK, but H&S is explicitly based on your STR. The Mage isn't trying to stand toe-to-toe with the Ogre, he's trying to get in a pre-emptive strike (to keep from getting pummeled). I'd have a hard time looking at what the mage is attempting fictionally and in any way decide that H&S was what triggered. Is that more clear?

Hugoon Chavez
Nov 4, 2011

THUNDERDOME LOSER
Its worth repeating that it's all in the fiction. Is the wizard enough of a badass to cast before the ogre hits him? Then just roll Cast a Spell. Is the ogre a formidable foe for him, or the situation too hairy? Defy danger first, then Cast a spell!

There's not a hard rule of when to use a move or another, if it makes sense then it's fine. Asking someone to defy danger always means "what you're doing is a bit over your head, so there's a chance for something bad to happen". You won't ask a warrior to Defy Danger if he wants to attack The Black Knight, he just rolls H&S. But maybe if the wizard tries attacking the same Knight, he needs to Defy Danger first simply because the Knight is such a superior opponent on close combat that our Wizard needs a bit of luck *just* to get in a position where he can attack him.

theroachman
Sep 1, 2006

You're never fully dressed without a smile...

Error 404 posted:

In fairness you have this backwards. Fiction is always first, if their action triggers a move it's that move.

Though this does illustrate the weakness of HS.

Yeah exactly, fiction first, so no H&S.

In the fiction, Casty McCasterson the wizard was trying to cast a spell in melee range of an ogre that's already lifting his club overhead.

Therefore in the mechanical resolution, the Wizard triggers a Defy Danger move with WIS to get his mind together to cast the spell fast enough. Failure: get rekt. Partial: trigger Cast a Spell but get rekt/something else goes wrong. Success: trigger Cast a Spell and don't get rekt.

Then you apply both the DD result and the CaS result (if any) to the fiction. Casty McCasterson either takes a club to the face or he doesn't, and he either blasts the Ogres face off or he doesn't. Season to taste.

theroachman fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Sep 15, 2015

Bazanga
Oct 10, 2006
chinchilla farmer
Interesting. Sounds like I need to be asking more questions about the narrative and encourage the players to be more descriptive in their moves. I think we are all still stuck in the D&D turn-based mindset. Everyone was really digging the "players help make the world aspect", too. We had a player running late so we spent the first hour or so naming everything in the kingdom and coming up with it's economy, cities, and regional conflicts. It was a ton of fun and the players seem to become way more invested in the world than they would have been if I would have just drawn out a map and started listing off names.

I really enjoy the game so far. It definitely feels like the rules-lite game we have been looking for.

T-Bone
Sep 14, 2004

jakes did this?
I know it's a massive undertaking but was anyone planning on starting a DW PBP any time reasonably soon? I'd like to GM something eventually but it would be cool to get the feel and flow of the game from a good GM :o:

Bazanga
Oct 10, 2006
chinchilla farmer
This isn't a PBP but there are some really cool streams of people playing Dungeon World that helped me out when I was prepping to do some GM for Dungeon World. Adam Koebel (co-writer of DW) GM'd an entire set of sessions with the Missliks on youtube which are pretty good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyIhZONUStY

Another pretty decent one is the RollPlay guys, even though the first session is sorta just players introducing themselves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooa-apRt2wk

Bazanga fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Sep 16, 2015

T-Bone
Sep 14, 2004

jakes did this?
Thanks! I'll check those out :)




(and still play in a DW PBP should anyone start one, I'll keep my eyes peeled).

thefakenews
Oct 20, 2012

Bazanga posted:

I DMed a game this weekend for the first time with a group of people who were all new to DW. It went pretty well and overall everyone enjoyed it a lot more than other systems we had played. However, I'm definitely running into some issues DMing this game. I read the DW book cover to cover and the Dungeon Master guide that is in the OP, but I still can't grasp combat. Here are some of the issues I'm having trouble with:

- The DM guide says that the general flow of combat is that the NPCs do something, the players respond, and the roll determines the narrative outcomes. Ok, easy enough. This is how I DMed it. However, the players said that they felt that they were always responding and on their heels and never had a chance to plan or intimate anything. Looking back, combat was mainly "Ok, the Orc runs over to you and tries to grab your shield away from you, what do you do?" and then any response they did ended up almost always being a Hack and Slash or a Defy Danger. Our casters really didn't like this because they had low DEX and getting into melee-heavy combat was a chore because of how often they failed DEX-based Defy Danger.

One thing that might assist here is to alter, slightly, the moves the monsters are making. Instead of telling the players that the orc runs over and tries to grab their shield, tell them the orc is charging at them and reaching out as if they are going for the shield - then ask them what they do. There is a very small difference it timing here. In the first example the PC is reacting to the orc trying to grab their shield and in the second they are reacting to the orc when it is moving towards them. That small difference in timing means they have more scope to choose an action.

If your narration is that a specific act is about to happen, then if the PC does nothing to prevent that action, it should occur. If the action you narrate is the shield grab, then the PC is reacting to that. If the action you narrate is the orc moving over to the PC, then the result of the PC failing to take preventative action is that the orc is standing next to them - you would then narrate that the orc tries to grab their shield and they would have a further opportunity to act to prevent the shield grab. Effectively the action takes two "turns" instead of one.

I don't think it is always the right call to split up npc action like that, but I tend to err on giving the player more chances to act. For instance, if they are aware of enemy archers, I will usually first tell the PCs that they see the archers preparing to fire, giving the PCs a chance to act, and then if they don't do anything about it I tell them that the archers have fired at them, which gives them a chance to try and get out of the way of the shot. This does, perhaps, make things a little easier since I'm making more soft moves but I find it give the PCs more scope to act rather than react.

Bazanga posted:

- Speaking of that, we had a situation where an Ogre was swinging a club at player. That was the setup. The player being targeted wanted to blast them in the face with one of his spells to try to get him to reel back. How would you handle the rolls for this? It wasn't a Hack and Slash because it wasn't melee combat. There was danger present, the danger of a club flying at the player's face. Is this just a Defy Danger move? As in, he rolls Defy Danger and if he succeeds then he gets his spell off? Would he even need to roll to cast a spell at that point?

In that case I would ask the player if they are attempting to avoid getting hit - or just casting the spell. If they want to avoid the hit, they have to tell me how and they will probably have to Defy Danger. If they just want to cast the spell, then I have them roll Cast a Spell - if they suceed the spell goes off and, assuming the spell doesn't prevent it, they then take the monsters damage since they didn't prevent the attack.

slydingdoor
Oct 26, 2010

Are you in or are you out?

Bazanga posted:

I DMed a game this weekend for the first time with a group of people who were all new to DW. It went pretty well and overall everyone enjoyed it a lot more than other systems we had played. However, I'm definitely running into some issues DMing this game. I read the DW book cover to cover and the Dungeon Master guide that is in the OP, but I still can't grasp combat. Here are some of the issues I'm having trouble with: [...] I definitely like the game, but I feel like the way I ran combat was too loose. People couldn't figure out the rules because they felt really inconsistent and arbitrary. And even when I was DMing it I felt like a lot of the decisions I was making were pretty arbitrary and the players were showing their frustration because of it. It was hard to get a grasp on the structure of combat besides "do poo poo that sounds fun and then the DM will just sorta decide what rules apply and tell you what to roll."

My group loves combat-heavy dungeon delves so I want to make sure I'm getting combat down pat before the next session.
It's your job as DM to set stakes, be honest, make sure the fiction is crystal clear, and to keep consistent. You do this by making moves that follow from the fiction. From what you've said, it sounds like you rushed things a bit. Example:

quote:

- The DM guide says that the general flow of combat is that the NPCs do something, the players respond, and the roll determines the narrative outcomes. Ok, easy enough. This is how I DMed it. However, the players said that they felt that they were always responding and on their heels and never had a chance to plan or intimate anything. Looking back, combat was mainly "Ok, the Orc runs over to you and tries to grab your shield away from you, what do you do?" and then any response they did ended up almost always being a Hack and Slash or a Defy Danger. Our casters really didn't like this because they had low DEX and getting into melee-heavy combat was a chore because of how often they failed DEX-based Defy Danger.
If the players feel like they didn't have time to react to poo poo, and that that wasn't fair that they were always getting jumped, your moves weren't following. They felt like the orcs were getting in melee for free because you skipped a 'soft' move or two. Reveal an unwelcome truth. Show signs of an approaching threat--it's too dark down here, and that underground river is so noisy you can't hear your own footsteps, but you can smell eau d'orc. Offer an opportunity, with or w/o cost, or that fits a class's abilities. The druid hears glow worms on the ceiling cowering in the darkness. Elf Ranger in the back can see in the dark a little better than most, can't you? But being up front carries its own risks. Maybe reference one of her bonds. Or Human Rogue, a professional criminal, gets the sense that the party's exposed, that this area is dangerous. What do you do? Then, when they give you the golden opportunity or gently caress up a bunch of rolls, the party's still flatfooted when they see the orcs charge. They'll almost feel they deserve it.

quote:

- Speaking of that, we had a situation where an Ogre was swinging a club at player. That was the setup. The player being targeted wanted to blast them in the face with one of his spells to try to get him to reel back. How would you handle the rolls for this? It wasn't a Hack and Slash because it wasn't melee combat. There was danger present, the danger of a club flying at the player's face. Is this just a Defy Danger move? As in, he rolls Defy Danger and if he succeeds then he gets his spell off? Would he even need to roll to cast a spell at that point?
If someone wants to make the ogre reel, you decide whether they can cast a spell before they get hit. If they just can't, you tell em. "He's in mid swing, you haven't even started casting yet. If you just Cast a Spell without reacting to this club it's gonna be the exclamation point at the end of your incantation, that okay with you?" That's revealing an unwelcome truth by the way.

If they might be able to cast that fast, but they'd need to motormouth it, tell them that and nudge them towards DD Dex to "act fast," then they can roll Cast a Spell safely if they stick it. If they don't gently caress up the spell, and their plan is power through ogre's attack, then call for DD Strength. You could skip the DD Dex roll or the DD Strength roll if you decide the ogre isn't that dangerous, trust your sense of the pacing. In your particular game where everyone's getting tired of so much DD, I'd skip the DD Dex. If on the other hand they'd hosed up to let the ogre get that close in the first place and it felt fair and the pacing was on time, maybe I'd make them roll both. YMMV.

You can't not trigger the cast a spell move in this exchange, because to do it, do it.

quote:

- We had another situation where an Immolator wanted to heat up his hands and put them onto a vine that was tangled around his leg because he had an ability that let him use his hands to craft metal. It made sense in the narrative, but I also explained that crafting metal probably had some setup time and assumed he had casted a spell initially to start his hands on fire, so it was going to count as a spellcast and it triggered a move. It didn't just automatically succeed. The way I handled it was treating it as a spell cast to summon fire, but he had a vine around his leg flailing around so I had him defy danger first to see if he could power through it to cast the spell. After he passed the defy danger check, he failed the spell cast and he took damage from grabbing the spiky vine. He wasn't happy, and asked if every time someone casts something they have to do a defy danger check if they are in melee range and complained that it felt like everything the players did in combat on their own accord (not in direct response to an enemy) ended up being prefaced with a defy danger check. I didn't know. How should I have handled this type of situation? I'm pretty sure I'm using Defy Danger wrong, but I don't know how.
DD isn't a "check." It's a move, and Immolators don't Cast Spells. They can summon a Burning Brand and stuff, but that's not what it sounds like this guy was trying to do. Sounds like the guy thought "I can melt steel and forge it into a blade with my bare hands because of Hand Crafted, a spiky vine ain't poo poo to me." If he's right, and the vine isn't stronger than steel, it doesn't seem fair that he could ever take damage from grabbing it with his hands. Doing so would be putting DD moves before the fiction, which is backwards, you want to always lead with the fiction, put fiction first. The spikes are not a danger to his hands in this fiction unless you Reveal an Unwelcome Truth: the vines have ironwood spikes that a dryad who hated immolators might use to give one a painful surprise, you pissed off any dryads lately?

It sounds like you decided he needed to arm wrestle the vine off his leg with DD Strength, which makes sense because the spiky vine is a danger to his leg, but then he needed to use Burning Brand for some reason, which doesn't make sense because Immolators don't need a Burning Brand to benefit from Hand Crafted. It sounds like you two didn't agree with what was dangerous about grabbing a spiky vine. You just gotta remember to snowball moves together, have them pick up more danger from other moves, from more fiction. If the snowball suddenly grows a bunch of sizes without that causal link, or in spite of the player's expectations based on the moves and results they've seen, they'll feel ripped off.

quote:

- In general, once player succeeds, what then? Does the DM get a chance to respond? The book says the DM gets to perform a move on a failed move, when the players look to the DM, or when a "golden opportunity" presents itself. Ok. Got it. But what about on a 10+ success? Do the players just keep making moves until they fail? How do I keep flow of battle going with this? It felt like whenever the players succeeded, we assigned damage and then everything just sorta stopped. I think this might be people being used to initiative and "turns" from 4e/5e.
It sounds like what you really need to do is give more opportunities that don't instantly pigeonhole a PC into having to dodge something with DD Dex, which was a big problem with me when I was starting out and with other DMs I played with when they were. So don't sweat it. Just start thinking of combats, which the group likes, having short term stuff (Club at your face, orc's got your shield), medium term (unsprung trap nearby, red barrel with TNT in some language only one dude can read, goblin with a bomb in one hand and a torch in the other running at the wall that it sounds like water's rushing behind), and long term stuff (if you retreat backwards or push forwards a way the tunnel splits into two narrower ones that could reduce your exposure if you split up... unless you get flanked somehow of course, since you only came from one and haven't yet explored the other). That and mix some opportunities in with your dangers. Make the orcs raise alarm and charge the party... right past the scout who thought they were the one who got caught but it turns out they didn't actually notice. That's part of being a fan of the characters and wanting them to succeed despite the odds. If you seem completely adversarial, DW, moreso even than other D&D games, will seem like a loving slog to the players because the DM can basically make moves at will.

You'll get there. I'm not perfect either. Just keep communicating and making varied moves and follow every bit of the GM chapters. Good luck.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

More advice needed for my in-person game that I'm starting this weekend!

My girlfriend has been playing the last couple of campaigns I've run. This time, though, she doesn't feel comfortable taking a really active role (due mostly to recent medical problems leading to a lot of fatigue), but still wants to hang out and at least be part of the story. Are there any good playbooks for someone who wants to essentially play the quirky animal sidekick? In her words, she wants to be Momo from Avatar: The Last Airbender: mostly hang around to be comic relief and occasionally comment on things via gestures, and occasionally be helpful. In reality, she'll likely spend most of the time sitting there with us, listening to what's going on, and knitting, then speaking up a few times per session.

She doesn't care if she has a playbook at all, but I thought if there was a good one, it couldn't hurt.

ImpactVector
Feb 24, 2007

HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?

Nap Ghost
Might not be exactly what you're looking for, but have you checked out the Guest Star (phone posting, but linked in the OP I think)? It's more for a series of throwaway henchman types, but it could give her a similar supporting role.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Harrow posted:

More advice needed for my in-person game that I'm starting this weekend!

My girlfriend has been playing the last couple of campaigns I've run. This time, though, she doesn't feel comfortable taking a really active role (due mostly to recent medical problems leading to a lot of fatigue), but still wants to hang out and at least be part of the story. Are there any good playbooks for someone who wants to essentially play the quirky animal sidekick? In her words, she wants to be Momo from Avatar: The Last Airbender: mostly hang around to be comic relief and occasionally comment on things via gestures, and occasionally be helpful. In reality, she'll likely spend most of the time sitting there with us, listening to what's going on, and knitting, then speaking up a few times per session.

She doesn't care if she has a playbook at all, but I thought if there was a good one, it couldn't hurt.

Make her a hireling, let her roll +loyalty if it comes up.

Infinite Oregano
Dec 31, 2007

I'm going to make my friends eat infinite oregano and they'll have to do it because the recipe says so!

Harrow posted:

More advice needed for my in-person game that I'm starting this weekend!

My girlfriend has been playing the last couple of campaigns I've run. This time, though, she doesn't feel comfortable taking a really active role (due mostly to recent medical problems leading to a lot of fatigue), but still wants to hang out and at least be part of the story. Are there any good playbooks for someone who wants to essentially play the quirky animal sidekick? In her words, she wants to be Momo from Avatar: The Last Airbender: mostly hang around to be comic relief and occasionally comment on things via gestures, and occasionally be helpful. In reality, she'll likely spend most of the time sitting there with us, listening to what's going on, and knitting, then speaking up a few times per session.

She doesn't care if she has a playbook at all, but I thought if there was a good one, it couldn't hurt.

You could always try gnome7's Cultist, it tends to do stuff indirectly and rely on disposable minions to accomplish things.

Infinite Oregano fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Sep 22, 2015

Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010

Ilor posted:

OK, but H&S is explicitly based on your STR. The Mage isn't trying to stand toe-to-toe with the Ogre, he's trying to get in a pre-emptive strike (to keep from getting pummeled). I'd have a hard time looking at what the mage is attempting fictionally and in any way decide that H&S was what triggered. Is that more clear?

I think that this might depend on what principle you're following. If you're showing players the drawbacks of their abilities, I think that calling for H&S to let the wizard get a spell off quickly is actually a very good move.

This dovetails into one of my issues with DW, which is that the Defy Danger move can be used, by a wary enough player, to soften most blows the DM can throw at them. If the Mage is Defying Danger and attacking stuff all of the time, then isn't that character eating in to the Paladin or the Warrior's core thing? Why should the Fighter have to eat through the relatively tough options listed in Hack and Slash while the Mage Defies Danger and then Magic Missiles all the time?

This is all dependent on the fiction. I just want to illustrate that, unless the DM makes a concerted effort to remain tough enough on players, any character that Defies Danger and then follows up with another move with regularity is going to wind up doing better than a character that has to Hack and Slash to fight things.

Ilor
Feb 2, 2008

That's a crit.
What do you mean by "doing better?" Rolling more =/= doing better. Usually, it's doing worse because there's more opportunity for GM fuckery.

The reason the Wizard isn't cutting in on the Paladin's turf here is because the Paladin can straight up do damage. The DD test is to see if the Wizard can even get his spell off, let alone see what effect it has. And given the fictional set-up, it's very much a "succeed at this roll in some fashion or eat damage, suckah!" sort of thing. If the Wizard flinches or freezes or hesitates, he's gonna get pasted before he can do anything to the Ogre. By opting to H&S, the Paladin is at least going to get to inflict some damage.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Glazius posted:

Make her a hireling, let her roll +loyalty if it comes up.

I actually considered that, and I think it might work out fairly well. I'll see what she thinks of the idea!

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
How about a hireling that builds hold by causing trouble (say, by satisfying an appetite), and spends it to aid characters? "Momo grabbed the shiny thing, give her a point of hold and make a move against the party. Momo spent a hold to pull the bad guy's cape over his eyes." I think that might work well with a player who only wants to interject occasionally.

Edit: Could work without her having dice, if that matters.

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

PerniciousKnid posted:

How about a hireling that builds hold by causing trouble (say, by satisfying an appetite), and spends it to aid characters? "Momo grabbed the shiny thing, give her a point of hold and make a move against the party. Momo spent a hold to pull the bad guy's cape over his eyes." I think that might work well with a player who only wants to interject occasionally.

Edit: Could work without her having dice, if that matters.

I really like this one.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Yes, that is beautiful. I'm all about that. That fits perfectly with how she likes to play even when she has a normal, "full" character to work with.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
On the other hand, if you want dice, this is kind of how hirelings worked in their expanded form in Pirate World. Hirelings are basically monsters, with Loyalty and Cost added to them. Ordering a HIreling means rolling +loyalty. On a hit you get a monster move. On a 7-9 the GM holds 1 and can spend it to activate Instinct. If you want to go outside the scope of the monster moves, roll +loyalty and on a 7-9 lose 1 loyalty, satisfy the instinct, or otherwise endanger the party. (Also lose 1 loyalty if ordered against the instinct.) When the party lets your instinct go crazy they eat the fallout and you get 1 loyalty.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

What I'd like, I think, is some mechanic for generating situations where the Mascot gets into trouble herself--not just gets the party in trouble--and the party has to help her out. But also, I want to limit how often that happens. I'm thinking:
  • Generate some sort of "helper points" by causing minor complications for the party.
  • Spending those "helper points" to throw a wrench into the enemy's plans/actions.
  • You can imperil yourself to do "helper point" stuff with zero helper points, but it results you getting captured or hurt or something else dramatic.
That way, she never has to roll anything or keep track of any stats beyond what "helper points" she has. We could generate a list of monster moves for her that outline the vague ways in which she's able to interfere with enemies or cause complications for allies, but I'm not sure anything that rigid is really necessary.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
You could do kind of like a druid, and outline a few moves she could spend hold on. If they're broad and obvious, she doesn't have to memorize them, but can review them for ideas/prompts.

Aside from that, you're basically just imposing a Defy Danger - Partial Success style of risk-reward, right? But you're skipping the roll and going straight to offering an opportunity (hold) at a cost. Or maybe a druid shapeshift 7-9 is a better comparison here, but it amounts to the same thing. I would think of the mechanic as just doing that, repeatedly.

And if she feels like rolling, you can make it like the full druid move; 10+ success gives 3 hold for doing animal-type things, 7-9 hold 1, etc.

slydingdoor
Oct 26, 2010

Are you in or are you out?
Maybe kinda import part of the Hx system from AW as her core mechanic. When she hoses or fucks with the PCs, her Loyalty goes up with whichever individual bore the brunt of it for when they want to order her around later with the Order Hireling move, or when they max it out they can autosucceed on the Order move, reset the loyalty, and gain an XP. The PCs get that instead of a specific Bond with her. On her end, If she heals or helps them or whatever then she gains Hold that she can spend to get them to confide secrets in her or help realize her Bonds with them (give her one with each PC). When she realizes a Bond, she can level up her hireling abilities and set a new one at next camp when they're taking level up moves or Communing or whatever. That way despite not having XP or HP or anything she still has something to do while camping.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

I do like the idea of bringing Bonds and a modified Hx system into the mix. I might try to do that in a simplified way or, if nothing else, let her make the call when she helps someone rather than letting them order her to help them. Something like:
  • When you cause a problem for the party, gain 1 Loyalty. You can have a maximum of 3 Loyalty.
  • When you spring into action to help the party out of a jam, roll +Loyalty and spend all your Loyalty. On a 10+, gain 3-Hold; on a 7-9, gain 1-Hold. Until the end of the scene, you can spend Hold to perform one of the following moves. (Then have a list, Druid-style, that she can add to as she progresses.) On a 6-, you're in trouble somehow, but you don't spend any Loyalty. (This is the "Momo's time to shine!" move.)
  • When a party member helps you out of trouble, they can roll +Loyalty on any rolls to directly aid you instead of rolling with one of their stats if Loyalty is higher.
  • For every 3 (?) Loyalty you spend, you can gain a "level" the next time the party makes camp.
I worry that having it be like Hx (separate for each party member) might involve more bookkeeping than she'll want to do. Something like build up Loyalty -> spend Loyalty to have a scene where you shine -> level up every time you spend a certain amount of Loyalty seems to make sense.

It might be cool to work the Bonds system into this somehow but I'm not really sure how. "Free" (as in, free of causing the party trouble) Loyalty for resolving a Bond, maybe?

Harrow fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Sep 22, 2015

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Harrow posted:

I do like the idea of bringing Bonds and a modified Hx system into the mix. I might try to do that in a simplified way or, if nothing else, let her make the call when she helps someone rather than letting them order her to help them. Something like:
  • When you cause a problem for the party, gain 1 Loyalty. You can have a maximum of 3 Loyalty.
  • When you spring into action to help the party out of a jam, roll +Loyalty and spend all your Loyalty. On a 10+, gain 3-Hold; on a 7-9, gain 1-Hold. Until the end of the scene, you can spend Hold to perform one of the following moves. (Then have a list, Druid-style, that she can add to as she progresses.) On a 6-, you're in trouble somehow, but you don't spend any Loyalty. (This is the "Momo's time to shine!" move.)
  • When a party member helps you out of trouble, they can roll +Loyalty on any rolls to directly aid you instead of rolling with one of their stats if Loyalty is higher.
  • For every 3 (?) Loyalty you spend, you can gain a "level" the next time the party makes camp.
I worry that having it be like Hx (separate for each party member) might involve more bookkeeping than she'll want to do. Something like build up Loyalty -> spend Loyalty to have a scene where you shine -> level up every time you spend a certain amount of Loyalty seems to make sense.

It might be cool to work the Bonds system into this somehow but I'm not really sure how. "Free" (as in, free of causing the party trouble) Loyalty for resolving a Bond, maybe?

Write bonds as normal, then erase a bond to bump the loyalty roll up 1 tier - basically, you helped the party out but with entirely too many attendant shenanigans.

I don't know how many rolls you're expecting out of this character in a typical game session, so I don't know exactly what's right to do to regain bonds. Maybe end of session you go back up to having as many bonds with the party as the party has with you?

slydingdoor
Oct 26, 2010

Are you in or are you out?
If the idea is for her to never need to roll dice, ie make a move with tiers of success (which means she doesn't really need stats...) or take damage (...or HP), and be able to check in and out at will, I thought that could mean offloading the tiered success moves on the PCs with Order Hireling, which would allow her character to always be as useful and present as a hireling even when she's resting. Then, if they order her to do something dumb, when she finds out about it later, instead of your having to manage the demands of the hireling when someone rolls a hit on Order, especially a shallow one, she'll find she's accrued hold that she can spend to fulfill her bonds with them, which she set with the group during chargen/camp and establish the umbra of her moves instead of having to write monster moves or anything. Also, Bonds are the best part of chargen. Maybe let everyone set their starting Hx/Loyalty with her instead of using up a Bond slot, since they won't be using aid/interfere.

If she doesn't want to keep track of her hold, you or the PCs could do it or assist her when she asks. If the PCs want to do it maybe write a move for having the most loyalty/hold with the Mascot and another for the least instead of using Order Hireling? I liked rolling it into Hireling stuff bc that gives the character a way to advance without having stats (Just pick up new hireling moves. Adept Familiar, Minstrel Cutie Pie, Priest Healing Spit, Burglar, Tracker, Protector, Warrior, whatever).

I'm thinking the sheet would just be "pick a name, look, some Hireling stats, and an alignment, then during bonds, set a bond with everyone but instead of them giving bonds with you, assign everyone a Loyalty rating from this array (-1,0,+1,+2, etc) that determines how likely you are to follow their orders. Whenever your actions hose or prank the PCs, you'll make it up to whichever PC had it worst later, they gain +1 to Momo's Loyalty. When a PC is at +4 loyalty and use the Order Hireling move, it automatically succeeds, their Momo's Loyalty resets to -1, and they gain XP. Whenever you help a PC, whether they asked for it or not, you gain one hold that you can spend to do anything to help resolve your bond with them: e.g. ask them a question and be their confidant, sneak off with some of their unattended gear, or prove yourself to them. When you make camp, you can resolve as many bonds as you want. When you resolve a number of bonds equal to the number of PCs, level up a Hireling skill or gain a new one at +1.

Drop Database
Feb 13, 2012
I finally got around to getting The Master playbook to a near-complete, and properly-templated state. Unless someone points out something drastically wrong with it, this will be the final version of it. It will remain linked here, but eventually end up on DTRPG.

gnome7, kindly add it to the OP, if you're still doing that sort of thing

Edit: and it's up on DTRPG! I feel so accomplished!

Drop Database fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Sep 25, 2015

Cheap Shot
Aug 15, 2006

Help BIP learn gun?


It's been a while, but I ran a playtest of Broken World tonight. (heavily modified dungeon world for post apocalypse)

The groups car broke down while trying to outrun a massive deadly nuclear sand-storm. The only thing in sight was a huge run down stadium. As they approached they were accosted by weirdos wearing hockey gear. After beating them up, several people in striped uniforms on rocket skates holding red flags came out of the stadium blowing whistles. They surrounded the players and informed them that fighting was a penalty and they had to be confined in the penalty box. They were ushered into the stadium to find a collapsed roof and a completely cleared and pristine ice rink they were maintaining. The Cultist convinced the refs that she wasn't a player but actually an investor and team manager, so she was escorted to the VIP seats to meet "The Announcer" on his hockey stick throne. The rest of the players were locked in an armored penalty box for 5 minutes before being let out again. They then were told to face off against the home team on the ice. They were given skates but no sticks, so they had to use their weapons to play. A rifle, a long stick, and a metal folding chair.

The game started fairly normally, with the players actually scoring an early goal, despite barely being able to stand on ice, which none of them had ever seen before. It then got a bit weirder when an aggressive body check by the Muscle impaled the home teams center on broken glass. The body was moved back to the center position, where it stayed for the rest of the game, making puck drops much easier to win.

After a few more goals and a half time, it was discovered that these people had been drinking irradiated sports drink for two generations and had all gone loony. With the help of the Scout stringing the announcers shoe laces together, the Cultist "$19.95" was able to convince the crazy hockey people that their announcer was false. She said he would be struck down if he stood against her, and began preaching the word of "the three easy payments", and wondrous things as seen on TV. When the announcer stood to protest he fell flat on his face because of the shoelaces thing. That was enough for the hockey people who escorted the Cultist to their giant hotrodded jet powered zamboni, clearer of all things, and gave her the honor of clearing the ice. The party climbed on board with whoever would join them and rocketed away from the storm just in time, clearing a long trail in the sand in their wake.

All in all, fantastic session and great players. Everyone is eager to do it again.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Lampblack & Brimstone (the guys behind Servants of the Cinder Queen) released their recently kickstarted The Perilous Wilds, a sourcebook about expanding the steading and overland travel rules for those who want something more in-depth than the basic Undertake a Perilous Journey move.

It's pretty good; it goes into more depth about creating maps and steadings with a little more detail than standard DW without getting more mechanically complex or moving away from the player involvement of "ask questions, build off the answers". There's also expanded follower rules (as well as an updated Ranger that makes the companion more interesting), more specific moves for travel, and a lot of good inspiration tables.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

The corrected versions of the new base DW sheets are up.

Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

Evil Mastermind posted:

The corrected versions of the new base DW sheets are up.

Wish there was a word blank version of this again, I'd do my revised classes (with a few small tweaks I made the past few days too).

zarathud
Feb 24, 2013

Hail Eris!
All Hail DISCORDIA!

Fenarisk posted:

Wish there was a word blank version of this again, I'd do my revised classes (with a few small tweaks I made the past few days too).

I have been waiting on a blank version in Indesign or Inkscape so I can extract the graphical elements before updating the Word templates. I will take a look this week to see if I can do something with the PDFs to get the graphics.

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

zarathud posted:

I have been waiting on a blank version in Indesign or Inkscape so I can extract the graphical elements before updating the Word templates. I will take a look this week to see if I can do something with the PDFs to get the graphics.

I've had some luck ripping poo poo into inkscape from pdfs and working from there.

I can play around with the new sheets and see what I get, if it works I can send you the .svgs for making a template.

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zarathud
Feb 24, 2013

Hail Eris!
All Hail DISCORDIA!

Error 404 posted:

I've had some luck ripping poo poo into inkscape from pdfs and working from there.

I can play around with the new sheets and see what I get, if it works I can send you the .svgs for making a template.

That would be great.

I just found out I can load the PDFs directly into Photoshop so it looks like I can pull the graphics myself.

zarathud fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Sep 28, 2015

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