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my dad posted:It's a very convenient excuse. And is nothing more than an excuse. You aren't in their shoes. I mean, unless your life is in danger and you need to run right now, and are trying to figure how not to die in the short, medium, and long term. US could help them move, which would be the right thing to do considering how much US fuckups contributed to the situation. Helps skip the bits about drowning in the Mediterranean, being robbed by bandits, being beaten half-to-death by a Hungarian policeman and half-starved in an overcrowded camp, or suffocating to death in a truck in Austria. But nope, the Atlantic ocean got in the way, what an insurmountable obstacle to the richest nation on Earth! Hell, I've recently learned that some minority communities in US are trying to organize taking in a number of refugee families on their own initiative, almost as if they had a sense of empathy and basic human decency, yet it's too much of a hassle for the Real AmericanTM to even consider.  e: misread your post. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 16:35
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gradenko_2000 posted:Is this an actual extant option? If you are really, REALLY desperate to get to the U.S., sure. Is anyone that desperate? No. Why? Because Europe is just plain the better option, even with the bandits, authoritarian police, etc.
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Sep 15, 2015 16:54
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mikemil828 posted:If you are really, REALLY desperate to get to the U.S., sure. Is anyone that desperate? No. Why? Because Europe is just plain the better option, even with the bandits, authoritarian police, etc. It's because it's closer. Some will come to Texas* our roads are better *ignore bad things please.
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Sep 15, 2015 16:55
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Nonsense posted:It's because it's closer. Some will come to Texas* our roads are better Given how much Houston ended up resenting taking in actual Americans after Hurricane Katrina, it's pretty funny to think how they would react to having 30,000 Syrians show up.
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Sep 15, 2015 17:04
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mikemil828 posted:If you are really, REALLY desperate to get to the U.S., sure. Is anyone that desperate? No. Why? Because Europe is just plain the better option, even with the bandits, authoritarian police, etc. Nah, I'm pretty sure that they just want to get to a first-world country and it's one hell of a lot easier and cheaper to smuggle yourself across the Mediterranean than it is to smuggle yourself across the Atlantic. Somehow I doubt they're pulling out a detailed chart and carefully comparing countries' welfare systems before they bail out of a smoking warzone for the closest place that isn't a poverty-ridden shithole. Sure, you know that America has a weaker welfare system than some European countries, but do you have any actual evidence that this is a bigger consideration in refugees' decisions than five thousandiles of ocean is?
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Sep 15, 2015 17:15
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mikemil828 posted:If you are really, REALLY desperate to get to the U.S., sure. Is anyone that desperate? No. Why? Because Europe is just plain the better option, even with the bandits, authoritarian police, etc. Has anyone ever tried? Have there been documented instances of attempts, successful or otherwise? I'm sorry if I'm coming off as "just asking questions!", but my larger point is that I think you're somewhat playing this off as the refugees simply choosing where to go as if they could pick between Europe and America on a pros and cons list, rather than the far more real questions of safe passage and logistics.
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Sep 15, 2015 17:20
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mikemil828 posted:Given how much Houston ended up resenting taking in actual Americans after Hurricane Katrina, it's pretty funny to think how they would react to having 30,000 Syrians show up. North Houston suburbs has a lot of assholes with money to spend on complaining about Black people and Muslims, true. edit: I think there are suburbs in east Houston as well.
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Sep 15, 2015 17:21
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Nonsense posted:North Houston suburbs has a lot of assholes with money to spend on complaining about Black people and Muslims, true. Don't forget Katy, Sugar Land, etc. in West Houston. People are selfish everywhere.
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Sep 15, 2015 17:49
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Main Paineframe posted:Somehow I doubt they're pulling out a detailed chart and carefully comparing countries' welfare systems before they bail out of a smoking warzone for the closest place that isn't a poverty-ridden shithole. Given how badly they are trying to get into places like Germany and Austria they certainly are. The refugees aren't simply just trying to get away from the fighting and the chaos. gradenko_2000 posted:Has anyone ever tried? Have there been documented instances of attempts, successful or otherwise? It's doubtful that the shipping industry would allow attempts to be documented. Would make them look bad.
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Sep 15, 2015 18:10
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Main Paineframe posted:Nah, I'm pretty sure that they just want to get to a first-world country and it's one hell of a lot easier and cheaper to smuggle yourself across the Mediterranean than it is to smuggle yourself across the Atlantic. Somehow I doubt they're pulling out a detailed chart and carefully comparing countries' welfare systems before they bail out of a smoking warzone for the closest place that isn't a poverty-ridden shithole. Sure, you know that America has a weaker welfare system than some European countries, but do you have any actual evidence that this is a bigger consideration in refugees' decisions than five thousandiles of ocean is? The educated lot certainly do. As do professional smugglers.
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Sep 15, 2015 18:51
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Cake Smashing Boob posted:The educated lot certainly do. As do professional smugglers. Yup.
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Sep 15, 2015 18:59
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Tesseraction posted:Did I say funny? I meant gross and depressing. you loving said it man. mind if i put this on an image macro for facebook? will credit of course.
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Sep 15, 2015 19:13
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mikemil828 posted:It's not an excuse, it's just basic observation, there isn't anything stopping refugees from being smuggled into a cargo container and braving the three week journey to America, however they aren't doing that, refugees are voting with their feet and most want to go to Europe. If they want to go to Europe, who's the U.S. to say otherwise? mikemil828 posted:If you are really, REALLY desperate to get to the U.S., sure. Is anyone that desperate? No. Why? Because Europe is just plain the better option, even with the bandits, authoritarian police, etc. I'll be sure to pick up your heat-stroked corpse on the other side and laugh at you, because guess what, spending three weeks in a shipping container with no ventilation will loving kill you; temps in one of those things get up to more than 150 degrees inside. fade5 fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 19:25
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mikemil828 posted:Given how badly they are trying to get into places like Germany and Austria they certainly are. The refugees aren't simply just trying to get away from the fighting and the chaos. Like I said, the closest place that isn't a poverty-ridden shithole.
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Sep 15, 2015 20:00
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fade5 posted:Tell you what, you try to ship yourself across the Atlantic in a crate, hell you can even take 3 weeks worth of food and water with you and so you can prove that you're right and all of us are wrong. Sure, just let me bribe the container ship captain into keeping the container open throughout the trip first. It's not like you'd know. Main Paineframe posted:Like I said, the closest place that isn't a poverty-ridden shithole. While Greece may be iffy, it's hard to call Italy, Serbia, and Hungary and Turkey 'shitholes' yet refugees choose to head up north from there. mikemil828 fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 20:10
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Honj Steak posted:Although there has been a continuous rise in the migrant population for decades now, crime rates have been shrinking steadily since 2004. While overall the offence rate in Germany has been going down for a while, there have been years since 2004 where it actually increased (p. 9). Also there's the caveat that the PCS as the main crime rate statistic cannot be compared from 2004-2014, as it changed statistical basis in 2009. Furthermore, while overall offence rate is trending downwards, certain crimes are actually on the rise, particularly bodily harm (p. 22) and very noticeably burglarly into dwellings (p. 28). Also, while German suspects are down, non-German suspects are up (p. 64) and the ratio of non-German suspects to total suspects is still significantly higher than the ratio of non-Germans to total population (This is already discounting offences that can only be committed by foreigners). And while PCS itself notes that there are problems with determining number of non-German suspects the problems related to that determination are still unlikely to fully balance out the disproportionate amount of non-German suspects. Though it has to be said that differing age demographics among non-Germans residing in Germany probably unfavorably skew part of that, because some non-German populations tend to have proportionally more young men than the German population, and young men are the subset of a population most likely to offend. Just pointing toward an overall downward trend in crime rates is a bit too simple. [Page references to PCS 2014, English language version.]
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Sep 15, 2015 20:21
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Randler posted:While overall the offence rate in Germany has been going down for a while, there have been years since 2004 where it actually increased (p. 9). Also there's the caveat that the PCS as the main crime rate statistic cannot be compared from 2004-2014, as it changed statistical basis in 2009. Furthermore, while overall offence rate is trending downwards, certain crimes are actually on the rise, particularly bodily harm (p. 22) and very noticeably burglarly into dwellings (p. 28). Also, while German suspects are down, non-German suspects are up (p. 64) and the ratio of non-German suspects to total suspects is still significantly higher than the ratio of non-Germans to total population (This is already discounting offences that can only be committed by foreigners). And while PCS itself notes that there are problems with determining number of non-German suspects the problems related to that determination are still unlikely to fully balance out the disproportionate amount of non-German suspects. Though it has to be said that differing age demographics among non-Germans residing in Germany probably unfavorably skew part of that, because some non-German populations tend to have proportionally more young men than the German population, and young men are the subset of a population most likely to offend. so you're saying i should buy bitcoins?
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Sep 15, 2015 20:24
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Ernie Muppari posted:so you're saying i should buy bitcoins? Only under the condition that you use a corporate shell and that you can sell it as a business expense in order to start up that corporate shell's fintech business, so you can get some FCPR to give you stupid money before the fintech bubble bursts. Do not buy bitcoin on your personal accounts and do not take out loans to finance the acquisition of further bitcoins.
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Sep 15, 2015 20:34
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mikemil828 posted:Sure, just let me bribe the container ship captain into keeping the container open throughout the trip first. It's not like you'd know.  Just sit in the closed box for three weeks baking in the sun, I mean it's so loving easy right?  quote:While Greece may be iffy, it's hard to call Italy, Serbia, and Hungary and Turkey 'shitholes' yet refugees choose to head up north from there.
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Sep 15, 2015 20:56
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mikemil828 posted:While Greece may be iffy, it's hard to call Italy, Serbia, and Hungary and Turkey 'shitholes' yet refugees choose to head up north from there. Turkey is too close to the conflict for a lot of people to feel comfortable (Also, Erdogan), Hungary's president is going to spontaneously grow a Hitler mustache any day now, Italy is a lot harder to get to, and while I wouldn't call Serbia a shithole, we're a small country, the median salary is just below 300 euros/month, the unemployment rate is almost 20%, we were hit by a devastating flood last year from which we still haven't fully recovered, and we're in no condition to handle a large influx of permanently settled refugees - we're barely able to provide proper care to the ones in transit as is. Not that it stops people like Sarkozy coming up with the brilliant idea of making us handle the brunt of the refugee crisis.
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Sep 15, 2015 20:57
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my dad posted:Turkey is too close to the conflict for a lot of people to feel comfortable (Also, Erdogan), Hungary's president is going to spontaneously grow a Hitler mustache any day now, Italy is a lot harder to get to, and while I wouldn't call Serbia a shithole, we're a small country, the median salary is just below 300 euros/month, the unemployment rate is almost 20%, we were hit by a devastating flood last year from which we still haven't fully recovered, and we're in no condition to handle a large influx of permanently settled refugees - we're barely able to provide proper care to the ones in transit as is. Not that it stops people like Sarkozy coming up with the brilliant idea of making us handle the brunt of the refugee crisis. LOL well that's what you get for not being in EU/Geographically located closer to the Middle East! - someone who thinks this is perfectly valid and fair way of determining the responsibility over refugees
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Sep 15, 2015 21:00
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You'd be better off trying to climb into landing gear than trying to smuggle yourself via shipping container, and you can count the number of people who have survived a flight up there across the atlantic on one finger.
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Sep 15, 2015 21:38
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mikemil828 posted:If given the option would refugees really want to come to America? Europe's the place with the social safety nets, the universal healthcare, the mandatory vacations, etc. If Europe has the resources to handle everyone and according to you guys they do, why should America take anyone who would not be able to handle our 'gently caress you got mine' society, it would be cruel imo. Radbot posted:Yeah let's be honest, why in the everloving gently caress would you choose America over any western European country if you're a Syrian refugee, or a person with a functioning brain? ITT Americans who have never been refugees or lived in Europe leftsplain how bad America is while thinking shipping container people smuggling is a thing that can happen. Having done both, Germany/Sweden/America are probably pretty close together in terms of resources for newcomers, all of them are head and shoulders above everyone else in the EU and the sheer amount of racism towards immigrants that
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Sep 15, 2015 22:55
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tbp posted:you loving said it man. mind if i put this on an image macro for facebook? will credit of course. Assuming you serious someone more famous than me said the same thing so use Frankie Boyle for any quote.
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Sep 15, 2015 23:05
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fade5 posted:Sorry, can't do that, shipping containers are stacked on boats like this: We can stop these refugees easily just find the shipping container with plumbing and obnoxious disco beats after 11 PM.
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Sep 15, 2015 23:07
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How about some extremism: Wait...
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Sep 16, 2015 00:07
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Reposting this from another thread, European Enlightenment in action, folks. . Polish anti-immigration protest. Evidently it says something like, "Islamic pigs, we are waiting for you and will cut your heads off." Cant have those backwards people in Europe. no sireee. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 04:21
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One of the ways in which Europeans and provincial Americans might not get how the US is considered better despite its issues with social welfare by many immigrants is that we like immigrants a whole lot more than Europeans do. When people complain about immigrants "stealing" social services in the US, they frame it in terms of "illegals" not paying taxes but drawing benefits. To contrast, European conservative views indicate that immigrants are basically incapable of contributing to society. Indeed, while you have quite a lot of racism against particular groups of immigrants, it's also something that isn't expressed in the form of rallies and public threats, because that kind of attitude just isn't socially acceptable. One of the good parts of our national mythmaking is that it has enshrined "America is a nation of immigrants" into our culture deeply.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:29
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sincx posted:Doubt it. That's one of Abbott's most popular policies. Australia has already taken in 3000 Syrian refugees over the past few years and is about to accept another 12000.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:42
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doodlebugs posted:Australia has already taken in 3000 Syrian refugees over the past few years and is about to accept another 12000. A tiny number even when compared only to what other countries have done. It's also been subtracted from Australia's already agreed on refugee intake for this year. They haven't really done anything.
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Sep 16, 2015 05:53
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katlington posted:A tiny number even when compared only to what other countries have done. It's also been subtracted from Australia's already agreed on refugee intake for this year. They haven't really done anything. it hasn't been subtracted at all .
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Sep 16, 2015 06:54
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Al-Saqr posted:Reposting this from another thread, European Enlightenment in action, folks. . The more I see pictures like this, the more I realize that western culture is just not compatible with western values.
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Sep 16, 2015 11:03
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Whereas I just thought "of course she's wearing Adidas."
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Sep 16, 2015 11:40
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waitwhatno posted:The more I see pictures like this, the more I realize that western culture is just not compatible with western values. Is Poland officially western now? When did this happen?
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Sep 16, 2015 12:26
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waitwhatno posted:The more I see pictures like this, the more I realize that western culture is just not compatible with western values. Do you honestly think that sentence makes any sense whatsoever?
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Sep 16, 2015 13:31
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Smudgie Buggler posted:Do you honestly think that sentence makes any sense whatsoever? It's a joke about how refugees from the Middle East cannot and will not ever be able to integrate with Western society because their values are just inherently different.
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Sep 16, 2015 13:36
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Effectronica posted:One of the ways in which Europeans and provincial Americans might not get how the US is considered better despite its issues with social welfare by many immigrants is that we like immigrants a whole lot more than Europeans do. When people complain about immigrants "stealing" social services in the US, they frame it in terms of "illegals" not paying taxes but drawing benefits. To contrast, European conservative views indicate that immigrants are basically incapable of contributing to society. This might change very suddenly if someone like Jeb! or Trump gets the presidency since he might ratfuck the country into a position where immigration and integration isn't suddenly so easy anymore. 
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Sep 16, 2015 13:37
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Adar posted:ITT Americans who have never been refugees or lived in Europe leftsplain how bad America is while thinking shipping container people smuggling is a thing that can happen. Adar, what does America grant in terms of resources for newcomers? I was under the impression it was a cold, uncaring country.
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Sep 16, 2015 13:42
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doodlebugs posted:it hasn't been subtracted at all . You are correct I had outdated information.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:12
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Klaus88 posted:This might change very suddenly if someone like Jeb! or Trump gets the presidency since he might ratfuck the country into a position where immigration and integration isn't suddenly so easy anymore. Jeb, as might be expected from a Florida politician (there's some unique demos you don't wanna mess with there, like the Cuban expats), is pretty solid on both immigration and refugees. He's been taking some heat from the right for things like speaking Spanish at campaign rallies and saying the US should be taking more Syrian refugees. Trump's a different story, but there's no way he's going to be president. His whole campaign has been one big stand-up routine.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:27
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