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Popping in after reading an article about that train station in Hungary. If these people are fleeing war and political instability, why are they not happy with serbia and hungary (Which, AFAIK are EU member nations with all the rights thereof)? It seems greedy to demand residence in only the richest nations if you are claiming refugee status. That makes them economic migrants, not war refugees, which is a whole other kettle of fish.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:36
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my dad posted:It's a very convenient excuse. And is nothing more than an excuse. You aren't in their shoes. I mean, unless your life is in danger and you need to run right now, and are trying to figure how not to die in the short, medium, and long term. US could help them move, which would be the right thing to do considering how much US fuckups contributed to the situation. Helps skip the bits about drowning in the Mediterranean, being robbed by bandits, being beaten half-to-death by a Hungarian policeman and half-starved in an overcrowded camp, or suffocating to death in a truck in Austria. But nope, the Atlantic ocean got in the way, what an insurmountable obstacle to the richest nation on Earth! Hell, I've recently learned that some minority communities in US are trying to organize taking in a number of refugee families on their own initiative, almost as if they had a sense of empathy and basic human decency, yet it's too much of a hassle for the Real AmericanTM to even consider. Nah, it's not that at all. More like America is an objectively bad place to be as a person with brown skin who has nothing and speaks Arabic. Perhaps you've heard of the 14 year old Muslim kid who was arrested for bringing a clock to school, because clocks are used for bombs and eveyone knows Muslims love bombs? And this kid speaks perfect English, is very smart, and has an influential father. You are correct that it beats being barrel bombed though. Also lol @ "richest nation on earth", why does it matter if our rich people have the biggest bank accounts Radbot fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 14:36
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Your gov't also has the biggest bank account, and honestly near infinite money due to the strength of the dollar. The issue is only willingness to spend it constructively, just as in Europe. e: you're correct on other counts tho, but barring the existence of an actual social safety net Europe probably won't accept them much better re: tolerance
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Sep 16, 2015 14:41
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SaltyJesus posted:Your gov't also has the biggest bank account, and honestly near infinite money due to the strength of the dollar. The issue is only willingness to spend it constructively, just as in Europe. We don't use that money to help Americans, why the gently caress would we use it to help Syrians? Obviously any part of Syria is worse than the US right now, but we've got a strong showing in the Poverty Olympics and we as Americans aggressively don't give a gently caress about that.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:44
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mastershakeman posted:Adar, what does America grant in terms of resources for newcomers? I was under the impression it was a cold, uncaring country. We make them play the Running Man and anybody who survives gets access to services. Its how Arnold got his start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_Man MattD1zzl3 posted:Popping in after reading an article about that train station in Hungary. If these people are fleeing war and political instability, why are they not happy with serbia and hungary (Which, AFAIK are EU member nations with all the rights thereof)? It seems greedy to demand residence in only the richest nations if you are claiming refugee status. That makes them economic migrants, not war refugees, which is a whole other kettle of fish. So somebody who's been forced to uproot from everything they've know, everything they've worked for generations to build to run from death squads doesn't deserve anything other then a starvation level living situation?  America's compassion for its Islamic citizens.http://www.dallasnews.com/news/comm...k-to-school.ece Klaus88 fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 14:44
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Popping in after reading an article about that train station in Hungary. If these people are fleeing war and political instability, why are they not happy with serbia and hungary (Which, AFAIK are EU member nations with all the rights thereof)? It seems greedy to demand residence in only the richest nations if you are claiming refugee status. That makes them economic migrants, not war refugees, which is a whole other kettle of fish. Serbia is not a member of the EU and while I believe we all should be doing as much as we can to help the refugees somebody already explained that the Serbian and Hungarian economies were in a bad way even before the migrant crisis (eg. >20% unemployment rate in Serbia's case) and Serbia is straining just to take care of the refugees on their way through, let alone if they all somehow decided to stay.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:47
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Send all migrants to Germany as a retroactive condition to their debt forgiveness post-WWII.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:49
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Klaus88 posted:
They dont deserve to starve, but they also dont automatically deserve a comfortable, wealthy life. The point is to get them away from the bombs and guns. Certainly not starve. But they all seem to be bellowing "UK OR GERMANY" sorry "WESTERN GERMANY".
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Sep 16, 2015 14:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SezoGW_z9w0 Show me your fugee face  
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Sep 16, 2015 14:53
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Just recently a court even ruled that German authorities are not allowed to send refugees to Hungary because of the miserable humanitarian conditions there. The situation is really bad in Hungary.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:56
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I knew serbia was tough, but i didnt realize that things were so dire in hungary before the crisis. It always seemed like a nice place. I stand corrected i guess. I still think we should still draw a sharp line between economic migrants and war refugees. The story also said that in the hungarian train station 83% are men between 18-35, which makes sense, a lone man is most capable of travelling hundreds of miles alone but another news story said "Half are children". MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 15:03
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MattD1zzl3 posted:Popping in after reading an article about that train station in Hungary. If these people are fleeing war and political instability, why are they not happy with serbia and hungary (Which, AFAIK are EU member nations with all the rights thereof)? It seems greedy to demand residence in only the richest nations if you are claiming refugee status. That makes them economic migrants, not war refugees, which is a whole other kettle of fish. Hungary does not take kindly to people who are not ethnically Hungarian. You might be lucky and be in a part with nice people, but given there's more than a fifth of the populace supporting the Hungarian Nazi Party (Jobbik) you're statistically not very likely to be lucky.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:06
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MattD1zzl3 posted:I knew serbia was tough, but i didnt realize that things were so dire in hungary before the crisis. It always seemed like a nice place. I stand corrected i guess. I still think we should still draw a sharp line between economic migrants and war refugees. The story also said that 83% are men between 18-35, but another news story said "Half are children". As I recall this breakdown is 80% of the people making the crossings are working-age men trying to get to safety to earn money to afford to bring the rest of their family from the camps. Half of the total refugees (including the camps) are children.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:08
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Al-Saqr posted:Reposting this from another thread, European Enlightenment in action, folks. . It doesn't take much to get Europeans to march around with a pig's head on a staff, does it? Why don't they wear bear skins and pray to the sun while they're at it.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:53
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SedanChair posted:It doesn't take much to get Europeans to march around with a pig's head on a staff, does it? Why don't they wear bear skins and pray to the sun while they're at it. We pretty much wear bear skins in Winter and love the Sun more then any god in the North
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Sep 16, 2015 15:57
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SedanChair posted:It doesn't take much to get Europeans to march around with a pig's head on a staff, does it? Why don't they wear bear skins and pray to the sun while they're at it. If you get me drunk enough I'll do just that. In Hungary news, they've just sent in riot police and are using tear gas on refugees. So yeah, I think staying there is a bad call.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:01
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DarkCrawler posted:We pretty much wear bear skins in Winter and love the Sun more then any god in the North Fire, loving and the Sun. That's most of our rituals and traditions right there.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:05
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murphyslaw posted:In Hungary news, they've just sent in riot police and are using tear gas on refugees. So yeah, I think staying there is a bad call. Oh good, because if there was one thing the Syrian refugees were missing about home it was being fired upon.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:09
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At this point Hungary might be doing them a favor by closing the border. the refugees will probably have a much better time going through Croatia.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:11
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Hello from Italy, just wanted to let you know that this thread is now my official source of information on the refugee crisis As a European I'm not really interested in a debate because concerns about being right or wrong (on the Internet!) are kinda secondary to threats to the wellbeing of me and my family. Even before the crisis, our national health care system had already taken ridiculous and gratuitous cuts that will affect me directly, and I'd rather not they made a habit of it Wasn't this song about gays moving from New York to San Francisco?
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Sep 16, 2015 16:28
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Surely west London (which is where the gay district is, I believe).
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Sep 16, 2015 16:30
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SedanChair posted:It doesn't take much to get Europeans to march around with a pig's head on a staff, does it? Why don't they wear bear skins and pray to the sun while they're at it. I mean is that somehow less socially acceptable then anything the Abrahamic religions do? I don't see why European society at large should have to give some sort of blanket protection to Islam to not trigger immigrants.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:30
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Sword and Sceptre posted:I mean is that somehow less socially acceptable then anything the Abrahamic religions do? I don't see why European society at large should have to give some sort of blanket protection to Islam to not trigger immigrants. 
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Sep 16, 2015 16:31
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It's not like people woke up one morning somewhere in Syria, saw a mortar round hit nearby and decided to run to Europe. Something like half of Syria's population lives in refugee camps outside the country. These people are coming here because they don't want to rot away in these horrifying camps for the rest of their lives. What's wrong with that? Why are they obligated to lead the most miserable live as a displaced person? They are different from an economic migrants because they don't have a home anymore. An old tent, a hole to poo poo in and a sack of rice in some camp is not a home for a family with children.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:34
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Sword and Sceptre posted:I mean is that somehow less socially acceptable then anything the Abrahamic religions do? I don't see why European society at large should have to give some sort of blanket protection to Islam to not trigger immigrants. Or threaten to behead them. Good old civilised society, threatening to cut off Muslim heads. Proper decent society that is. Not like those Sand Dwellers, eh?
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Sep 16, 2015 16:34
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Tesseraction posted:Or threaten to behead them. Good old civilised society, threatening to cut off Muslim heads. Proper decent society that is. Not like those Sand Dwellers, eh? I was making a larger statement about the perception of Islam in the west by the left, posting on my phone and my point was unclear, I apologize. Obviously anyone supporting or even implicitly suggesting violence against refuges should be heavily reprimanded.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:44
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Live action from the Hungarian/Serbian border: http://www.rt.com/on-air/hungarian-border-police-refugees/ Look like some clashes happened earlier...
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Sep 16, 2015 16:50
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Istrian posted:Live action from the Hungarian/Serbian border: http://www.rt.com/on-air/hungarian-border-police-refugees/ Guardian is reporting teargas and watercannon usage.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:55
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kikkelivelho posted:Guardian is reporting teargas and watercannon usage. Been watching the streams for a couple of hours, it's been a riot pretty much. They've been starting fires and hurling chunks of concrete at the police. No combining the two and throwing molotovs yet, but it's looking more likely as the day goes on.
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Sep 16, 2015 17:02
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I'm sure this tenuous situation will be de-escalated and resolved by a measured response from the Hungarian authorities and the riots will in no way be used as ammunition by a hostile right wing press. 
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Sep 16, 2015 17:05
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Tesseraction posted:As I recall this breakdown is 80% of the people making the crossings are working-age men trying to get to safety to earn money to afford to bring the rest of their family from the camps. Half of the total refugees (including the camps) are children. Could you link me to either? Having trouble finding it itt
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Sep 16, 2015 17:06
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kikkelivelho posted:Guardian is reporting teargas and watercannon usage. News sites say a group of a couple hundred people are throwing water bottles and stones at the police, and have removed part of the fence, leaving only policemen to guard the border (and, as the government's spokesman has said, keep armed migrants from crossing it).
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Sep 16, 2015 17:07
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Reading articles online, a lot of them are copy pasted, but with the words refugee/migrant/illegal immigrant changed from website to website.
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Sep 16, 2015 17:13
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mastershakeman posted:Adar, what does America grant in terms of resources for newcomers? I was under the impression it was a cold, uncaring country. Depends, but official refugee status grants quite a bit - you get Medicaid, food stamps and some basic assistance along with immediate employment authorization. There's a sample list at http://www.rcusa.org/post-arrival-assistance-and-benefits. Also, if you're a single male trying to earn enough money to bring the family over, the US is by far the best especially if you know some basic English (as opposed to Swedish - nothing against Sweden but c'mon nobody's learning any of that in six months). Yeah, if you're brown, the police are more likely to stop you and you might even wind up in jail for no reason. This is both not a thing that's in any way different from most of Europe and also not a thing that most refugees are immediately going to experience or care about. Radbot and co. are bitching about the horrible American treatment of the same people who are literally being fed nothing but pork by Hungarian cops taunting them right now, and it's not even like France, Italy, etc. are much better. Adar fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 17:36
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A Serbian national television news team was beaten up by the Hungarian police, their equipment was broken, and a journalist had to be hospitalized. (Article in Serbian)
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Sep 16, 2015 17:37
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hackbunny posted:Wasn't this song about gays moving from New York to San Francisco? It's about migrating for FREEDOM
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Sep 16, 2015 17:40
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At least 20 Hungarian officers have also been injured. This is probably going to turn out real ugly.
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Sep 16, 2015 17:41
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Turns out Euro border blockades don't mean poo poo.
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Sep 16, 2015 17:54
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Adar posted:Depends, but official refugee status grants quite a bit - you get Medicaid, food stamps and some basic assistance along with immediate employment authorization. There's a sample list at http://www.rcusa.org/post-arrival-assistance-and-benefits. Also, if you're a single male trying to earn enough money to bring the family over, the US is by far the best especially if you know some basic English (as opposed to Swedish - nothing against Sweden but c'mon nobody's learning any of that in six months). The problem re: family reunification isn't money so much as it is permission. Travel (legal travel) is relatively cheap and may even be covered (depending on country of refuge, refugee status etc). Cake Smashing Boob fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 18:12
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Crossposting from the EE thread:my dad posted:Anyway, the situation calmed down, though it's gonna suck for the refugees. Our emergency services are there, but the conditions in the refugee camp near the border are pretty bad from what I can gather from the news. my dad fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 18:39
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