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On the other hand, there's like 50k mines at the Croatian border.
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Sep 16, 2015 19:07
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my dad posted:Crossposting from the EE thread: Probably the last piece of news I'm reading today, but a news portal's journalists on site say that the whole riot thing broke out due to a misunderstanding: police opened the gates to let in a couple of families with small children, and the crowd moved in assuming it's open for everyone. Police tried to control the crowd (these guys aren't really versed in such situations, so I guess someone made a hasty decision), and the rest is history.
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Sep 16, 2015 19:08
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waitwhatno posted:Something like half of Syria's population lives in refugee camps outside the country. These people are coming here because they don't want to rot away in these horrifying camps for the rest of their lives. What's wrong with that? Hundreds of millions, possibly billions of people are much worse off than those in Turkish refugee camps. Do they all get to come to Europe? Does there have to be war where you're from, or is the possibility of starvation enough? If we're morally obliged to accept anyone who makes it here, why aren't we morally obliged to find anyone with a worse living standard than us and actively bring them here? Do we have to keep doing so until our standard of living is equalised with the rest of the world?
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Sep 16, 2015 21:03
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Nermal posted:Do we have to keep doing so until our standard of living is equalised with the rest of the world? Globalization is inevitable
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Sep 16, 2015 21:06
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Cake Smashing Boob posted:The problem re: family reunification isn't money so much as it is permission. Travel (legal travel) is relatively cheap and may even be covered (depending on country of refuge, refugee status etc). In refugee cases, permission is easy to get for direct relatives, but a)these are Syrians/Afghans so you have to imagine there are tons of cousins and in-laws and b)you still need the money to get the rest of the family smuggled out at least as far as Turkey, which government channels won't cover. It doesn't matter because they don't have the option, but if I had to earn $10K doing menial labor the US is a much better place to do that in a hurry than Europe.
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Sep 16, 2015 21:15
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Jim DiGriz posted:Probably the last piece of news I'm reading today, but a news portal's journalists on site say that the whole riot thing broke out due to a misunderstanding: police opened the gates to let in a couple of families with small children, and the crowd moved in assuming it's open for everyone. Police tried to control the crowd (these guys aren't really versed in such situations, so I guess someone made a hasty decision), and the rest is history. It was because we hate their freedom.
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Sep 16, 2015 21:22
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my dad posted:Crossposting from the EE thread: I made an inquiry a bit ago that got lost in the shuffle. Why wasn't Romania already a major conduit? Even more lovely mountains and less access to the more profitable places to work? (Although Poland, spiked pig heads notwithstanding, could probably benefit from manual laborers working to raise the locals' living standards...)
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Sep 16, 2015 21:26
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I made an inquiry a bit ago that got lost in the shuffle. Why wasn't Romania already a major conduit? Even more lovely mountains and less access to the more profitable places to work? (Although Poland, spiked pig heads notwithstanding, could probably benefit from manual laborers working to raise the locals' living standards...) Short answer: Schengen - they ain't in it.
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Sep 16, 2015 21:29
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Nermal posted:Hundreds of millions, possibly billions of people are much worse off than those in Turkish refugee camps. In fact hundreds of millions, possibly billions of people are not much worse off then Syrians. Most who do not reside in Turkish refugee camps but in the cities towns and villages of Turkey and other countries they are in. Why do developing countries have to shoulder the blame for the refugees of the world? Why isn't Europe, who frankly is more to blame for the current situation then Lebanon or Jordan or Iran, can say "go gently caress yourself" to refugees but the other countries just have to take it in insanely greater numbers then is expected of Europe, while having a fraction of the resources or the population?
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Sep 16, 2015 21:32
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Gravel Gravy posted:Could you link me to either? Having trouble finding it itt Agh, I can't find it now either. Did I even read it in this thread or the Middle East one before discussion fully moved here? Someone was asking about it on these forums and someone on the ground over there replied back.
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Sep 16, 2015 21:34
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my dad posted:Short answer: Schengen - they ain't in it. My Romanian buddy suggests the economy is currently two bollocks short of a money shot at the moment, too.
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Sep 16, 2015 21:35
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Tesseraction posted:Agh, I can't find it now either. Did I even read it in this thread or the Middle East one before discussion fully moved here? Someone was asking about it on these forums and someone on the ground over there replied back. I found reference to it here: http://eaworldview.com/2015/09/syria-and-beyond-feature-9-myths-about-refugees-and-how-to-answer-them/ I'm not sure how feasible it is though without anything else backing it up.
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Sep 16, 2015 21:36
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Yeah that's hardly citable evidence, but then I guess the bits I was thinking back to were primarily first-hand sources.
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Sep 16, 2015 21:40
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I made an inquiry a bit ago that got lost in the shuffle. Why wasn't Romania already a major conduit? Even more lovely mountains and less access to the more profitable places to work? (Although Poland, spiked pig heads notwithstanding, could probably benefit from manual laborers working to raise the locals' living standards...) In addition to what my dad said, the natural border between Bulgaria and Romania is the Danube. Crossing rivers is a much trickier proposition than hopping a land border.
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Sep 16, 2015 21:40
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Nermal posted:Hundreds of millions, possibly billions of people are much worse off than those in Turkish refugee camps. Well when you join America in loving up the world, that hosed-up world becomes your responsibility. Why do you think you deserve a better life than a Syrian refugee?
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Sep 16, 2015 21:52
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Radbot posted:Well when you join America in loving up the world, that hosed-up world becomes your responsibility. Why do you think you deserve a better life than a Syrian refugee? White skin. 
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Sep 16, 2015 21:55
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DarkCrawler posted:In fact hundreds of millions, possibly billions of people are not much worse off then Syrians. Most who do not reside in Turkish refugee camps but in the cities towns and villages of Turkey and other countries they are in. Plenty of people worse off. About 200M people going hungry right now in sub-Saharan Africa, maybe 800-900M worldwide. Radbot posted:Well when you join America in loving up the world, that hosed-up world becomes your responsibility. Utterly ludicrous to suggest that any country in Europe has 'joined' America in loving up the world. I'll be generous and give the UK and France a 5% share of responsibility. You can start the campaign to pin the rise of ISIS on Hungary or Serbia if you like. Radbot posted:Why do you think you deserve a better life than a Syrian refugee? Luck!
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Sep 16, 2015 22:20
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Nermal posted:Plenty of people worse off. About 200M people going hungry right now in sub-Saharan Africa, maybe 800-900M worldwide. Are you seeing those people coming here, asking for help? Or are we helping them in other ways? I believe there has been quite concrete and massive efforts worldwide to alleviate world hunger by Western (and other) countries. Again, why does Lebanon or Jordan have to take care of refugees while European countries do not? Nermal posted:Utterly ludicrous to suggest that any country in Europe has 'joined' America in loving up the world. I'll be generous and give the UK and France a 5% share of responsibility. You can start the campaign to pin the rise of ISIS on Hungary or Serbia if you like. What countries invaded Iraq? What countries invaded Afghanistan? Why is Iran going to have to take care of the refugees caused by those countries? Why is it OK for Hungarians to be refugees in living memory, seeking help from other countries, but not for Syrians? And LOL at the European countries not being responsible for whole other long list of poo poo in the Middle East beyond the most recent American excursion. The world wasn't created on 2003. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 22:38
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A Belgian tv channel went to people who posted bad facebook comments about the refugees and bradcast their faces nationally along with their facebook messsages. http://www.vier.be/karenendecoster/videos/het-allemaal-stront-elke-bootvluchteling-mag-verzuipen/1238119
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Sep 16, 2015 22:45
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Wrongthink criminals must be punished.
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Sep 16, 2015 22:54
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Sep 16, 2015 22:58
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my dad posted:Short answer: Schengen - they ain't in it. Oh huh, for some reason I thought Hungary wasn't either. I guess my question would apply to Serbia then, but SaltyJesus covered that!
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Sep 16, 2015 23:01
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Radbot posted:Well when you join America in loving up the world, that hosed-up world becomes your responsibility. Why do you think you deserve a better life than a Syrian refugee? DarkCrawler posted:What countries invaded Iraq? What countries invaded Afghanistan? Why is Iran going to have to take care of the refugees caused by those countries?
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Sep 16, 2015 23:29
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The Belgian posted:A Belgian tv channel went to people who posted bad facebook comments about the refugees and bradcast their faces nationally along with their facebook messsages. That's a quite hosed up thing to do.
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Sep 16, 2015 23:57
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Dead Reckoning posted:Well, if you're going to question who deserves a high standard of living, you're either going to have to rack & stack everyone's contributions to mankind, and no one really wants to do that because, well, a lot of reasons. Or?
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Sep 17, 2015 00:35
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chessmaster13 posted:That's a quite hosed up thing to do. They're just feeling guilty because they killed a democratic leader in Africa in living memory.
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Sep 17, 2015 00:36
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Has anyone posted this yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVWAIKoatWM It is a documentary on muslims in Germany who refuse to assimilate and a comparison with Canada. I have no idea what ZDF is but the intro suggests they are left leaning. Could be Nazis for all I know.
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Sep 17, 2015 00:51
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Dead Reckoning posted:Wait, how does the US and NATO fighting a war in Afghanistan that can be laid squarely at the feet of the Taliban make Europe responsible for Syrian refugees? Indeed. The war in Afghanistan, which was initiated by NATO, can be laid squarely at the feet of the Taliban.
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Sep 17, 2015 00:56
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Chomskyan posted:Indeed. The war in Afghanistan, which was initiated by NATO, can be laid squarely at the feet of the Taliban. Yes, we just invaded Afghanistan for no reason. Absolutely. 
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Sep 17, 2015 01:06
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Mulaney Power Move posted:Has anyone posted this yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVWAIKoatWM Germany has always had a problem with the Turkish population. It's so bad that in textbooks I have from the 90s designed for young children it discussed the Turkish issue (including sections on knife crime!). The large immigration number is from a Guest-Worker program in the 50s/60s (think worker visas) and was helped by America's intervention in Turkey over Cold War alliances. The lesson from this is that treating the Turkish population as 'Guest-Workers' meant they were considered temporary, and so no intention of integration was considered because they were expected to gently caress off later, but this didn't happen across all of the immigrant population. Or, in short: don't integrate by ghettoising.
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Sep 17, 2015 01:10
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DarkCrawler posted:In fact hundreds of millions, possibly billions of people are not much worse off then Syrians. Most who do not reside in Turkish refugee camps but in the cities towns and villages of Turkey and other countries they are in. Well, first, most of this so called Europe is actually a victim of historical imperialism, and as such bears no responsibility for the Middle East. That includes first and foremost Hungary who ended up bearing the brunt of the problem at the worst possible time by no guilt on their part. Second, if there's one country that ruined the fragile balance of the ME, it's the US, who have categorically refused to deal with the crisis.
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Sep 17, 2015 01:11
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Yes, we just invaded Afghanistan for no reason. Absolutely. Yeah, loving Afghanistan hiding those responsible for 9/11. Fuckers deserve this instability.
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Sep 17, 2015 01:13
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steinrokkan posted:Second, if there's one country that ruined the fragile balance of the ME, it's the US, who have categorically refused to deal with the crisis.
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Sep 17, 2015 01:15
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Dead Reckoning posted:Still waiting for that explanation of how the United States was responsible for Assad starting a military crackdown on his protesting citizens. Give it a rest, this is no longer about Assad. The Americans aren't responsible for literally every single thing in the region, but they are more culpable than any other country in the world.
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Sep 17, 2015 01:17
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steinrokkan posted:Give it a rest, this is no longer about Assad. The Americans aren't responsible for literally every single thing in the region, but they are more culpable than any other country in the world. Maybe you should petition Russia to accept refugees.
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Sep 17, 2015 01:20
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One could also point out that while Assad was being a dick for quite a while, America allowed the civil war to propagate in 2012 despite Russian attempts to diplomatically stop it. This is not to say Russia weren't up to something, but frankly are we going to act like the current situation is the unequivocally better one?
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Sep 17, 2015 01:25
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computer parts posted:Maybe you should petition Russia to accept refugees. Russia should accept refugees, being another major participant, but I'm not sure why you posted this non sequitur.
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Sep 17, 2015 01:25
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Even ignoring my previous post, Russia should accept refugees on the basis that their UN Security Council votes mean they prefer the current situation. In which case they should commit to that and accept the people they're causing the diaspora of.
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Sep 17, 2015 01:30
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steinrokkan posted:Russia should accept refugees, being another major participant, but I'm not sure why you posted this non sequitur. Aren't you Danish? If you're so worked up about this, maybe you could work towards getting your own rear end-backwards country to do its share instead of posting shrill historically-illiterate complaints about how the US ruined the middle east. What you're doing right now is about as righteous as posting about how Lloyd George needs to change his mideast policy.
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Sep 17, 2015 02:18
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Arglebargle III posted:Aren't you Danish? If you're so worked up about this, maybe you could work towards getting your own rear end-backwards country to do its share instead of posting shrill historically-illiterate complaints about how the US ruined the middle east. What you're doing right now is about as righteous as posting about how Lloyd George needs to change his mideast policy. i'm Czech, and while my rear end-backwards country is being pissy about admitting refugees, at least it can argue with being relatively poor compared to the likes of, well, Denmark. Also my nation was no more autonomous than any one of the Arab countries at the time of Lloyd George's rule, being an involuntary subject of the Austrian Empire, so...
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Sep 17, 2015 02:24
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