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I got to drive a rental Yaris once and really liked it. What's the current feeling on those? Leaning towards just sinking some money into the Focus and keeping it. One door doesn't lock any more, the truck catch doesn't always catch and the whole mechanism needs to be replaced (so far hasn't totally blown, and I keep a bungie cord handy for the day it does.) It's got a few dings but nothing that impairs use. The resale value would be pitiful; my parents didn't use seat covers when they had a dog, and I've done stuff like spilled coffee on the seats or shoved a muddy adult bike in the trunk.
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Sep 15, 2015 02:08
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I don't want to turn this in to a bicycles vs cars flamewar butRisqueBarber posted:I've thought about biking to work but I live in Dallas where there is no such thing as bike lanes. Because I drive so little, your saying it would actually hurt the car(for example a srt8 challenger) if I don't drive it enough? I live 3.2 miles from work and bike to downtown Dallas every day. Are you way north near Richardson/Plano in the exurbs or something? poo poo, on the days I don't cycle, I probably walk .75 miles from the bus stop to my house. It probably takes more time to get in your car, get on the main road, drive to work, park, then walk in to the building than it does to walk the mile and a half. As a goon, you probably need the exercise anyways  And yeah Dallas has dedicated bike lanes on McCommas, Main Street, Houston St, Jackson st, plus the ~3 mile Katy Trail, 4 mile Santa Fe Trail, ~9 mile White Rock Creek trail, ~6 mile Cottonwood Trail, there's a ~15 mile bike path that runs about 90% of the way along the Red line on the DART rail all the way to Plano, they're finishing the last 10% this year. There's about 7 miles of paved bike path between Irving and downtown Dallas along the Trinity river. In the last two weeks they added marked bike lanes along Belmont, and Swiss has been marked since this time last year.
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Sep 15, 2015 04:25
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Twerk from Home posted:If you want a cool car in the $15k-$20k range, look at the Subaru BRZ / Scion FRS or 2011-2014 V6 Mustang, if you can find one with a stick and the performance package. The reason that $30k is the median new cars price is that only rich people tend to buy new cars now, and a huge % of new cars sold are pickup trucks in the $40k range and big family crossovers, both of which are more expensive than normal cars. 300hp is what a WRX STi or Evo has, but with less drivetrain loss. How is that "deeply uncool"? It may as well be an Enzo compared to my 100hp Fiesta. quote:Leaning towards just sinking some money into the Focus and keeping it. Do this. You can fix everything you list for under $200. Mechanically sound cars that aren't worth much or have exterior dings that you don't care about are the best cars to drive. quote:My 2010 corolla was stolen over the weekend and the insurance company wants to settle out and if the car is recovered it will go to them. I've never bought a car before. I bought this one from my aunt when I was in college so it was hassle free and it just got me from A to B. I'm 28 years old, single, live 1.5 miles away from work, and rarely go on road trips. I have no idea what I'm doing. All I know is what cars I think "look cool to drive" which are challengers, four door trucks, and jeeps. I kind of want to get a stick shift because it looks fun and I've never learned. I have no idea what I'm doing and I think sound like a 15 year old. Buy a used >$10k minivan, or a high mileage crew cab truck with bench seats if you hate minivans so much but really minivans are best, make friends, you're young and single, find 7 (6 with the truck) friends and go have kick rear end camping trips and/or drug fueled orgies in the desert. Which one are you going to remember more fondly 10 years down the road, the drug fueled orgies, or that new Mustang/BRZ that you sank all your money into and drove 1.5 miles to work every day? No one gives a poo poo about a 28 year old guy with a BRZ, not even in AI. Or depending on your home charging/state subsidy situation you could look into a plug-in EV. quote:So I'm currently looking for a new car and I hit one of those 'nonexistant market segments' things. Here's what I'm looking for: Have you driven the Golf Sportwagen? It has a turbo engine now. I think it's auto only which would be a deal killer for me but then you are looking at the CT200h. If you are looking at the 3GT, don't. Look at the 4GC instead. The 4 series is the "sporty" one with a (IIRC) wider track, lower sporty suspension, etc and it looks better. Also I think the 3GT is AWD only in the US? Don't buy an AWD BMW. COmedy option: VAG hatchback with nicer interior Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 04:36
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Throatwarbler posted:Have you driven the Golf Sportwagen? It has a turbo engine now. I think it's auto only which would be a deal killer for me but then you are looking at the CT200h. Haven't looked at the Jetta Sportwagen yet, might do that, although I imagine the Audi Allroad is basically just a souped up one of those. Mostly skipped it because I assumed it wouldn't be any nicer than my GTI. What's the problem with the BMW AWD? Not super familiar with the brand. Mostly leaning toward the wagon anyway, which the 4 series doesn't come in, but I'll throw the 4GT on the list. I would unironically drive a Panamera, but they start at like $75k in the states, so they are handily outside of my price range, so I luckily get to avoid embarassing myself. Edit: man the 4GC actually looks super nice, thanks for the suggestion! Falcon2001 fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 07:43
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Falcon2001 posted:What's the problem with the BMW AWD? Nothing, but what BMW does is give the xDrive models raised suspension, different shocks/springs, different steering etc that basically turn them into much shittier versions of the RWD cars. Some of the suspension changes might be to accomodate the front driveshafts and differential, or something. Unless you absolutely need AWD its best to get the RWD version. EDIT:It's not pertinent to you the new car buyer but the first thing all terrible BMW drivers do when they get their xi cars is lower the suspension. Well guess what the suspension is like that from the factory for a reason so 20k miles in their diff seals and driveshafts are all blown/prematurely worn. 335xidriver.txt Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 08:00
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Falcon2001 posted:They stopped those in 2014, so that's two model years ago at this point; I'd be hard pressed to find one new and I'd really rather not go CPO. Wish they were still making them though. Thought it was 2015. Oh well. That said, why? An acura TSX will basically run forever and a day with oil changes. I wouldn't even bother with the CPO. The problem you have is that you want a wagon in america and beggars can't be choosers. Your new choices are basically a Golf/Jetta Wagon (not lux enough?), A4 allroad thingy (expensive, audi), 3-series wagon (BMW options=lol), and E-class wagon (expensive). If you go a few more years back, you can get 5-series wagons, real A4 wagons plus the others in your price, plus the excellent TSX wagon and the decent CTS wagon. This is a place where used might get you way more car and arguably less hassle because gently caress finding a wagon on a new car dealer lot in YOOL 2015. If you do buy a new one though, good on you, if it is a stick give me a call in 5 years and I'll probably buy it
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Sep 15, 2015 08:06
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Throatwarbler posted:Have you driven the Golf Sportwagen? It has a turbo engine now. I think it's auto only edit: Still a five-speed. But looking at the shifter, it's still got reverse way up far-left by first, just a blank spot where sixth would go. 
Friar Zucchini fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 12:37
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Hadlock posted:I don't want to turn this in to a bicycles vs cars flamewar but When I was in Grapevine I couldn't make it to 1.5 miles in any direction without crossing a highway. I certainly couldn't make it to a grocery store. Dallas Fort Worth in general is not that bicycle friendly.
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Sep 15, 2015 15:21
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kitten posted:When I was in Grapevine I couldn't make it to 1.5 miles in any direction without crossing a highway. I certainly couldn't make it to a grocery store. Dallas Fort Worth in general is not that bicycle friendly. I know this pain deeply. Bicycling for transit in Texas is incredibly difficult. I only have two choices to travel north or south from my house without going several miles out of the way: A 60mph road with no shoulders in which I would have to claim a lane, or a limited access freeway that specifically prohibits bicycles. I've braved the 60mph road a couple of times, but it's a hair raising experience. People pass excessively close and honk loudly or throw poo poo. It's partially my fault for living in an area with no transit and car-focused infrastructure, but it's not even like I'm that far out. Texas just hates everyone except drivers.
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Sep 15, 2015 15:40
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Hadlock posted:I don't want to turn this in to a bicycles vs cars flamewar but My bike route would take me down Ross into downtown. Doesn't hurt to try, now I don't only need to buy a car but also a bike. Back to cars... Right now I'm looking at Challengers, FRS's, Mustangs, and G37's. Since no one really addressed it, what websites should I shop at and is the marketplace thread a good place to get AI goon's opinions on the sales of the cars?
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Sep 15, 2015 15:48
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So we've started test driving all the options. Drove two Xterras last night (Nissan dealer is super close) including a Pro-4x and it did nothing to dissuade us from one. We loved the drat thing, really nice road manners, but ugh that mileage. Plus we drove brand new models, which we very much cannot afford. Next up is the Prius, and the gf wants to go check out the Subarus just to cover our bases. I'm trying to think of ways to talk her out of the Jeep Liberty. I find them wholly lackluster and if she REALLY wants a box SUV the Xterra is much preferable to the Liberty. Anyone have experiences with the late model Liberty?
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Sep 15, 2015 16:47
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The liberty is why the cherokee was so anticipated. Because it was replacing an utter POS not worthy of the name. At least it isn't a patriot.
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Sep 15, 2015 17:08
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nm posted:Thought it was 2015. Oh well. Yeah, honestly I'm buying new since I had a history of car problems when I was broke and my work requires me to be punctual and reliable - an acura or lexus will probably run forever on oil changes, but I still would rather pay more and know the whole history/etc and have everything under warranty for those first few worry free years. That being said, you're totally right, so I'm going to weigh my limited options - but I think that the CT200 is probably going to be fine.
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Sep 15, 2015 17:19
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My wife and I are moving across country for a new job in the Atlanta, Georgia metro area. Work is shipping my car (2011 VW GTI) but we don't think it's worth shipping her 2006 Ford Focus with 95k miles. That leaves us needing to buy my wife a new car once we get there! Proposed Budget: Ideally, ~$20,000, but we could wiggle a little bit for the right car New or Used: New Body Style: 4 door, either sedan or wagon, or hatchbacks that don't look too "hatchback-y." Nothing that looks boxy. How will you be using the car?: This will be my wife's car for likely the next 10 years. We don't have kids yet, but we probably will have a couple before she sells it. We're looking for a workhorse, do-everything sort of normal car used to run errands, go to school, go to work, yadda yadda. What aspects are most important to you?: I want a good car that will last 10 years with minimal issues. My wife is horrible about maintaining her car, or noticing with something is breaking, so think of this as car-as-appliance. Visibility and safety are important. I know she would like something that drives better than her Ford Focus, but that would literally be any car; she likes the way my mom's Outback drives, and she loved driving her aunt's Mustang. My wife really wants a compact car, as she doesn't like "big" cars. We went to a car show a year ago, and her favorites were the Subaru Impreza and the Hyundai Elantra. She also really likes the looks of the Mazda 3, and of the Jetta; though she likes my GTI, she doesn't want a Golf. Thanks in advance for advice! e: Forgot one thing: The car needs to be an automatic, if that matters. alakath fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Sep 15, 2015 |
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Sep 15, 2015 20:12
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alakath posted:My wife and I are moving across country for a new job in the Atlanta, Georgia metro area. Work is shipping my car (2011 VW GTI) but we don't think it's worth shipping her 2006 Ford Focus with 95k miles. That leaves us needing to buy my wife a new car once we get there! My wife and I recently went through this basic search, slightly higher budget for her car and ended up buying a 2015 Civic sedan with the highest trim - here's my impressions of the cars I looked at. Hyundai Elantra Felt pretty cheap inside, and cramped, even for my 5'1" wife. I think they do a decent job of adding features/etc for parity, but we didn't like the interior much. I'll just flat out warn that Volkswagens have a reputation for being very expensive to keep on the road past warranty time vs the price of the car. I've enjoyed my GTI but I'd pass on the Jetta/etc unless someone else here can refute that, but I've seen that warning pop up everywhere. I would highly suggest checking out the new Ford Focus, which was our runner up choice. The new ones are really nice and well equipped for a small car and if I had been picking, we would have gotten it. The last few years have been really good for Ford. My wife seriously disliked the Mazda 3 and discounted it within a few minutes of the test drive, but that might be a personal thing - she hated the really soft brakes and weird steering. So that's my thoughts at least. The Focus or Fiesta is probably a really, really solid choice in this class unless (again) something happened in the last year since we bought her car.
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Sep 15, 2015 20:25
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Throatwarbler posted:Do this. You can fix everything you list for under $200. Mechanically sound cars that aren't worth much or have exterior dings that you don't care about are the best cars to drive. Okay, so anyone on Vancouver Island want to come teach me how to fix that poo poo for under $200? The service centre told me both required ordering in parts, and that it'd be around $600 for both, at least.
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Sep 15, 2015 23:42
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Falcon2001 posted:Yeah, honestly I'm buying new since I had a history of car problems when I was broke and my work requires me to be punctual and reliable - an acura or lexus will probably run forever on oil changes, but I still would rather pay more and know the whole history/etc and have everything under warranty for those first few worry free years. I mean I understand your desire, but the problem is that going slightly used gives you such a better selection of arguably better cars. It is kind of a weird thing. If you do buy a new station wagon and it comes in a stick, get the stick. As far as I can tell manual wagons basically don't lose value because wagon wanters all want manuals and won't buy new cars because reasons.
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Sep 16, 2015 00:29
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Doesn't Volvo make some sporty ~30k wagons? e. the V60 is $36k... alakath posted:My wife and I are moving across country for a new job in the Atlanta, Georgia metro area. Work is shipping my car (2011 VW GTI) but we don't think it's worth shipping her 2006 Ford Focus with 95k miles. That leaves us needing to buy my wife a new car once we get there! Shipping the focus will cost you a hell of a lot less than $20k! And that car is likely good for another 200k miles. Buy a new car anyway if that's what you want, of course. I'm just saying, this is a pretty transparent rationalisation. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 08:36
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Pixelante posted:Okay, so anyone on Vancouver Island want to come teach me how to fix that poo poo for under $200? The service centre told me both required ordering in parts, and that it'd be around $600 for both, at least. Ebay the parts, and learn by doing. This is the kind of stuff where assembly is the reverse of disassembly. Take pictures of every step as you take things apart, if you're really worried. This isn't the kind of work where you can screw things up catastrophically. I figure the worst disaster you could cause would be a broken window. You were going to retire a car because the door wouldn't lock? Hell, there's a chance your trunk latch problem would be solved with some WD-40.
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Sep 16, 2015 09:32
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Leperflesh posted:Shipping the focus will cost you a hell of a lot less than $20k! And that car is likely good for another 200k miles. Agreed. If you just want to buy a new car and can afford it, then that's all the reason you need. Just be honest with yourself and us rather than rationalizing the expensive option. In the strictly BFC sense, shipping the Focus and driving it into the ground will be A LOT cheaper. But I can understand why you wouldn't want to keep driving a 10 year old Focus for 100k-200k more miles.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:50
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VideoTapir posted:Ebay the parts, and learn by doing. This is the kind of stuff where assembly is the reverse of disassembly. Take pictures of every step as you take things apart, if you're really worried. This isn't the kind of work where you can screw things up catastrophically. I figure the worst disaster you could cause would be a broken window. Also previewing what you're attempting with youtube is great to avoid breaking little plastic retainers and other hidden things.
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Sep 16, 2015 17:49
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alakath posted:My wife and I are moving across country for a new job in the Atlanta, Georgia metro area. Work is shipping my car (2011 VW GTI) but we don't think it's worth shipping her 2006 Ford Focus with 95k miles. That leaves us needing to buy my wife a new car once we get there My wife and I have one kid right now and she enjoyed driving her 2013 Civic around. However we have a second kid on the way so we just got a Honda CR-V and I can tell you that thing is sooooo much better for hauling around the kid/carseat/everything else that comes with a toddler than the Civic it's not even funny. If you're really going into this for the long haul and plan on two kids I'd suggest going for something along those lines rather than another compact car because I can't imagine it being easy dealing with two kids and their carseats and all their junk in a small car like that. There's a reason pretty much every family you see has an SUV. As a bonus the CR-V drives more like a car than a truck and she's getting around 30 mpg with it so all in all it's not a huge drain compared to something else.
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Sep 16, 2015 18:31
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Leperflesh posted:Doesn't Volvo make some sporty ~30k wagons? gently caress, I forgot about volvo, just like the rest of america. Maybe if they have us more than 12 swedish racing green polestars we'd pay more attention. The v60 is a good car though, check it out. If you can get a polestar, buy it and come to AI where we can all fawn over it.
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Sep 16, 2015 19:10
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nm posted:gently caress, I forgot about volvo, just like the rest of america. Maybe if they have us more than 12 swedish racing green polestars we'd pay more attention. The Twin engine XC90 looks pretty cool too, but I don't think it would be fun to own from 80k miles onward.
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Sep 16, 2015 19:21
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Leperflesh posted:Shipping the focus will cost you a hell of a lot less than $20k! And that car is likely good for another 200k miles. Good point. It IS rationalizing something that will ultimately be more expensive, but my wife's been wanting a new car for a while anyway. This seems like as good a time as any to do it, especially since the car is bluebooked at like $3k but it would cost ~$1k to ship. Guinness posted:I can understand why you wouldn't want to keep driving a 10 year old Focus for 100k-200k more miles. Also this. The car probably could last another 100k miles, but it already drives like garbage. CFox posted:Look at the CR-V! That's a good point about car seats. I've been trying to get her to look at smallish SUVs/CUVs, given her dislike of larger cars. I'm thinking I'll make her try the CR-V, the HR-V, the CX-3, and the Forester? e: And maybe the Juke? I've never been a big Nissan fan, but it seems to get good reviews. Falcon2001 posted:2015 Civic sedan or the new Ford Focus I'll make sure she looks at the Civic. I used to have an RSX and I loved it, Honda makes great cars. She dislikes the digital speedometer thingy, but maybe once she drives it she can look past it? Re: the new Focus, we felt like the backseat was super cramped when we sat it in at an auto show. But we should probably look at it again; people seem to love them. alakath fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 19:42
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alakath posted:Re: the new Focus, we felt like the backseat was super cramped when we sat it in at an auto show. But we should probably look at it again; people seem to love them. The backseat is super cramped, it's not just you. Probably worst in class at backseat livability, but it's pretty solid everywhere else and way cheaper than a Mazda 3.
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Sep 16, 2015 19:49
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Crosspost from AI: My wife and I are looking into replacing her 2013 Kia Optima SXL with something a little bit bigger. We have a toddler now, and may be adding another drooling poo poo machine to the family sooner or later. After spending weeks of whittling down our options, we've come to one conclusion: we both really love and want a Dodge Durango R/T We cross shopped it with an Explorer Sport, Kia Sorento SXL 3.3l, and an Acura MDX(which ended up being the runner up to the durango) We found an example locally that 100% fits the bill. Being that this is for my wife she wants a very specific set of specifications for a replacement vehicle... Roomy(3 row), Sporty, the ability to add rear entertainment, black or dark grey. The local example is a 2015 local trade that was only in service for about a month and has a little over 5k miles. It's "dodge certified preowned" which tacks on an additional 3 month/3,000 mile warranty as well as bumping the powertrain warranty to 7 year/100k. This will also be the most expensive vehicle we've ever bought as a family. Our payments should be right between $625-$650, depending on APR, but this is only $25-$50/month more than what i pay for the kia(We pay additional every month to help bring down the principal) All i'm asking for is a sanity check. is this a bad idea? are we making a financial gently caress up? or is the dodge a great vehicle in it's segment and we're going to have a ton of fun on roadtrips hauling rear end around the state/country... a few notes: yes, we are upside down on the kia by a few thousand which doesn't give me too much indigestion right now... pricing on the Durango is $38,400. it's optioned with sunroof, 2nd row captains chairs, 2nd row center console, 8.4AN nav system
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Sep 16, 2015 21:47
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How long is the loan? Why is there a used 2015 for sale? I'm nervious about those as they can easly be pre-lemon process buybacks (if a company buys back a car before the lemon process, they can sell it as a non-lemon buyback, reducing the loss they take cause they can sell it unnoticed.) nm fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 21:50
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"In service for a month" and over 5000 miles and now it's back up for sale? I would definitely want to know why... all of those things.
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Sep 16, 2015 22:09
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getfuct posted:All i'm asking for is a sanity check. is this a bad idea? are we making a financial gently caress up? or is the dodge a great vehicle in it's segment and we're going to have a ton of fun on roadtrips hauling rear end around the state/country... Regarding the financial side of this, you "OR-ing" these two things is a bad sign with regards to your reasoning, as they're on two completely different spectrums. One is "How much car can I afford?". The other is "What car [that I can afford] do I want?". If you don't solve the first problem accurately and honestly (with yourselves), your answer to the second becomes meaningless garbage. Have you worked out your best estimate as to how much actual disposable monthly income you have? That is to say, your combined monthly income minus : -monthly bills -monthly necessities and luxuries you don't intend to give up -annual or sporadic expenses (dentists, registration, property taxes if you have any, Christmas spending etc.) estimated honestly and expressed as a monthly average -any savings you want to be doing for child expenses When all of the above is worked out, and you have a sufficient emergency fund set aside (which as babby protectors is even more of an onus on the two of you), does the remainder comfortably accommodate $650/month on a car? Also, if you CAN afford a monthly payment that large, the question is begged as to how you ended up upside down on a mid-range car loan and unable to quickly dig it out. With a low enough APR anyone might reasonably make use of a loan, but nobody with that much disposable income needs to be in debt overall.
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Sep 16, 2015 22:26
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What engine does it have.
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Sep 16, 2015 22:26
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euphronius posted:What engine does it have. R/T implies the 5.7. 360 hp, 390 torque I believe.
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Sep 16, 2015 22:29
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Twerk from Home posted:R/T implies the 5.7. 360 hp, 390 torque I believe. Make sure to consider the insurance premium this will command.
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Sep 16, 2015 23:29
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IMHO the V6 pentastar would be fine for the Durango with better mpg.
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Sep 16, 2015 23:33
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Remy Marathe posted:Regarding the financial side of this, you "OR-ing" these two things is a bad sign with regards to your reasoning, as they're on two completely different spectrums. One is "How much car can I afford?". The other is "What car [that I can afford] do I want?". If you don't solve the first problem accurately and honestly (with yourselves), your answer to the second becomes meaningless garbage. financially we're fine as far as the "why are you upside down" comment... it's a kia. not only is it a kia, it is one of the top-model kias. they lose value faster than a something in a something...
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Sep 16, 2015 23:43
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getfuct posted:financially we're fine No one cares why your car is upside down. We want to know why someone bought a new car, drove 5000, and gave it back after a month at either a substantial loss or because it was a lemon and dodge gave them a new one.
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Sep 16, 2015 23:47
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getfuct posted:financially we're fine Ah, I read your indigestion comment as sarcasm and thought you were stressing it. So you could easily get the loan right-side-up if you felt like it. nm posted:No one cares why your car is upside down.
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Sep 16, 2015 23:56
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nm posted:No one cares why your car is upside down. Actually the post i quoted asked just that, why i was upside down, so don't be a dick. it's unnecessary. My understanding is that the people who originally bought the car decided that they needed 2 cars, not just one. so they traded it in at the dealership. from what i can tell from the carfax, there isn't any history of anything wierd. Grumpwagon posted:Make sure to consider the insurance premium this will command. $25/year more than the kia.
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Sep 17, 2015 02:04
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CFox posted:My wife and I have one kid right now and she enjoyed driving her 2013 Civic around. However we have a second kid on the way so we just got a Honda CR-V and I can tell you that thing is sooooo much better for hauling around the kid/carseat/everything else that comes with a toddler than the Civic it's not even funny. If you're really going into this for the long haul and plan on two kids I'd suggest going for something along those lines rather than another compact car because I can't imagine it being easy dealing with two kids and their carseats and all their junk in a small car like that. There's a reason pretty much every family you see has an SUV. As a bonus the CR-V drives more like a car than a truck and she's getting around 30 mpg with it so all in all it's not a huge drain compared to something else. I will second every aspect of this. I didn't want a crossover but we realized that between the increasing maintenance costs and being tired of having the passenger seat 100% forward, we wanted to replace our '07 Mazdaspeed3. The first time we hopped in the CR-V with the giant baby-bucket in the center of the back seat and realized we could both keep our seats as far back as we wanted, we were sold.
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Sep 17, 2015 02:15
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getfuct posted:Actually the post i quoted asked just that, why i was upside down, so don't be a dick. it's unnecessary. Fair enough. That sounds a lot like "old lady only drove it to church on sunday" though. If you do buy it, I would get it PPIed with a fine tooth comb. Do they have full service records? Remember that with 5000mi, there's enough on there to blame PO for maintenance/abuse an try to deny warranty cover.
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Sep 17, 2015 02:34
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