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He's agreeing to take a token number of refugees from camps which is very easy to do, and he can pick and choose, he's not at all willing to do anything about the people crowding European ports and borders trying to gain access. It looks good if you don't think about it and doesn't at all address the issue everyone else is having trouble with. He is not at all concerned with the refugee crisis beyond what he has to do in order to assuage public opinion. Until the pictures were published, even the very same morning, his position was "gently caress off we're full". Now it's "gently caress off we're full except for these few people we will heroically rescue and photograph so it looks good".
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Sep 18, 2015 01:25
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Venom Snake posted:The thing is that systems are already in place to deal with refugee's that work. It's just that certain people want to shut those down because there is an actual significant number of refugees. But to try and frame the argument that the incredibly rich EU (talking about core countries here not Croatia or Greece) can't afford to house refugee's is insane. The narrative that the refugee's are all extremist Muslim hill people is also retarded and insane because a large portion of the Syrian and Iraqi refugee's are fleeing religious extremism. Venom Snake posted:There are refugee's from more than just Syria dude, and they deserve help to. IMO all refugee's should be allowed in and helped. Even assuming the resources to deal with that sort of population influx are in place, and assuming that all the refugees are actually willing and able to integrate successfully into their new societies, how would you screen out economic migrants and bad actors without strict control and processing? Venom Snake posted:If they aren't committing a crime who gives a hot gently caress if they are "extreme". And again, oppressing muslims (like any religion) only makes them more radical not less. If you think just ignoring this crisis is a good idea you sure must love terrorism.
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Sep 18, 2015 01:40
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It's cool how social mobility suddenly becomes evil when nonwhites try to do it.
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Sep 18, 2015 01:41
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Dead Reckoning posted:So where does Europe's obligation to resettle people end? Why would it end, as long as there are refugees? quote:Is it only for true refugees, or does it extend to economic migrants too? Only for those who reach Europe, or does it extend to everyone in a refugee camp? All who benefit from the deliberate holding down of poor people have an obligation to sacrifice until their circumstances are equal. To hold yourself above others in more desperate circumstances than yourself and complain about barriers to making you equal is an evil.
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Sep 18, 2015 02:05
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Effectronica posted:It's cool how social mobility suddenly becomes evil when nonwhites try to do it. "Capital can move so why can't people?!" "gently caress off, we're full."
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Sep 18, 2015 02:05
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computer parts posted:"Capital can move so why can't people?!" Movement across contiguous borders should be free, yes.
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Sep 18, 2015 02:08
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Volkerball posted:The proposal was to go get them and bring them to England, which is obviously much more difficult than just accepting people who make it to Europe. The most at risk people are the ones who are refugees in neighboring countries, and many don't have the means to pay for smugglers, or can't afford to put their own life at risk or stop their flow of income for even a moment to actually attempt to make it to Europe. Don't forget that the people drowning are risking it all to escape not just Syria, but the living conditions as a refugee in the middle east. It's an extremely important part of this debate, and bringing that up is very positive. Although now I'm having a hard time finding that it was Camerons idea, which is how I first saw it presented. This is a fair point, but the major element of why this has finally been considered a crisis (despite it being a crisis for years) is that the desperate ones who crossed the seas to Greece have led to a situation where those desperate have escaped a lovely life in camps to potentially starve to death because what they were promised by smugglers wasn't true. Cameron hasn't offered anything to solve Greece's aid crisis.
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Sep 18, 2015 02:14
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SedanChair posted:All who benefit from the deliberate holding down of poor people have an obligation to sacrifice until their circumstances are equal. To hold yourself above others in more desperate circumstances than yourself and complain about barriers to making you equal is an evil. We must start with the middle class, of course.
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Sep 18, 2015 02:15
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Tesseraction posted:This is a fair point, but the major element of why this has finally been considered a crisis (despite it being a crisis for years) is that the desperate ones who crossed the seas to Greece have led to a situation where those desperate have escaped a lovely life in camps to potentially starve to death because what they were promised by smugglers wasn't true. Cameron hasn't offered anything to solve Greece's aid crisis. No, it's pretty clearly because it stopped being the Middle Easts problem and started being the Wests when people started showing up en masse. It may sound cynical, but if people weren't dying in the ocean coming to Europe, and just continued dying of starvation and freezing in the Middle East, no one would give a poo poo. And while European policy has been pretty lovely, particularly in the hot spots like Spain and Greece, the process still had to be upheld. If you made it into Europe, you couldn't just be shipped right back immediately. It bought you time to try and work your way out of those countries and into someplace else where you could request asylum. And local activists jumped right in and did a great job of helping people in refugee centers with their day to day needs, despite flimsy government support. It was much easier for people to help refugees there because of the large ratio of Greeks to refugees. Compare that to Lebanon, where 1/6th of the population are Syrian refugees. The support networks are stretched much thinner, and the majority of refugees can't even get into a camp to be mistreated in, forced to try their luck undocumented on the streets.
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Sep 18, 2015 02:30
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Tesseraction posted:Which basic economic principle? The principle that resources are finite.
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Sep 18, 2015 03:07
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:The principle that resources are finite. On the contrary, the universe has not been established as closed, or as a finite flat/open curvature, so this statement is quite possibly wrong.
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Sep 18, 2015 03:14
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:The principle that resources are finite. Finite, but in the case of Europe and the United States, abundant, and more than enough to settle the refugee crisis. e: Also despite being ultimately finite, a country's resources can grow and shrink. Refugees themselves are human resources and with proper handling could be an economic boon. Red and Black fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 04:54
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mobby_6kl posted:No, "europe" doesn't have a military, police, or prisons. Well actually... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Gendarmerie_Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocorps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU_Battlegroup Prisons, maybe not. But that's the easiest part to arrange.
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Sep 18, 2015 05:18
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Dead Reckoning posted:So where does Europe's obligation to resettle people end? Is it only for true refugees, or does it extend to economic migrants too? Only for those who reach Europe, or does it extend to everyone in a refugee camp? quote:“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
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Sep 18, 2015 05:20
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Pimpmust posted:Well actually... The question is if you can use those structures for something that is probably going to be pretty politically divisive though compared to using national/local forces. Anyway, I don't think it is in doubt that this is a moral and humanitarian issue, and at the same time, it is almost certain the far-right is going to continue to capitalize on it. You can see this already happening especially in Eastern Europe. The most likely outcome is that Europe will change their asylum policy more than they already have without any real way to address the actual crisis itself. (Syria itself probably doesn't have a solution at this point to begin with.) Ardennes fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 05:25
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Hey if people are dying by the hundreds of thousands* in some far off camps/battlefield it's a "tragedy", if they are knocking on your door it's a real bother n' all. Shoo shoo mr refugee man, can't you see I'm building a fence here  *Or shitcanned in some camp/other country as noncitizens for a decade or more if they survive. But hey, the Palestinians will have plenty of company.
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Sep 18, 2015 05:31
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SickZip posted:Muslim communities that were colonized or the colonizer, that were under foreign rulers for centuries or a couple decades or never, that have been under dictatorships or democracies, that have been rich or poor, that have been exploited or exploiters, that are still in the middle-east or abroad, that have had dictators held in place by foreign power or removed by foreign powers. A diverse set of histories and conditions and they all keep slouching toward the same pathologies, that other countries with similar or worse conditions seems to avoid. Can you notice the trend? We abandon regimes or support regimes, do too little or too much, provide aid or impose sanctions, or maybe we do nothing at all and any of these actions becomes appropriated as The Real Reason for sectarian violence, ethnic cleansing, and violent oppression. Must the Middle-East be hermetically sealed before anything can be their fault, before we look at the widespread ideology that all these countries just coincidentally happen to share? Yes, and that ideology is authoritarian capitalism. Syria is an authoritarian capitalist state. Iraq is a corrupt capitalist state buoyed and torn apart by colonial interests. If you're dumb, you actually meant Islam with that. These sectarian conflicts always express baser economic struggles. Shi'as and Sunnis don't fight because of theology, they fight because the other has usually all the power. And sectarian struggles are inseparable from colonial interests. NBC News posted:"I will not fight with the Hashad," one Sunni tribal fighter said in an interview with NBC News, using the Arabic name for the Popular Mobilization Units. "They … take their orders from Iran. It's a shame on me if I fight next to an Iranian." It doesn't matter where the sectarian divides started "originally," because they still express capital and colonial interests. They cannot be considered without them. And the West has absolutely no moral superiority against Islamic extremism. Because we support it. We openly approve of a violent theocracy that supports sectarian conflicts. Getting to yout point, what we can do morally is approve migrants, who face the same struggles we do, and make them follow European values while/if they stay here. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 05:36
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Saros posted:I was astounded by how much a picture of a dead syrian child has moved public opinion. It hasn't changed as much as it might seem on the surface. Take this poll, made about 2 days after the pictures of the drowned boy were shown and feelings were at their highest. Even then, the anti immigration feelings were the majority, and I'm getting the impression the public has already become bored of the migrant crisis. Also consider, the anti immigration petition has gained over 175 thousand signatures, easily enough to be debated in Parliament. Cameron's response is designed to calm the vocal members of the public, while actually doing very little. The billions of pounds sound like a lot, until you learn its all funds that were already planned for international aid before the crisis. The 20 thousand women and children that they're planning to take sounds ludicrously generous coming from the Tories, considering Labour wanted to take 10 thousand. Until you notice it's 20k spread over the next five years, and Labour wanted to take 10 thousand a month. It's a distraction, and it seems it's working.
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Sep 18, 2015 05:46
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It's funny to see right-wingers itt recognize that the resources for the entire earth's population to have a first world standard of living don't and can't exist, but instead of coming to the obvious conclusion: that we need to live sustainably within our means for the good of humanity, it's "send the Arabs back to die in bombed out cities, force most of humanity to live in squalor so I can have the latest luxuries!"
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Sep 18, 2015 06:01
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Chomskyan posted:Finite, but in the case of Europe and the United States, abundant, and more than enough to settle the refugee crisis. Yeah, I don't understand why the United States still has problems that could be hypothetically solved with enough money. Why aren't we solving all the problems? VitalSigns posted:It's funny to see right-wingers itt recognize that the resources for the entire earth's population to have a first world standard of living don't and can't exist, but instead of coming to the obvious conclusion: that we need to live sustainably within our means for the good of humanity, it's "send the Arabs back to die in bombed out cities, force most of humanity to live in squalor so I can have the latest luxuries!" Even people living in North Korea and the slums of Mumbai don't want to live like North Koreans or Mumbai slum dwellers. If you're going to start going on about planetary level resource allocation, "give everyone an equal share and let them do as they will, population increase will allow us to more efficiently extract resources" is probably the worst way to go about it. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 06:38
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Why do we have to solve planetary-wide resource allocation problems before we give homes to people fleeing bombed-out homes in numbers that are a rounding error of Europe's population. Yeah okay housing refugees doesn't solve all the world's other problems, but sending them back to die from artillery or be imprisoned in tent camps for the rest of your lives doesn't solve all those problems either so what's the point of bringing it up except to distract from the real question of what to do with people showing up on our doorsteps with no homes and no place to go back to?
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Sep 18, 2015 07:15
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VitalSigns posted:Why do we have to solve planetary-wide resource allocation problems before we give homes to people fleeing bombed-out homes in numbers that are a rounding error of Europe's population. I basically agree with you, but we're talking about somewhere on the order of nine million people. It's a lot more than a rounding error.
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Sep 18, 2015 07:55
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Arglebargle III posted:It's a little amazing how in this thread people are so vitriolic about the US, which realistically has very little purchase on the situation in Syria or the European refugee crisis, and not about Russia, which is arming and training and materially supporting Assad's forces. I mean by all means criticize your own country first, and I'm happy to admit the sins of the US in the middle east generally, but in this case there's little the US could do beyond attacking Assad militarily, and nobody wants that. Europeans blaming the US is a little rich when Russia has boots on the ground in Syria. Russia would return those people to Syria. e: At the very least, the "real Syrian" propaganda is about how the Syrian people need help to return to their homeland instead of being stuck with the evil Westerners. my dad fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 08:20
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The blue eyed naivety in this thread is awesome to behold! Please keep going! Syrians make a fraction of the people coming to Europe, and even they seem to be quite thankless when they get here
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Sep 18, 2015 09:07
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Volkerball posted:No, it's pretty clearly because it stopped being the Middle Easts problem and started being the Wests when people started showing up en masse. It may sound cynical, but if people weren't dying in the ocean coming to Europe, and just continued dying of starvation and freezing in the Middle East, no one would give a poo poo. I partially agree, but you're ignoring that there's been reports of refugees drowning for months. Our most widely-circulated newspaper referred to the drowning migrants as 'cockroaches' (since removed after Aylan Kurdi's drowning but proudly displayed online until then) and British holiday-goers were openly complaining about all the refugees on the Greek islands ruining their view of the beach. Britain has been aware of the issue for a while, but public opinion was very much 'bomb the boats so they stay where they belong' as opposed to not knowing about the situation. Volkerball posted:And while European policy has been pretty lovely, particularly in the hot spots like Spain and Greece, the process still had to be upheld. If you made it into Europe, you couldn't just be shipped right back immediately. It bought you time to try and work your way out of those countries and into someplace else where you could request asylum. And local activists jumped right in and did a great job of helping people in refugee centers with their day to day needs, despite flimsy government support. It was much easier for people to help refugees there because of the large ratio of Greeks to refugees. Compare that to Lebanon, where 1/6th of the population are Syrian refugees. The support networks are stretched much thinner, and the majority of refugees can't even get into a camp to be mistreated in, forced to try their luck undocumented on the streets. This part I don't disagree with, though.
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Sep 18, 2015 09:11
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:The principle that resources are finite. That's a very vague definition of the principle. One can fully accept that resources are finite without necessarily suggesting we are anywhere close to that limit. And in fact the majority of Western European countries are absolutely not close to that limit, having an abundance of resources that some of our neighbours could only dream of. The United Kingdom in particular wastes vast amounts of basically every resource commonly consumed. Ligur posted:Syrians make a fraction of the people coming to Europe, and even they seem to be quite thankless when they get here Ah yes and now the sand people are ungrateful. I wonder why the starving homeless people whose houses were bombed and their friends killed aren't kissing our feet because we grudgingly handed them a blanket after they struggled for hundreds of miles in squalor.
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Sep 18, 2015 09:43
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Tesseraction posted:That's a very vague definition of the principle. One can fully accept that resources are finite without necessarily suggesting we are anywhere close to that limit. And in fact the majority of Western European countries are absolutely not close to that limit, having an abundance of resources that some of our neighbours could only dream of. The United Kingdom in particular wastes vast amounts of basically every resource commonly consumed. The question is how those resources are allocated, and whether they can be reallocated under our current market structure. Germany and Sweden still have financial resources, so it makes sense for them to shoulder a heavier burden but if you talk about Southern and Eastern Europe there is going to be much more disagreement especially the Eurozone crisis is still having an impact.
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Sep 18, 2015 09:49
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SickZip posted:Muslim communities that were colonized or the colonizer, . . . Must the Middle-East be hermetically sealed before anything can be their fault, before we look at the widespread ideology that all these countries just coincidentally happen to share? Oman has had zero people run to join Daesh. Iran has had zero people join Daesh. If you're complaining about Wahhabism then you can blame Saudi Arabia, who are heavily financed by the United States, and pass those finances on to groups like Daesh. Know who else came from Saudi Arabia? Osama bin Laden. If you're going to blame an ideology blame Wahhabism, Saudi Arabia's second-larged export after oil.
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Sep 18, 2015 09:50
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Ardennes posted:The question is how those resources are allocated, and whether they can be reallocated under our current market structure. Germany and Sweden still have financial resources, so it makes sense for them to shoulder a heavier burden but if you talk about Southern and Eastern Europe there is going to be much more disagreement especially the Eurozone crisis is still having an impact. I agree. Europe as a whole is rich and abundant enough to do this, but the post-Communist countries in particular will indeed struggle.
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Sep 18, 2015 09:52
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Smudgie Buggler posted:I basically agree with you, but we're talking about somewhere on the order of nine million people. It's a lot more than a rounding error. Compared to 400 million Europeans, it is. Providing houses for 2% of the people in Europe is not going to bankrupt anyone (well unless the EU just decides to make Hungary take them all), but people are talking like it's that You Give A Mouse A Cookie book and now we'll have one billion Indians and another billion Chinese show up next week somehow pretending to be Syrians or whatever slippery slope the xenophobes think housing homeless refugees leads to.
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Sep 18, 2015 09:58
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Ligur posted:The blue eyed naivety in this thread is awesome to behold! You piece of poo poo, come down to the Balkans and walk to a column of refugees with me, give them a bottle of water and watch their reaction. And yes, most of them are Syrians or Afghans.
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Sep 18, 2015 10:05
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Ligur, I forget if you're directly involved or armchair-strategizing from an ocean away. I think I've already said that this crisis will have an impact on my life, a direct impact, not some nebulous "sense of insecurity" or "erosion of values" but actual real impact, so I'm not terribly worried about being right or wrong, I just want to get a realistic idea of how serious the crisis is and how prepared we are Let's recap. There's a refugee crisis. We have to take the refugees in, and I don't see an alternative. The reaction of the affected countries has been slow and stupid, despite the crisis having gone on for years at this point (reminder that tiny Lebanon currently hosts more refugees than, IIRC, the whole EU combined). I have my own ideas on how it should have been handled, what are yours? Or do you have an argument for not taking in refugees? Mid-term: the refugees have to be hosted somewhere while they're processed. Where and how? Alternatively, if we decided to turn them back in the previous step, how do we make them stay away? Do we move them elsewhere? If yes, where and how? Long-term: some refugees will want to settle in their host country. Do we want to let them? If we do: can we afford it? Are there places for them to live? (tons, but in private hands that keep them empty because renting them out would be unprofitable) Are there jobs for them? (doubtful; rampant privatization means that states can't create e.g. infrastructure jobs like they could before) Will they be a burden on the welfare system? (who knows) Will they  integrate? (highly doubtful IMO, European countries are not the USA; "being Italian" means having Italian ancestors, not subscribing to non-existent "Italian ideals and values")Say we decide they cannot settle. How long do we keep them? Where do we take them afterwards and how? Say we previously decided to turn them back outright (this is impossible given than even countries oceans away are taking some refugees, but whatever). Say, more realistically, that we instituted entry quotas. How far back do we take border controls? Greece? Turkey? will they collaborate? will they accept help? (can we help?) Or we just say gently caress them? (unrealistic but possible) What do we do about sea borders? Where will we send them back to? How can we ensure whatever intervention won't create future enemies? Military intervention: yes, no? where? how? You have to admit European armies are poo poo and for various reasons and to some degree intentionally so. Do we improve the military? will it be a net positive in the long term or just a money hole? can we even improve the military without making them fight wars? (do European countries want to fight wars?) None of these are, strictly, rhetorical questions, but yes, I am skeptical of some of the answers I anticipate
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Sep 18, 2015 10:05
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hackbunny posted:Ligur, I forget if you're directly involved or armchair-strategizing from an ocean away. He's Finnish. He's far far away from the situation and is perfectly happy that way.
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Sep 18, 2015 10:18
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Tesseraction posted:He's Finnish. He's far far away from the situation and is perfectly happy that way. Umm there are refugees coming into Finland too. I'm Finnish and I disagree with him but let's not pretend this isn't an European problem as a whole, even if it's just like three countries actually picking up the slack.
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Sep 18, 2015 10:20
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SaltyJesus posted:You piece of poo poo, come down to the Balkans and walk to a column of refugees with me, give them a bottle of water and watch their reaction. There's a steady stream of news from Sweden and now in Finland when the "refugees" do not accept the housing and food they are given. Just today a Swedish paper reported a bunch of Syrians refuse to leave the bus that took them to the migrant center the Swedish somehow managed to whip up for them, in the middle of the huge flood of asylum seekers they are struggling to handle, because they want better. (FYI, in Finland the migrant crisis is sold as "... but the Syrian war" yet we receive almost no Syrians.) I hope you can see why it sometimes seems a little absurd, yes? On the first hand, they are supposedly escaping immediate personal threat of death and torture (not even war, according to UNHCR a country in war doesn't make someone a refugee) but on the second hand, when they get to a Nordic country they sometimes act as if they are entitled to much more than housing, food, healthcare and safety up to a point they want to dictate where, how and what city they are housed in. Today a bunch if Iraqis in Finland, who were welcomed to a new center after escaping the horror, tortures and total war that is Sweden, simply refused to stay because they want to a "big city" and started walking. Of course, I understand, the smugglers have probably sold these people a whole bunch of lies about how they will live like kings, get a good job and a nice apartment from a large city in no time once they get here and the truth is they are ferried into a remote immigrant center to wait for bureacracy. I would be pissed as well. edit: DarkCrawler posted:Umm there are refugees coming into Finland too. Yeah at a rate of 300-500 a day, and we are expecting 1000 a day soon as the Swedish railways started a new operation with added volume for northbound transportation. We also have 400 000 unemployed of our own in a country of around 5mil, we're deep in debt, can't fund our public sector, and running the 8th year of a recession, and most of the migrants are either Iraqis or Somalis. I repeat these people are escaping Sweden to get here. That's how much in danger they are. The employment rate of Iraqis and Somalis has been at around 15-20% even when Finland was doing well, and we're not doing well. For me it's easy to understand why plenty of people are worried. Ligur fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 10:25
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DarkCrawler posted:Umm there are refugees coming into Finland too. I'm Finnish and I disagree with him but let's not pretend this isn't an European problem as a whole, even if it's just like three countries actually picking up the slack. I know, I'm talking specifically about him being far from the refugee camps in Greece/Turkey/Lebanon. Given his outright hatred of foreigners I have a feeling if he saw any refugees in whichever town he's in he'd run away before they murder him or something. So he's entirely armchairing about this. I'm not claiming anything about Finland as a whole, and yes it definitely is a European problem.
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Sep 18, 2015 10:35
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Ligur posted:There's a steady stream of news from Sweden and now in Finland when the "refugees" do not accept the housing and food they are given. Just today a Swedish paper reported a bunch of Syrians refuse to leave the bus that took them to the migrant center the Swedish somehow managed to whip up for them, in the middle of the huge flood of asylum seekers they are struggling to handle, because they want better. Personally, I'm extremely wary of suspiciously well timed news, and I think you should be too. Reporting bullshit is risk-free, and you can always recant a week later on page 20, with a first page op ed on how the bullshit never happened but it doesn't mean it couldn't have. Are you absolutely sure of your sources? Ligur posted:I hope you can see why it sometimes seems a little absurd, yes? On the first hand, they are supposedly escaping immediate personal threat of death and torture (not even war, according to UNHCR a country in war doesn't make someone a refugee) but on the second hand, when they get to a Nordic country they sometimes act as if they are entitled to much more than housing, food, healthcare and safety up to a point they want to dictate where, how and what city they are housed in. You would do it too. The question is, what would it take to convince you, Ligur, to do otherwise? better treatment? worse treatment? threatened with arrest? arrested but in name only? deported? How would you handle yourself? This is not about your or anyone's feelings (which are worthless) e: I have my own ideas on how the crisis should be handled but they're boring
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Sep 18, 2015 10:38
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Tesseraction posted:I know, I'm talking specifically about him being far from the refugee camps in Greece/Turkey/Lebanon. Given his outright hatred of foreigners I have a feeling if he saw any refugees in whichever town he's in he'd run away before they murder him or something. So he's entirely armchairing about this. I'm not claiming anything about Finland as a whole, and yes it definitely is a European problem. Where the gently caress did you come up with the idea that I hate foreigners? Most of the people I work with every day are these foreigners you speak of, and I certainly don't hate them. I don't hate foreigners I don't work with, either. I simply don't care where you are from on any personal level. Also hating anyone has nothing to do with what I think about the migrant crisis, and how it should be handled.
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Sep 18, 2015 10:41
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Oh okay sorry you just hate people fleeing war and post dodgy sources talking about how they're ungrateful and smelly. And call them 'migrants' instead of 'refugees' because you know demonising migrants looks less bad to casual observers.
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Sep 18, 2015 10:45
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hackbunny posted:Personally, I'm extremely wary of suspiciously well timed news, and I think you should be too. Reporting bullshit is risk-free, and you can always recant a week later on page 20, with a first page op ed on how the bullshit never happened but it doesn't mean it couldn't have. Are you absolutely sure of your sources? The "we don't like it here and refuse to stay" -reports usually come from smaller local newspapers over the past few years. I can't imagine why the reporters who are usually very asylum seeker friendly in Nordic countries would make them up from thin air. Like this or this. It's just been a steady stream, people can believe it's a thing or don't, I don't care. Because I'm pretty skeptic about the actual motivations of people who escape immediate personal death and torture to Turkey, to Greece, to Austria, to Germany, to Denmark, to Sweden, to Finland, they naturally strike a nerve. But in the end I wouldn't make much of it for real, tbh. Ligur fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 10:46
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