|
Nah, he ruined Eggman's moustache with that first hit.
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 07:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 10:41 |
|
|
The Sezza posted:Know this: Even though I bite this bullet myself, my crimes are your own. You're the hero this LP deserves, but not the one it needs right now. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 09:30
|
|
|
Holy poo poo, I can actually get money for the Gamecube copy of this game? I was about to just bury it in a box somewhere, I gotta find out what sucker is willing to give me $90 for it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 17:14
|
|
|
C-Euro posted:Holy poo poo, I can actually get money for the Gamecube copy of this game? I was about to just bury it in a box somewhere, I gotta find out what sucker is willing to give me $90 for it. you can sell it for ten dollars, i guess, there's nobody in the world who will give you 90 for it
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 17:17
|
|
|
I'd own this POS for a tenner on GC, I guess to laugh at with friends and a beer *is on ending #213* I swear I don't have a problem guys
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 18:05
|
|
|
Sonic hasn't been good since Robotnik was changed back to Eggman. This is the green hill I will die on. Meanwhile my friend's 9 year old has entered the rebellious period of his Sonic obsession. Last year it was Sonic & Tails, now his avatar whenever she texts me screencaps with "can you believe this kid?" is Shadow. Kids grow up so fast these days.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 19:33
|
|
|
JordanKai posted:
The first time in human history this sentence has ever been articulated. Something just happened to someone in hell. Well, I am in full agreement on all counts about how lovely this game is, but there is one thing I will begrudgingly praise: this is the only game I've ever seen that has a halfway decent approach to the Good/Evil meter. Granted, the execution is lovely, but the fact that each objective has completely different subsequent missions, and thus totally different trajectory for the story, depending on how you complete the mission really makes it possible for the Worst ending to be totally different in tone and scenrio tha nthe Best ending. This is the reason I normally don't like good/evil mechanics like in Infamous 2 or Jade Empire, because the story proceeds more or less exactly the same, regardless of how evil or good you turn out. Having the final battle be in two totally different places against different characters is exactly the sort of thing that gives "moral choice" ideas any merit. Also, surprisingly well thought out that Shadow includes middle-ground missions, and not every outcome is neatly organized into "save the busload of orphans" or "murder the puppy farm" type choices. In the hands of a more competent developer with a more interesting story to tell, this sort of system could really be used to do some interesting stuff.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 19:56
|
|
|
gently caress no. The best approach to a good/evil meter is either to not have it at all (Alpha Protocol, Witcher games) or have the game actually build it around your actions, as opposed to having you adjust your actions toward it (Planescape: Torment, Metro 2033). Morality systems in games are generally a terrible idea, though: it's a really cheap way to try and get you to do another playthrough.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 19:58
|
|
|
Nah, Shadow's multiple-playthrough path-choosing idea is amazing and I'd love to see it done well. The execution is a travesty, but I think it's really, really solid as a notion. The grid would need to be reworked and not start you at the same level all the time, of course, and 10 playthroughs are a bit excessive, but in general, I'm well in favor. Btw, I'm playing Shin Megami Tensei 4 right now, and apparently that has (like all other games in the series, if I gathered that correctly, SMT4 is my first) a huge ORDER CHAOS NEUTRAL decision, so if you want to see everything, you need 3 playthroughs, but to get every demon in your Pokedex, you need 6 playthroughs. I am currently at 60 hours and don't feel nearly done. Now that's excessive. Otoh is SMT4 a really loving fun game, so suck it, Shadow.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 20:27
|
|
|
honestly I don't think getting every demon or every ending is something you should EXPECT the player to be able to do and it's fine if it takes an unreasonable amount of effort to accomplish, extra content should be a nice bonus if you play the game again. I have a very DRAKENGARD view of completionists.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 20:32
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:gently caress no. Unfortunately I haven't played any of the games you mentioned so I'm not really sure what you mean. What's an example of the game building the morality around your actions? The thing I found favorable in Shadow was that the choices are a bit more consequential than "do mean thing get evil red power beam, do good thing get nice blue power beam." I grant that the basic branching story structure of Shadow is simple and (in this case) done fairly crudely, but the basic idea could really work wonders in say, a Skryim type of game. Instead of everyone arriving at the same final boss (albeit their paths there are extremely varied) different players could end up having experienced vastly different stories. That'd be rad brah. That said can I take another moment to appreciate the full raving madness that is Shadow the Hedgehog. "Dr. Robotnik's grandfather worked for the government on a secret weapon but-" is as far as I can get into summarizing the game before a deep-rooted survival instinct kicks in and tries to regurgitate the poison that is clearly working away at my brain. It's a lot like how seasickness works.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 23:08
|
|
|
Simply Simon posted:]\ Actually you only need three.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 23:11
|
|
|
...if you do the Neutral run first.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 23:11
|
|
|
Simply Simon posted:*is on ending #213* I swear I don't have a problem guys You jest but there are actually people who went for every single level combination to fill up the game's theater mode. I poo poo you not. Simply Simon posted:Nah, Shadow's multiple-playthrough path-choosing idea is amazing and I'd love to see it done well. The execution is a travesty, but I think it's really, really solid as a notion. The grid would need to be reworked and not start you at the same level all the time, of course, and 10 playthroughs are a bit excessive, but in general, I'm well in favor. Yeah, it's actually a great idea in concept, kinda like a roguelike but instead of an infinite pool of randomly generated levels you have a set pool of fully designed levels that you can choose your own path through. Yoshi's Story attempted this too but that game didn't really do a great job at it either. The big issues with Shadow's CYOA style are: 1) No matter what, you are going to do Westopolis 10 times and each ending level twice 2) The levels are so linear and the missions don't add any variety. You're either dashing through a level, dashing slightly further through the level, going slowly through a level picking off every member of one of the factions, dashing through the level while occasionally stopping to take out an obvious objective, or plodding through the level searching for x needles in a haystack. There are never any cool alternate routes to change your experience of the same level or anything. 3) The story doesn't even try to accommodate your path through the game or make sense. Shadow just teleports across the world randomly, makes random choices for no reason, and that somehow makes him teleport across the map to a different place. What you do in an individual level, whatever "moral choice" you make, it has absolutely no narrative implications, it just makes Shadow rush over to a computer instead of a city and nobody treats him any differently even if he literally just murdered the president and nuked Switzerland in the previous level. 4) You are inevitably going to end up in a situation where you need to do a piece of poo poo tedious mission that you really don't want to do in order to get the ending you want. Unless you are clairvoyant and plan your route with the utmost efficiency, it's going to happen. Every single conversation about game design I have inevitably comes back to Mega Man, but I could seriously imagine a Mega Man Zero-type game doing cool stuff with choosing your own route through the game to alternate endings. Mega Man games have always had an element of choice to selecting your stages, and they've dabbled in taking alternate paths to complete stages, so why not? Acne Rain posted:honestly I don't think getting every demon or every ending is something you should EXPECT the player to be able to do and it's fine if it takes an unreasonable amount of effort to accomplish, extra content should be a nice bonus if you play the game again. Drakengard hates completionists but it also forces you to be a completionist in order to get the full experience of the story and deliberately keeps it from being anything resembling a "nice bonus". What I'm saying is that Drakengard just hates you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 23:19
|
|
|
Haha I just realized that Shadow plays basically like Axl...in X7.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 23:25
|
|
|
Augus posted:
That's the other thing, if the game is doing the roguelike thing with the same beginning part each time, it really needs to have something incredibly short and simple, like the first stage of Toejam and Earl. A nice little enemy-free arena to learn the controls in for beginners, but also a straightforward enough area that people who know what they're doing can just breeze on through to the randomly generated part. The fact that the items that spawn are random does a lot to keep it interesting.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2015 23:29
|
|
|
Augus posted:There are never any cool alternate routes to change your experience of the same level or anything. This is actually slightly false, while most levels just follow the same line a few of them do have different parts of the level that you would only see on a certain objective. I can think of about 2 or 3 specific ones right now but the LP hasn't actually got to them yet so I won't name them yet. Techinically the lava shelter had a alternate route you had to go when ya activated the one of the pumps but it's so minor it barely matters Zoig fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Sep 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2015 01:39
|
|
|
Speaking of alternate routes: the LP of this I watched before (can't get enough of the hilarity) and myself when playing it (once through, horrible slowdown PS2 emulator nonetheless...that helped with the controls, actually) never once got all five golden keys for a level. It was said that in the lava shelter, they unlock a way to get over the giant lava pit? I always assumed that behind the door was, like, a single one-up or something equally nonsensical. What is behind those doors?
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2015 07:58
|
|
|
Simply Simon posted:Haha I just realized that Shadow plays basically like Axl...in X7. Honestly I wouldn't even give this game that much credit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2015 10:03
|
|
|
Lemma posted:Unfortunately I haven't played any of the games you mentioned so I'm not really sure what you mean. What's an example of the game building the morality around your actions? The thing I found favorable in Shadow was that the choices are a bit more consequential than "do mean thing get evil red power beam, do good thing get nice blue power beam." Well, generally what you said except less lovely and also actually a thing that happens in the game instead of your wishful thinking gland. See, the whole point of a moral choice system (or a "moral choice" system, more often) is that the story changes in an organic way based on how you interact with it, it's the main selling point of the whole thing. So like, let's just hypothetically say Skyrim had a moral choice system and it was a good moral choice system like you wanted an example of. If River the khajiit goes through the game burgling stores on a regular basis, holds she passes through a lot might start posting extra guards at night to catch the thief. If she burgles and gets caught on a regular basis, stores might start refusing her service. Also, other khajiit might not be so happy to see her, since one encounter with River undoes years of work they've put into convincing these racist-rear end Nord motherfuckers that cat people are good for something other than stealing poo poo. If she regularly takes down mammoths with her bare hands, worshippers of the hunt god might seek her out and conscript her into their ranks, and maybe that actually alters the ending of the story in a significant way. If she does the thing that one guy did and just lives like an NPC with a regular daily schedule of eating, sleeping, and non-world-saving work, people might, depending on their overall disposition, either decide their chosen hero is a salt-of-the-earth woman of the people who can be relied on to help rebuild after she's gotten around to taking care of the whole dragon problem, or that she's a delusional slacker who's dooming them all by ignoring her responsibilities; if you run into the former during your day they might give you something to help you once you get to that whole world-saving thing, while the latter might come and mob you in the night and beat you senseless for being a disgrace. The Mass Effect-style "Nice Points Vs. Mean Points" gauge is the easiest way to do a morality system, which is also why none of the things I suggested would actually be doable in any system that visibly tracked your behavior in the same way. Also only one of those things I suggested could reasonably cordon off powers or other prizes so you don't have the game chastising you for showing nuance.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2015 12:08
|
|
|
Simply Simon posted:What is behind those doors?
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2015 12:11
|
|
|
JordanKai posted:Honestly I wouldn't even give this game that much credit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2015 12:11
|
|
|
shadow the hedgehog is the ultimate morality play imo
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2015 12:13
|
|
|
FutureFriend posted:shadow the hedgehog is the ultimate morality play imo Only fitting since he's the ultimate being.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2015 13:49
|
|
|
Simply Simon posted:Really? I found X7 one of the absolute worst games I've ever played, down to the very core mechanics. Shadow shows that they at least did a few 3D games before, everything in X7 screams "we have no idea what we are doing". Maybe I'm biased because I think about Mega Man level design so much... Probably the most damning thing about X7 is that it was so bad that it turned people off of X8, which is probably the best game since X4.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2015 14:53
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Probably the most damning thing about X7 is that it was so bad that it turned people off of X8, which is probably the best game since X4. Mega Man faces that problem in nearly every series. Starforce 2 killed SF3. BN4 killed 5 and 6. It's a bummer.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2015 15:58
|
|
|
SonicRulez posted:Mega Man faces that problem in nearly every series. Starforce 2 killed SF3. BN4 killed 5 and 6. It's a bummer. That's what happens when your company doesn't care about the franchise having somewhat consistent quality. It damages the brand, and it's why even the
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2015 17:53
|
|
|
Shadow is too black and too strong to be contained.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2015 19:41
|
|
|
Mod the game and replace Shadow and his lines with pure Dolemite.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2015 20:04
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2015 23:38
|
|
|
Android lives matter
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2015 23:43
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:Shadow is too black and too strong to be contained. And too wrapped up in himself
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2015 02:39
|
|
|
Fine, I'll post it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAaAeI-2x_8 Opinion: Sonic Rush has the best soundtrack in the series. Naganuma is a god amongst men. Like, I love me some Crush 40 like any other red-blooded American. But Sonic Rush's soundtrack is just consistently great. Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Sep 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2015 02:42
|
|
|
Yeah, Jet Grind Sonic and it's sequel had some pretty good soundtracks.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2015 03:18
|
|
|
Sonic 06 and Megaman X7 are a Special Kind of awful. They're the awful that nostalgia cannot fix. If you grew up on Megaman 8 through X5, you could be forgiven for thinking X6 is an alright game. The same can be said for Shadow the hedgehog. If You remember coming home from elementary school and playing Sonic Adventure, then you probably also have good memories of playing Shadow the Hedgehog in middle school. X7 is much worse than Shadow the Hedgehog. X7 does not have a loving shame closet in anyone's heart. 06 is the same way. They are objectively bad. They struggle to baseline function, and forgo fun for tedium. Shadow the hedgehog is bad a lot. It has tedious missions. If you're trying to 100% it, then you're going to have a bad time. But using the Machine/Gatling Gun makes you feel strong, and it is fun to just infinite ammo shoot everything. The controls are bad, but it never feels like your character made an independent decision to seek death.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2015 03:36
|
|
|
Oh boy, now we can talk about all the games in the Sonic franchise and how they stack up against each other! What's the opinion on Unleashed? I never played that one at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2015 04:11
|
|
|
Day stages great, night stages eeh, forced collectathon AUGH.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2015 04:18
|
|
|
 all hail shadow
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2015 04:22
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:Oh boy, now we can talk about all the games in the Sonic franchise and how they stack up against each other! The day stages are very much the genesis of the modern sonic playstyle. if you like those you'll like the day stages of unleashed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYvCTcDx-fQ The night stages are a competent, if not very ambitious, god of war clone, with a surprisingly in-depth combo system. The wii version, isn't quite as good. But there's a fan-project going on right now to port the day stages from Unleashed to the PC using Sonic Generation's engine.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2015 04:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 10:41 |
|
|
Unleashed's day stages have like 30 seconds of platforming total between all of them and the rest is boosting on a path and reacting to poo poo flying at you at 200 mph with the occasional quick time event. They're pretty but they aren't good. Generations's modern stages have way more going on in terms of actual level design
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2015 05:35
|
|