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FINGERBLASTER69 posted:Are you suggesting that countries should let in Al Qaeda and Al Nusra members? What the gently caress The extreme left is pretty much fingers in ear *lah lah lah can't hear you* at this point and it's going to fracture the moderates and lead to a huge increase in the right wing of Europe. It's really sad.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:13
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Hungary is covering all the bases: This is apparently an ad in a Lebanese newspaper.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:13
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FINGERBLASTER69 posted:So by that logic regime figures from oppressive regimes should be let in as well because hey, they chose a side in a civil war! Just because they picked a bad side and executed/tortured people doesn't make them bad guys! And war criminals should not be accepted as the price of letting people flood in. I can't believe some of the things that I'm reading in this thread. "Taking in war criminals is the cost of saving lives" holy poo poo. lol, if you are an important regime figure your name is probably on every police watchlist in Europe right now. there is really not much more that police can do than that though, they are working with hundreds of thousands of people passing by per week. it's not like you can park the masses somewhere in Serbia while you run your photo ID software or whatever on every photograph of every refugee or do whatever it is that they do with their CSI poo poo.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:14
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waitwhatno posted:
Perfect example right here, just keep calling people nazis and see how well that works out.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:16
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:The extreme left is pretty much fingers in ear *lah lah lah can't hear you* at this point and it's going to fracture the moderates and lead to a huge increase in the right wing of Europe. It's really sad. The hard-left hasn't been in power since the 70s, so good luck with blaming us.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:16
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Tesseraction posted:What's that, you're defecting from North Korea? Step up to this wall and smile for the firing squad good buddy we can't have you infecting our democracy. Actually the South Koreans do extensive interviewing and checking on each refugee to make sure they aren't a spy, so this analogy is kinda dumb.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:17
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:The extreme left is pretty much fingers in ear *lah lah lah can't hear you* at this point and it's going to fracture the moderates and lead to a huge increase in the right wing of Europe. It's really sad. To prevent the rise of right wing policies in Europe, we should adopt right wing policies in Europe?
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Sep 21, 2015 16:18
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:Actually the South Koreans do extensive interviewing and checking on each refugee to make sure they aren't a spy, so this analogy is kinda dumb. And there aren't literal millions of North Korean refugees so extensive interviewing isn't an option.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:20
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:The extreme left is pretty much fingers in ear *lah lah lah can't hear you* at this point and it's going to fracture the moderates and lead to a huge increase in the right wing of Europe. It's really sad. The left should let a few more kids drown so it'll be splashed all over the news and cause a huge backlash from the horrified moderates against the right wing. Then the left can ride the wave of drowned children to electoral victory in the polls!
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Sep 21, 2015 16:20
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:Actually the South Koreans do extensive interviewing and checking on each refugee to make sure they aren't a spy, so this analogy is kinda dumb. The person was specifically talking about figures from regimes. Several of the Kim family's inner circle have defected and none of them have been turned back, from SK or from America. How does this square with: FINGERBLASTER69 posted:So by that logic regime figures from oppressive regimes should be let in as well because hey, they chose a side in a civil war! Just because they picked a bad side and executed/tortured people doesn't make them bad guys! And war criminals should not be accepted as the price of letting people flood in. I can't believe some of the things that I'm reading in this thread. "Taking in war criminals is the cost of saving lives" holy poo poo. Which is what I was replying to.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:21
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But what if the babies these refugees are bringing with them are meticulously disguised bombs? They may waddle and gurgle like a real baby, and tremble and quake like a child that has experienced terror, but what if it's just a cunning ruse created to boondoggle the flapping heads of the extremist left? Let no babies into Europe I say!
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Sep 21, 2015 16:21
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Gravel Gravy posted:And there aren't literal millions of North Korean refugees crossing the border so extensive interviewing isn't an option. Isn't one of the reasons nobody tried to depose the North Korean dictators the resulting refugee crisis that would overwhelm the South? e: VVVV the culture shock must be a bitch
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Sep 21, 2015 16:21
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Tesseraction posted:What's that, you're defecting from North Korea? Step up to this wall and smile for the firing squad good buddy we can't have you infecting our democracy. Actually South Korean intelligence closely watches North Korean defectors, and they are only let out of custody after extensive vetting. And North Koreans aren't accepted by society, finding a job can be quite difficult and they have difficulty adjusting to society.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:21
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hackbunny posted:Isn't one of the reasons nobody tried to depose the North Korean dictators the resulting refugee crisis that would overwhelm the South? South and North. Neither S. Korea, China, or even Russia really want to deal with it.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:23
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hackbunny posted:Isn't one of the reasons nobody tried to depose the North Korean dictators the resulting refugee crisis that would overwhelm the South? Also because China and Soviet help meant SK and America couldn't win the war and now there's no reason to cause a big humanitarian crisis, yes. But mostly it's China standing on the sidelines with a parental eye on both sides.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:23
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hackbunny posted:Isn't one of the reasons nobody tried to depose the North Korean dictators the resulting refugee crisis that would overwhelm the South? Many refugees would flee to China; they can simply walk across the Yalu river and into China. The DMZ is the most fortified border in the world but the China-DPRK border is pretty porous. Brave Chinese tourists can even walk over the border and back really fast.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:23
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Tesseraction posted:Also because China and Soviet help meant SK and America couldn't win the war and now there's no reason to cause a big humanitarian crisis, yes. But mostly it's China standing on the sidelines with a parental eye on both sides. Not really. According to Wikileaks, China is amenable to a united Korea under the ROK government, provided US forces don't cross the 38th parallel (which is why it will never happen.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:25
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hackbunny posted:e: VVVV the culture shock must be a bitch Apparently KPop is quite popular on pirate radio in NK. FINGERBLASTER69 posted:Actually South Korean intelligence closely watches North Korean defectors, and they are only let out of custody after extensive vetting. And North Koreans aren't accepted by society, finding a job can be quite difficult and they have difficulty adjusting to society. This is moving your goalposts, you said they should not be accepted in the first post and now you're saying they're under close scrutiny. Either the act of letting them through is permissible or it's not in some circumstances, so is your view that, for instance, known militants from Syria should not be allowed unless they are under close scrutiny? Or at all?
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Sep 21, 2015 16:26
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TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:Perfect example right here, just keep calling people nazis and see how well that works out.  Here's a hint: his post is in defense to a poster who has a noted history of racist arguments and bigoted debating points. This is not at all in defense of a good faith argument.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:29
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kikkelivelho posted:Hungary is covering all the bases: Just following Denmarks lead.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:34
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Narciss posted:You can't even make this stuff up: If this is true and exactly what it appears to be, it's shocking how incompetent European police forces are. If he's such an obvious former combatant that he put it on his freaking Facebook profile, you'd think someone would at least debrief him before he's resettled
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Sep 21, 2015 16:36
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Look at this Syrian animal. And the 17-year old boy she calls friend. 
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Sep 21, 2015 16:41
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Tesseraction posted:Apparently KPop is quite popular on pirate radio in NK. I don't think the Korean system is applicable here. I was explaining how the ROK actually treats defectors, as opposed to them being welcomed with open arms.
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Sep 21, 2015 16:57
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Riso posted:Just following Denmarks lead.
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Sep 21, 2015 17:14
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FINGERBLASTER69 posted:I don't think the Korean system is applicable here. I was explaining how the ROK actually treats defectors, as opposed to them being welcomed with open arms. Considering how the guy was received by getting tripped over and kicked while carrying a child by an overzealous Jobbiknik first thing upon getting into Hungary, I think "open arms" is not the right phrase to use here. Regardless, if it's so obvious that this guy is a war criminal, it's astonishing that Spanish authorities haven't arrested him already. No worries though, if it's all true, he'll be taken in by Interpol soon enough.
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Sep 21, 2015 17:22
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hackbunny posted:If this is true and exactly what it appears to be, it's shocking how incompetent European police forces are. If he's such an obvious former combatant that he put it on his freaking Facebook profile, you'd think someone would at least debrief him before he's resettled I suppose its fair to say that none of the border or police forces have anyone experienced with this sort of thing. Hence the economic migrants' abuse of of the refugee flow towards Europe. However people are using this stuff as a justification for just ending European acceptance of refugees in total and I just wonder how their great-grandparents, grandparents or even parents would shake their head. They don't ever really apply this thinking to much else in their life - whether or not criminals breaking law means the whole concept of law must be erased, and such. But NOW, when refugees are coming to Europe in big numbers in recent years, now is the time that the whole system in regards to taking care of refugees to be scrapped. This isn't the first large scale refugee crisis faced by Europe, this isn't even the biggest. Many of the noisiest countries were once themselves huge source of refugees to neighboring countries and to the world (Rest of Europe, Americas and Oceania mostly). And European ones had the massive huge advantage over actual born people in many of the non-Europeans countries thanks to the huge racist systems that were still in place in many of their destinations (in fact many countries accepted ONLY Europeans/White people). I know someone is going to whine "Well we're not responsible for that" well no poo poo, I'm not responsible for this country being in a financial crisis either. I'm not responsible for the eighteen years of things that went on before I became a voting adult and was expected to pay for the mistakes of the preceding generations as soon as I got a job.Our grandparents hosed WAY too much without condoms and had WAY too many babies and my generation is expected to pay for those babies when they grow old and STAY old for two decades because our grandparents revolutionized medical science and contraceptives too. I had no power over this, nobody asked for my consent to either do this or go to jail, but here we are. But an international law followed for the vast majority of time since its inception by the vast majority of the world, created from scratch to help European refugees is wrong, because "hey, none of this is my fault, why am I expected to pay for this!" even though none of it was the fault of the countries that helped Europeans - on occasion direct relatives of many people - when Europe had a huge refugee crisis. And multiple smaller ones. In fact many of these countries have been taking the equivalents of European refugees from conflicts since before the concept of a refugee even existed, to direct detriment of the people in these countries for literal centuries. For once when we're in the receiving end in a way that actually registers, the international agreement that countries like Turkey or Jordan have been taking without complaint (or nothing equivalent to the whining of say, Hungary at the least) for the past 3-4 years should be killed. There are deficiencies in our border and policing systems because this is new to this generation, so the system is wrong and the law should be dead. If Europe took in a million people it wouldn't have any effect on the living standard of Europeans that would even be comparable to the effect it has had to the rest of the world for the whole history. Much less the effect upholding this international law has had in the rest of the world for its existence. Our financial problems are nothing to the upheavals that taking in new immigrants and yes, actual refugees from Europe that was too busy loving itself over with constant wars caused to say, Native Americans, black South Africans, African Americans, and even earlier European immigrants like Irish Americans before someone blames me of hating whitey or something. Europe was burning for most of its existence. The descendants of Europeans who left because of religious persecution, crippling poverty in their home country, huge wars or civil wars is half a billion. In 1940's a system was created to manage the latest massive outflow of Europeans without a home. This system has lasted until this day, and as always, the rest of the world is actually carrying most of the load with 86% of refugees in there. But hey, Europe is asked to accept say, extra few percentages equivalent to maybe a load of some of the single countries in the rest of the world and its WELL IT WAS GOOD WHILE IT LASTED AND ENORMOUSLY BENEFITED US BUT YOU KNOW I'VE NEVER BEEN A REFUGEE MYSELF SO IT'S NOT MY FAULT GENERATIONAL UPHOLDING OF LAW AND RESPONSIBILITIES CERTAINLY IS NOT A THING THAT EXISTS. How does someone manage to be that much of a pussy and a callous rear end in a top hat at the same time? DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 17:33
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DarkCrawler posted:I suppose its fair to say that none of the border or police forces have anyone experienced with this sort of thing. Hence the economic migrants' abuse of of the refugee flow towards Europe. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_guilt
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Sep 21, 2015 17:57
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I'm not white. White people elsewhere in the world took in a shitload of Europeans too. Refugees late as the 90's. US for example: http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/america-tonight/america-tonight-blog/2013/10/13/the-5-biggest-refugeegroupsofthelast20years.html European shame is more of an appropriate word then white guilt. People are so entitled. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 18:07
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So acknowledging that history is a thing that exists where things happened that can be related to a present-day situation means that you're a cucked white knight that should shut up, or some kind of huckster trying to win pats on the back? If I'm wrong, please correct me, it's rather hard to deduce an opinion from a single wikipedia link.
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Sep 21, 2015 18:27
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http://yle.fi/uutiset/iraqis_on_facebook_warn_compatriots_against_coming_to_finland/8321293 There are other similar news but apparently Finland is so depressing place that refugees are starting to run back to Sweden/Germany/loving Iraq. Also, mere existence of police at the swedish border directing these people to registration was so terrifying that several buses full of them just turned around at border and went back to Sweden.
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Sep 21, 2015 18:51
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DarkCrawler posted:I'm not white. White people elsewhere in the world took in a shitload of Europeans too. Refugees late as the 90's. US for example: "Altogether, 438,000 refugees had applied for asylum by the end of July - compared with 571,000 for the whole of last year." Excessive migration is a bad thing. It will be costly for the European countries to accept that many migrants in such a short time. And given the dire economic situation in many European countries, the migrants chances to integrate will be slim. And one has to take into account the needs of the poor people living in Europe at the moment, aswell as the destitute migrants.
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Sep 21, 2015 19:01
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Puistokemisti posted:http://yle.fi/uutiset/iraqis_on_facebook_warn_compatriots_against_coming_to_finland/8321293 Sensible. Living in a bombed-out ruin with bullets whistling by over your head is miles better than languishing in some Ugric wasteland, worshipping sticks and radiators, functioning welfare system or no. But don't take my word for it, here's the gentleman in question explaining his predicament: a gentleman of elevated sensibility and wit posted:"It's much better to live in Iraq," he says in the video. "It is dangerous there, but so be it. I'm definitely going back. I'd rather die in my home country."
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Sep 21, 2015 19:01
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murphyslaw posted:Sensible. Living in a bombed-out ruin with bullets whistling by over your head But enough about Malmö.
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Sep 21, 2015 19:02
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Puistokemisti posted:http://yle.fi/uutiset/iraqis_on_facebook_warn_compatriots_against_coming_to_finland/8321293 Sounds about right.
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Sep 21, 2015 19:02
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murphyslaw posted:So acknowledging that history is a thing that exists where things happened that can be related to a present-day situation means that you're a cucked white knight that should shut up, or some kind of huckster trying to win pats on the back? If I'm wrong, please correct me, it's rather hard to deduce an opinion from a single wikipedia link. How about acknowledging the history of the millions of christian/muslim deaths that occurred due to purges? afeelgoodpoop fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 19:07
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freelancemoth posted:"Altogether, 438,000 refugees had applied for asylum by the end of July - compared with 571,000 for the whole of last year." Explain to me: why should Europe directly benefit from refugee law in very recent memory, remain a part of UN, sign all the treaties and agreements, crow about human rights and dignities if it itself isn't going to follow the responsibility when it falls on it? Can Jordan, Lebanon or Turkey to throw out all the refugees back to Syria and watch them get barrel bombed, and would you support that decision? Why is it being hugely costly to those countries OK and fine but for far richer, far more populous European nations taking in less refugees isn't? Why does Europe just get to have its cake and eat it too? What special status do you feel they are accorded in order to find that justifiable? Or do you support European nations leaving the United Nations and declaring that their citizens are no longer covered by any refugee treatment laws? Do you see that as a good solution? I'm seriously trying to see where people who say Europe shouldn't take the refugees are coming from. Because if they want to be exempt from refugee laws that's fine, at least they aren't being hypocritical.
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Sep 21, 2015 19:18
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DarkCrawler posted:Explain to me: why should Europe directly benefit from refugee law in very recent memory, remain a part of UN, sign all the treaties and agreements, crow about human rights and dignities if it itself isn't going to follow the responsibility when it falls on it? Can Jordan, Lebanon or Turkey to throw out all the refugees back to Syria and watch them get barrel bombed, and would you support that decision? Why is it being hugely costly to those countries OK and fine but for far richer, far more populous European nations taking in less refugees isn't? You can help the migrants at home and abroad. But this should be subject to each member states ability to help them. (Don't exactly know what you mean by "Europe") This political position doesn't "violate" anything.
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Sep 21, 2015 19:35
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Narciss posted:Al-Nusra is a radical Islamist terror group that wants to establish an Islamic Caliphate in Syria. This guy was a long-time member of the group and apparently fought with them. Am I being trolled here? Is that a problem? I assume he isn't carrying an RPG7 around shooting it at people wherever he is now. I mean you could send him back, but presumably if you did he would then have cause to start fighting again, which seems counterproductive if your goal is to stop people fighting for groups you don't like. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 19:36
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murphyslaw posted:Sensible. Living in a bombed-out ruin with bullets whistling by over your head is miles better than languishing in some Ugric wasteland, worshipping sticks and radiators, functioning welfare system or no. But don't take my word for it, here's the gentleman in question explaining his predicament: hahaha God help me but I laughed out loud like a loving idiot 10/10 twist
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Sep 21, 2015 19:42
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OwlFancier posted:Is that a problem? I assume he isn't carrying an MP 40 around shooting it at people wherever he is now. Jesus Christ
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Sep 21, 2015 19:45
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