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Lexicon posted:Totally agree. It baffles me that people are willing to landlord at all - for one thing, the financial parameters are so dire in Canadian cities, and have been for so long. Between the risk and the hassle, I wouldn't do it even if the returns to the capital/time were huge. Oh yeah, its why I hate this pandering to "small business". Most small businesses like restaurants and cafes are run like stupid fiefdoms because the owners are too personally invested into it, and basic market rationality and calculations don't apply because of this behaviour. Most small businesses are for people to get their rocks off being in charge of people, rather than to actually make profit, do businesses, etc.
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Sep 21, 2015 20:39
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Lexicon posted:Totally agree. It baffles me that people are willing to landlord at all - for one thing, the financial parameters are so dire in Canadian cities, and have been for so long. Between the risk and the hassle, I wouldn't do it even if the returns to the capital/time were huge. People choose real estate for a lot of reasons, many of which were already covered in this thread. -The stock market is scary and they know someone who "lost it all" in 2008/2000/1989. -People love talking about their investments. Real estate is arguably a socially acceptable investment vehicle that can be talked about at a party without seeming hoity-toity. Stocks generally aren't. Especially boring index funds. -Government incentives to buy real estate. Also you could make the argument that being a landlord gives people purpose in life and I'm sure there are genuinely good landlords out there that care about their tenants. But most of them probably aren't, or were and aren't anymore because they got screwed by a few bad apples.
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Sep 21, 2015 20:49
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Melian Dialogue posted:Oh yeah, its why I hate this pandering to "small business". Most small businesses like restaurants and cafes are run like stupid fiefdoms because the owners are too personally invested into it, and basic market rationality and calculations don't apply because of this behaviour. Most small businesses are for people to get their rocks off being in charge of people, rather than to actually make profit, do businesses, etc. Ohh boy you nailed it. I think restaurant owners also love the social standing that comes with owning a restaurant. Not that there's anything wrong with that per-say. But when you bring yourself to financial ruin for this social standing and give your employees no notice when you close up shop...well, then that's sad.
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Sep 21, 2015 20:54
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Rick Rickshaw posted:Ohh boy you nailed it. I think restaurant owners also love the social standing that comes with owning a restaurant. Not that there's anything wrong with that per-say. But when you bring yourself to financial ruin for this social standing and give your employees no notice when you close up shop...well, then that's sad. I like the gordon ramsey kitchen nightmare shows where it is very clear the restaurant owners have watched too many movies and think that restaurant ownership is some sort of shortcut to climb the social ladder and get into the family bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 20:59
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Rick Rickshaw posted:People choose real estate for a lot of reasons, many of which were already covered in this thread. Good points all around, particularly the social angle.
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Sep 21, 2015 21:23
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32MB OF ESRAM posted:I like the gordon ramsey kitchen nightmare shows where it is very clear the restaurant owners have watched too many movies and think that restaurant ownership is some sort of shortcut to climb the social ladder and get into the family When in reality over 90% of restaurants go bankrupt within 5 years.
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Sep 21, 2015 21:26
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Rick Rickshaw posted:-The stock market is scary and they know someone who "lost it all" in 2008/2000/1989. It's always because they freak out and sell at the bottom of market. It's the easiest mistake in the whole goddamn world to avoid, if you have two braincells to rub together. Rick Rickshaw posted:Ohh boy you nailed it. I think restaurant owners also love the social standing that comes with owning a restaurant. Not that there's anything wrong with that per-say. But when you bring yourself to financial ruin for this social standing and give your employees no notice when you close up shop...well, then that's sad. Wow, it's like you know my idiot ex-friend whose restaurant just closed down after being horribly run for 8 months because he thought it ought to run according to his whims instead of reality!
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Sep 21, 2015 21:27
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PT6A posted:It's always because they freak out and sell at the bottom of market. It's the easiest mistake in the whole goddamn world to avoid, if you have two braincells to rub together. You need cash on hand to weather the storm, the kind of person who gets on at the end of a bubble by borrowing a shitload of cash typically doesn't.
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Sep 21, 2015 21:31
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Xoidanor posted:You need cash on hand to weather the storm, the kind of person who gets on at the end of a bubble by borrowing a shitload of cash typically doesn't. Or you need to be working instead of living off investment income. Either way, if you lose it all or even a significant chunk of what you had, you either had very little to begin with or were really, really stupid.
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Sep 21, 2015 21:33
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Lmao are you kidding me? Single moms are garbage humans. Especially in Vancouver
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Sep 21, 2015 21:36
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PT6A posted:Or you need to be working instead of living off investment income. Either way, if you lose it all or even a significant chunk of what you had, you either had very little to begin with or were really, really stupid. That's what I was inferring. 
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Sep 21, 2015 21:37
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Cultural Imperial posted:Lmao are you kidding me? Single moms are garbage humans. Especially in Vancouver Isn't everyone in Vancouver a garbage human, though?
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Sep 21, 2015 21:56
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I say some stupid poo poo on here, but unless you guys have a solution for how north of 60% of Canada's rental stock is amateur landlords and basement suites then you've really surpassed me with your dumbass assertions over here. We have a nation-wide housing crisis as it is without that kind of stupid poo poo. The solution is expropriating property from slumlords on the regular, if they are found guilty of Bylaw or Tenancy violations again after a round of heavy ($10k+ fines), and putting it under the management of a provincial housing authority. gently caress your libertarian tears, your property is up for grabs for the good of the state if you gently caress up too often, bitch. 
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Sep 21, 2015 22:01
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Small scale rental is seen as a solution to low vacancy, while at least in the GVRD almost no municipality has the resources to adequately oversight suites (North Vancouver apparently does alright, but was closing one illegal suite a day last I heard). Meanwhile people are renovating single family homes into 3 unit rental properties because the initial cost of the property is so high (my favorite "suite" had a kitchen where the laundry room was, with a laundry tub for a sink and 2 2x4's for a counter with a fridge in another room). Meanwhile these types of rentals increase the number of RTA incidences far more than property management companies do, making people even less likely to try to lodge a complaint given how long arbitration takes.
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Sep 21, 2015 23:19
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My favourite is when looking at rental places and the tenant wants a one month security deposit. It's doubly stupid because not only is that illegal in BC (it was a no pets place), but they're more likely to attract bad tenants who see someone who's obviously got no idea how rental laws work and so is going to try and take advantage.
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Sep 21, 2015 23:28
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Municipalities should build and maintain rental housing stocks. At worst, the municipal government loses a little bit of money while making the city a better place to live. At best, the government has a modest ROI that it can use to fund more housing, or other things it needs to spend money on. EDIT: The idea that you are forbidden from taking a security deposit is insane. I don't know why anyone would rent out their own property on a small-scale basis, it seems so risky and the return seem so questionable.
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Sep 21, 2015 23:30
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PT6A posted:Municipalities should build and maintain rental housing stocks. At worst, the municipal government loses a little bit of money while making the city a better place to live. At best, the government has a modest ROI that it can use to fund more housing, or other things it needs to spend money on. This is what Germany, Austria do and is especially widespread in Vienna. It mainly works becomes new rentals get subsidized with tax dollars and in Vienna the city, not private investors owns a majority of the properties.
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Sep 22, 2015 00:34
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PT6A posted:EDIT: The idea that you are forbidden from taking a security deposit is insane. I don't know why anyone would rent out their own property on a small-scale basis, it seems so risky and the return seem so questionable. If you're replying to me you're not forbidden to take a security deposit, you're forbidden from taking a security deposit that's more than half a month's rent. Unless you allow pets, in which case you can take a full month's rent deposit.
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Sep 22, 2015 01:03
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HookShot posted:If you're replying to me you're not forbidden to take a security deposit, you're forbidden from taking a security deposit that's more than half a month's rent. Unless you allow pets, in which case you can take a full month's rent deposit. Half a month's rent seems reasonable. I thought it might be a prohibition on security deposits altogether (I believe Quebec does not allow them in any form, except possibly for pets, on the basis that I never had to pay one). The tenancy laws in Quebec are excellent, but it beggars belief that there are any private landlords that want to operate in such an environment (not a bad thing!).
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Sep 22, 2015 01:08
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http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/fin21-eng.htm Banks, mortgage and loan companies have almost or have doubled their exposure to residential mortgage credit since 2010. On the other hand, pensions are backing away slowly.
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Sep 22, 2015 05:34
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Cultural Imperial posted:http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/fin21-eng.htm Why not it's a government back profitable business?
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Sep 22, 2015 05:58
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etalian posted:Why not it's a government back profitable business? yep This is a good read. http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/harper-on-the-housing-market-what-bubble/
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Sep 22, 2015 05:59
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I remember this thread having a article on how the mortgage business is insanely profitable for Canadian banks. As a result due to the bubble it took the lion share of the bank's revenue stream and as a added bonus the government backs the loans. You also have US bubble like great ideas such as securitizing home loans into "safe" investments.
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Sep 22, 2015 06:50
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Sometimes I wonder if it would've been better to just not say anything about these lending practices. Perhaps the policy-makers drinking the Kool-Aid -- without the constant warnings from other countries, banks, and economists -- would have let the bubble explode through sheer incompetence instead of defiantly inflating it further.
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Sep 22, 2015 08:15
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Cultural Imperial posted:http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/fin21-eng.htm Number isn't high enough. Each of the major banks has just under a T-note in assets, I want to see that wiped out for each bank individually when this implodes.
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Sep 22, 2015 08:26
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Lexicon posted:Good points all around, particularly the social angle. I made this realization after a dental hygienist started talking to me about her rental property while she was working on me. I realized that I couldn't talk to her about my stock portfolio, partly because she probably wouldn't understand (nothing against her - she was clearly smart. I really liked her. But most people don't take the time to learn about investing in the stock market), but also because it's too closely related to money, so it's a taboo social topic. I think most people want their investments to give them at least SOME immediate social gain. Sure, they want the eventual payoff in the end too, but real estate gives both, at least in most people's mind.
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Sep 22, 2015 15:22
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It's hilarious that money is a taboo topic with white people. The white part of my family are loving retarded with the management of their money and its mindblowingly stupid considering the free advice they'd get since members of said family work in loving finance.
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Sep 22, 2015 15:47
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Cultural Imperial posted:It's hilarious that money is a taboo topic with white people. The white part of my family are loving retarded with the management of their money and its mindblowingly stupid considering the free advice they'd get since members of said family work in loving finance. Fyi it's only taboo among the ruling class. The rest of us talk about money pretty openly, because we don't have any. hth
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Sep 22, 2015 16:11
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Rime posted:I say some stupid poo poo on here, but unless you guys have a solution for how north of 60% of Canada's rental stock is amateur landlords and basement suites then you've really surpassed me with your dumbass assertions over here. There was an article I read a couple weeks ago about a lovely neighbourhood in a US city that reminded me of this. From what I remember, the city basically gave millions of dollars to a neighbourhood association or something like that to buy up a bunch of the lovely rental properties. Once they bought a property, they would renovate it and then rent it out as low income housing or something like that and keep maintaining them. It had a ton of positive effects (reduced crime, more housing for low income families obviously, etc), wish I could find the article.
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Sep 23, 2015 03:11
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You guys clearly have no idea what BC housing does and the loving bullshit they have had to deal with in the last 15 years from idiot organizations like the Portland hotel society.
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Sep 23, 2015 03:17
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lol http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/2...ue#photo-688498 
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Sep 23, 2015 03:18
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I'm not sure what's worse: the price for that, or the fact that I've seen similar "vintage structures" listed in Vancouver that were significantly more expensive. Admittedly, that might not be true for much longer with the current USD/CAD exchange rate.
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Sep 23, 2015 16:52
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PT6A posted:Half a month's rent seems reasonable. I thought it might be a prohibition on security deposits altogether (I believe Quebec does not allow them in any form, except possibly for pets, on the basis that I never had to pay one). The tenancy laws in Quebec are excellent, but it beggars belief that there are any private landlords that want to operate in such an environment (not a bad thing!). It's illegal in Ontario too (you can collect last months rent but not for damages or anything)
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Sep 23, 2015 20:16
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I'm amazed at what one of my good friends has done. I just found out when he was a student he had a summer job that paid fairly well for the time. He took out a 35 yr mortgage and bought a house in Peterborough using some magic to trick the banks into thinking he had a permanent full time job when he didn't. He then immediately rented out the top part of the house to someone and lived out of the basement while he got through school with the house effectively paying for itself. Once he finished school he went back with his parents, saved up a downpayment and bought another house in Etobicoke. He rented out the basement for about 900 bucks out of 2100 on his mortgage. He makes $500 off the rent of his original house after mortgage and taxes and he uses it toward his personal utilities (cellphone internet etc) with his salary handling the rest. You know what I did when I got a job at 23? I spent most of my money on a car and then consumed most of it on booze, nightclubs and fancy meals. Say what you will about the housing bubble, this loving broke the system with some help from his parents.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:35
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Kraftwerk posted:You know what I did when I got a job at 23? I spent most of my money on a car and then consumed most of it on booze, nightclubs and fancy meals. Say what you will about the housing bubble, this loving broke the system with some help from his parents. Amazing! To think all you need is to commit fraud and get lucky that no unforseen repairs or expenses (or a lack of tenants) comes up and you too could pay the bank 5 or 6 years of interest on a 35 year mortgage.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:50
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rip the canadian pesoquote:The Canadian dollar briefly dropped to its lowest level since July 2004 on Wednesday, changing hands at 74.88 cents US.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:51
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That's the thing about bubbles. You either look like a genius for getting in, or a fool for sitting out. Right up until the situation reverses itself very quickly.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:55
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quote:"The only thing that's been keeping the loonie afloat is good domestic data and retail sales today were soft," currency analyst Adam Button of ForexLive said. "If that's the start of a series of poor economic reports, then the outlook is dire."
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Sep 24, 2015 01:14
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Oh man, we're trading at the lowest in a decade and they still consider that to be "afloat"? This is going to be good. 
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Sep 24, 2015 01:43
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Good to know that if I find some US bills at the bottom of some drawer then I'm richer than I think I am.
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Sep 24, 2015 02:52
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