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Archonex posted:Because this thread is a gold mine of stupidity and fun. Ummm, I just called out that using Huey was a very poor example. He is a pretty awful person and he did quite a few things that are far worse than torture. Doesn't make torture right, but if you had any concept of context, you would understand why he isn't a good example if you want sympathy. It would be like making Osama Bin Laden a posterchild for denying a suspect due process.
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Sep 21, 2015 21:44
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Grinning Goblin posted:Ummm, I just called out that using Huey was a very poor example. He is a pretty awful person and he did quite a few things that are far worse than torture. Doesn't make torture right, but if you had any concept of context, you would understand why he isn't a good example if you want sympathy. It would be like making Osama Bin Laden a posterchild for denying a suspect due process. Kind of proving my point here about why this is so funny. People explained why that's kind of a hosed up way to view things a few posts back. Edit: I was going to bold parts of that to show how off kilter that is, but gently caress it. Let the entirety of the post stand as it is. There's not a line that isn't kind of hosed up and missing the point Ground Zeroes and TPP were making. Archonex fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 21:48
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ImpAtom posted:You do know that someone can do good things and still be a pretty bad person, right? There are many infamous leaders worldwide who provisioned for welfare, taking care of orphans and helping the needy and also were complete shitlords. Big Boss did nothing wrong though
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Sep 21, 2015 21:52
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a new secret chapter 3 cutscene datamind! titled mission 60! D: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjmCXWrGYp0
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Sep 21, 2015 21:55
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Vengarr posted:Big Boss did nothing wrong though Being a war profiteer who kills people for money (and even if Boss doesn't do it himself the guys he sends out on combat ops sure do) and who makes up his army of fellow war profiteers or worse and regularly engages in torture. Like even if you assume the bare minimum, that Big Boss is a perfect angel who never kills anyone and does the optimal best thing in every situation, he's still a war profiteer.
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Sep 21, 2015 21:59
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ImpAtom posted:Being a war profiteer who kills people for money (and even if Boss doesn't do it himself the guys he sends out on combat ops sure do) and who makes up his army of fellow war profiteers or worse and regularly engages in torture. Making money from war is good and cool, as demonstrated by Metal Gear Solid V -- The Phantom Pain, A Hideo Kojima Game. It all gets invested back into saving child soldiers from conflict zones and monthly birthday parties.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:04
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Yeah but the child soldiers exist because of the war profiteering in the first place. One of the first things you see when you get to Africa is a CFA soldier training a bunch of child soldiers.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:08
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Big Boss's reputation with child soldiers ain't exactly great going off the other games. You can make an argument for Venom Boss but even then Miller is basically the only one keeping Venom Boss from turning them into soldiers. Also Venom Boss' child soldier lineup doesn't end very well either TBH. At best they end up running away, at worst they all die a horrible death.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:12
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Hey kids! Would you like to kill a bunch of South African shitheads in the jungle with no food and no Xbox? Or would you rather join Uncle Big Boss's War Emporium where you can kill people all over the world and get free food and money for it?Vikar Jerome posted:a new secret chapter 3 cutscene datamind! titled mission 60! D: This is good. This is very good.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:12
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The proxy wars are caused by the Cold War, not by the mercenaries. They're just tools of the feuding superpowers, which is why Miller holds them in contempt. Worst thing you can accuse Big Boss of is that he never has an epiphany that conflict is meaningless and we must all put down our guns and live in harmony as citizens of the Earth.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:13
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Vengarr posted:Worst thing you can accuse Big Boss of is that he never has an epiphany that conflict is meaningless and we must all put down our guns and live in harmony as citizens of the Earth. ... Well, and all the murder and nuclear weapon stealing and attempts to get his clone-son killed and world domination. I'd say "Venom Snake comes off better" but he's party to at least most of that before Solid Snake kills his rear end.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:14
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Even then, I think he has that epiphany at the end of MGS4 in his last hour of life, after the big mess he and Zero made finally got all cleaned up.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:15
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The end of MGS4 is basically Big Boss having a deathbed conversion and realizing that the only positive thing he's contributed to the world is his son.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:17
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ChaosArgate posted:Even then, I think he has that epiphany at the end of MGS4 in his last hour of life, after the big mess he and Zero made finally got all cleaned up. Oh yeah. Guess he really did do nothing wrong. Funky Valentine posted:The end of MGS4 is basically Big Boss having a deathbed conversion and realizing that the only positive thing he's contributed to the world is his son. All the brain damage from getting burned alive made him forget that one time he saved the world, and that other time he saved the world, and that one time he saved the world twice "Oh yeah, your rear end would be radioactive particles in the breeze if it weren't for me" is a powerful counter-argument IMO
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Sep 21, 2015 22:20
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Vengarr posted:"Oh yeah, your rear end would be radioactive particles in the breeze if it weren't for me" is a powerful counter-argument IMO Your rear end would also be radioactive particles in the breeze because of him if someone else hadn't stopped him so... There isn't really a villain in the series who hasn't also contributed in some way towards stopping a different threat. The closest I guess is Liquid Snake who is just total shitlord.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:21
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Grinning Goblin posted:Ummm, I just called out that using Huey was a very poor example. He is a pretty awful person and he did quite a few things that are far worse than torture. Doesn't make torture right, but if you had any concept of context, you would understand why he isn't a good example if you want sympathy. It would be like making Osama Bin Laden a posterchild for denying a suspect due process. It's interesting that you make this comparison because a couple of weeks back it came to light that a UK politician had said "hey, it was kind of hosed up how the US just iced bin Laden without trial, we should be better than that" and the media response was as though he said "BIN LADEN DID NOTHING WRONG". Everyone in MGSV is a piece of poo poo.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:22
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Party Boat posted:"hey, it was kind of hosed up how the US just iced bin Laden without trial, we should be better than that"
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Sep 21, 2015 22:22
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Also if Big Boss never created the patriots then Skull Face probably wouldn't have been able to accumulate the resources and Intel to carry out his plan.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:25
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ImpAtom posted:Your rear end would also be radioactive particles in the breeze because of him if someone else hadn't stopped him so... Well he sort of helped in MGSV when he took over metal gear salanthropus and made it go berserk instead of whatever skullface's intricate plan was.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:25
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Helping the world doesn't excuse trying to turn it into poo poo.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:29
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"There was the Peace Walker incident -" "Peace Walker killed itself." "Well, then there was the ZEKE -" "You built ZEKE, it doesn't count if you caused it." "...Skull Face and Sahelanthro-" "That wasn't even you!"
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Sep 21, 2015 22:31
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Morality isn't a sliding scale like in kotor, it's two scales like in Mass Effect, to use a videogame analogy.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:37
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My favorite thing about the child soldiers thing is when they escape Miller goes THEY KNOW TOO MUCH ABOUT OUR OPERATION YOU GOTTA BRING THEM BACK. Like, Kaz, what exactly were you planning on doing with them after they finished that education/job training whatever you set up?
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Sep 21, 2015 22:38
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It's obviously a loving horn of human bone sticking out of your brain, to use THIS GAME's analogy. edit: They will be mother bases veterinarians. All of them. For the thousands of sheep and goats that have been Fultoned.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:38
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Snak posted:edit: They will be mother bases veterinarians. All of them. For the thousands of sheep and goats that have been Fultoned.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:40
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I'm glad Huey got his stupid rear end tortured because I don't like him. I feel this way because he is not real. Also BB is a hero because he's like the only person that doesn't poo poo world-destroying weapons and parasites every morning. Like without BB who's stopping cipher and skullface? loving Miller? lol
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Sep 21, 2015 22:43
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You know what would have been worse than mission 43? If there was a mission where all your goats got the goat strain of the vocal chord parasites and you had to walk around and kill all your goats. It would be like MGSV's mirror version of The Sorrow, since the more goats you have, the more you'd have to "euthanize". edit:^ I'm really uncomfortable with the torture, but would have loved for him to be executed. gently caress that guy.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:44
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Snak posted:You know what would have been worse than mission 43? If there was a mission where all your goats got the goat strain of the vocal chord parasites and you had to walk around and kill all your goats. It would be like MGSV's mirror version of The Sorrow, since the more goats you have, the more you'd have to "euthanize". Like poo poo, they could have just killed him and have it turn out that Hal got adopted by whoever Strangelove handed him off to. The reasoning for keeping him alive being we don't judge enemies are loving stupid, considering they killed Skullface for being an enemy.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:47
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OatmealRaisin posted:My favorite thing about the child soldiers thing is when they escape Miller goes THEY KNOW TOO MUCH ABOUT OUR OPERATION YOU GOTTA BRING THEM BACK. Become D rank soldiers and get slaughtered in the first mission Venom sends them on, most likely. The child soldier thing is neat because they're introduced in a way that shows that okay, yeah, maybe Venom and Kaz have some decency in them. They literally fake their deaths and potentially extract the first batch you encounter while all hell is busy raining down on them. Then they get them back to base and from the way it steadily goes downhill from there it's apparent that whatever good they've got in them isn't enough to outweigh the fact that they're bastards at heart. And utterly terrible at taking care of children. But that's something else entirely. What gets me is the way that Kaz keeps harping on saving the children. Like it's going to matter if you're basically going to keep them prisoner on a glorified oil rig for the rest of their lives if they don't join your side and go fight for you once they're all grown up. That's just trading one flavor of terrible child abuse for another. Archonex fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 22:47
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lovely Wizard posted:Like poo poo, they could have just killed him and have it turn out to be adopted by whoever Strangelove handed him off to. The reasoning for keeping him alive being we don't judge enemies are loving stupid, considering they killed Skullface for being an enemy. Yeah, I mean, "we don't judge enemies" we just loving kill them because we're profession loving soldiers. That whole scene was like, one of my least favorite ones of the game because it was physically impossible for me to roll my eyes hard enough.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:48
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lovely Wizard posted:Like poo poo, they could have just killed him and have it turn out that Hal got adopted by whoever Strangelove handed him off to. The reasoning for keeping him alive being we don't judge enemies are loving stupid, considering they killed Skullface for being an enemy.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:50
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Snak posted:It's obviously a loving horn of human bone sticking out of your brain, to use THIS GAME's analogy. And by the time MG rolls around Venom has so completely rejected the idea of peace that Paz's blackened femur has popped all the way out of his skull. Dude probably sharpened it to a point and left it buried in a kitten somewhere.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:54
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Snak posted:It's obviously a loving horn of human bone sticking out of your brain, to use THIS GAME's analogy. Wait, is that supposed to be human bone? I thought it was a chunk of metal in his head. I figured all the human bone pieces were tiny fragments/teeth.
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Sep 21, 2015 22:58
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OatmealRaisin posted:My favorite thing about the child soldiers thing is when they escape Miller goes THEY KNOW TOO MUCH ABOUT OUR OPERATION YOU GOTTA BRING THEM BACK. You think those burgers are going to flip themselves over? 
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Sep 21, 2015 23:01
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Harrow posted:Wait, is that supposed to be human bone? I thought it was a chunk of metal in his head. I figured all the human bone pieces were tiny fragments/teeth. I thought so too at first but when you see what happened on the helicopter again at the end of truth Venom clearly has the horn right after Paz blows up but before the helicopter crashes. It doesn't really look like bone but dumber things have happened in Metal Gear and it would play in well to all the Paz hallucination bullshit going on.
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Sep 21, 2015 23:04
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I really wish the 2nd half of the game wasn't lame re-hashes of the same missions with special modes. I could appreciate it if they had done this for every mission, but no its just random.
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Sep 21, 2015 23:08
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Harrow posted:Wait, is that supposed to be human bone? I thought it was a chunk of metal in his head. I figured all the human bone pieces were tiny fragments/teeth.  You can see it in Ahab's head after Paz explodes but before the chopper crashes into the other one. It could just be shrapnel from the helicopter that she just blew up 2 feet away from but bone is more  HEAVY METAL than just plain ol shrapnel so I'm fine with it being either.
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Sep 21, 2015 23:13
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The horn has a lot of texture and rough edges that make it look like scorched bone to me, and also:MechanicalTomPetty posted:...when you see what happened on the helicopter again at the end of truth Venom clearly has the horn right after Paz blows up but before the helicopter crashes.
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Sep 21, 2015 23:13
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Vengarr posted:I like the one conversation you can overhear where one of the pilots complains that riding a Walker Gear is hell on his knees. My D-Walker has been a more effective killing tool than all Metal Gear models combined
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Sep 21, 2015 23:14
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i just read that mission where you rescue the xo from a group of child soldiers who mutinied? the loving xo mumbles about how you look like his commander and you get the word solidus after the mission for the emblem maker. is that true? i must of missed this. D: also this is good view of the game http://www.gamesradar.com/mgs5-unfinished-s-entirely-point/ oh and gamers are still morons and can't read visual language or read with the usual proof in the comments section, so games will never be art now mgs is over. more at 11. Vikar Jerome fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 23:15
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