|
Speedball posted:Hmm, Solidus in this game? Would be interesting... I no-poo poo thought for the longest time that Eli was going to be Raiden. Same basic look, same basic timeframe and gently caress his dumb coat even has Japanese graffitied over it.
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 02:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 06:20 |
|
|
Liberia is also 2,000 miles away from Angola, but I guess it's not like they can't take their super-long-range helicopter there or something. Mostly I just want more John Cygan chewing up scenery.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 02:38
|
|
|
Whoa. Wife Turds posted:This plot was a riddled, meandering, pointless piece of poo poo even by lofty/goofy/awkward/autistic MG standards (and by MG standards it was certainly low/pointless/inscrutable stakes) but goddamn this is actually a hilariously brilliant explanation for Venom's dumbass decision to airlift an intact dangerous robot (nukelessness notwitstanding-- pretty sure Venom explicitly states that it has no nuke so NBD GUYZ). If there's one thing Kojima is undeniably brilliant at it's bringing his spergy brand of humor to these games in subtle ways and now that I consider it OF COURSE HE TAKES THE ROBOT -- HE/THE PLAYER TAKES ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING THAT ISN'T NAILED DOWN. It's icing on the cake that the player is like "dude....why'd you have to do that?" after they have (if they're anything like my OCD-laden rear end) presumably spent the previous 10s of hours obsessively grabbing all manner of impractical poo poo whether it's needed or not. I enjoy actually playing this so much that I'm delighted when I find bright spots in what is otherwise a totally unsatisfying mess of story and characters. Was I the only one who was annoyed that the plan wasn't to turn it into D-Gear from the start? If he just wanted a trophy, they could have just taken the head. Metal Gear D. That sounds familiar.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 02:49
|
|
|
This game wasted the golden opportunity to have a scene in which Miller asks Eli if he likes his sunglasses.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 02:49
|
|
|
I want to thank whoever posted that Super Bunnyhop review, if only for the goldmine of comments    I've only been exposed to the polarizing opinions through the Games threads, where people have largely reasonable, valid complaints with balanced discussion, but this is just  I even poked my head into the r/Games thread for the video because I had a sudden onset of the not-fun kind of masochism, and boy i didn't realize this many people have rose-tinted goggles about the mechanics and controls of the old games. I'm still disappointed with the video itself, though. I think SBP's done a lot of top-notch stuff, but he has a bad habit of going down very cynical roads, and even by the standards of his borderline-smug cynical stuff, this just came off as really shallow critique and veiled one-upsmanship of other reviewers. There's a lot to critique in this game, but he wasn't bringing much new perspective besides his ending interpretation (which was good) and a whole lot of surface-level stuff that people have expressed a thousand times already. Also that critique of the objectives made some sense but still felt pretty hollow, it would have been better if he gave more examples of creative objectives than "Ground Zeroes did this puzzle thing that matters for all of one playthrough". As it stands it's just as lame as every other "this action/stealth game is just about going from A to B and having targets and it's all a checklist!" arguments that miss the forest for the trees, especially in the case of Phantom Pain where those simple objectives and how you're encouraged to accomplish them feed into larger systems that 99% of other games of its ilk wouldn't even think to have. Eh, the comments are still funny so it's not a total waste, just disappointing after his quite good critique of Ground Zeroes' story.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 02:54
|
|
|
In It For The Tank posted:This game wasted the golden opportunity to have a scene in which Miller asks Eli if he likes his sunglasses. Well, we got Ocelot manhandling Eli's right arm. Actually a lot of people manhandle Eli's arm. Like they know it's evil or something.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 02:54
|
|
|
In It For The Tank posted:This game wasted the golden opportunity to have a scene in which Miller asks Eli if he likes his sunglasses. We need a tape where it mentions incidents of Eli being disruptive, with one of them being that he stole Miller's sunglasses
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 02:57
|
|
|
khwarezm posted:I watched this video as a person that hasn't played the series since 2 (apart from revengeance) but was aware of what happens in later games from LPs from people like Chip Cheezum. The video seemed to work perfectly fine for somebody like myself who generally doesn't care too much about spoilers and offered a counterpoint to the typically ultra-positive views you usually get with high profile releases of this kind, I don't know what standards of Insight and analysis you are holding this to but the first ten minutes show how he thought the background of the series tied into what the game was trying to say and how it re-frames those games, as well as picking up on little details such as the technology, music or references to things like 1984 to suggest what the overall message was, as a review and analysis it seems fine, the first part is quite divested from his general disappointment. If you're going to treat it as a review, it's near useless as it is filled with spoilers. There's only a very tiny sub set of people who will want to watch a review which shows every single important scene in a game. So it must be treated as an analytical piece, in which case it says nothing of any substance to anyone who's played the game to the end, just repeats the immediate guy reaction of the ending. It's a masturbatory disappointment fest for people who don't want to give the game a second thought after they hit the end credits. Its pornography for metal gear fans who wished they got the TPP they imagined from the trailers rather than accepting what we have and reading/analyzing from there. It's designed to be shared among metal gear fan sites as a validation of their own trite opinion. It's worthless to anyone other than people who want to wallow in a sense of disappointment and manufactured outrage
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:09
|
|
|
Whoa. Wife Turds posted:This plot was a riddled, meandering, pointless piece of poo poo even by lofty/goofy/awkward/autistic MG standards (and by MG standards it was certainly low/pointless/inscrutable stakes) but goddamn this is actually a hilariously brilliant explanation for Venom's dumbass decision to airlift an intact dangerous robot (nukelessness notwitstanding-- pretty sure Venom explicitly states that it has no nuke so NBD GUYZ). If there's one thing Kojima is undeniably brilliant at it's bringing his spergy brand of humor to these games in subtle ways and now that I consider it OF COURSE HE TAKES THE ROBOT -- HE/THE PLAYER TAKES ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING THAT ISN'T NAILED DOWN. It's icing on the cake that the player is like "dude....why'd you have to do that?" after they have (if they're anything like my OCD-laden rear end) presumably spent the previous 10s of hours obsessively grabbing all manner of impractical poo poo whether it's needed or not. I enjoy actually playing this so much that I'm delighted when I find bright spots in what is otherwise a totally unsatisfying mess of story and characters. Huh. You're gonna extract HIM?
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:11
|
|
|
Yeah Bro posted:It's worthless to anyone other than people who want to wallow in a sense of disappointment and manufactured outrage A sense of disappointment is how mgs5's plot/overall storyline deserves to be treated hth Game good, story bad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:15
|
|
|
I agree with most of Super Bunnyhop says. In terms of just sheer gameplay MGSV is, hands down, one of the greatest games ever made. Everything about the gameplay is nearly perfect, and all you're left with are nitpicks. I'll agree that the gameplay may be artificially padded out a bit, I was certainly dealing with a big of fatigue near the end myself. But the story isn't anywhere close to the standards of a Metal Gear game. Chapter 1 would be probably the weakest of all the stories in that it just feels like a generic plot of 'bad guy wants to do bad thing' and not the usual nuances of seventeen different gambits piling up that Metal Gear is known for. Chapter 2 is disjointed and, though the individual pieces are good, don't have much flow. Emmerich's trial and exile, Quiet's resolution, the second outbreak, all of those are great pieces as they stand. I don't particularly mind the twist because, on some regards crazy batshit mindfucks come with the territory of Metal Gear, I just don't particularly like it because, like the Giant Spoilercast on GiantBomb said, it came near the end and changed nothing. It's well foreshadowed if you're looking out for it, but you could easily put the real Big Boss in there and practically nothing would reasonably change- except probably more one-liners and such, as Big Boss likes to do. If anything, I don't like it because I feel like it's just wasted potential. Kojima could have done something really really cool with it if the game had just gone on a little longer, but in the end it just feels to me like Kojima was determined to give you one last goodbye twist. Which is appreciated, it's obviously a heartfelt goodbye, but I just want to see the fallout.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:16
|
|
|
CJacobs posted:A sense of disappointment is how mgs5's plot/overall storyline deserves to be treated hth My immediate gut reaction says this is bad, I won't analyze it in any meaningful way, instead resorting to memes and mental shortcuts to avoid having to accept that my gut reaction was ill founded. Full disclosure: I didn't like the story at first, I felt it was lacking. Then, over the course of a week I thought about my reaction, why I felt the way I did and if there was more to the story than I had initially allowed myself to consider. In giving the game a mental second chance, I found a lot to like about the narrative, it was far more clever than I initially gave it credit for. I didn't set out with an aim to like the game, but through reading it textually, I learned to appreciate it. Y'all should drop the rhetoric and let yourselves read.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:25
|
|
|
V has my favorite stealth in a video game since the first time I played MGS3.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:32
|
|
|
Yeah Bro posted:My immediate gut reaction says this is bad, I won't analyze it in any meaningful way, instead resorting to memes and mental shortcuts to avoid having to accept that my gut reaction was ill founded. I finished the game like a week and a half ago, I have given it enough time to consider the story beats and how they fall into place and a sense of disappointment was still my conclusion. I don't agree with you and you are acting like I am wrong for feeling that way and it really just makes you sound like an rear end in a top hat
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:33
|
|
|
While the open stealth segments were great gameplay probably the more emotionally impactful parts were the more scripted areas. The hour-long intro, the Devil's House, and "Quarantine Strut Has Become A Nightmare" missions. I kinda wish we had just a couple more of those. And Quiet is way more badass when she has proper clothes. C'mon, Kojima. "Going nonlethal lets you add guys to your arsenal" is a great reason for it, I love it. I'm racking my brain trying to think up a game that has the "go nonlethal and add guys to your force" mechanic that doesn't imply brainwashing, and I think... what if instead of building a private army, in this hypothetical game, you were disarming soldiers so they could have normal jobs again. That would also provide a tidy explanation for why nobody fights at your side and they just support you logistically. Go and fight no more, soldier! Speedball fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Sep 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:34
|
|
|
quote:It's a masturbatory disappointment fest for people who don't want to give the game a second thought after they hit the end credits. Its pornography for metal gear fans who wished they got the TPP they imagined from the trailers rather than accepting what we have and reading/analyzing from there. It's designed to be shared among metal gear fan sites as a validation of their own trite opinion. Sorry, this is really stupid, he gives the game a fair shake, spends the first half of the review going over what he thought the game was trying to say in a neutral and maybe even fairly positive manner, before concluding about how he feels its let down by the cuts, compromises and wonky characterizations. Now obviously I haven't played the game but I'm really not getting a feeling of  THOSE FUCKERS RUINED EVERYTHING type fanboyism from this that you seem to want to assign to him.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:36
|
|
|
6+ months from now it'll be interesting what people think. It's like how Bioshock: infinite's hype dropped over time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:37
|
|
|
CJacobs posted:I finished the game like a week and a half ago, I have given it enough time to consider the story beats and how they fall into place and a sense of disappointment was still my conclusion. I don't agree with you and you are acting like I am wrong for feeling that way and it really just makes you sound like an rear end in a top hat Then articulate how the story was disappointing. I am not saying you can't have other opinions, just that they need to be backed by something concrete. (don't bring in extradtextual information, i.e. knowledge of cut content, or complaints about how the ludic systems impeded the telling of the story. Just the story in isolation, thanks in advance) khwarezm posted:Sorry, this is really stupid, he gives the game a fair shake, spends the first half of the review going over what he thought the game was trying to say in a neutral and maybe even fairly positive manner, before concluding about how he feels its let down by the cuts, compromises and wonky characterizations. Now obviously I haven't played the game but I'm really not getting a feeling of He doesn't really do much analytically, mostly it's just a recount of the events of the text, without any semblance of critical thought applied to it. After that is a short section where it looks like he might go analytical with it, but he reads a small part of it, and incorrectly (as in the text all but screams the opposite) before talking about industry pressures, broken promises, "kojima lied" bullshit and also more sort of consumer review stuff which is meaningless in a video designed for people who've already played through the game to completion. Of course he doesn't adopt a whingeing tone, it wouldn't fit the image he has built for his web-programme; but it is effectively "intellectual" validation for people who feel burned by this game.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:43
|
|
|
Chapter 2 being cutting room scraps is equally heartbreaking as it is awfully presented but being mad at the twist is silly for two reasons. The first is that the entire thematic point is that you are really Big Boss. More Big Boss than Naked Snake even. The second is that Naked Snake in the 80s doesn't fit the archetype for a MGS main character Snake: to be a Snake, you need to be a dupe. Naked Snake has ascended to the level of doing the controling, meaning we need another idiot to play as dupe for the actual movers and shakers, thus the invention of the Vth Snake clone, Venom. E. Chapter 1 is great from an outline view but its actual integration with gameplay is awful. Its like foreshadowing foreshadowing, quick main character cameo, foreshadowing INFO DUMP. Repeat for the next map. zedprime fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Sep 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:48
|
|
|
Sky Shadowing posted:I agree with most of Super Bunnyhop says. In terms of just sheer gameplay MGSV is, hands down, one of the greatest games ever made. Everything about the gameplay is nearly perfect, and all you're left with are nitpicks. I'll agree that the gameplay may be artificially padded out a bit, I was certainly dealing with a big of fatigue near the end myself. I just finished the game and I kind of felt like I knew what was up in the beginning because Ishmael was too bad-rear end to not be Big Boss after Peace Walker. At first I pegged him to be a hallucination, an interpretation of Big Bosses' skills, but he did too much poo poo. Since Kojima pulled the 'playing as one protagonist but you're REALLY playing as this protagonist' once before, the end result was kinda meh. It works for the overall tying his games together in one final bow but it really doesn't if you're trying to tell the fall of Big Boss. Not that I blame him. He knew this was the series' swan song and it makes a lot of sense to do it plus a message for the player (Big Boss is inside all of you! Though I'm not sure a mercenary fascist is someone I'd want to emulate). I also like how it lingered on 'Big Boss Dies' in 2014 just to make you doubt it a little bit. Also, I have to hand it to Kojima, he tied his insane bullshit universe together which he probably never imagined when he was just developing random games for the MSX forever ago. I liked the vocal chord parasite stuff, but I love weird biology stuff so that worked. I wished there was more with that. I also feel like he was kind of constrained by tying everything to the earlier games. What more could he have done with the story? I guess he could have stretched it out more, but the saga was basically completed with 4. There really wasn't much to tell with this, which is why I feel like it was so game-play oriented. A lot of MGS games relied on revelation and at this point, pretty much everything was revealed. Even Peace Walker was light on story, for this reason as well. You can't really introduce new pieces of story that break the old pieces, so you keep poo poo down to what would fit. Which obviously limits the scope somewhat. And I honestly don't think Kojima's strength lies in small narratives but grand sweeping stories. If you've already revealed what happens later, it is very difficult to do this. Its a bit of that and a bit of this weird, not even prequel but sort of mid-quel type story-telling. Also, is it worth playing through Quiet's last two missions? 40 whatever and Side Op 150 or just have her stick around forever? I wasn't planning on doing them, just watching them on youtube. Dapper Dan fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Sep 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:53
|
|
|
People still haven't unlocked the true true ending, where the entire Metal Gear series is revealed to be Sunny telling the story of her family to her class, who by the time she starts telling them about "the time Uncle Dave killed Grandpa Big Boss with some hairspray" are thoroughly traumatized.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:56
|
|
|
I'm alright with the twist of Venom not being the real Snake but then again I was spoiled on it before the game came out. I imagine I would have absolutely hated it if I got to see it going in blind. My friend hated it and texted 'HE PLAYED US LIKE A drat FIDDLE" as soon as he got there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 03:56
|
|
|
Yeah Bro posted:Then articulate how the story was disappointing. I am not saying you can't have other opinions, just that they need to be backed by something concrete. I already did earlier in the thread but I'll list some of my complaints again anyway: - Starting with the most important/pivotal one: I didn't like the twist that Big Boss in this game is Ahab because the game outright lies to you several times in the intro to cover it up (making both of Ishmael's eyes be fine, outright omitting part of a scene that happened in reality) and any twist that requires you to lie to the player without any reason other than to hide the twist is a poorly executed one. For another example look to the twist that Isaac Clarke's girlfriend was dead the whole time in Dead Space: You interact with her in person a few times- she is able to flip switches, open doors, and at one point retrieve a plot item from across a gap for you. You see her do this and she is able to be hurt and killed by enemies during these sequences. The game later writes this off as you having been nuts and imagined her doing so but if that's the case why can she die? It lies to the player to cover up that she really is dead and it's poorly handled. - The story is far too sparse for the amount of video game there is- I did five hours of main missions at one point without seeing a single cutscene to explain the effects of what I had been doing, and even then the only reason a cutscene happened is because the final mission I did was to abduct Eli and they couldn't get away with not having one after that. You say not to complain about how the game itself impedes on telling the story but the story is why I am doing what I'm doing in the game so it's kind of important to explain those things as they come. - Ocelot serves no purpose in the story other than to be the angel on Big Boss' shoulder to Miller's devil; he never takes a single action that develops his character in any direction we haven't already seen or heard of him (likes torture, soft spot for children, smooth talker, spy). After he saves Big Boss in the introduction he gets shafted into absolute minimum screentime territory unless a torture scene is happening and even then he takes the position that Big Boss could be standing in during every one: He does the torturing until he gets what he wants or someone else tells him to stop, but even when he doesn't get what he wants he just gives up and walks off because they have to diffuse the dramatic tension without loving up their own story- this happens specifically in the case of when he is torturing Huey with the acid and it was very jarring. - Battle Gear is literally never used. Never. They make a huge point out of how Huey being able to build Battle Gear is his early leverage for staying on the base and getting out of being tortured and after he starts building it, the plot point is completely dropped for the rest of the game and that is just inexcusable. - Quiet being an optional recruit means her part in the story is completely negligible despite her being the catalyst of one of the most important plot points (having the final English strain of the virus in her body). If you kill her instead of taking her to Mother Base you miss out on that whole portion of the story, which means that they can't have Quiet come up at all in the main mission storyline. This eventually comes to a head in the form of a gap between after killing Skull Face and before Sahelanthropus is abducted where the player KNOWS Quiet has the third English strain but absolutely nothing can be done about it because they have to separate her from the main plot. Then the mission where she leaves/dies comes up and she is written out of the story in a way that is incredibly unsatisfying just so that that plot point can conclude without rippling into the main missions. I have more but I'll leave it at that and say that my disappointment with the story is not some gut reaction just because I didn't type a 5000 word essay in the same post. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Sep 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 04:00
|
|
|
Speedball posted:While the open stealth segments were great gameplay probably the more emotionally impactful parts were the more scripted areas. The hour-long intro, the Devil's House, and "Quarantine Strut Has Become A Nightmare" missions. I kinda wish we had just a couple more of those. I actually think the Quarantine Strut mass execution sequence was a very well-handled bit of video game storytelling. It wasn't as effective as it was meant to be since Mother Base ended up so cut down that most people will barely visit it or care for it, but the story paired with the mechanics still framed it well enough for it to be effective when you are stuck in a situation where you need to pull the trigger on your own men that have actual names and faces that actually exist in some tangible sense. They even made them have different reactions to what you're doing that felt human enough that I actually felt pretty hosed up by the end. That scene also exemplified how everything that Venom does to make himself a demon (as far as we see) is forced upon him by complicated circumstance, in contrast to Big Boss who happily indulges in being a self-righteous shithead when he has every opportunity to stop or use his resources to be an actively good person. I've come to like the one-liner at the beginning as more than just a silly line, because the tone set makes it stand out as a very intentional "Big Boss is knowingly cold enough to casually crack a joke about burning someone to death" instead of a simple "Haha, that wacky Boss!". The Giant Bomb crew definitely had a point when they said they said it practically feels like we're meant to have a whole other game for Big Boss as a follow-up. I do believe the twist means something to the story, it's just so abstract because we don't get a sense for what Big Boss is doing during/just after The Phantom Pain besides vague hints that aren't concrete enough to really point at to properly compare him to the more heroic/necessary evil actions of Venom (given the situation and role thrust upon him). Yeah Bro posted:or complaints about how the ludic systems impeded the telling of the story. Just the story in isolation, thanks in advance) I agree with a bunch of your points but ludic systems are pretty important to storytelling in video games, especially when said video game is already very heavily gameplay-focused. Granted, a lot of criticism of ludic systems vs. written story misses the point entirely, but that's down to the critic, not the concept. Dangerous Person posted:My friend hated it and texted 'HE PLAYED US LIKE A drat FIDDLE" as soon as he got there. That's a sign of love tbh
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 04:02
|
|
|
zedprime posted:Chapter 2 being cutting room scraps is equally heartbreaking as it is awfully presented but being mad at the twist is silly for two reasons. The first is that the entire thematic point is that you are really Big Boss. More Big Boss than Naked Snake even. The second is that Naked Snake in the 80s doesn't fit the archetype for a MGS main character Snake: to be a Snake, you need to be a dupe. Naked Snake has ascended to the level of doing the controling, meaning we need another idiot to play as dupe for the actual movers and shakers, thus the invention of the Vth Snake clone, Venom. I thought Chapter 1 had some nice story beats- had Kojima decided to just put all his effort into making Chapter 1 good, most of the best bits of Chapter 2 could have dovetailed in with Chapter 1 well and given it some more sweet moments. As it was, the end of the real plot of the game felt rushed I thought when we took the ride with Skullface we'd get captured and then begin Act 3, but instead that was basically the end of the actual story content of the game. I feel like the New Game+ elements were off, too, instead of giving us these new game modes for all our missions, it's a strictly limited set and that sucks. Mother base was underused, too, but I don't think it was the management as much as the lack of use for missions- that space was really cool in mission 22 and I wish we could've used it some more. If the game had an epilogue, it would've been awesome if it was an open world infiltration of Mother Base as Solid Snake. This would retcon MG1, of course, but god drat would that be satisfying. The idea that someone was going to make a satisfying game that bridged the gap by telling everything that happened between Peace Walker and MG1 in a big story was a pipe dream, even if Kojima had another year or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 04:04
|
|
|
"There's totally room for another Naked Snake game to parallel MGSV is such crazy wishful thinking. Considering he handed off running PFs to Venom its probably safe to assume he spent the 80s and 90s doing boring rear end paperwork and schmoozing world military leaders. The game I want that we'll never see is Gray Fox's story since MGS4 retconned the Big Boss-Gray Fox-Naomi relationship into some strange big happy military family that would be cool to contrast with Big Boss eventually coming to accept Solid as a worthy descendent.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 04:18
|
|
|
zedprime posted:"There's totally room for another Naked Snake game to parallel MGSV is such crazy wishful thinking. Considering he handed off running PFs to Venom its probably safe to assume he spent the 80s and 90s doing boring rear end paperwork and schmoozing world military leaders. P sure the real Big Boss was busy escaping from
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 04:22
|
|
|
Moartoast posted:That's a sign of love tbh It was immediately followed with "I think this game just ruined Metal Gear for me"
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 04:23
|
|
|
Quoting you would take up too much screen real estate, CJacobs. - I kinda disagree with the fundamental point here, I don't think "lying" or the presence of an unreliable narrator diminish the efficacy of the twist, especially not when there is so much foreshadowing and thematic recontextualisation that happens as a result of the twist. You're approaching narrative twists as a puzzle to be solved, like a whodunit novel, whereas a twist serves more of a meaning altering function, to the point that the significance of chapter one hinges on the twist or otherwise comes across flaccid and a bit pointless - I appreciate the sentiment of this and I agree with it in the sense that the game as a work would be better off with better paced narrative/gameplay distribution, but it's still more of a ludic concern than a narrative one. - Ocelot and Miller (but Ocelot especially) do draw something of a characterization short straw when it comes to this game. I guess the problem is that they are both introduced as though they are major characters, but they mostly fall to the side thematically. I almost feel like Ocelot was included because it is an MGS game and Ocelot has been in every other one. Kaz has way more thematic relevance, but he is still more of a side character than anything else. - What would the functional narrative difference be if you got to use the battle gear? Like, I can't think of a way for it to be utilized in the story in a meaningful way. It justifies Huey's continued existence, which in turn gives us some of the best scenes in the game. - Quiet's non-involvement in much of the game never really bothered me; I didn't play through skipping her though, maybe that makes the story less coherent. But her absence in main scenes was never too noticeable and she had her own self-contained arc that synergised well with the rest of the narratives. Moartoast posted:I agree with a bunch of your points but ludic systems are pretty important to storytelling in video games, especially when said video game is already very heavily gameplay-focused. Granted, a lot of criticism of ludic systems vs. written story misses the point entirely, but that's down to the critic, not the concept. I agree that it is relevant, I just don't really care about it from a discussion standpoint. I find that the majority of discourse surrounding story in videogames is so dire that confusing the matter by adding ludic considerations to the conversation only serves to muddy it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 04:24
|
|
|
Yeah Bro posted:I agree that it is relevant, I just don't really care about it from a discussion standpoint. I find that the majority of discourse surrounding story in videogames is so dire that confusing the matter by adding ludic considerations to the conversation only serves to muddy it. Oh sure, I can especially see this with an overtly linear story like Metal Gear. There's a story to be told through mechanics, but it's not the one we're focusing on, I get that. The structure of the game does affect the pacing, but that's a technical detail that a thousand people have pointed out about this and every other open world game, and while it's a real bummer even one of the most well-structured open-world games (IMO) couldn't find a way to balance that pacing, it doesn't bring much to the discussion of what the story is actually saying. Dangerous Person posted:It was immediately followed with "I think this game just ruined Metal Gear for me" My point still stands, considering how many people (I think in this thread alone) once had that reaction to MGS2 and now think it has the most poignant themes of the whole series. Myself included, though I wasn't so into MGS or Snake as a character (or as creepily averse to OH NO FEMININITY IN MEN) that it affected me like it did others.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 04:32
|
|
|
Panzeh posted:The idea that someone was going to make a satisfying game that bridged the gap by telling everything that happened between Peace Walker and MG1 in a big story was a pipe dream, even if Kojima had another year or whatever. I also think there just isn't enough there. Knowing a story's end and playing the parts in the middle constrains you completely, but in games this is alright because most of the meat is gameplay and not narrative (see this game). I mean, the next game could have been building the nation of Zanzibar Land, but why? You know what is going to happen. (I am calling it now, MGS VI will be Zanzibar Land Mobile which will be an awful clash of clans clone). I mean, there's also something uniquely meta I could picture Kojima doing (fates being sealed because they're already written and all that) but besides that, I'm typically not interested in a story that has the end written for me. MGS 3 was ok because it had been what, twenty years since Big Boss had been introduced and nobody really knew him from obscure NES/MSX titles (before MGS on the Playstation anyway). So you had the prequel and tracing the history of who the patriots were and the foundation for the world Kojima was building. With Ground Zeroes, you have his fall (he lost everything) and with V you have him on course to going where he was in Metal Gear Solid on the NES. Sometimes stories just have to end
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 04:33
|
|
|
Dangerous Person posted:It was immediately followed with "I think this game just ruined Metal Gear for me" I've never been more into Metal Gear as such there remains balance in the universe
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 04:34
|
|
|
Now that I just beat the game, I can venture into this topic! Lot of posts. Holy moly. That final cutscene (after the ranking screen in mission 46) is epic as gently caress. For a minute there after replaying the hospital scene with the minor differences, I was worried we'd just hear Big Boss explaining things through an audio tape. Luckily we got that badass cutscene and got to see him talking and whatnot. And the bit about him and you both being Big Boss together, badass stuff. I had read the spoiler before getting my hands on the game on release day, and I thought it sounded pretty cool. And having seen how it played out, I officially think it's cool and well done, officially. For the record. My guess is I also would have liked it had I not known about it. Though if I hadn't known about it, I'm assuming I'd find the Ishmael thing and Ishmael disappearing from the narrative to be a bit suspicious. I'm glad I knew about it beforehand though. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Sep 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 06:03
|
|
|
I probably didn't miss this but did they ever explain why Quiet could never write or communicate in any other means besides 'poo poo, I've done it this long, may as well keep this poo poo up. BTW Boss, I can literally speak any other language on the planet. I just can't do the English one or I'll kill like a billion people. Too bad I can't give you a post-it or draw it in blood or shoot it on boxes like I did for your birthday. Oh well.' Because that's pretty loltastic if they never did. Even if they did, she could just talk through Code Talker and ask him 'Hey dude, I can't speak English and the parasites hosed up my brain so I can't read or write anymore. Please tell Boss he can talk to me using language X'. Its kind of sad that she has the biggest arc and her writing was still pretty empty.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 06:49
|
|
|
Dapper Dan posted:I probably didn't miss this but did they ever explain why Quiet could never write or communicate in any other means besides 'poo poo, I've done it this long, may as well keep this poo poo up. BTW Boss, I can literally speak any other language on the planet. I just can't do the English one or I'll kill like a billion people.' Because that's pretty loltastic if they never did. Even if they did, she could just talk through Code Talker and ask him 'Hey dude, I can't speak English and the parasites hosed up my brain so I can't read or write anymore. Please tell Boss he can talk to me using language X'. The explanation was that she wasn't sure if she wanted to kill Big Boss or not and didn't actually make up her mind (and thus blow her trump card) until she called for help. It's pretty forced but the answer is "she didn't want to."
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 06:50
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:The explanation was that she wasn't sure if she wanted to kill Big Boss or not and didn't actually make up her mind (and thus blow her trump card) until she called for help. It's pretty forced but the answer is "she didn't want to." But she already said she didn't want to kill Big Boss to Code Talker. She says to Code Talker that she'll never speak English, meaning she'll never kill him or the Diamond Dogs with the vocal chord parasite. Code Talker knew she was the one infected with the strain, and hence what Skullface meant.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 06:53
|
|
|
I'm starting to think that after she spoke english in her ending and left, the english strain decided to go apeshit on her and devour her whole entire body because she does not have a conventional means of breathing anymore.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 06:53
|
|
|
InfinityComplex posted:I'm starting to think that after she spoke english in her ending and left, the english strain decided to go apeshit on her and devour her whole entire body because she does not have a conventional means of breathing anymore. Yeah, the moment she started to speak English she was screwed and was going to become symptomatic. So she's basically wandering off to the desert to die before she can infect anyone else.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 06:56
|
|
|
There's also the thought of, wouldn't the Wolbachia treatment actually be counteractive to her survival since her whole entire body is made of parasites by that point?
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 06:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 06:20 |
|
|
Dapper Dan posted:I probably didn't miss this but did they ever explain why Quiet could never write or communicate in any other means besides 'poo poo, I've done it this long, may as well keep this poo poo up. BTW Boss, I can literally speak any other language on the planet. I just can't do the English one or I'll kill like a billion people. Too bad I can't give you a post-it or draw it in blood or shoot it on boxes like I did for your birthday. Oh well.' Because that's pretty loltastic if they never did. Even if they did, she could just talk through Code Talker and ask him 'Hey dude, I can't speak English and the parasites hosed up my brain so I can't read or write anymore. Please tell Boss he can talk to me using language X'. Someone mentioned this earlier on in the thread, but the moment she revealed she could speak any language and/or write, Miller probably would've dragged her into room 101 and had Ocelot torture the poo poo out of her about Cipher/XOF. Hence, not communicating at all with anybody was a way of ensuring that didn't even come up as an option.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 07:02
|
|