|
Dapper_Swindler posted:Jesus, I thought Racial blood "science" died when hitler ate a bullet. guess not.  You're cute. lovely things will always be pulled out as an excuse for assholes to be assholes, no matter how archaic or discredited the thing might be.
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2015 22:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 20:53 |
|
|
UFOTofuTacoCat posted:I heard you guys like this kind of stuff: Jezebel posted:Additionally, Our Voice issued a statement noting that it will not accept donations from Waking Life Espresso loving ouch. So scuzzy a charity won't even take your PR money.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2015 22:43
|
|
|
UFOTofuTacoCat posted:I heard you guys like this kind of stuff: I love how their main two responses are "well I wouldn't want to gently caress these protesting whores anyway!" and "if I got caught, I'd be alpha and further humiliate and alienate myself from the community, that'd show 'em".
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2015 23:12
|
|
|
Klaus88 posted:
probably. I shouldn't be surprised(history major) but usually people go the "racial realism" route at least now a days. I just haven't heard that kind of poo poo in while. then again we are talking about kane skullman or that other guy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 21, 2015 23:28
|
|
|
UFOTofuTacoCat posted:Congrats Dudes you're famous! You know, unlike most of the LW community and a lot of the Red Pill community, these people are actually, well, good looking. Usually, these people are plainly unattractive/really fat.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 00:19
|
|
|
A White Guy posted:You know, unlike most of the LW community and a lot of the Red Pill community, these people are actually, well, good looking. Usually, these people are plainly unattractive/really fat. They still retain that essential attribute of "by god that face is begging for a punch" though. Its the  aura these people emit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 01:36
|
|
|
A White Guy posted:You know, unlike most of the LW community and a lot of the Red Pill community, these people are actually, well, good looking. Usually, these people are plainly unattractive/really fat. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 02:08
|
|
|
I used to really hate that stupid red/blue pill analogy until I got curious and went digging for the extended Matrix canon. The movies were only supposed the be the prequel, with the whole story unfolding over years in various comics, animes, books, games, etc etc. Turns out the Machines created the red pill and Zion as a kind of a philosophy cesspool, so all of the most dangerous "gently caress You, Dad" would voluntarily leave society and go be miserable somewhere else. Every century or so the machines would kill them all off and start over again like emptying a cultural septic tank, because those people are what kept loving up all the Matrixes and killing everyone else no matter how good their world already was. When the Matrix franchise folded, only the MMO survived long enough to get to the "Zion are bad guys" plot reveal. Its wiki is still around, if you're bored enough you can dig through it and find the official answers to all the plot holes in the movies. So "taking the red pill" is a turd flushing its own toilet, and the only people doing it correctly are cults and sovereign citizens who flee civilization and isolate themselves in the wilderness where they can clutch guns, eat gruel, and talk about how the Revolution or Rapture or whatever is happening any day now. That way they can only ruin a few hundred lives, at worst. Anyone else using "red pill" to describe their own worldview is doing it wrong. Oh, when the MMO finally went out of business the devs were allowed to destroy the gameworld however they wanted, so right before they shut down the servers for good their last act was to make all the in-game players' avatars bend over backwards and disappear up their own asses. That was a very good eschaton.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 02:38
|
|
|
Lana Wachowski is trans. The red pill is estrogen.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 02:40
|
|
|
John Carpenter fans have to be really glad that The Matrix came along and stopped They Live from being associated with this dreck.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 02:41
|
|
|
The Vosgian Beast posted:John Carpenter fans have to be really glad that The Matrix came along and stopped They Live from being associated with this dreck.  As a shameless John Carpenter fan, I want to have your babies. Mind you "put on the glasses" or "glasses on" isn't quite as catchy as "red pill". They live is a much better film then the Matrix though and I will wrestle anyone in a back alley who says otherwise. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 02:53
|
|
|
Syd Midnight posted:I used to really hate that stupid red/blue pill analogy until I got curious and went digging for the extended Matrix canon. The movies were only supposed the be the prequel, with the whole story unfolding over years in various comics, animes, books, games, etc etc. Turns out the Machines created the red pill and Zion as a kind of a philosophy cesspool, so all of the most dangerous "gently caress You, Dad" would voluntarily leave society and go be miserable somewhere else. Every century or so the machines would kill them all off and start over again like emptying a cultural septic tank, because those people are what kept loving up all the Matrixes and killing everyone else no matter how good their world already was. When the Matrix franchise folded, only the MMO survived long enough to get to the "Zion are bad guys" plot reveal. Its wiki is still around, if you're bored enough you can dig through it and find the official answers to all the plot holes in the movies. Um I guess people don't remember it but that's explicitly what the third movie has the Architect say. And it's part of the first movie that the Matrix is only as lovely as the real world because rear end in a top hat humans wouldn't believe or want to live in a perfect one. And in the Animatrix it's explicitly the fault of the humans over and over again that the war happened in the first place. There are definitely trans metaphors in the Matrix too, but especially the idea of the agents where any person in society could turn on you if you reveal what your are to them, but the overarching theme is pretty clear: it's our own fault that the world is this lovely, not some external evil "machine" or "Cathedral" that controls everybody but the special wunderkind sociopaths. There's a reason all the Zion people dress like the "trenchcoat mafia", they're literally supposed to look like the Columbine killers. 
Political Whores has a new favorite as of 04:32 on Sep 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 04:29
|
|
|
Political Whores posted:There's a reason all the Zion people dress like the "trenchcoat mafia", they're literally supposed to look like the Columbine killers. That is pretty loving impressive considering that The Matrix came out literally a month before Columbine.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 04:44
|
|
|
Political Whores posted:Um I guess people don't remember it but that's explicitly what the third movie has the Architect say. And it's part of the first movie that the Matrix is only as lovely as the real world because rear end in a top hat humans wouldn't believe or want to live in a perfect one. And in the Animatrix it's explicitly the fault of the humans over and over again that the war happened in the first place. The movie came out like a month before Columbine, dude. They're supposed to be cool goth pariahs.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 04:44
|
|
|
Wow really? Prescient. I always thought it was the other way around. In any case, the red pill was never supposed to be good. I was 11 when the movie came out so I didn't see it till years later, I always thought the fact that the Zion people were supposed to be like violent sociopaths seemed obvious. E: I'm actually flabbergasted by this. Black trenchcoat clad people walk in with guns and murders tons of innocents they see as enemies. How could that not be a metaphor for a spree killer? How could Columbine come afterwards (rhetorically)? VVV Possible thought I thought the Trench-coat Mafia was a thing longer than just the month before the shooting. I guess Dark City had the trenchcoats and sun glasses way before so maybe it was that? Political Whores has a new favorite as of 05:18 on Sep 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 05:02
|
|
|
I think it's less "prescient" and more "the kids at Columbine probably saw The Matrix".
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 05:09
|
|
|
"Badass cool killers in leather trench coats" has been a thing since Hugo Boss got hired by fascists, at least.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 05:24
|
|
|
Political Whores posted:Wow really? Prescient. I always thought it was the other way around. I actually think you are supposed to root for Keanu and Carrie Ann Moss gunning down all those people because anyone complicit with the system is an enemy of the revolution and deserves death within the world of the narrative. Keanu doesn't believe in civilians. They can all become agents at any moment anyway.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 05:29
|
|
|
Jack Gladney posted:I actually think you are supposed to root for Keanu and Carrie Ann Moss gunning down all those people because anyone complicit with the system is an enemy of the revolution and deserves death within the world of the narrative. Keanu doesn't believe in civilians. They can all become agents at any moment anyway. I guess you're supposed to initially, which why the twist Syd Midnight described was supposed to be so shocking? The 3 films as a whole though make it pretty explicit that the violent spree killers are not in fact the good people in the conflict. I always thought it was pretty obvious because what sort of person thinks it's ok to kill everyone indiscriminately like that? They were terrorists. I don't get how people could not see that. Even the idea of everyone as an agent of the system is straight out of anarchist manifestos from when they were setting off bombs at the turn of the last century. E; I'm gonna shut up about this now, but basically Syd Midnight is correct and the movies alone basically says that anyone who thinks like the protagonists do are violent socially-maladjusted assholes. People who use the "Red Pill" metaphor unironically are beyond unself-aware, especially for people who bitch about the hold of pop culture and media on people. Political Whores has a new favorite as of 05:44 on Sep 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 05:33
|
|
|
Political Whores posted:I guess you're supposed to initially, which why the twist Syd Midnight described was supposed to be so shocking? The 3 films as a whole though make it pretty explicit that the violent spree killers are not in fact the good people in the conflict. I always thought it was pretty obvious because what sort of person thinks it's ok to kill everyone indiscriminately like that? They were terrorists. I don't get how people could not see that. Even the idea of everyone as an agent of the system is straight out of anarchist manifestos from when they were setting off bombs at the turn of the last century. I'm going to nerd out about the Matrix for a moment. The first Matrix movie, taken as a piece on its own (which you should probably do), clearly does want you to root for Neo. The Matrix is an avowedly Leftist movie series and the first movie is about fighting the System (late capitalism) represented as a fake 20th century society created by the machines. Issues of race and gender are made pretty clear (the villains are clearly represented by the Agents, white men; while the heroes are a multi-racial, multi-ethnic band). The climax of the movie is Neo embracing his nature as the chosen one and rendering himself unable to be penetrated be the Agents any longer. He then destroys the Agents and declares open war on the machines. The whole thing is clearly triumphant. Killing civilians isn't a problem, all civilians are complicit in the System. Killing enforcers of government authority is not a problem (killing cops is fine), because they are lesser agents of the system. That's kind of the point. The sequel movies blur it all a bit more though. It's revealed that the rebellion is (Zion) is in fact created by the machines. That all the freedom that Neo thought he had found was in fact a lie. This plays to an existential fear within Leftism about the nature of capitalism. How do we know that our rebellion won't just be hijacked or won't just drive up profit margins? The movies even blur the lines between heroes and villains. The humans attacked the machines first, quite clearly. On the other hand, the machines had no issue with enslaving humans. Yet, this blurring is unsatisfying. We don't want the machines to be correct. An outside context problem is introduced (Smith free and unbound, representing a nihilistic desire to destroy everything, which both the machines and Zion opposes) and both sides are forced to come to a compromise, establishing a new status quo. You can actually look at this as a Hegelian triad. The first movie presents the thesis: There exists the System, but you can free yourself from it, fight it, and win. The second movie (and the Animatrix) present the antithesis: Well no. The freedom you thought that you had is a lie. Also, the machines aren't the evil ones (although, if memory serves, the first movie says that no one knows who started the war). The final film presents the synthesis: You can't destroy the System, but you can change it and make it better. The System and You have some common ground and can work with each other against a common enemy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 05:52
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:Jesus, I thought Racial blood "science" died when hitler ate a bullet. guess not. "You can't kill an idea" applies to bad ideas too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 06:26
|
|
|
The first Matrix movie is essentially a ripoff of "The Invisibles", a Grant Morrison comic book. The design team was given copies of the comic, even. Any thematic analysis needs to keep that in mind.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 06:42
|
|
|
Political Whores posted:I guess you're supposed to initially, which why the twist Syd Midnight described was supposed to be so shocking? The 3 films as a whole though make it pretty explicit that the violent spree killers are not in fact the good people in the conflict. I always thought it was pretty obvious because what sort of person thinks it's ok to kill everyone indiscriminately like that? They were terrorists. I don't get how people could not see that. Also the one thing the 3 films make pretty explicit is that there is a God, and he hates us and wants us to suffer. You probably also watch Batman movies and assume people go home thinking, "man what a shocking take on American Psycho - with a masked, psychotic billionaire beating up the lower classes", hm? Reflections85 posted:I'm going to nerd out about the Matrix for a moment. The first Matrix movie, taken as a piece on its own (which you should probably do), clearly does want you to root for Neo. The Matrix is an avowedly Leftist movie series and the first movie is about fighting the System (late capitalism) represented as a fake 20th century society created by the machines. Issues of race and gender are made pretty clear (the villains are clearly represented by the Agents, white men; while the heroes are a multi-racial, multi-ethnic band). It's a revolution, but not leftist-socialist. If at all, it's mildly libertarian in the original sense of the world. Neo is a hacker even. He is the ultimate disruptive technology. If he hadn't woken up, he might have invented Uber. The Matrix and the neoreaction perfectly deserve each other * a rebel without a (good) cause.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 08:04
|
|
|
Welcome to the thread Narciss, enjoy your stay. Thank you for providing a picture to bolster A White Guy's point.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 11:17
|
|
|
I don't understand the point of the picture. I assume it's posted in an anti-feminist spirit? Is the point that the women aren't particularly attractive?
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 12:08
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:I don't understand the point of the picture. I assume it's posted in an anti-feminist spirit? Is the point that the women aren't particularly attractive? I'm not sure why you assume that, I was just posting a picture of the protest outside the guys' home.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 13:25
|
|
|
For what its worth, the place shown was a reconditioned/repurposed house which is now a business. Poor girl who didn't get the memo to be here yesterday for the protest was the sole person out front with a "Beta Dater," sign a few minutes ago...and it looks like she's gone now. Amazing how these guys have hosed themselves.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 14:20
|
|
|
Klaus88 posted:They still retain that essential attribute of "by god that face is begging for a punch" though. Its the English needs to steal the word Backpfeifengesicht from German. Jack Gladney posted:"Badass cool killers in leather trench coats" has been a thing since Hugo Boss got hired by fascists, at least.  And of course they were invented by the British Empire, who edge out even the Nazis to be the biggest mass murderers in history. Cingulate posted:You probably also watch Batman movies and assume people go home thinking, "man what a shocking take on American Psycho - with a masked, psychotic billionaire beating up the lower classes", hm? The original libertarians were anarcho-socialists though. Modern libertarians came around a hundred years later. Woolie Wool has a new favorite as of 14:37 on Sep 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 14:31
|
|
|
There's a LOT of other loophole-filling shocking plot twists, like how Neo and Trinity were themselves built by machines, they were genetically engineered to lead the humans because humans are retarded and will worship each other and do anything things if told to by a leader-type. Especially the religious fanatics who don't realize they're religious fanatics (like LW and NRx). Eventually Morpheus ends up breaking the big peace treaty to force the machines to return Neo's body... the machines never expected the humans to continue following someone after he's dead. Cause that makes no sense to them lol The Matrix MMO wiki is a fun few hours' read.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 14:56
|
|
|
Syd Midnight posted:There's a LOT of other loophole-filling shocking plot twists, like how Neo and Trinity were themselves built by machines, they were genetically engineered to lead the humans because humans are retarded and will worship each other and do anything things if told to by a leader-type. Especially the religious fanatics who don't realize they're religious fanatics (like LW and NRx). Eventually Morpheus ends up breaking the big peace treaty to force the machines to return Neo's body... the machines never expected the humans to continue following someone after he's dead. Cause that makes no sense to them lol
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 16:02
|
|
|
A White Guy posted:You know, unlike most of the LW community and a lot of the Red Pill community, these people are actually, well, good looking. Usually, these people are plainly unattractive/really fat. Thats why it "works", most of the "material" is corny as all gently caress but it doesen't matter because having casual sex isn't all that hard if you're relatively normal to attractive looking. Meanwhile they treat it like they're cracking the enigma code: "How to get a girl to send nudes of herself posted:
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 17:37
|
|
|
Today I realized the blog of Dilbert creator Scott Adams is on SSC's sidebar. This explains so much, and yet, so little.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 17:43
|
|
|
The Vosgian Beast posted:Today I realized the blog of Dilbert creator Scott Adams is on SSC's sidebar. Scott Adams is a big dumb libertarian who thinks women aren't as smart as men, he totally belongs on that sidebar.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 17:51
|
|
|
Pope Guilty posted:Scott Adams is a big dumb libertarian who thinks women aren't as smart as men, he totally belongs on that sidebar. Thus the "explains so much"
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 18:00
|
|
|
Syd Midnight posted:Eventually Morpheus ends up breaking the big peace treaty to force the machines to return Neo's body... the machines never expected the humans to continue following someone after he's dead. Cause that makes no sense to them lol I know the Wachowskis are knowledgeable about religious/philosophical history, I wonder how explicitly they wanted to make those connections. The Matrix is pretty fun but also extremely bad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 18:01
|
|
|
I think my other favorite bit of Roman reaction to early Christianity is that, because there were a ton of Messianic sects around and many of them preached violent rebellion (while what we have claims Jesus did not, he still disrupted the Temple during Passover and that's probably why he was arrested in a time of tensions, too) there's the time when Paul gets grabbed by the Romans and the commander is like 'Wait, are you absolutely sure you're not that other Messiah guy, the one with the armed rebellion operating out of Egypt? Seriously? You're just...huh. Okay, we can let you go, then?' At which point Paul claims his right as roman citizen to be sent to Rome for trial, cleverly expecting a free trip to Rome so he can missionary. Unfortunately, when he arrives, it's at a time of one of the sporadic persecutions of this weird mystery cult and so he gets executed.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 18:05
|
|
|
I always thought the Matrix was supposed to be extremely simple Gnosticism. Evil God, humanity trapped in a false reality, archons trying to stop humans from reaching divinity and freedom, Gnostic Messiah to lead humanity to gnosis and reality.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 18:19
|
|
|
Well but here's the thing. "Gnosticism" is a pretty wide umbrella. In The Matrix, the Matrix itself is a non-physical and thus unreal world. According to Neoplatonic thought, it was the physical world that was lower, less-real, and corrupt. While the Real World of the Matrix was obviously not a nice place to be compared to the Matrix, we are to infer that the Real is still superior because of the ontological status of physicality compared to simulation. But this is the opposite of the belief of most Gnostic schools of thought. In most branches of Gnostic Christianity, the Christ is a being of pure spirit, who only appears to assume physical form (aka the "Docetic" christology). To suggest that the Christ was literally some guy would not be Gnostic at all; in fact, it would be the height of non-gnostic catholic orthodoxy. Gnostics also typically believed that Jesus' performance of humanity included pretty much pantomiming his human frailty and mortality. In reality, they would have it, the Christ didn't really die, he only appeared to die as an object lesson. This was a major point of contention between the gnostic and catholic branches of Christianity, and what led in part to the Council of Nicea and the Nicene Creed. Neo, on the other hand, is an emissary of the physical, tangible world into the insubstantial simulation created by the Demiurge. Neo is kind of the opposite of Jesus, and particularly the opposite of the Gnostic Christ. Neo is a physical human being who is mortal and limited in his powers in the Real World. Instead of JC incarnating into the physical world (and more limited abilities), Neo disincarnates into the Matrix, in which he has godlike powers. Gnostic soteriology is based on an assurance of spiritual liberation for those who receive the gnosis, in spite of the fact that the physical world is crude and corrupt. But in The Matrix, Reality means humans are plugged in to the robotic battery farm. They will be unable to achieve meaningful liberation by gnostic principles. Even if a human in the Matrix becomes aware of his true nature, he can't go anywhere with that knowledge without a physically liberated human in the Real world to unplug him from the machine. Liberation in The Matrix is radically physical; gnosis is useful for achieving power in the Matrix (like knowing kung fu or dodging bullets or beating up Hugo Weaving), but it's not a route to a better, realer existence, the way it would be in Gnosticism.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 18:54
|
|
|
neonnoodle posted:Well but here's the thing. "Gnosticism" is a pretty wide umbrella. [...] I know I'm repeating myself but you ought to read "The Invisibles" if you haven't already. It's a mixed bag (it's very dated, Morrison went through numerous psychological episodes while writing it, and the quality of the artists varies a lot) but if you're interested in gnosticism and related stuff you'll probably find it interesting as a popular culture artifact. It also explains a lot about why the Matrix movies are so incoherent as a set: the comic was still ongoing when they made the first film and the Wachowskis had to make up their own ending instead. And Morrison made a little dig at the first movie in the last issue, which came out in 2000. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 19:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 20:53 |
|
|
neonnoodle posted:
 These two states are not inherently contradictory. See also, Warhammer.
|
|
#
?
Sep 22, 2015 19:50
|
|