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I think Rodyle means more how MGS4 was supposed to be the actual end and then they were like LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE
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Sep 23, 2015 18:31
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Baal posted:I'm not telling you the story is in the tapes to pacify you, I'm just giving my opinion. Sorry if it came off that way to you. I think the tapes are more of a replacement for the codec calls instead of the actual story. I kind of want to see the game where the 10 minute tapes where Code Talker explains how parasites mate in excruciating detail are actual cutscenes (insert MGS4 joke here).
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Sep 23, 2015 18:32
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TheRealestMatt posted:Then why did the trailers say it was? Come on, Matt. Kojima lies in his trailers all the time. The man literally edited footage of Snake being in the Big Shell to trick the masses.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:32
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TheRealestMatt posted:Why did this need to be open world again? Because it's popular? Cuz clearly Koji Pro were not great at making a compelling world, cuz there's actually nothing really to do in it, and I honestly struggle to see what being an open world game has afforded Metal Gear. I guess it saved time in a way, because it meant no one had to design interesting locations like Shadow Mosses or Grozny Grad that are multi-layered and brimming with secrets, personality, and unique aspects to them. Like as much as people poo poo on PW (Which is actually super good) it had all the usual Metal gear story poo poo going on in the normal plot and used the tapes to be longer, more in depth Codec calls. They could flesh out the characters (Like big boss believing in santa) or just have characters talk about life on mother base and it made MSF feel more...understandable? Like you could tell Kaz and BB cared for the guys and tried to make their lives better in the small ways they could (Cecile's drunk tape about the lovely wine MONSIEUR MILLAAAAAAIR bought being my favorite example of this), but minus the super secret double cross plot that's the equivilent of Ocelot's call to the president at the end the narrative had nothing to do with the tapes. PLus PW had a much better sense of humor about itself and included a 4 player operated man-slingshot and officially licensed Mt. Dew and Doritos to heal Big Boss. It's actually a super good game.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:33
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TheRealestMatt posted:Then why did the trailers say it was? Well for one thing you shouldn't trust Metal Gear trailers, and for another there's stuff you don't know about because you have not finished the game.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:33
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I just don't get Liam most of the time. It's weird, because I totally get where he's coming from: I also have that insane personality quirk where I eat the devil's avocado on nearly every subject. The difference is I do this so people can better defend their opinion by being presented with opposition, Liam just does it to be insane. It's super weird. I could understand if in the end he just went "Yeah, no, I agree. You have some really good points" but goddamn, the dude just doesn't know when to shut the hell up and let it go. I'll never forget him getting insanely mad at Pat for saying Konami is evil or something along the lines of "You can't anthropomorphize a company, you fucker!" despite Liam does this just as much as everyone else. I still remember the entire group having to talk him down from his pissy rant for a good 5 minutes, explaining that people say things in metaphors or some poo poo. I know he was almost literally raised in a barn, but come on. It's just baffling at times the hills he tries to die on. It's honestly why I can't watch any extended LPs with him in it for the most part. Glad Matt and Pat have been doing their thing in a different LP, or I'd really have no point to come to the channel right now outside of Fisticuffs. ninja edit: Wow, poo poo, we got off the Liam topic real fast. Serves me right for being on mobile and forgetting to hit "Post".
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Sep 23, 2015 18:33
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Andrast posted:I think the tapes are more of a replacement for the codec calls instead of the actual story. The tapes are definitely meant to replace the codec calls, but there's also a lot of story stuff there. I really wish they hadn't gotten rid of the codec, but Kojima really wanted the game to be more streamlined in how it delivered its story, but idk
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Sep 23, 2015 18:35
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MGSV's story made nearly cry near the end of it, so I'm willing to cut it more slack on its story than I probably should.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:37
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Baal posted:I think Rodyle means more how MGS4 was supposed to be the actual end and then they were like LET'S MAKE ANOTHER ONE
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Sep 23, 2015 18:37
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Peace Walker is absurd to say as just side-game considering how canon and important it is, with direct ties to MGS V. It's basically the Chain of Memories of MGS in how absurd it lays out the actual numbered game.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:41
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pulp rag posted:I just don't get Liam most of the time. It's weird, because I totally get where he's coming from: I also have that insane personality quirk where I eat the devil's avocado on nearly every subject. The difference is I do this so people can better defend their opinion by being presented with opposition, Liam just does it to be insane. It's super weird. I could understand if in the end he just went "Yeah, no, I agree. You have some really good points" but goddamn, the dude just doesn't know when to shut the hell up and let it go. The weird devil's advocate Liam doesn't really come up in the LPs that often, it's mostly a podcast thing. In LPs he's fine. fake edit: Except with Woolie. The Woolie + Liam combo seems to have bad LP chemistry for some reason. Andrast fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Sep 23, 2015 |
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Sep 23, 2015 18:42
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See that's the thing. If MGS4 was suppose to the the ultimate send off at the time... Then MGSV better have SOMETHING to say of value, and really reveal something pretty awesome to justify it's existence. Because if it doesn't. It shouldn't really exist. EDIT: Yeah, Liam only gets like that during the podcast. In fact, everyone's worst sides come out in the podcast. It's why the podcast is my least favorite thing that we do.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:42
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I've recently restarted my chronlogical playthrough. If it helps the pain, I can reassure everyone: Snake Eater is still the greatest game ever made.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:43
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You need to keep playing then. I won't say you'll like what is has, but it definitely has some big twist that shakes up the series.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:43
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MGS5 is the only metal gear game that comes close to being as good as Rising. Though I understand some people might not like Rising and 5, they are not what Metal Gear "used" to be.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:44
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If you don't like Rising then poo on you, because that's my favorite Metal Gear
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Sep 23, 2015 18:45
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Rodyle posted:Well also this. For as utterly awful in every respect as MGS4 was, it's still the end of the main Metal Gear Solid story. Revengeance is literally a different series, PW is a side game and I can't talk about V. PW, before V's obvious and hilarious running back of half the canon of the franchise, was honestly a really great send off for BB as a character. By the end he's just fed up with all this Cipher poo poo and the world and by the true ending has already transitioned into insane cult-military leader. The True ending finishes on him giving a speech that just gets kind of crazier as it goes on until he's basically screaming "We'll become the boogeyman of the world and show them what we really can do!". He had transitioned into being the bad guy there. It was a pretty cool way to round that story out and you can see why Kojima originally wanted it to be called Metal Gear Solid 5: Peace Walker.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:46
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Tae posted:Peace Walker is absurd to say as just side-game considering how canon and important it is, with direct ties to MGS V. It's basically the Chain of Memories of MGS in how absurd it lays out the actual numbered game. TheRealestMatt posted:See that's the thing. If MGS4 was suppose to the the ultimate send off at the time... As you get deeper in it will become obvious how totally not the final game V actually is. And it does say something important.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:47
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Yeah, no, trust me, even the tapes have little story in them. Some funny bits and geopolitical stuff like always, sure, but MGSV, as a whole, seems to be Kojima's reaction to "yo, have less cutscenes in your games and stuff!" MGSV was meant to be the missing link in the series that tied PeaceWalker and the MGX games together. Like, how did BB become comatose, how did he set up Outer Heaven, how did he become this evil dude to the public, and what did all these characters (Ocelot, Miller, etc.) do before the MGX games? It's THE prequel to the first games of the series, but it feels more like a retcon of a retcon of a retcon most of the time, having played it. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed some of it, like Kid Mantis, but the rest is pretty blatantly just pasted in because Kojima doesn't really have anything else to say about warfare that he hasn't already. Child soldiers, nukes as deterrents, war-driven technological breakthroughs, perfect-soldier mass manufacturing, etc. has all been done by him, and it's all repeated in this game, at once. All the weak points that TPP are the story and lack of characterization. Even open world games can have great bossfights and change things up from time-to-time, but without good pacing, strong story, and characters you don't really give a poo poo about for one reason or another, no one is going to really remember anything other than how dull the setpieces were. I can remember one interesting "boss fight," but that was it. The rest has been done over and over again across the series, but each game tried it's own spin on it. But yeah, the controls and combat are the best in the series. Really, the only reason I'm still playing it is so I can unlock Rechargeable Stealth Camo and gently caress around in outposts with it. Even that feels like a grind, though.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:47
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Yeah, Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain basically had to roll back everything Peace Walker had made. Plus Militaires Sans Frontières was way cooler than Diamond Dogs 
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Sep 23, 2015 18:47
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TheRealestMatt posted:EDIT: Yeah, Liam only gets like that during the podcast. In fact, everyone's worst sides come out in the podcast. It's why the podcast is my least favorite thing that we do. The podcast kinda goes both ways. It feels like it allows for some really hilarious tangents that you don't really get on LPs too.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:48
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mgs5 is much more of a side story than peace walker. Kojima wanted to call that game mgs5!
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Sep 23, 2015 18:49
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I liked what story was in 5, the ending and the tapes you get from beating the game are especially great.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:49
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:PW, before V's obvious and hilarious running back of half the canon of the franchise, was honestly a really great send off for BB as a character. By the end he's just fed up with all this Cipher poo poo and the world and by the true ending has already transitioned into insane cult-military leader. The True ending finishes on him giving a speech that just gets kind of crazier as it goes on until he's basically screaming "We'll become the boogeyman of the world and show them what we really can do!". He had transitioned into being the bad guy there. It was a pretty cool way to round that story out and you can see why Kojima originally wanted it to be called Metal Gear Solid 5: Peace Walker. But that was never needed, at least not until V. In fact I would argue that the overall BB arc post-3 was better left to the imagination.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:50
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Hijo Del Helmsley posted:Yeah, Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain basically had to roll back everything Peace Walker had made. I can see why people would want to join MSF. Diamond Dogs seems like a creepy suicide cult. Down to thanking BB for shooting you in the arm then beating you the gently caress up. Also, PP doesn't really roll back much of what PW does just really poorly expands upon the idea that 'Big Boss is the bad guy now!' that PW's finale set up. Rodyle posted:But that was never needed, at least not until V. In fact I would argue that the overall BB arc post-3 was better left to the imagination. No story is ever needed. You don't have to tell anything ever. That doesn't mean you can't make it a fun or interesting story, which is something PW does and still manages to fit the tone of the rest of the franchise where as V just fucks up both of those thing. Saying "But it wasn't necessary to tell this story!" is basically saying "Why write/make/do anything?" And given its original title and how Kojima talked about it as being important who are we to say it wasn't necessary? The way everything is written each Metal Gear could have been the end of the series and been fine. Each new one calls back to the past but are about their own unique events. Except 4 but that's for obvious reasons. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Sep 23, 2015 |
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Sep 23, 2015 18:50
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Yeah, Big Boss as a character never needed to be explained. That's the thing about Legends and titles and whatnot, you don't ever need to actually explain those things and more often that not it's better if you don't.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:51
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I can see why people would want to join MSF. Diamond Dogs seems like a creepy suicide cult. Down to thanking BB for shooting you in the arm then beating you the gently caress up. Yeah, that's what I was meaning. MSF was like an evil version of The Boss' Will. It was a great corruption of her intention. Diamond Dogs is just complete evil and obviously not what she wanted to the point where Big Boss must have just decided to not even pretend it was for her anymore. I just didn't like how MSF was basically used as a plot device to drive Miller's motivations and nothing else. People go straight back to not even knowing who Big Boss is. It's been nine years, sure, but MSF were a literal nuclear superpower by the end of PW. Plus it does a really bad job of explaining how Miller does his heel-face turn after it. (Also, Rising is totally canon because even Kojima said it could be. And who would volunteer to live in a world where that madness ISN'T canon?)
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Sep 23, 2015 18:53
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Oxyclean posted:The podcast kinda goes both ways. It feels like it allows for some really hilarious tangents that you don't really get on LPs too. You might get one of those conversations (that lasts roughly 5 mins long) out of 5 podcasts, which is then 15 hours talking about street fighter technical jargon, japanese sales numbers and destiny.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:53
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I mean fwiw I think the explanation TPP offers for BB is cool but in terms of where this series in general should have stopped, it should have been 4. Just... a better version of 4. Then give way to the MGR series as planned and let Kojima do something else while Platinum does their thing. E: for as dumb as TPP's plot can be yeah no its way better than PW's dumb boss AI thing. The only thing PW has over V plotwise is that Coldman and Zardonov are more better than Skullface. Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Sep 23, 2015 |
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Sep 23, 2015 18:54
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Honestly, it would be better fitting to the story if you went completely lethal throughout all of MGSV. Boss is no longer the "Gotta save the lives of people" person like he was at the beginning of PW, he's at the point of "gently caress you, gently caress this, gently caress everyone". I think I might just run through all the story missions in V totally lethal, blowing poo poo up and shooting the gently caress outta everyone. I went total non-lethal for like 90% of the game. After the final mission, which I was stuck on for like 5 hours, I was really sick of this loving game and trying to go quiet and non-lethal.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:55
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I liked what story was in 5, the ending and the tapes you get from beating the game are especially great. Those tapes that unlock at the end are much more interesting than anything in the game. I wish the game was about that stuff instead.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:57
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TheRealestMatt posted:IT: Yeah, Liam only gets like that during the podcast. In fact, everyone's worst sides come out in the podcast. It's why the podcast is my least favorite thing that we do. That's sad to hear. The podcast is my favorite thing to listen to, specifically the news segment because you guys are the only ones that seem to know what video games are.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:57
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pulp rag posted:Honestly, it would be better fitting to the story if you went completely lethal throughout all of MGSV. Boss is no longer the "Gotta save the lives of people" person like he was at the beginning of PW, he's at the point of "gently caress you, gently caress this, gently caress everyone". Not to get into spoilers or anything, but I don't see how someone could ever get stuck on the final mission for hours. Assuming you mean final story mission, but the actual last mission also wouldn't make sense.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:57
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pulp rag posted:Honestly, it would be better fitting to the story if you went completely lethal throughout all of MGSV. Boss is no longer the "Gotta save the lives of people" person like he was at the beginning of PW, he's at the point of "gently caress you, gently caress this, gently caress everyone". But what makes that worse is due to the Heroism system, it actively punishes you for NOT going stealth and non-lethal. I'd like to just go "gently caress EVERYONE, I'M BIG DICK BOSS AND YOU ARE NOT, WHICH IS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH" but then you end up looking goofy and your MB troops suck.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:57
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TheRealestMatt posted:You might get one of those conversations (that lasts roughly 5 mins long) out of 5 podcasts, which is then 15 hours talking about street fighter technical jargon, japanese sales numbers and destiny. You really don't need to be that harsh about the podcast. It's consistently solid listening and if there is too much talk about street fight, destiny or whatever I can easily just skip the parts I don't care about.
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Sep 23, 2015 19:00
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Tae posted:That's sad to hear. The podcast is my favorite thing to listen to, specifically the news segment because you guys are the only ones that seem to know what video games are. Well, there's a variety of reasons why I dislike doing the podcast. Lots of arguments, tense moments, scheduling conflicts and stuff you wouldn't be privy to and would never affect you. I'm talking off-camera things. So I don't think you'd really understand. I liked it at first, but it has grown increasingly tiresome to sit there for 3-4 hours, and just ramble on. Especially me who gets cut off as soon as I start speaking. So that's why I shut up for long periods of time. I find making LPs and videos 100x times more creative and fun. TheRealestMatt fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Sep 23, 2015 |
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Sep 23, 2015 19:01
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TheRealestMatt posted:Notice I never said anything about how bad Mute Hero man controls or anything. Hmm, what other game was it that had all the interesting story bits in a bunch of text instead of the walky-around parts? I think it was...Final Fantasy 13?
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Sep 23, 2015 19:02
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I'm glad we got a Gate update from Woolie and Liam though, it's been about two weeks since the last
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Sep 23, 2015 19:05
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God drat it Beef I was holding my tongue
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Sep 23, 2015 19:07
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the difference being that mgs v is an amazing game to actually play, while ffxiii was very much not. i kind of envy people who played mgs 3/4, because i beat 2 and haven't played mgs since then, and i can't see all the stuff that got destroyed by the chaos with kojima and the move to open world. all i see is an incredibly quirky open world game with a heavy stealth element. in another way i'm not envious because those games exist and i can go back and play them, having enjoyed this entry. granted, i'm not very far into it, but i've sung the praises of this game so far because it does do a lot of things that are interesting and fun. i might get sick of it at some point. perhaps the problem is the game came face to face with the company that sold the world
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Sep 23, 2015 19:08
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