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I still had fun with WAR. Would still be playing it if it had gone F2P, if only for the excellent battleground PVP up to level 30 or so.
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Sep 23, 2015 06:28
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Verranicus posted:I still had fun with WAR. Would still be playing it if it had gone F2P, if only for the excellent battleground PVP up to level 30 or so. That game was so good pre-level 30, except for the fact that the mirrored classes weren't truly mirrored and Bright Wizards were completely bonkers.
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Sep 23, 2015 07:52
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Shadowlyger posted:chance I imagine
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Sep 23, 2015 07:55
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WAR was a pretty fun little game that was horribly mismanaged in the extreme.
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Sep 23, 2015 17:10
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I played WAR in the beta and I remember being a warrior priest, and we were on that map that had the lighthouse and the ruins. Two dwarves had followed me and we had snuck behind the middle point and were about to climb the wall and they were being all sissified like 'man there's too many of them.' And I had read some of the Warhammer Fantasy books and I busted out some quote about Sigmar that was pretty good and they actually went 'gently caress YEAH RAAARGH' and we jumped the wall and tore apart like half their team that had hung back and weren't paying attention to the warrior priest, grudge bearer, and rune priest that were slaughtering their wizards. That was one of my favorite moments in WAR and I just loving loved being a Warrior-Priest with SIGMAR stamped on my head like some religious nutwad (which I guess the character totally was.) e: oh sweet I still have an old, horrible screenshot of my dude  I completely forgot they had an emote where you pull out a warrior priest puppet. John Dyne fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Sep 23, 2015 |
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Sep 23, 2015 17:14
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Warrior Priests were kicking rad and possibly the most fun I've ever had in a healer role. e: lol that pic
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Sep 23, 2015 17:27
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It was kinda crazy how much more fun the instanced PVP was in WAR compared to WoW, especially considering how crappy other parts of the game were. The first and second tiers had some really cool maps.
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Sep 23, 2015 17:56
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Great character design and voice actor work. Running in a pack or orcs and goblins was fun, but my warrior priest was the best. Yes, let me stand on the flag and let the entire enemy team beat on me while I hold them off! 
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Sep 23, 2015 18:04
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Verranicus posted:It was kinda crazy how much more fun the instanced PVP was in WAR compared to WoW, especially considering how crappy other parts of the game were. The first and second tiers had some really cool maps. And then it got awful. 40-50 bracket was abysmal, and the experience spike every level was insane. I was leveling purely through pvp, and when I saw some of the maps in the later brackets and how long it would take to level through them, I uninstalled that poo poo so fast.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:08
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Dick Trauma posted:Great character design and voice actor work. Running in a pack or orcs and goblins was fun, but my warrior priest was the best. Yes, let me stand on the flag and let the entire enemy team beat on me while I hold them off! Yeah, whoever was in charge off character design and related stuff really poured some soul into the game. West Ham Sandwich posted:And then it got awful. 40-50 bracket was abysmal, and the experience spike every level was insane. I was leveling purely through pvp, and when I saw some of the maps in the later brackets and how long it would take to level through them, I uninstalled that poo poo so fast. I really think WAR (and probably any PvP focused MMO) shouldn't have used a level based system. Level grinding should be for PvE experiences. In a PvP game levels take too much focus off the fight and act as unwelcome population separators. Everyone should be in the same pool, EVE and Planetside got it right. Unfortunately most developers either don't have the balls or the confidence in themselves to go without a level based progression system.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:17
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Chomp8645 posted:Yeah, whoever was in charge off character design and related stuff really poured some soul into the game. Guild Wars 2 had a mode like that didn't have the participation leveled you'd expect. I liked it though was great to pick a class and try out its max level skills within 5 minutes.
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Sep 23, 2015 19:58
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socialsecurity posted:Guild Wars 2 had a mode like that didn't have the participation leveled you'd expect. I liked it though was great to pick a class and try out its max level skills within 5 minutes. Yeah but that's a tacked on solution. That's not making non-leveled system, it's not using the leveled system you made. A proper non-leveled system is something that is built from the ground up, not something flicked off with a switch when you enter PvP. I wouldn't participate in it either.
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Sep 23, 2015 21:19
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In a pvp game I feel they could easily bake progression more into areas you control, make travel a pain so getting to areas, and seeing the new things is the 'progression' and not just what skills you get or how hard you hit. I don't know if it would work since I feel spergy for saying restricting travel, but I'd say it'd be a startish?
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Sep 23, 2015 21:45
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Chomp8645 posted:I really think WAR (and probably any PvP focused MMO) shouldn't have used a level based system. Level grinding should be for PvE experiences. In a PvP game levels take too much focus off the fight and act as unwelcome population separators. Everyone should be in the same pool, EVE and Planetside got it right. Eve does have a level based system though, where it takes a very long time to catch up to older players in effectiveness even for easier roles. I do agree that they got it largely right, and there are plenty of avenues for "lower level" characters to be useful in pvp, but that's largely by virtue of the combat being asymmetric by design. It wouldn't work if fights in eve were battlegrounds with even numbers (such as the various tournaments where contenders are generally maxed in all relevant skills for their role). I'm not sure what a pvp mmo without progression would look like, since its so fundamental to the genre. How would it be different from non-MMO pvp games like TF2 or MOBAs?
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Sep 23, 2015 23:38
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I loved the trophies in WAR. But then the tug of war of balancing started, where they caved to one side whining x class was OP, but in tweaking it made a different class OP, and back and forth and back and forth until the game died. I don't think they ever really considered how a change would stack when they implemented it, because every patch either destroyed your class or made it great again. And then of course some classes went untouched for ages, the lucky bastards.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:55
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WAR's biggest sin was that they did gently caress all to ensure there was something resembling a balance of players on both sides. In a game that hinged on actually having opponents to fight, it was just server after server full of 80/20 destro/order.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:57
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hit button posted:Eve does have a level based system though, where it takes a very long time to catch up to older players in effectiveness even for easier roles. I do agree that they got it largely right, and there are plenty of avenues for "lower level" characters to be useful in pvp, but that's largely by virtue of the combat being asymmetric by design. It wouldn't work if fights in eve were battlegrounds with even numbers (such as the various tournaments where contenders are generally maxed in all relevant skills for their role). I mean it's hard to say just because you can probably count the number of games that have tried a non-leveld system on one hand so field testing is scarce. But basically I see a good non-leveled PvP progression system as relying on a combination of sidegrades like Planetside and "prestige goals". 1. Planetside has the right idea with it's gear system. You start with perfectly serviceable gear and can unlock a wide, wide variety of equipment and vehicles that are sidegrades in that they fill alternate roles instead of being straight improvements. That said you do need to develop a number of straight-up upgrades to be competitive and that part I dislike, but the concept is sound. 2. I think a big untapped source of non-leveled progression are what I'm calling "prestige goals" for lack of a better term (if someone knows one, tell me). These are unlocks and accomplishments that are fundamentally disconnected from in game power but nonetheless hold appeal and make people want to earn them. Give people opportunities to collect things or unlock cosmetics, housing stuff, or whatever else within a PvP context. A good example is dyes in ESO. The game doesn't make you pay for any dyes (I think), rather they can all be unlocked through gameplay, like "regicide red" which you get if you're involved in the kill of an active emperor. I think that expanding on this and giving people a wide variety of things to collect, materials to hunt for, and goals to accomplish could help supplant levels as a goal to work towards. It's a concept that needs to worked on and I don't have all the answers, but I'd like to see more developers at least try to come up with an alternative to boring old character levels which inevitably make anyone not-max-level feel worthless.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:44
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Sep 24, 2015 01:07
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Ready for launch 
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Sep 24, 2015 01:52
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Nobody needs Wildstar anymore. The Secret World just introduced a hover board.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:40
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hit button posted:Eve does have a level based system though, where it takes a very long time to catch up to older players in effectiveness even for easier roles. I do agree that they got it largely right, and there are plenty of avenues for "lower level" characters to be useful in pvp, but that's largely by virtue of the combat being asymmetric by design. It wouldn't work if fights in eve were battlegrounds with even numbers (such as the various tournaments where contenders are generally maxed in all relevant skills for their role). You can buy characters with more power if you choose. So it's really not a hindrance currently. Maybe back when the game was new.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:45
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Chomp8645 posted:Yeah but that's a tacked on solution. That's not making non-leveled system, it's not using the leveled system you made. A proper non-leveled system is something that is built from the ground up, not something flicked off with a switch when you enter PvP. I wouldn't participate in it either. why
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Sep 24, 2015 07:11
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Morglon posted:Nobody needs Wildstar anymore. The Secret World just introduced a hover board. isn't TSW about to shut down? i heard the publisher went bankrupt
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Sep 24, 2015 07:13
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RottenK posted:why autism
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Sep 24, 2015 07:34
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RottenK posted:isn't TSW about to shut down? i heard the publisher went bankrupt FunCom's perpetually moribund. There's no telling when it'll actually die.
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Sep 24, 2015 09:28
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RottenK posted:isn't TSW about to shut down? i heard the publisher went bankrupt Meh, they keep pumping out new content and announced a spinoff so I remain hopeful.
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Sep 24, 2015 10:07
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If we're talking about "games we wish had been better" put TSW up on that list as well. Loved the world and lore, loved a bunch of the quests that actually challenged you to pay attention if you wanted to do them legit, adored the dungeons, and really liked that they tried for a non-traditional progression system. But god, the combat felt so anemic. Also there's a WAR private server? :O
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Sep 24, 2015 10:52
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Chomp8645 posted:Yeah but that's a tacked on solution. That's not making non-leveled system, it's not using the leveled system you made. A proper non-leveled system is something that is built from the ground up, not something flicked off with a switch when you enter PvP. I wouldn't participate in it either. So you'd prefer your PVP to be gear, or some progression metric based thing vs. everyone being on an equal playing field? Interesting  This is one of the things that GW2 got VERY right. There's 0 bullshit grind to get into PVP. You make a character and can get right into PVP. The thing they got very wrong is not having a few different types of game modes. I'm not really sure what's holding them back.
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Sep 24, 2015 13:03
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Stanley Pain posted:So you'd prefer your PVP to be gear, or some progression metric based thing vs. everyone being on an equal playing field? Interesting Does that sell keys? Gems? Well sorry 
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Sep 24, 2015 14:11
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Iron Tusk posted:In a game that hinged on actually having opponents to fight, it was just server after server full of 80/20 destro/order. Fun fact; they had a booth at Gen Con before the game was released. I asked the gameplay Dev that was there what their plans was to prevent one side from being stacked since there was a good chance Destro, being the "OMG, so cool" faction, would probably be stacked. Seemed relevant since world pvp can really suck if one side is stacked. Before he could answer, the Art/Design Devs jumped in and said "Yeah, the good guys are totally screwed!". The gameplay Dev really tried to play damage control since he could tell the look on my face wasn't a good one since I was planning on playing order. Really soured the game for me.
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Sep 24, 2015 14:21
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Pierson posted:Also there's a WAR private server? :O Apparently, but I tried to log into it yesterday and it wouldn't connect and the suggestions on their forums are to install and use their provided VPN software and keep connecting through different hosts until it works (and also it won't work next time so you'll have to go through all that nonsense again); so something is seriously brain dead about their setup.
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Sep 24, 2015 15:50
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Totbot posted:The gameplay Dev really tried to play damage control since he could tell the look on my face wasn't a good one since I was planning on playing order. Really soured the game for me. When Mythic created Dark Age of Camelot they decried any two faction systems saying it was terrible and impossible to balance. Then they made WAR and suddenly had to sell two faction systems. It was a really weird about-turn. I guess it was EA/GW at fault but it was a shame. It would have worked so much better with three factions.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:05
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Taear posted:When Mythic created Dark Age of Camelot they decried any two faction systems saying it was terrible and impossible to balance. Order, Chaos, and ORCS.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:42
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They posted some before and after SS's today of their new lighting pass. (They do legitimately look better) but they didn't bother to actually shoot the same scene for the before/after.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:47
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biznatchio posted:Apparently, but I tried to log into it yesterday and it wouldn't connect and the suggestions on their forums are to install and use their provided VPN software and keep connecting through different hosts until it works (and also it won't work next time so you'll have to go through all that nonsense again); so something is seriously brain dead about their setup. I've been able to log in to it just using their own launcher, though you have to change the settings of the files in your WAR folder from read only, for some reason. Things seem mostly okay, though the collision engine is buggy and guys can jump around in positioning. Also, while Order seems to do okay on the zerg part of the map, the battlegrounds I've done have been hilariously Destruction dominated. Queues on the two sides seem to match that, Order is fast and Destro is like 5 times longer. (For whatever reason people love the hell out of Destro melee classes while there's maybe one Order melee in a bg) John Dyne posted:Order, Chaos, and ORCS. Its a mistake GW loves to make and something that pissed off a lot of us Hams at the time. Dark Elves hate Chaos except for some cults that are not mainstream, and every time GW has put Orcs with Chaos it's ended up with Orcs punking Chaos and moonwalking out like the hilarious fuckers they are.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:51
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Eimi posted:Its a mistake GW loves to make and something that pissed off a lot of us Hams at the time. Dark Elves hate Chaos except for some cults that are not mainstream, and every time GW has put Orcs with Chaos it's ended up with Orcs punking Chaos and moonwalking out like the hilarious fuckers they are. Yeah the whole 'WE MIND CONTROLLED THE ORC LEADER' thing was kind of dumb. Wasn't it at the end of Storm of Chaos when the two big heroes of the Empire and Chaos were fighting, and the Chaos champion beat the poo poo out of Sigmar's avatar and was about to close in for the kill, when the biggest orc warboss just Kramered in, headbutted the Chaos champion and kicked him in the throat a few times, and then yelled 'I'M DA BEST!' and left with his followers who were just all 'YEAH HE IS DA BEST'? And because he almost died, all of the Chaos gods abandoned him and he lost all his powers and his control over his Chaos artifacts, and the status quo remained thanks to an orc just being a dick? Cause that's my favorite Warhammer story. e: It was. Grimgor's the best. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimgor_Ironhide#Da_Best.3F John Dyne fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 17:58
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Eimi posted:I've been able to log in to it just using their own launcher, though you have to change the settings of the files in your WAR folder from read only, for some reason. That's an entirely different issue (which I can't believe they don't just fix considering it's their #1 issue if their forums are any indication -- it's literally one line of code). I can start the game client but after it loads the character select screen it fails with a login timeout error. Firewall exceptions and manually opening ports doesn't fix the problem, and I'm sure as hell not going to install sketchy VPN software. A huge, simple issue going unfixed and completely fubar'd networking on their server end doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence that their server's going anywhere. Their real effort seems to be in just fleshing out the database, not in actually working on the emulator code.
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Sep 24, 2015 18:01
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John Dyne posted:Yeah the whole 'WE MIND CONTROLLED THE ORC LEADER' thing was kind of dumb. Wasn't it at the end of Storm of Chaos when the two big heroes of the Empire and Chaos were fighting, and the Chaos champion beat the poo poo out of Sigmar's avatar and was about to close in for the kill, when the biggest orc warboss just Kramered in, headbutted the Chaos champion and kicked him in the throat a few times, and then yelled 'I'M DA BEST!' and left with his followers who were just all 'YEAH HE IS DA BEST'? And because he almost died, all of the Chaos gods abandoned him and he lost all his powers and his control over his Chaos artifacts, and the status quo remained thanks to an orc just being a dick? Yeah it was, and it was all because GW made Orc players fight on the same side as Chaos. They collectively said gently caress that, hosed over everyone, and GW grudgingly let them sucker punch the Everchosen. Of course in End Times(which destroyed WFB) it's all about the Everchosen punching Grimgor in the dick forever as revenge for that. The writers /love/ Chaos.
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Sep 24, 2015 18:06
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So what you're saying is Chaos are the Warhammer equivalent of 40k's Space Marines?
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Sep 24, 2015 18:15
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SumYungGui posted:So what you're saying is Chaos are the Warhammer equivalent of 40k's Space Marines? Yup. They're the only super tall buff manly men in ridiculous armor after all. biznatchio posted:That's an entirely different issue (which I can't believe they don't just fix considering it's their #1 issue if their forums are any indication -- it's literally one line of code). I can start the game client but after it loads the character select screen it fails with a login timeout error. Firewall exceptions and manually opening ports doesn't fix the problem, and I'm sure as hell not going to install sketchy VPN software. Yeah that's very fair. It seems to be a very bare bones experience. Stuff just barely works and a lot of the fun parts of the WAR experience aren't in at all. Public quests are non functional. Collision barely works. Etc. Eimi fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 18:21
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