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Chumppell posted:He's so good at his job you didn't even notice the leaky IV Bag. Truly the greatest soldier that ever lived.
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Sep 24, 2015 03:12
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guys what if 'the truth' is a lie and V is secretly big boss???
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Sep 24, 2015 03:18
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the worst part about replaying the prologue as the final mission is I watched every cutscene expecting things to be different, but aside from the very beginning there was nothing new until the mission was over
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Sep 24, 2015 03:20
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Was Truth originally intended to be shown after Kingdom of the Flies? I watched the Kingdom of the Flies cut scene after I finished A Quiet End, not realizing there was more story in mission 46.
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Sep 24, 2015 03:24
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What if you're Big Boss? What if I'm Big Boss?
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Sep 24, 2015 03:25
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diamond dog posted:guys what if 'the truth' is a lie and V is secretly big boss??? but he is big boss you see? he is big boss and big boss is him they are one and the same together they're big boss and separate they are big boss everybody's big boss, big boss is everybody
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Sep 24, 2015 03:29
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what if v is a manifestation of bb's guilt and impostor complex. The Truth is part manipulation, part his mind breaking after the monotony of Chapter 2. ishy is you, like he says he is. a figment. bb riding around out there on a motorcycle is a ruse designed to protect the legend. Because you have a medic's teeth in your brain. the rocket attack was real and cipher rescued paz a hideo kojima game
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Sep 24, 2015 03:36
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InfinityComplex posted:but he is big boss you see? I like big Boss and I cannot lie All you other brothers can't deny I don't know the rest of the song
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Sep 24, 2015 03:38
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Squallege posted:What if you're Big Boss? What if I'm Big Boss? Kojima lingered on Big Boss in the credits. Big Boss isn't dead, he just faked his death again. This is canon. Because we are all Big Boss.
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Sep 24, 2015 04:33
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Dapper Dan posted:Kojima lingered on Big Boss in the credits. Big Boss isn't dead, he just faked his death again. This is canon. Because we are all Big Boss. Does that mean I'm gonna have to start eating bats and tarantulas? I don't think I wanna do that.
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Sep 24, 2015 04:38
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Of course not, you have to work your way up to that. Start out with a tree frog or a snake and see where that takes you.
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Sep 24, 2015 05:13
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Castor Poe posted:Does that mean I'm gonna have to start eating bats and tarantulas? I don't think I wanna do that. You don't? Grizzled Patriarch posted:I dunno, I think a lot of the time was spent on the gameplay, as usual. MGS has always been unique for the sheer amount of detail and depth that goes into everything. Everyone likes to compare this game to Witcher 3 but the actual gameplay in that game is shallow as hell compared to this. There just aren't really any other games that let you do as much poo poo as MGS games do, and while a bunch of people will say "who cares if you can shoot down dynamic power lines or ride fultoned cargo containers or short out electronics with a water gun, etc. etc.," those are the kind of things that make me love the series. That sort of stuff takes time. The game is also incredibly polished; there was that Quiet save file glitch, but other than that I haven't seen any big, game-breaking bugs or tons of glitches or buggy AI (aside from Mission 14) that plague every other AAA game. Yes, the game play is a little shallower in The Witcher 3, but besides that, I feel like 'The Witcher' is better than MGS V. Yeah, there's a lot of ways you can do things, but I feel like most people either won't bother or just do them once and go 'that's neat' and never use it again. The side-ops in this game were extremely repetitive, the scenery in some places meh and the story is just not good (as well as sparse) or really that satisfying (excusing it with 'well, that's the phantom pain!' isn't a defense). And Kojima switching characters on the player again is such a laughable, trolling dick move for what will essentially be the last Metal Gear game. He tries to butter people up, but it really comes off as a weak excuse. The Witcher 3 is a fine send off to the character of Geralt and comparing that to the send off of Big Boss makes it look pretty meh. Especially since you aren't even playing as Big Boss, just a random guy that becomes super evil because he has to in order for everything to work, which is in contradiction to a lot of what you have done. Konami said there's no more story DLC coming, which is fine honestly, because that won't fix any problems with the story. That being said, it isn't a bad game by any stretch and a lot better than other open world games (Fallout 3, Skyrim, etc.). Its more like Peace Walker 2 and doesn't really feel like a proper end to anything. Maybe that's intentional or just because Kojima didn't think he was leaving Konami when he finished it up story-wise and thought he'd be able to use the Fox Engine again in the future.
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Sep 24, 2015 05:33
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I'm really looking forward to a high difficulty mod, where you have to pull out all the tricks all the time. Closest I get to that is invading FOBs, but that's pretty much a lost cause from the start.
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Sep 24, 2015 05:45
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UAVs are easily the biggest dick move in FOBs. Killing them isn't hard but they always explode in really noisy fashion and you can't ignore them or they will eventually spot you. I've pretty much gotten the rest down to a science and with the helmet-piercing pistol and OHK sniper rifles and shotguns no amount of armor can save guards from instant death, but those goddamn UAVs force you to waste time dealing with them.
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Sep 24, 2015 05:58
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Dapper Dan posted:You don't? I dunno, I guess I just value gameplay more than story in a video game. If I want a really good story, an open-world video game is pretty close to the last place I would look. Different strokes and all. Witcher 3 has a lot of stuff going for it, but the combat is terrible and the open world feels just as empty and boring as every other open world game. The writing isn't bad, but it also isn't amazing. I think the themes in MGS are a hell of a lot more interesting than anything Witcher 3 has to say. A lot of people are just expecting way too much out an MGS story that is carrying the baggage of almost 30 years of plot that people want all tied up in a nice ribbon, and no other series has ever had to deal with that. TPP kind of relies on the player to make their own entertainment to some degree, and some people don't like that, which is fine. I think you end up missing out on what makes these games so great by skipping that stuff, though. The beauty of MGS games is that if you can think of it, Kojima probably did, too. The sheer number of ways you can approach any given mission blows every other open-world game out of the water - it's not even close. The story isn't the story a lot of people wanted, but that shouldn't color the perception of what we did get. The story isn't perfect, but there's a lot more meat to it than people give it credit for, and the fact that manages to make people reevaluate the entire series while dealing with the same themes and messages that the series has been exploring since its inception is pretty cool. Too many people just go "ugh, a twist ending?" and refuse to look beneath the surface.
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Sep 24, 2015 05:59
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I dunno, I guess I just value gameplay more than story in a video game. If I want a really good story, an open-world video game is pretty close to the last place I would look. Different strokes and all. Witcher 3 has a lot of stuff going for it, but the combat is terrible and the open world feels just as empty and boring as every other open world game. The writing isn't bad, but it also isn't amazing. I think the themes in MGS are a hell of a lot more interesting than anything Witcher 3 has to say. A lot of people are just expecting way too much out an MGS story that is carrying the baggage of almost 30 years of plot that people want all tied up in a nice ribbon, and no other series has ever had to deal with that. I love both games a lot, and I think the part I bolded is really shallow or you really didn't look at the writing in Witcher 3. MGS paints concepts in broad strokes, and supports these ideas with a crazy amount of detail. MGS are primarily gameplay driven games. The Witcher 3 does not make sweeping generalizations or attempt to preache a moral. Instead, it delivers realistic flawed characters who interact in a dynamic way. Witcher 3 has a lot to say about the nature of humanity and morality, and it's woven into the details every bit as much as Metal Gear Solid's themes are into it's minutiae. The sad fact of it is, W3 is the more polished title. I'm only here posting because of a series of glitches in MGSV hardlocking my ps4. A routine extraction during an FOB invasion caused an event loop where the extraction failed and kept attempting, complete with sound. The whole invasion this balloon was over there popping forever. The defender showed up and we had a showdown directly in the middle of the eternally popping, framrate dropping balloon. I killed him. When I died, I got to watch 3 straight minutes of "extraction failed" scroll across my screen before I could do anything. So I went back to single player. But wait! my FOB is getting invaded! Emergency mission! Why yes, I would like to defend my FOB. Game freezes for 50 seconds, before a guy from my single player game spots me, triggers and alert. I shoot him. Retry defend FOB. Game freezes. yes. GOTY indeed.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:25
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I dunno, I guess I just value gameplay more than story in a video game. If I want a really good story, an open-world video game is pretty close to the last place I would look. Different strokes and all. Witcher 3 has a lot of stuff going for it, but the combat is terrible and the open world feels just as empty and boring as every other open world game. The writing isn't bad, but it also isn't amazing. I think the themes in MGS are a hell of a lot more interesting than anything Witcher 3 has to say. A lot of people are just expecting way too much out an MGS story that is carrying the baggage of almost 30 years of plot that people want all tied up in a nice ribbon, and no other series has ever had to deal with that. I can agree or at least see your points in most of this, but really have to disagree on the bolded parts. Witcher 3 has a ton of poo poo going on in its open world - you can stumble onto quests, characters, random events and it just feels like a natural part of the world around you. It's certainly a lot more than The Phantom Pain's comparatively barren maps. Also The Witcher 3 deals with themes such as fatherhood, sacrifice, racism and political intrigue with a fairly deft touch. Hell, just the Bloody Baron's questline handles its point in a better fashion than most of TPP. There are points in which it nails it incredibly well - the Quarantine Massacre is incredible -, but the game just ends spinning its wheels for a while, and these moments are just too few and far between. Also, while TPP certainly offers more freedom and choice of engagement than pretty much any other game, to me it's kind of hard to compare it's gameplay to the Witcher, since they have very different approaches to fairly different genres. MGS V is a third person action game, and it's still beholden to the genre's style, much like The Witcher and Action RPGs. You can't argue or negotiate prices with the mission givers in MGS V, nor are those missions intersecting in different ways such as in The Witcher 3, just as don't have nearly as many options in combat as Geralt than as Venom Snake. Anyways, maybe it's splitting hairs - to me both of these game are definite contenders for Greatest of All Time, you just go with the one that resonates with you the most. Fake edit: Also I didn't find the combat in The Witcher 3 "terrible". It's certainly not great, but it's head and shoulders above the poo poo in the previous games of that series.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:30
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I mean gently caress, W3 has
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Sep 24, 2015 06:33
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The Unnamed One posted:Also The Witcher 3 deals with themes such as fatherhood, sacrifice, racism and political intrigue with a fairly deft touch. Hell, just the Bloody Baron's questline handles its point in a better fashion than most of TPP. Just wanted to post that. That one questline deals with mature themes way, way better than any part of MGSV story. Witcher 3 is really good in terms of story and it actually uses the open world to its advantage. You learn lots of stuff about the game world by travelling, listening to people, getting quests or looking at villages or people working in the fields. There are also parts where you can choose what part of plot you'll follow. And it has like three endings and all of them are really loving great and tie up the whole story (told across three games) really well. Even the bad ending. Snak posted:I mean gently caress, W3 has This. EDIT: I love MGSV, I really do but its greatest strenght is the gameplay which is a huge step up after MGS4.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:37
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http://i.imgur.com/pBZzovN.jpg
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Sep 24, 2015 06:37
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I dunno, I guess I just value gameplay more than story in a video game. If I want a really good story, an open-world video game is pretty close to the last place I would look. Different strokes and all. Witcher 3 has a lot of stuff going for it, but the combat is terrible and the open world feels just as empty and boring as every other open world game. The writing isn't bad, but it also isn't amazing. I think the themes in MGS are a hell of a lot more interesting than anything Witcher 3 has to say. A lot of people are just expecting way too much out an MGS story that is carrying the baggage of almost 30 years of plot that people want all tied up in a nice ribbon, and no other series has ever had to deal with that. I like story more, so I'm going to favor that over it. And I disagree, while I like MGS for its batshit insanity and its not making sense and grandiose complexity seemingly written by a Vietnam war veteran who fried his mind on LSD while reading too much 1984 and Issac Assimov, as well as Kojima's apparent disdain for anyone in the editing profession to make his work have any semblance of coherence, I never found its integration of themes compelling or well done. They were simply far too mired in extraneous and ridiculous poo poo to be of any poignancy (To be fair, I never thought Kojima was a good writer. A great game designer, however, yes). And there's just not enough in the story to carry any of the themes he's shooting at you in this game at least. You've got revenge, identity, language, country, deterrence all coming out in different directions and then fall flat because they don't really go anywhere or come to a solid conclusion. The game doesn't so much end as stop mid sentence. The transformation from your Venom who protects and nurtures war orphans to give them a better life outside of the hell they lived to someone who wants an eternal war and generate more war orphans for the meat grinder is basically never discussed and the transformation makes no sense given the context of the story itself. It seems like he reached in a dozen different directions but then sort of shrugged and forgot what the main point of the game was. You can tell what the main theme of 'The Witcher 3' is (Being a father in an uncaring world and loving someone so much that you trust them to let them go their own way, even if it means they will die). Obviously you can't tie a thirty year story in a nice ribbon, but it isn't unreasonable to at least expect at least something satisfying in this individual game, which just wasn't there. Like I said, I respect Kojima for tying his work together like 'The Dark Tower' and altering its perceptions (I kind of feel the latter was more incidental than intentional, as you've got thirty years of material to make the twist fit), I'm not denying that as an accomplishment. But there just needed to be more and at the end, you being Venom was a nice sentiment but I felt like it needed to be revealed earlier and have more of an impact on the game itself, such as tying into the morality system. Or see what Big Boss is doing and how your actions can either mirror his or separate from it, either avoiding or embracing your fate of becoming Venom. Maybe even exploit the players idolization of Big Boss to sink both you and Venom deeper into disgrace. Something like that. But then again, 'becoming a demon' really was never reflected in the game at all besides a cosmetic hero/demon system. Also, with the lateness of the twist, it really comes off as cheap. You can't blame people for basically being lied to for the last game in the series about a character they wanted to say goodbye to and Kojima goes 'You are all really Big Boss! Congratulations! (But you totally don't play as him, just some random knockoff I introduced in a five second cutscene lol But he's totally the best they've got *snicker*) You can't expect that to have a pass with a lot of people. The Witcher 3 presents themes and explores them to a satisfying conclusion. It supports them through the narrative, writing, world and gameplay. You can see the intentions of each theme, where they originate and where they are resolved and as to how they are reflected on. Not really so in this game. In the end, I think MGS V has a bad story but amazing gameplay. For me, I place more value on story than gameplay, so the Witcher is the better game for me. EDIT: I also shouldn't say its a bad story, but just one that is unfinished. Too bad Konami are such cunts. MGS V would be good with an expansion pack sized DLC ala Witcher 3, 20 hours of just story stuff. I'd pay for that. Dapper Dan fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 06:45
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I think Witcher 3 tackles racism better than MGS V did
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Sep 24, 2015 07:00
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/\/\/\/\ MGSV doesn't tackle it at all even though "race" is said to be one of its main themes. I think it would really help the game's story if Kojima played up the hallucination aspect more. Paz sideplot was really good, especially its ending and with her tapes it's one of the few parts of the game where it actually feels, I don't know, poetic?
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Sep 24, 2015 07:02
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if there was more hallucination stuff it would just lead to people discounting every little thing as a hallucination for the next decade so I'm glad there's not
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Sep 24, 2015 07:04
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Also, I finally listened to Code Talker's final tape "Superoganisms" and realized that "Race", as in the title of Chapter 2, is probably not supposed to refer to the human social construct of ethnicity, but rather to the human race and it's place in the natural order. Code talker is a clever character, because at first he seems like Native American stereotype, talking about nature constantly. But If you listen to all his tapes, it's really clear that his awe of nature is entirely based on his biological research. He doesn't care about "all natural organic food" or whatever, but he absolutely has an understanding of evolutionary forces.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:06
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its too bad that rumour about kaz being racist wasn't real
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Sep 24, 2015 07:08
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Snak posted:Also, I finally listened to Code Talker's final tape "Superoganisms" and realized that "Race", as in the title of Chapter 2, is probably not supposed to refer to the human social construct of ethnicity, but rather to the human race and it's place in the natural order.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:11
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Nakar posted:He's also the most intelligent scientist in the game. You think that's Huey, but no, Huey doesn't know what the gently caress he's talking about. Code Talker has actually done research. No joke, Code Talker is probably my favorite character in this game.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:13
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Terminally Bored posted:I think it would really help the game's story if Kojima played up the hallucination aspect more. Paz sideplot was really good, especially its ending and with her tapes it's one of the few parts of the game where it actually feels, I don't know, poetic? I think so too. Snak posted:Also, I finally listened to Code Talker's final tape "Superoganisms" and realized that "Race", as in the title of Chapter 2, is probably not supposed to refer to the human social construct of ethnicity, but rather to the human race and it's place in the natural order. Code Talker was probably my favorite character, though I never thought about that. I always thought of him more as a biological researcher first.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:13
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I didn't say W3 had more story, I said I didn't find it's story as compelling (which is 100% my own opinion and I have no problem with people disagreeing). I think the strength of W3's writing is in the emergent stuff, which is partly due to the fact that there are civilians just living their lives in the open world, while TPP is 100% military personnel on military bases. W3 has plenty of good writing, but huge swathes of it are just generic grimdark fantasy 101. But like I said, I don't really think any video game is going to be competing with great novels / films / TV shows any time soon. Open world games just have too many narrative limits in play. What makes me appreciate the MGS games more is that they aren't just trying to tell a tried-and-true narrative. Kojima is breaking the fourth wall and his writing deals, in a large part, with the nature of games themselves. Interactivity and the role of player agency are actually part of the story, and that's something that only games can do, which is very neat. MGS games embrace ludonarrative dissonance as an element of storytelling, where other games try to sweep it under the rug or write around it. It's a kind of story you aren't going to find anywhere else. W3's writing is strong on a technical level, but at the end of the day it is telling a story that could be just as easily told in a novel or a film. It's themes are resonant on an emotional level, but they aren't really engaging on any existential level. And not everyone wants a story that does, which is fine. W3's side quests were very good, and made a great use of the open world, but what I mean by that word being kind of empty and boring is that you really run into the same stuff over and over. Which is a flaw inherent to open world games in general, not W3 in particular. It feels more lived-in, though I think that's kind of a moot point because TPP isn't going for that sort of open-world. It's really only an open world game in the strictest possible sense. I also think TPP's side ops were largely pretty bland, and a step backward from Peace Walker. A lot of people are just having knee-jerk reactions to the twist in TPP and dismissing it all out of hand, assuming that Kojima is out to "trick" them instead of asking what else he might be trying to accomplish. I don't think the themes in TPP are just discarded or forgotten about - there is plenty of meat there. But again, my biggest gripe with W3 is the gameplay. I had to switch to an alternate movement option to even make the game feel playable, the combat is incredibly repetitive and shallow (I'm also not a fan of that Batman-esque combat in any game, just gonna be up front with my bias there), the responsiveness and camera can be annoying as hell, there are tons of graphics issues (at least on PS4) and for all of the people complaining about the chopper rides and menus in TPP, I found navigating the menus in W3 to be worse by orders of magnitude, especially given how often you have to use them. W3 has a lot going for it, and it's one of the best games of the year for me, as well, but I had to struggle to beat it because I was feeling burnt out on it, and I will very likely never pick it up again. I've already put more hours into TPP than I have into W3 and I'm still having a total blast. quote:The sad fact of it is, W3 is the more polished title. Gotta disagree here. I've had 2 TPP hardlocks across 120+ hours on PS4, and both came after the most recent patch, which seems to be the experience of other people encountering them. I had 2 hardlocks in the first hour of W3, and probably a dozen more after that. The frame rate is a loving mess on PS4, there is pop-in galore, I've had glitches where the textures just poo poo themselves or the sky disappeared or the AI just didn't respond at all, etc. Hell, it had a day 1 patch that broke more than it fixed. I don't believe that anyone who has played a substantial amount of both games can walk away from it saying that TPP has more issues than W3. I will say that W3's more generous checkpoint system certainly makes the major fuckups less frustrating, though. Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 07:14
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I didn't say W3 had more story, I said I didn't find it's story as compelling (which is 100% my own opinion and I have no problem with people disagreeing). I think the strength of W3's writing is in the emergent stuff, which is partly due to the fact that there are civilians just living their lives in the open world, while TPP is 100% military personnel on military bases. W3 has plenty of good writing, but huge swathes of it are just generic grimdark fantasy 101. But like I said, I don't really think any video game is going to be competing with great novels / films / TV shows any time soon. Open world games just have too many narrative limits in play. Great games could compete with those, sure. At the very least story wise they can compete with pretty good movies and novels, etc. To me the medium isn't really a problem, you can tell a terrific story in any of those mediums.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:20
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I didn't say W3 had more story, I said I didn't find it's story as compelling (which is 100% my own opinion and I have no problem with people disagreeing). I think the strength of W3's writing is in the emergent stuff, which is partly due to the fact that there are civilians just living their lives in the open world, while TPP is 100% military personnel on military bases. W3 has plenty of good writing, but huge swathes of it are just generic grimdark fantasy 101. But like I said, I don't really think any video game is going to be competing with great novels / films / TV shows any time soon. Open world games just have too many narrative limits in play. I'm really not trying to attack you or bite your head off. But everything that you are attributing to Kojima, breaking the the fourth wall, etc, is also done in W3. BUT let's not argue about who did it better. You say that W3's themes could have been done better in a novel. Well, that kind of makes sense, since the Witcher franchise is literally groundbreaking in multimedia adaptations of books. Books have been made into movies a lot. Some of them are good. But frequently, the issue is that movies lack the runtime and flexible perspectives that books allow. Witcher games are love-letters to the written source material. Now, if you didn't find it's stories (let's face it, calling W3 one story is reductive and foolish) compelling, that's fine. It's a matter of taste and preference. But what trigger my (and I think others) responses, is that you said it had less to say. Which is what I am claiming is false. MGS deals with broad strokes. These themes are reinforced with layers of tiny details, but their messages are not complex or nuanced. This is not a flaw. However, it is not better than the type of stories that W3 tells, where the details flesh-out the characters rather than the plot. As for the gameplay complaints... well that's a matter of taste as well. I personally, find W3's default controls refreshing. I can't stand the turn-on-a-dime controls that games like GTA have and I like weight to the movement. I don't have a problem with other people's opinions, until they try to make claims of objective quality. W3's movement isn't inherently worse than other games, but it is definitly different, as is it's combat. It think it's funny that we're having this discussion in the MGSV thread of all places, because MGS is another franchise that expects you to learn it's controls because it's nothing like any other "standard" shooter. I think the type of barrier to entry of both games is pretty similar: You have to forget what you think you know about the genre and dive into what the game is trying to be. Grizzled Patriarch posted:Gotta disagree here. I've had 2 TPP hardlocks across 120+ hours on PS4, and both came after the most recent patch, which seems to be the experience of other people encountering them. I had 2 hardlocks in the first hour of W3, and probably a dozen more after that. The frame rate is a loving mess on PS4, there is pop-in galore, I've had glitches where the textures just poo poo themselves or the sky disappeared or the AI just didn't respond at all, etc. Hell, it had a day 1 patch that broke more than it fixed. Ultimately, our tiny amounts of anecdotal evidence aren't going to crown the king of stability. I also had no performance issues in W3, but I heard lots of accounts of people who did. Snak fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 07:26
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I finished MGSV with around 80% completion but I got bored and stopped playing Witcher 3 after 30ish hours well that's my story
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Sep 24, 2015 07:28
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Snak posted:I'm really not trying to attack you or bite your head off. But everything that you are attributing to Kojima, breaking the the fourth wall, etc, is also done in W3. BUT let's not argue about who did it better. Nothing in W3 deals with that ludonarrative dissonance, though. The story isn't treating the fact that it is a game being played by a person that isn't Geralt as an integral element of the storytelling. That is what is unique about MGS. I don't think it's "foolish" to call W3 one story, though. Just because it has multiple plotlines doesn't change the fact that is is a single narrative at the end of the day. You don't call a novel with multiple POVs "novels." And again, I'm not saying MGS's style of storytelling is "better" than W3 (and similarly, W3 isn't "better" than MGS), merely that I, personally, find MGS's storytelling much more compelling because it approaches it's narrative in a way that I haven't seen thousands of times already. Every game makes you learn its controls to some degree, but MGS's are a lot more intuitive (in the sense that anyone who has played a shooter is going to be familiar with how the majority of buttons work right off the bat) and objectively more responsive. I can totally appreciate that you like more weight to your movement, but imo W3's was completely exaggerated. In the default mode he handles like a boat. A human being in real life doesn't move like that. They don't move like they do in TPP either, to be fair, but if it's going to be unrealistic either way, I'd rather have precision. quote:
Some of the issues are anecdotal, sure, but others aren't. The terrible framerate and pop-in are pretty universal issues, and I find it hard to believe you've never encountered it (assuming you played it on PS4). TPP has some problem areas (Mission 14, the Quiet save bug) but the single-player experience is a lot more polished. I will completely concede that the online stuff is hosed up, though. edit: and I do want to emphasize again that I don't think W3 has a bad story. I think it told the stories it wanted to tell very effectively. They are just stories that didn't necessarily grip me, partly because I've seen them all before, and partly because I spent so much time exploring and doing side quests that the urgency of the plot lines felt very forced and hollow (which is not the fault of the game. It reminded me of playing FFVII and going to the Golden Saucer to play mini-games while a meteor was falling) Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 07:37
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Nothing in W3 deals with that ludonarrative dissonance, though. The story isn't treating the fact that it is a game being played by a person that isn't Geralt as an integral element of the storytelling. That is what is unique about MGS. Your first point I totally agree with. W3 does not tackle that. Several of the Witcher books are anthologies of short stories, and the game design definitely reflects this. So yes, I think it's fair to say "stories". I think that the "Family Matters" quest line has basically as much story as all of MGSV. I literally did not have frame-rate or pop-in issues on the PS4 despite expecting them based on other people having them. Maybe playing without any hud elements impacted that?
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Sep 24, 2015 07:44
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Snak posted:MGS deals with broad strokes. These themes are reinforced with layers of tiny details, but their messages are not complex or nuanced. This is not a flaw. However, it is not better than the type of stories that W3 tells, where the details flesh-out the characters rather than the plot. I haven't played Witcher 3 yet, look forward to it though, so I can't weigh in here. But while I love Witcher 2, I'll say I like MGS stories overall better than that one, if it's comparable. The style of Witcher 2's story doesn't seem too different from Mass Effect and Dragon Age to me really (I love those). The first short stories collection is on my to read list, and Geralt is a unique character and all. But the characters in Watcher 2 don't seem all that nuanced and different from what we're used to. All of these including MGS deal with moral grey areas and whatnot, and have NPCs that give us exposition on stuff. Granted, it's all well done stuff, I'm just not sure what Witcher is doing that's a cut above the other really great stuff out there. But from where I sit, all the stuff we're comparing is pretty great. And I look forward to checking out Witcher 3 sometime soon. And of course, Witcher 3 is probably better than Witcher 2. Another thing about story, it's everything including all the dialogue. Are NPCs sometimes dull in Witcher 3? In say GTA5, that game has some of the best dialogue and really entertaining characters, for me it compares favorably with Tarantino's last few movies. And in general comparing games like Witcher and MGS across several genres of gameplay and story, it's just personal taste.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:49
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Snak posted:Your first point I totally agree with. W3 does not tackle that. You are probably right that it has more raw story. W3 as a whole is a much larger narrative, and the fact that it is a true open-world game makes it feel like a much larger game world, as well. There is more going on in W3, (tons of moving pieces, factions, politicians, plotlines, etc.) but I don't necessarily think that makes it "better." Like I mentioned before, the narrative of TPP is inherently going to be a bit restricted by the fact that you are only really dealing with the stories of a small handful of people. W3 has a giant cast of characters who all have motivations and backstories and associated quests and sidequests, etc., and it has also has civilians who all have their own stories. TPP does a pretty good job of breathing life into the larger Soviet army bases (there is a ton of really good chatter between guards, but most people will never hear any of it because they'll be busy shooting them in the face from a mile away and tying them to balloons), but it's just not the same kind of game. You never get those little cutscenes like you've got in W3 when you roll up into a sidequest and have a chat with an NPC - they just aren't approaching their narratives in a remotely comparable way, and there's simply no way TPP was ever going to have as much story. This is why MGS games are largely more concerned with thematic storytelling and the nature of games themselves. There simply isn't any room for the typical open-world style of fleshing out narratives. Your no-HUD playing might have been the cure for those issues, I couldn't say. The framerate drops were pretty terrible any time a cutscene was playing, or anytime you were panning the camera too quickly. That and the pop-in seem to be almost universal. Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 07:55
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Dapper Dan posted:And Kojima switching characters on the player again is such a laughable, trolling dick move for what will essentially be the last Metal Gear game. You're both Big Boss, together. Did your Venom Snake even pop in that cassette from The Man Who Sold The World? I don't think it's laughable personally, thought it was incredibly cool and clever.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:57
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Heavy Metal posted:I haven't played Witcher 3 yet, look forward to it though, so I can't weigh in here. But while I love Witcher 2, I'll say I like MGS stories overall better than that one, if it's comparable. The style of Witcher 2's story doesn't seem too different from Mass Effect and Dragon Age to me really (I love those). The first short stories collection is on my to read list, and Geralt is a unique character and all. But the characters in Watcher 2 don't seem all that nuanced and different from what we're used to. All of these including MGS deal with moral grey areas and whatnot, and have NPCs that give us exposition on stuff. Granted, it's all well done stuff, I'm just not sure what Witcher is doing that's a cut above the other really great stuff out there. For what it's worth I found GTAV to be unplayably boring. I put probably 40 hours into it before coming to that conclusion. I just want to reiterate: I'm not attacking anyone's personal opinion of Witcher 3. My criticism had been entirely directed at assertions of objective quality. Witcher 2 is a good game. Witcher 3 is head-and-shoulders above it in every way. Gameplay, story, etc. I would recommend W3 even to people who hated Witcher 2, because I can totally get get hating Witcher 2. Since this is the MGSV plot thread, after-all, I will conclude by saying that I think the story of MGSV, including the released Mission 51 content, is pretty great. There's a lot of details, especially those buried in the tape, that have given me plenty to think about. I think that the delivery of MGSV's story suffered because of a commitment to gameplay. MGS games have always been based on a great gameplay, first and foremost. The story and mythology has been built around providing this gameplay. I think that Kojima had two great visions: The greatest, open-world, MGS game possible, and a story that somehow lives up to the hype of being both the missing link and the final chapter. I think we got about 90% of the first vision and 60% of the second vision. And I don't mean technically. He may have conveyed the entire plot he had written, but given Kojima's flare for storytelling, I have no doubt that, given the chance, he would have better fleshed-out the story we got.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:59
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Ruddha posted:its too bad that rumour about kaz being racist wasn't real he's half japanese though which means half racist, unless the other half is what ever i am in which case full
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Sep 24, 2015 08:03
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