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karneisada posted:All of these replies are great. I'm glad we got a discussion going about what a power fantasy even is. I wasn't even really thinking of action movies so much as movies that are the most nonsensical extreme of societal expectations on us. I guess I was just approaching it in a different way, but yeah the responses in this thread have made me want to check out some movies I haven't seen previously. It's interesting that people have come to the thread with two different ideas, one being a kind of "satire by way of extremes" power fantasy like you describe, and others where women take on so-called "masculine" roles and kick butt. I've been thinking about this concept a lot this week and it still feels vaguely bullshit but it's funny that some people tear down some "female power fantasy" films for simply swapping a male kick-butt role with a woman (e.g. Alien), because that's basing a concept - that violence is inherently male - off of a historical concept that has been, and still does, put women down and make them powerless. It's like people moaning over female pirate characters or even black people in historical fiction - not only were there black people in Venice and women commandeering pirate ships, but they've been almost entirely put out of our historical memory entirely, unless you're the kind of person to go around digging up these things or had a really cool history professor. I guess the question that comes out is what is "better" - a female fantasy power film where a woman takes on a role seen as masculine, or a female fantasy power film where a woman maxes out her possible feminine role? Is the former damaging, does the latter endorse stereotype? Is a calculatedly feminist action film less legitimate for coming from a big system run by straight white men?
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Sep 21, 2015 19:33
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Magic Hate Ball posted:I guess the question that comes out is what is "better" - a female fantasy power film where a woman takes on a role seen as masculine, or a female fantasy power film where a woman maxes out her possible feminine role? Is the former damaging, does the latter endorse stereotype? Is a calculatedly feminist action film less legitimate for coming from a big system run by straight white men? This is why I was trying to sidestep this question by defining the power fantasy as a story archetype where the protagonist does not need to change or improve in order to win. This ended up we me mostly suggesting "masculine role" action movies, however. But that's a really good question that I think drills down towards the core issue. I don't have an answer, though. edit: v I can say that I don't remember seeing motion blur in any shots like that, but that's not very useful, sorry. Snak fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 19:41
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Crosspost from the AV thread. Does anyone know if silhouette shots from 80s martial arts movies training montages had motion blur or not? I can't find any example footage and I can't recall if they were shot with a really narrow shutter or not.
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Sep 21, 2015 19:47
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Snak posted:This is why I was trying to sidestep this question by defining the power fantasy as a story archetype where the protagonist does not need to change or improve in order to win. This ended up we me mostly suggesting "masculine role" action movies, however. Haha, no, I don't really either, but it's interesting and enlightening to think about. I mean, it could be that most female power fantasies where someone starts out kicking rear end and spends the movie proving just how kick-rear end they are without really having to worry about being really disproven as being good at kicking rear end scan as masculine in contrast to the cultural norms that dictate that women have to show some maternal flaw, or have to rise to the level of men. On the other hand, a character showing a flaw also usually makes them more interesting, which brings up the other issue, which is that men tend to have more character flexibility in media than women, who seem (or so it seems) more often to be tasked with being representative of women in general.
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Sep 21, 2015 20:08
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Haha, no, I don't really either, but it's interesting and enlightening to think about. I mean, it could be that most female power fantasies where someone starts out kicking rear end and spends the movie proving just how kick-rear end they are without really having to worry about being really disproven as being good at kicking rear end scan as masculine in contrast to the cultural norms that dictate that women have to show some maternal flaw, or have to rise to the level of men. On the other hand, a character showing a flaw also usually makes them more interesting, which brings up the other issue, which is that men tend to have more character flexibility in media than women, who seem (or so it seems) more often to be tasked with being representative of women in general. Well, and it's also that there are plenty of movies about male characters that need to adapt or improve, but that I wouldn't consider to be "power fantasies". The issue is that there are simple so many more male protagonists than female. Secondarily, due to social expectations, female protagonists are often chosen specifically when a weak protagonist is needed. While these things say more about our society's historical gender politics than the nature of story-telling, it means that we have a very skewed pool of films to draw examples from. It would be very interesting to examine this question in the context of literature. While I don't expect gender politics to have a great history there, literature/writing has a much larger, older pool to draw from, and lacks some of the temptation to visual objective female characters allowed by the medium of film. edit: What I consider the single most important aspect of gender politics addressed in G.I. Jane is that it's not that women can't hack it in a mixed-gender infantry unit, but that men can't cope with seeing women injured. This same type of emotional weakness in the stereotypical male is exploited in film, where men feel more empathy for women in danger than men. So, in somewhat contradictory logic, if you want to put male audience members in a victims shoes through the main character, it's more effective to have a female victim. I'm not defending this logic of victimizing female characters, but I think it demonstrates how it's a not a straightforward problem at all. Snak fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 20:46
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Maybe not movie related exactly but does anyone know if there's a site or something that has full broadcasts of stuff, with commercials and everything? Found some stuff on youtube by searching "with commercials" but like - not exactly ideal!
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Sep 22, 2015 01:13
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Yeah, it seems to be a Catch-22. Hollywood is representative of gender stereotypes in society and society is influenced by Hollywood. ^^ I wouldn't think so. Pirates edit ads out for obvious reasons and legitimate sources would replace the ads because the initial advertising agreement would have been for TV time and they can make money off another party who want to advertise on their online platform.
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Sep 22, 2015 01:44
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Hat Thoughts posted:Maybe not movie related exactly but does anyone know if there's a site or something that has full broadcasts of stuff, with commercials and everything? Found some stuff on youtube by searching "with commercials" but like - not exactly ideal! I think I'm missing your point here but http://betamaxmas.com/ (a goon project) has some terrific old commercials amidst Christmas specials and Ronnie Reagan's Christmas address. Someone linked me some MST3K uncut with commercials but as far as what you're actually asking I really have no idea.
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Sep 22, 2015 01:49
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syscall girl posted:I think I'm missing your point here but http://betamaxmas.com/ (a goon project) has some terrific old commercials amidst Christmas specials and Ronnie Reagan's Christmas address. Nah this is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for, thanks friend!
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Sep 22, 2015 03:42
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I feel like you have to be hyper-specific to pick decades. What was the best decade for low-budget action movies? What was the best decade for romantic comedies? These end up making more interesting lists imo.
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Sep 22, 2015 09:32
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karneisada posted:I feel like you have to be hyper-specific to pick decades. What was the best decade for low-budget action movies? What was the best decade for romantic comedies? These end up making more interesting lists imo. I don't even think decades work well, because the cutoff are arbitrary. Like you could make a case that 1986-1995 and 1996-2005 are as different as the 80s and 90s.
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Sep 22, 2015 09:36
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What was the movie that the effects artists on the 2011 version of the Thing did next?
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Sep 23, 2015 04:14
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Armyman25 posted:What was the movie that the effects artists on the 2011 version of the Thing did next? Start digging through this http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0905372/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm because a lot of people are listed under special effects.
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Sep 23, 2015 04:20
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Armyman25 posted:What was the movie that the effects artists on the 2011 version of the Thing did next? Well I'm not sure which artists to look at, since makeup and VFX and stuff are all different. Michael Broom, who was credited as creature designer, did some work for The Cabin in the Woods. As for studios, there's like 5-6 listed, and they've worked on everything from Godzilla to the Carrie remake. I'm sure someone can give a better answer, but this imdb page lists all the "Special Effects" companies credited on The Thing(2011). (I put "Special Effects" in quotes because I think in this case that includes Visual Effects)
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Sep 23, 2015 04:27
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Armyman25 posted:What was the movie that the effects artists on the 2011 version of the Thing did next? Harbinger Down
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Sep 23, 2015 04:31
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Hat Thoughts posted:Harbinger Down I think that's it. Thanks! More specifically I understand that the people who did all the creature effects were unhappy with their work being covered up by CGI and made Harbinger Down do show off their practical effects. Armyman25 fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Sep 23, 2015 |
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Sep 23, 2015 04:43
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Armyman25 posted:I think that's it. Thanks! Considering how bad Harbinger Down was I don't think they're in any position to be criticizing other people's creative decisions.
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Sep 23, 2015 05:13
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Sleeveless posted:Considering how bad Harbinger Down was I don't think they're in any position to be criticizing other people's creative decisions. Well, being talented in one area doesn't necessarily carry over to another. I am interested in seeing what they came up with though.
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Sep 23, 2015 05:16
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From the screenshots Harbinger Down looks like a grab-bag of "here's stuff we wished would have made it into The Thing." How bad of a movie are we talking about? Is it worth watching for the creature effects?
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Sep 23, 2015 16:25
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So I had a Cinematic Language Wankery question and I thought this would be the best place to ask. In an animated movie I recently watched (The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya, if anyone cares), a particularly pregnant pause during an emotional conversation is punctuated by a pretty long shot of a city skyline, and the interesting thing about the shot is that it's entirely out of focus. That's not the first time I've seen a shot like that, which got me wondering - can any bigger film buffs than me tell me what unfocused shots like that are usually used to signify, in more detail than "this is an emotional moment?" And why that meaning is associated with a shot that's entirely out of focus? Is it supposed to evoke someone going all misty-eyed?
Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 05:56
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Spiritus Nox posted:So I had a Cinematic Language Wankery question and I thought this would be the best place to ask. In an animated movie I recently watched (The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya, if anyone cares), a particularly pregnant pause during an emotional conversation is punctuated by a pretty long shot of a city skyline, and the interesting thing about the shot is that it's entirely out of focus. That's not the first time I've seen a shot like that, which got me wondering - can any bigger film buffs than me tell me what unfocused shots like that are usually used to signify, in more detail than "this is an emotional moment?" And why that meaning is associated with a shot that's entirely out of focus? Well, I'm no Andre Bazin, but the first thing that comes to mind is that it reflects an unsure, cloudy mood where things aren't fully understood.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:02
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I Before E posted:Well, I'm no Andre Bazin, but the first thing that comes to mind is that it reflects an unsure, cloudy mood where things aren't fully understood. Hm. Well, that definitely isn't the meaning in the scene I'm discussing. If a bit more context helps, the basic outline of the scene is this: the movie's basically over, the main character's friend is going "hey everything that happened was basically my fault and you probably hate me now and my boss is going to literally kill me," and then the main character basically goes "naw we're cool, btw tell your boss that if anything ever happens to you then Imma gently caress him up", then we have the pregnant pause over the unfocused shot of the city, "Thank you", end scene. They seem to end the scene with much more understanding, clarity than they entered it with. Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 06:07
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I'm not sure how we're supposed to analyze the meaning conveyed by a visual stylistic choice without seeing it.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:15
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Snak posted:I'm not sure how we're supposed to analyze the meaning conveyed by a visual stylistic choice without seeing it. Fair point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvVT3UYGCPI The shot in question is at 2:32:35. The scene starts at about 2:26:00 and ends on that shot. Like I said, I really like the shot, but I just can't put my finger on where it comes from or why it works.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:17
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Cinematic technique is not like a language, and stylistic choices always have to be read within the context of the scene and film they are in. That said, maybe it has some relation to Ozu's pillow shots?
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Sep 24, 2015 06:18
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Cinematic technique is not like a language, and stylistic choices always have to be read within the context of the scene and film they are in. That said, maybe it has some relation to Ozu's pillow shots? Yeah! That seems to be getting warmer - the movie, and the show it's the finale to, seem to do that sort of shot ("a cutaway, for no obvious narrative reason, to a visual element, often a landscape or an empty room, that is held for a significant time (five or six seconds). It can be at the start of a scene or during a scene. At a minimum, in Ozu’s work, these pillow shots inject a sense of calm and serenity...“Far from diluting our emotional response, this intensifies it by giving us time to share the feelings unfolding on screen.”") quite a bit. I'm still intruiged by the decision to make this particular shot out of focus, though. Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 06:21
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karneisada posted:I feel like you have to be hyper-specific to pick decades. What was the best decade for low-budget action movies? What was the best decade for romantic comedies? These end up making more interesting lists imo. I think you have to consider decades as times inside people's minds, not years in a calendar. I've always maintained that, for the older millennials, the ones currently in their late 20's or early 30's, "the 90's" is a cultural space that exists between when they saw their first Disney movie in theaters and 9/11/01. This will come into play as they get even older and go straight up their own asses with the self-referential nostalgia films and such.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:22
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Spiritus Nox posted:Yeah! That seems to be getting warmer - the movie, and the show it's the finale to, seem to do that sort of shot ("a cutaway, for no obvious narrative reason, to a visual element, often a landscape or an empty room, that is held for a significant time (five or six seconds). It can be at the start of a scene or during a scene. At a minimum, in Ozu’s work, these pillow shots inject a sense of calm and serenity...“Far from diluting our emotional response, this intensifies it by giving us time to share the feelings unfolding on screen.”") quite a bit. I'm still intruiged by the decision to make this particular shot out of focus, though.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:48
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Spiritus Nox posted:Yeah! That seems to be getting warmer - the movie, and the show it's the finale to, seem to do that sort of shot ("a cutaway, for no obvious narrative reason, to a visual element, often a landscape or an empty room, that is held for a significant time (five or six seconds). It can be at the start of a scene or during a scene. At a minimum, in Ozu’s work, these pillow shots inject a sense of calm and serenity...“Far from diluting our emotional response, this intensifies it by giving us time to share the feelings unfolding on screen.”") quite a bit. I'm still intruiged by the decision to make this particular shot out of focus, though. Maybe it's an anime-specific thing, because that reminds me of some Cowboy Bebop shots.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:56
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Joakim Brecht posted:For me the important part of this shot isn't really the skyline that is out of focus, but the thing in the foreground that isn't, meaning the falling snow. I don't know what the scene is about exactly, but falling snow evokes in me a sense of time passing, of things passing, and maybe even death. Oh wow, I hadn't even thought about the snow. Yeah, that's probably the trick to that shot, because the snow's definitely important to the scene. Snow's an obvious visual motif throughout the movie, being strongly associated with one of the key characters. effectual posted:Maybe it's an anime-specific thing, because that reminds me of some Cowboy Bebop shots. The article made it sound like more of a broad Artsy Japanese Media thing, really. I definitely remember a lot of long shots of landscapes or empty rooms that seem to "intensify our emotional response by giving us time to share the feelings unfolding on screen" in the Haruhi stuff and in Evangelion, just off the top of my head, and I'm sure I've seen it in other works I can't place right this second.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:07
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Spiritus Nox posted:I'm sure I've seen it in other works I can't place right this second.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:16
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Yeah. I was just saying that I've seen stuff that seems like it would qualify as a 'pillow shot' in a lot of japanese media in particular. Didn't mean to imply that Western directors don't use them.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:38
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Spiritus Nox posted:Fair point. It's focusing on the snowflakes and is meant either as a moment to reflect and gather your emotions or to grab another wad of pocky with your sweaty, grease-stained weeaboo hands.
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Sep 25, 2015 08:30
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When did "9/11 imagery" become a popular term? It seems like Avengers was the first time I really heard it with any frequency.
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Sep 27, 2015 15:16
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Kind of a dick answer, but: after 9/11. Cloverfield is the first movie I can think of that frequently got those comparisons/complaints, but that was seven years later and I'm sure it wasn't the first. Edit: Actually, War of the Worlds was before that in 2005. morestuff fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 15:39
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computer parts posted:When did "9/11 imagery" become a popular term? It seems like Avengers was the first time I really heard it with any frequency. As far as I know, anything remotely tall that collapsed after 9/11 got called this. Also, prior to 9/11, the general public had a lot of misconceptions about how large buildings collapsed. Post 9/11, people's expectations of how buildings collapsed was vividly informed by the twin tower's collapse.
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Sep 27, 2015 15:39
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computer parts posted:When did "9/11 imagery" become a popular term? It seems like Avengers was the first time I really heard it with any frequency. I can say with some confidence its within the last 15 years at any rate.
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Sep 27, 2015 16:17
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Fight Club has some good 9/11 imagery.
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Sep 27, 2015 17:33
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morestuff posted:Kind of a dick answer, but: after 9/11. Cloverfield is the first movie I can think of that frequently got those comparisons/complaints, but that was seven years later and I'm sure it wasn't the first. Yeah, I guess I do remember that about Cloverfield too.
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Sep 27, 2015 17:36
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Snak posted:Also, prior to 9/11, the general public had a lot of misconceptions about how large buildings collapsed. Post 9/11, people's expectations of how buildings collapsed was vividly informed by the twin tower's collapse. Also, post 9/11, the general public has a lot of misconceptions about how large buildings collapse.
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Sep 28, 2015 18:56
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