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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:He Yup, the team played the same drab, boring poo poo like Chelsea under him, only on a budget.
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Sep 24, 2015 20:43
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resigned
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straight up brolic posted:don't feel special. he was out-managed by paul lambert in every single one of their fixtures. pretty funny that both rodgers and lambert turned out to be garbagemen despite their cool first seasons in the PL
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Sep 24, 2015 21:00
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hi! delusional Newcastle fan checking in. I would like to officially register our interest in Seņor Klopp as well.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:10
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vyelkin posted:pretty funny that both rodgers and lambert turned out to be garbagemen despite their cool first seasons in the PL Lambert was ruined by Villa's financial restraints, he'll be back. Rodgers isn't as bad as people make out either he's just failing to get Liverpool into top 4 contention, which is something nearly all managers are going to struggle with.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:22
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As I have said many times, the extent to which Rodgers is garbage depends wholly on how much responsibility he had for Liverpool's transfers. They've signed hot garbage for years now and no manager would have taken them to fourth.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:27
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Blue Star Error posted:Lambert was ruined by Villa's financial restraints, he'll be back. Rodgers isn't as bad as people make out either he's just failing to get Liverpool into top 4 contention, which is something nearly all managers are going to struggle with. Yeah it's this. We can't compete with City, United, Chelsea, and Arsenal on a financial level yet if we don't finish top four it's considered a failure. It's not a nice job.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:34
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blue footed boobie posted:As I have said many times, the extent to which Rodgers is garbage depends wholly on how much responsibility he had for Liverpool's transfers. They've signed hot garbage for years now and no manager would have taken them to fourth. They haven't got a lot of choice though. At the top end of quality the market for footballers is remarkably efficient at getting the best players to the best teams. In the prem, how many players outside top 4 clubs are good enough to play for those clubs? A handful, maybe half a team. Without an infinite money owner the only chance a team has of breaking into the top 4 is if they find a Suarez or a Bale and thats just not sustainable as they'll be off as soon as a more entrenched club comes calling.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:39
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There have been some real stinkers on the transfer front, but Liverpool's overall squad is actually decent and should at least be making a better stab at top 4 finishes, especially given the money spent. There have been so many performances that reek of bad tactics, bad coaching, and ridiculously low levels of self-awareness over the past season and this season so far that Rodgers is justifiably held responsible for those results. Rodgers might not be helped be the lack of an infinite treasure chest, but just saying it's the transfers is giving him way too mich credit. His limitations have been found out. Luis Suarez needs to come back as player manager.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:51
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Ewar Woowar posted:Yeah it's this. Wtf are you talking about? Liverpool have spent much more money than Arsenal over the last 5 years. In fact, Liverpool have spent almost as much as Man Utd over the course of Premier League history.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:01
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Liverpool don't pay the same wages though. That said, that Liverpool line up last night should have been smashing through loving Carlisle at Anfield rather than scraping through off some shoddy Carlisle penalties.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:04
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Ninpo posted:Liverpool don't pay the same wages though. If that's their excuse, here's an idea: buy half as many wastemen, attract better ones with twice the wages.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:08
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PirateBob posted:Wtf are you talking about? Liverpool have spent much more money than Arsenal over the last 5 years. In fact, Liverpool have spent almost as much as Man Utd over the course of Premier League history. When you put it like that though it sounds like its cumulative squad improvements and its not. Its buying a load of players not good enough to get them to the top 4 for more money than they are worth because they have to pay Liverpool prices, and then selling them 1-3 years later for a loss and repeating the cycle. Also transfer fees mean gently caress all when the teams ahead of you are offering 50-100k more in wages and Champions League football.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:10
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Blue Star Error posted:When you put it like that though it sounds like its cumulative squad improvements and its not. Its buying a load of players not good enough to get them to the top 4 for more money than they are worth because they have to pay Liverpool prices, and then selling them 1-3 years later for a loss and repeating the cycle. This is basically what I was getting at. They just keep acquiring expensive dead wood each year, and it constricts their ability to pay competitive wages or buy players that are actually good. In truth it's all quite a Mrs now and they'll be bogged down for years to come.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:26
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PirateBob posted:If that's their excuse, here's an idea: buy half as many wastemen, attract better ones with twice the wages. capex isn't the same as opex though when it comes to running a business. Transfer fees are a one off expenditure and wages are an entirely different kettle of fish. Like I said in the league cup thread, Liverpool's issue is ongoing revenue, one they massively dropped the ball on in the 90s/00s by not upgrading their stadium and capitalising on the Liverpool "brand" when their stock was still high. Now they're in/around league placings that other similarly sized teams like Spurs are, except Spurs can at least offer living in London.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:31
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Brony Car posted:There have been some real stinkers on the transfer front, but Liverpool's overall squad is actually decent and should at least be making a better stab at top 4 finishes, especially given the money spent. There have been so many performances that reek of bad tactics, bad coaching, and ridiculously low levels of self-awareness over the past season and this season so far that Rodgers is justifiably held responsible for those results. I think it's less a case that the transfers are inherently bad as much as that the transfers are for players that Liverpool don't need, and that are suited to formations Liverpool don't play. The difficulty is in establishing if that's because of Brodgers or because people who own baseball teams don't understand that not all midfielders are fungible.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:34
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It still maddens me that Liverpool almost hired Van Gaal as a Director of Football to reshape the club into a properly-run outfit and gave that up because Brendan Rodgers did not want that kind of oversight.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:39
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If only we had a manager who could consistently get us into the Champions League, even into the final a couple of times.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:39
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blue footed boobie posted:This is basically what I was getting at. They just keep acquiring expensive dead wood each year, and it constricts their ability to pay competitive wages or buy players that are actually good. In truth it's all quite a Mrs now and they'll be bogged down for years to come. They absolutely do that but I would argue that expensive dead wood signings are for the most part, all they have available to them. They would be much better off if they took a more Wenger like approach to transfers and kept the same batch of dead wood and only dipped into the market when a player who could actually improve them comes along but there's gently caress all chance of the fans tolerating that.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:43
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Xabi posted:If only we had a manager who could consistently get us into the Champions League, even into the final a couple of times. It must keep you somewhat hopeful that Ian Ayre, who was part of the team that oversaw Liverpool's drop from the Champions League, who was part of the team who decided to hire Roy Hodgson, and who is highly involved in the much-loved transfer committee continues to be Chief Executive of Liverpool FC.  By the way, I think a lot of the Fat Man's academy reforms have either been reversed or neglected. Blue Star Error posted:They would be much better off if they took a more Wenger like approach to transfers and kept the same batch of dead wood and only dipped into the market when a player who could actually improve them comes along but there's gently caress all chance of the fans tolerating that. This is sadly very true.
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Sep 24, 2015 22:52
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Brony Car posted:
I think this is what saddens me the most. Rafa made so many positive changes to the youth and scouting set up (which Rodgers has benefitted from hugely) and now I feel that's all been undone and we're back to square one again.
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Sep 24, 2015 23:31
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Blue Star Error posted:They absolutely do that but I would argue that expensive dead wood signings are for the most part, all they have available to them. I've always been in favor of us following the Arsenal model as it's actually sustainable.
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Sep 24, 2015 23:35
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Ewar Woowar posted:I think this is what saddens me the most. Rafa made so many positive changes to the youth and scouting set up (which Rodgers has benefitted from hugely) and now I feel that's all been undone and we're back to square one again. Were the scouting changes that good? You signed some loving dross under Benitez too.
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Sep 24, 2015 23:36
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Blue Star Error posted:They absolutely do that but I would argue that expensive dead wood signings are for the most part, all they have available to them. Yeah this is where I was going to take this tbh.
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Sep 24, 2015 23:37
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Brony Car posted:It still maddens me that Liverpool almost hired Van Gaal as a Director of Football to reshape the club into a properly-run outfit and gave that up because Brendan Rodgers did not want that kind of oversight. Really. I don't see a guy who styles himself as a trainer-coach taking that kind of role.
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Sep 24, 2015 23:41
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blue footed boobie posted:This is basically what I was getting at. blue footed boobie posted:Yeah this is where I was going to take this tbh. lol
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Sep 24, 2015 23:45
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Blue Star Error posted:Imo any true student of the game can see that Rodgers has lost the dressing room, he's got no idea where it is. my favourite comment was from a Guardian piece after the 6-0 to Stoke "That wasn't a game, that was a coup!"
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Sep 24, 2015 23:50
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PirateBob posted:Really. I don't see a guy who styles himself as a trainer-coach taking that kind of role. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...nagers-job.html Nevermind. He wanted to be manager after they got rid of Dalglish. EVEN BETTER. Ninpo posted:Were the scouting changes that good? You signed some loving dross under Benitez too. I know this will start the same conversation all over again, but Benitez was much better when he didn't have to bargain shop. Most of the dross were definitely "squad" players too. You have to give him some credit for players like Alonso, Torres, Garcia, Sissoko, and Mascherano. Agger and Skrtel (up until now) were pretty good buys too. His Academy reforms helped Liverpool get off their rear end and get players like Sterling before too much of an English premium kicked in. Flanagan came through the ranks that way too. It helped get more sellable prospects like Suso in the ranks, which was a lot better than the Academy was doing before then. Oh yeah. before Benitez, Houllier had one academy for himself and there was another academy under youth coach Heighway. It was a mess.
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Sep 24, 2015 23:53
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Yes?
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Sep 25, 2015 00:03
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Ninpo posted:Were the scouting changes that good? You signed some loving dross under Benitez too. This is true, on the other hand a lot of Benitez's bad buys were when he had to find squad cover for zero money. When he was actually free to spend the kind of fees that Rodgers is getting to spend five times every summer, he made some pretty good purchases that TyChan already said so I don't have to. vyelkin fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 00:41
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Ninpo posted:Were the scouting changes that good? You signed some loving dross under Benitez too. Vyelkin and TyChan are right. His big money purchases were very good and his gambles on cheaper players were a bit more dubious. The thing with Rafa was that he was pretty tyrannical in the Ferguson kind of mold. He wanted things done his way and wouldn't tolerate deviating from that path. The positives were that there was a unified idea of how to play and long term plans (scouting and youth) and the negatives were the Paco split and him falling out of favour with those above him. It's a shame he wasn't given the freedom that FSG originally gave Dalgliesh and Rodgers as I think he would have really thrived under them.
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Sep 25, 2015 01:34
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Ninpo posted:Were the scouting changes that good? You signed some loving dross under Benitez too. Ninpo posted:Were the scouting changes that good? You signed some loving dross under Benitez too. Vyelkin and TyChan are right. His big money purchases were very good and his gambles on cheaper players were a bit more dubious. The thing with Rafa was that he was pretty tyrannical in the Ferguson kind of mold. He wanted things done his way and wouldn't tolerate deviating from that path. The positives were that there was a unified idea of how to play and long term plans (scouting and youth) and the negatives were the Paco split and him falling out of favour with those above him. It's a shame he wasn't given the freedom that FSG originally gave Dalgliesh and Rodgers as I think he would have really thrived under them.
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Sep 25, 2015 01:36
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its dishonest to pretend youwere saying those things
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Sep 25, 2015 01:57
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Breath Ray posted:its dishonest to pretend youwere saying those things I'm not sure you know what the things you quoted mean, Breath Ray.
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Sep 25, 2015 02:07
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Brony Car posted:Oh yeah. before Benitez, Houllier had one academy for himself and there was another academy under youth coach Heighway. It was a mess. Lol what? I have to know more about this.
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Sep 25, 2015 04:22
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Ewar Woowar posted:Yeah it's this. This is true to a point. However it's not as if you're fifth every year knocking on the door. You've finished seventh, sixth and thanks to Suarez second. Currently you're 13th. E - Also the CL results last year were funny. See also: everything rodgers has ever said
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Sep 25, 2015 08:08
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blue footed boobie posted:I'm not sure you know what the things you quoted mean, Breath Ray. oh I know
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Sep 25, 2015 08:17
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not not luvd posted:This is true to a point. However it's not as if you're fifth every year knocking on the door. You've finished seventh, sixth and thanks to Suarez second. its no surprise sterling wanted to leave when rodgers decided to rest most of the first team away to real madrid to focus on a league match
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Sep 25, 2015 08:26
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not not luvd posted:and thanks to Suarez second. not being in europe and crashing out early of the domestic cups helped massively
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Sep 25, 2015 08:52
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Blue Star Error posted:They absolutely do that but I would argue that expensive dead wood signings are for the most part, all they have available to them. Big teams throwing away their old toys and buying shiny new ones on a whim is probably the biggest factor in why there's so much inconsistency in the Premier League, and why English teams stink up Europe nowadays
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Sep 25, 2015 09:47
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I know it's fun to paint Rodgers out as an inept moron but he played his part in us coming second too. He got the best out of Sturridge (who was fantastic along side Suarez or without him), Coutinho (who had been wildly inconsistent at Inter), and managed to integrate a whole lot of youth successfully (Sterling, Flanagan, Wisdom etc). Regardless, I think he should be let go. There are better options out there and I think the current team needs a firmer, more experienced manager- one that can sort out the mess off the pitch too. Rodgers won't be remembered as a great or even good Liverpool manager but the season before last was the most enjoyable and exciting Liverpool I've seen so I'll always like him for that.
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Sep 25, 2015 11:11
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