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Eimi posted:I thought the Grey Knights were a 21rst Legion and not related to any other chapter at all? Like they were created by Malcador as the Horus Heresy was going badly for the Imperium, using an improved process of making geneseed so that each Grey Knight is basically a mini-Primarch or something. That's what they claim in the 41st millenium, but according to the Horus Heresy books the Grey Knights and the Inquisition got their start as loyalists from the traitor legions and the large number of loyalist Astartes among them, notably a significant contingent of loyalist Death Guard, painted their armor plain grey as they renounced their old loyalties. The loyalist humans and psykers became the original Inquisition.
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Sep 24, 2015 20:13
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Cythereal posted:That's what they claim in the 41st millenium, but according to the Horus Heresy books the Grey Knights and the Inquisition got their start as loyalists from the traitor legions and the large number of loyalist Astartes among them, notably a significant contingent of loyalist Death Guard, painted their armor plain grey as they renounced their old loyalties. The loyalist humans and psykers became the original Inquisition. Huh, not sure if I like that than the first version. I mean in the first version Malcador finds 8 space marine psykers, who are from traitor legions anyway, so it's not like it's a shocking reveal or anything. The reason being there is no greater show of loyalty to the Emperor than turning your back on your Primarch. Like more I think about more I dislike that. Like the Knights are already fanwanky enough as a chapter and having them be the 21rst legion, while adding to said fanwank at least justifies how bullshit they are said to be. Eimi fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 20:21
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They're actually the lost tribe of the Hebrews.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:07
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Space Marines are Mormon then? That actually explains a lot! 
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Sep 24, 2015 21:12
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Cythereal posted:For anyone who's curious, the Blood Ravens aren't the only loyalist descendants of a traitor legion. Red Scorpions are loyalist Emperor's Children, and the Grey Knights are mostly loyalist Death Guard with a sprinkling of other loyalists from traitor Legions. Another chapter with probable but unconfirmed heretical roots like the BRs are the Silver Skulls as likely loyalist Iron Warriors. Instead of pretending they totally don't know who their primarch, you guys they try to pass as slightly oddball ultramarine successors.
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Sep 24, 2015 21:41
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Night10194 posted:And thus to become a walking example of why you never, ever do this. They also steal their enemies! None are safe
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Sep 24, 2015 23:57
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One of the more interesting chapters out there is the Exorcists. They're a successor chapter of the Grey Knights! How does that work? With complete secrecy. But that's pretty much the only thing of theirs that's secret, in comparison to the knights. The other thing is that their recruitment process involves being possessed by a demon and exorcising it on your own, which among other things, apparently makes you invisible to demons. Things they don't keep secret are being massively overstrength (they have 12 companies, the extra two being scouts on account of a massively increased recruitment rate due to the whole exorcism thing), doing pretty much whatever is necessary tactics-wise, their own existence, the fact that their home planet is right in the middle of a forbidden zone, their strong links to the inquisition and their really big fleet.
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Sep 25, 2015 00:07
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Also given that we are talking about GKs and no one has linked Flash Gitz yet, let me introduce you to the Trials of Draigo 
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Sep 25, 2015 00:38
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The key about the self-exorcising thing is that if you can do it once then you can do it again and the second time is much easier because you know what you're doing. Some people simply have sufficiently strong willpower that they can resist Daemonic possession and the recruitment process is supposed to find those people (through the expedient means of shoving a Daemon inside them and seeing if they can push it out or not) because those people are the only ones who are capable of fully withstanding Chaos corruption and thus the only ones who can reliably interact with Daemons without falling to Chaos.
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Sep 25, 2015 00:42
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TYRANIDS!
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Sep 25, 2015 00:49
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Neruz posted:The key about the self-exorcising thing is that if you can do it once then you can do it again and the second time is much easier because you know what you're doing. Some people simply have sufficiently strong willpower that they can resist Daemonic possession and the recruitment process is supposed to find those people (through the expedient means of shoving a Daemon inside them and seeing if they can push it out or not) because those people are the only ones who are capable of fully withstanding Chaos corruption and thus the only ones who can reliably interact with Daemons without falling to Chaos. Also, the fluff at the time was that if possessed and self-exorcised, you became literally invisible to demons.
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Sep 25, 2015 00:51
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NewMars posted:Also, the fluff at the time was that if possessed and self-exorcised, you became literally invisible to demons. That is actually unrelated; Daemons can supposedly sense souls by the sins\corruption within them, only a pure soul with no corruption or sins can self-exorcise so by definition anyone capable of self-exorcism is also hard for Daemons to see. Combine that with a little training and the right kind of knowledge and you upgrade to full on invisibility. It's one of those confusing correlation things that is made clear in some references and not at all clear in others. e: The Exorcists can basically be described as 'Reasonable Grey Knights.' They do all the same basic things that the Grey Knights do, but they do them in an intelligent and effective manner (by Imperium standards at any rate) and they don't have a deep seated unconscious need to slaughter innocent Sisters of Battle 
Neruz fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 01:07
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Another super shady chapter are the Minotaurs, who are basically the High Lords of Terra's personal enforcers. Not even the Inquisition can access their records, or even contact them without the approval of the High Lords (which pisses them the hell off, but it's the loving High Lords so they have to deal with it.) Since they're supported directly by the most powerful people in the Imperium, they have incredible equipment stocks and limitless replacements. The only deploy in chapter strength and almost always fight wars of annihilation.
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Sep 25, 2015 02:38
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Neruz posted:e: The Exorcists can basically be described as 'Reasonable Grey Knights.' They do all the same basic things that the Grey Knights do, but they do them in an intelligent and effective manner (by Imperium standards at any rate) and they don't have a deep seated unconscious need to slaughter innocent Sisters of Battle Usually I read people sassing exorcists for their, uh, unique recruitment methods. Daemon-purging has (or had if the fluff changed) a low success rate and it was also the scout's last rite of passage towards full battle-bro status. Thanks to the burnout rate you end up with a big pile of corpses belonging to otherwise perfectly serviceable marines. Of course if all the progenoids are fully developed and harvested at least your stock of geneseed gets bumped up - as pure daemon hunters the definition of serviceable gets hardened and so it's probably favorable to take your inevitable losses during training than during a battle Then again they are getting compared to the grey knights there so exorcists can almost default to more reasonable
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Sep 25, 2015 04:34
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BlazetheInferno posted:Not actually entirely true - at one point, he does ask, sounding rather confused, "Alien? Can you hear me?" This is not the first time I have heard this. However, I have never experienced it, and I have played the Tau campaign six times, at least. When are you supposed to get it? Randomly on a map? The Chaos Stronghold? Whatever it is, I can't seem to get this line to trigger, nor have I seen a recording of it on the YouTubes. anilEhilated posted:The entire DoW franchise is off 75% on Steam this weekend. I'm not sure how well their versions work but they should at least be patched and so moddable. HECK YES. Been waiting for something like this. I'm gonna pick up DoW2. Also, this LP has been running the Steam versions of Dawn of War, for whatever that's worth.
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Sep 25, 2015 04:50
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Worth noting, Soulstorm updated with an entirely new skirmish map, the Temple of Cyrene. it's a 6 player map and I'm going to give it a test. Also might show off my paint schemes. All three are named after parts of my PnP games because I'm a massive dork like that  
Onmi fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 05:13
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Blind Sally posted:This is not the first time I have heard this. However, I have never experienced it, and I have played the Tau campaign six times, at least. When are you supposed to get it? Randomly on a map? The Chaos Stronghold? Whatever it is, I can't seem to get this line to trigger, nor have I seen a recording of it on the YouTubes. I've never ran into it either. He taunts Aun'el, who definitely can hear him, in the Chaos assault on the Tau stronghold. I have no idea where they get this from.
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Sep 25, 2015 06:15
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It's supposed to be in the second exchange during the Chaos Stronghold assault. I've heard it many times, but now when I go to look, it's not in the youtube compilations. =\
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Sep 25, 2015 06:22
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Blind Sally posted:This is not the first time I have heard this. However, I have never experienced it, and I have played the Tau campaign six times, at least. When are you supposed to get it? Randomly on a map? The Chaos Stronghold? Whatever it is, I can't seem to get this line to trigger, nor have I seen a recording of it on the YouTubes. I seem to remember this line in Soulstorm. Maybe that's what they're thinking of, or maybe there's just a very similar one there too.
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Sep 25, 2015 06:34
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It definitely happens as basically every wiki I look up for it mentions an exchange between Eliphas and O'Kais. In fact here's the moment although I also do not know how to trigger it, largely because I only played Necrons in Dark Crusade/Soulstorm.warhammer-game.narod.ru posted:As Tau Also most of the other attacks on Chaos make a point that Eliphas is doing warp magic to speak into the enemy commander's head. The only other time it goes particularly wrong is with the Necrons where he discovers they have no soul and this horrifies him. The Tau of course have souls they just aren't particularly powerful in the warp, hence Eliphas having a bit of a problem contacting Kais. It's the second interaction I'm guessing, as that seems to be specialised by faction for every stronghold but the opening and closing ones are the same. Perhaps you're missing it because it has specific triggers or just gets lost in the general havoc of combat in this game.
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Sep 25, 2015 06:37
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Simple solution, Blind Sally is going to be doing the mission.
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Sep 25, 2015 06:39
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nice colors, you hardly see that on loyalist sisters still no pink meat or purple, yeah! Lord_Magmar posted:It's the second interaction I'm guessing, as that seems to be specialised by faction for every stronghold but the opening and closing ones are the same. Perhaps you're missing it because it has specific triggers or just gets lost in the general havoc of combat in this game. oh good I wasn't dreaming earlier.
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Sep 25, 2015 06:42
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Eliphas' voice is really a high-pitched squeaky thing. The warp filter is necessary for the Imperial scum not to laugh at him. edit: Actually, might as well ask here. Bought Soulstorm, intending to play a campaign as the Sisters since I love me some arson. Any tips on what units/weapons are effective? anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 08:27
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anilEhilated posted:Eliphas' voice is really a high-pitched squeaky thing. The warp filter is necessary for the Imperial scum not to laugh at him. While not nearly as bad as guardsmen, your basic sisters infantry squadron aren't that great in melee (though the cannoness is a major threat). While they love their flamers, they still aren't good for general damage and are morale breakers. Keep a flamers squadron in front to morale break enemy squads who try to engage in melee, but use bolters for actual damage. Alternately consider keeping the cannoness unattached early on, and using her as a melee sink. The sisters are just hell on enemy morale, but be aware of what is morale immune and try to break their support so they can be properly isolated. Edit: Loose memories from a long while ago! No idea if things have been patched differently since then. Mzbundifund fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 09:35
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I don't who's spreading rumours about the Unknown Primarch being Magnus, when it's perfectly clear which legendary warrior the Blood Ravens are descended from.
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Sep 25, 2015 09:49
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The Lone Badger posted:I don't who's spreading rumours about the Unknown Primarch being Magnus, when it's perfectly clear which legendary warrior the Blood Ravens are descended from. ...I... I think I love you now.
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Sep 25, 2015 10:53
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Lord_Magmar posted:Also most of the other attacks on Chaos make a point that Eliphas is doing warp magic to speak into the enemy commander's head. The only other time it goes particularly wrong is with the Necrons where he discovers they have no soul and this horrifies him. The Tau of course have souls they just aren't particularly powerful in the warp, hence Eliphas having a bit of a problem contacting Kais. The beauty of this part is that this is seconds after he calls them "soulless abominations." He literally goes "I will destroy you soulless abominations... You... You have no soul  " and it makes me giggle every time  He just sounds so simultaneously terrified and confused that his insult turned out to be a statement of fact. That is until later on when the Necron Lord sends something through his telepathy and he pees himself.
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Sep 25, 2015 12:17
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The Lone Badger posted:I don't who's spreading rumours about the Unknown Primarch being Magnus, when it's perfectly clear which legendary warrior the Blood Ravens are descended from. Wait a moment, THE DOG CAN FULTON PEOPLE? This is the best game
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Sep 25, 2015 14:25
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Aumanor posted:Wait a moment, THE DOG CAN FULTON PEOPLE? This is the best game Also thank you for linking that video, TLB, that was hilarious.
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Sep 25, 2015 14:38
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The Lone Badger posted:I don't who's spreading rumours about the Unknown Primarch being Magnus, when it's perfectly clear which legendary warrior the Blood Ravens are descended from. Fool, that's ancient Tau technique they use to recruit Gue'Vesas (Gue'Vesae?)
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Sep 25, 2015 15:59
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anilEhilated posted:Eliphas' voice is really a high-pitched squeaky thing. The warp filter is necessary for the Imperial scum not to laugh at him. Basically I'll give a more detailed rundown. So Sister's flamers are actually better than other factions because they are the same range as your basic bolter. They aren't amazing damage wise, but one squad of them is good. Phosphor grenades are also morale breakers in a pinch. Heavy bolters remain the best on everyone who can carry them however. Seraphim, oh those poor girls. You might want one for their Act of Faith but that's about it. The game just doesn't like them, they do not do as much damage as they should and are pretty much a trap. Celestians I tend to run 3-4 squads of normal sisters and then as many Celestians as I can. They are a really great squad and your only real way to deal with tanks and super heavies so go nuts. Death Cult assassin skip Repentia are decent, unlike their tabletop counterparts. However by the time I get to t3 I've usually already won, so I don't have the infantry pop left to fill them out. They need the charge upgrade. For fun put missionaries in their squad for the healing. Confessor is great get him asap for the army wide damage boost. A key infantry upgrade beyond just more hp/more weapons is giving your superior's inferno pistols because inferno pistols are amazing. For vehicles, all you need to build are METAL BAWKSES. (Seriously). Razorbacks are amazing for whatever reason. Super quick to build, sturdy, good damage, only one pop. Immolaters take too long to make and aren't as powerful as they should be even with meltas. Penitent engines are also amazing if you reach t3. Exorcists...should've been t2 because they are more disruption than damage. Don't hurt to have but yeah. Also don't forget missionaries because you need them for AoF for some reason. (The tradition of making Sisters rely on male characters continues.  )In general I just hold out to t2 unless I can absolutely push in hard, once you get 2-3 Celestians and some razorbacks to tank its go time.
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Sep 25, 2015 17:11
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anilEhilated posted:Eliphas' voice is really a high-pitched squeaky thing. The warp filter is necessary for the Imperial scum not to laugh at him. Okay, instead of talking about Sisters strategy, I'll talk about the Acts of Faith because that's what tripped me up in the early campaign. You'll want to use Faith powers anyhow so this will be helpful. For Faith powers to work, you must: raise your Faith cap (it starts out at 0), bring forth Faith raising units (those are the Canoness, the Seraphims, the Celestians, the Living Saint and Veteran Sisters), research most Faith powers and finally, use characters that can use the Faith powers (the Canoness, the Missionary and the Confessor). It all sounds like a lot of work just to use some secondary abilities but you get minor bonuses along the way, so might as well use them. You raise your Faith cap from 0 by building Holy Icons on your Listening Posts. Each Holy Icons raise the cap by 20 ( a fifth of a bar) until you build five; you can't upgrade your cap past 100. The first ones are cheap (25Req for the first one, +40Req & +25Pow for each further one) and they up your post's health and detection range. Faith is a ressource that goes up naturally, like Req and Pow. You'll raise the most Faith using your Seraphims (jump jet sisters) and Celestians (heavy weapon squads). If you're going Campaign, your Canoness will be immediately available and building a Holy Icon on your first Listening post isn't a bad idea. Using Seraphims needs a lot of practice: their jump jets have more range than any of your weapons and as such, the Seraphims themselves become your first "salvo" into enemy ranks. They're dancers: units with great accuracy on the move and as such require micro managing (the story of the Sisters as a whole) so that they're always moving somewhere and shooting something. Unless you spot some enemy unit with heavy weapons; in that case, jump again on them and engage melee. As for Celestians; I find them mega-fragile in the sense that every time one goes down, you have to reinforce their replacement, then reinforce their heavy weapon. It's a lot of cost per death. Probably the best vehicle/building destroyer unit but still at a disadvantage vs IG turrets and Eldar Scatter laser turrets. Always keep them in the back, never bringing them in until you find armor, and beware pathing issues where a Celestian can't come in because other sisters are in their way. The first unit that'll use faith powers is the Missionary. Lay On Hands only costs 15Faith and doesn't need to be researched. I love attaching them to fragile Celestians except their Bolt Pistol has a slightly longer range then the Celestians' Melta weapons. Again, micro managing is necessary and you should click to where the Celestians should go rather than what they should shoot at. With research, the Missionary learns the Emperor's Touch (damage boost to bolter weapons... and replaces all special weapons such as flamers into Emperor's Touch bolters...) and Divine Retribution (damage shield effect). Both of these abilities have high cost for less impressive results: you deal ton of damage with the Sisters already so I appreciate defensive abilities over offensive ones. In that vein, my absolute favorite power is the Canoness' Blinding Light. It costs 30Faith, doesn't need to be researched and about as powerful as the Necron Lord's Solar Pulse, another fav of mine. Just wrecks ranged units, which is a must for your survival. For everything else, there's fire, and dancing your troops around the melee boys. She can also summon some angels that will absolutly wreck poo poo; but that's more of an end game ultimate attack. The Confessor has some efficient damaging/stunning abilites, but I like him more for his passive damage friendly damage boost and his high damage against Daemon armor. That Confessor makes for a nasty Knarloc Killer. A Squiggoth Smasher. A Daemon Destroyer. Madness... So basically, I jump in with Seraphims, mentally mark any vehicles/buildings for my Celestians, bring everyone else up and either heal my Celestians (as they're my big damage dealers and therefore the ones most likely to call forth enemy fire) or blind everyone with the Canoness and reduce everything to cinders from there. This is all regular Soulstorm BTW, no mods. I think they increased the amount of faith generating units for UA, but I'm not aware of those. Prepare to cuddle your Sisters with attention as they die in an instant and can act real dumb. Also, see what happens if you put a Missionary at melee and have him join a ranged Celestian unit. maybe that'll solve my problem.
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Sep 25, 2015 17:17
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Thanks! I basically wanted to try them out because I played the hell out of DC (and the races contained therein) and Dark Eldar just don't appeal. This is incredibly helpful.
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Sep 25, 2015 17:34
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My thoughts. I hate Sisters with heavy bolters, and am starting to hate Heavy Bolters altogether. Their stationary nature and set-up time means that it's easy for the battle to escape them, at which point your HB sisters will just stand far from battle doing nothing, never pursuing anyone. You have to insert HB units somewhat thick into the action for them to continuously do anything, at which point I'd rather they use Flamers. I like my Death-Cult Assassin very much. Unlike the HB sisters, if you hotkey her to move along your assault units, you'll find she's always into the thick of battle someway or another. The perfect troll unit, and in an army of micro-managing special flowers, she's the unit I least have to think about (unless i'm using her specifically as a spotter). I promise you she will do some damage if working alongside other assault units. BTW, I often attach my Canoness to a sisters squad, especially early on, toggling the unit to assault stance. The problem stems from the fragile status of your melee commander: she needs the meat shield. The whole army could be described as "close ranged glass cannons" (a glass sword?) but putting her with a small unit with flamers means she'll survive, and might even finish off an enemy if they break off the fight as flamers do good damage on the move. As I've said, Seraphims are the hardest unit to master but I fear they are an essential part of the sisters. Remember that they also have Angel Visage, an AoE morale recovery/damage buff. If you find one of your units broken, jump the Seraphims onto them and trigger the ability; kinda like the Commissar's Execute in a sense.
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Sep 25, 2015 18:37
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From my experience sisters are pretty much a high micro army with no end game units worth mentioning. Their end game plan is pretty much spam tanks and sister squads from the barrackses in human waves. Not even the IG need to do this.
Iretep fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 18:40
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Iretep posted:From my experience sisters are pretty much a high micro army with no end game units worth mentioning. Their end game plan is pretty much spam tanks and sister squads from the barrackses in human waves. Not even the IG need to do this. If you get wipped and lose your main army, wave after wave of Repentia is your best option to come back, as they are actually pretty good pound or pound. But yeah the Living Saint is clearly based off 3rd ed Celestine where she was just a tarpit troll who did no damage and just has the gimic of coming back to life. Exorcists won't turn a fight and Penitent Engines are good but not like wtf amazing. Neige posted:My thoughts. I've never really had any problems with HB. But then I've always played with setup heavy armies, Sphess Mehrines or Eldar with tons of Dark Reapers. It is true that usually your non HB Sisters are not firing but the HB does so much damage it's fine. (I've only played again the AI with Soulstorm, when I played with friends SS hadn't come out so it was Dark Crusade and I just played Elfdar, or Space Marines if I didn't want to be hated.) Huh, I've found the Death-Cult insanely fragile, like Harlequin level fragile without the filament wire opness to justify her. Maybe I just need to try using her more? I agree that the Cannoness is a glass cannon, though campaign ameliorates this with war gear. She also starts with 3k hp in campaign. Really wish you could pair her with a missionary so she could get healed. Oh Angelic Visage is essential and I agree, I just don't think you need more than one unit of them, and that's only against armies that can heavily attack your morale. Even then once you get Hailers and the Razorback swarm you just start playing some Church music as a poetic counterpoint to your mafia levels of violence.
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Sep 25, 2015 23:54
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I have yet to extensively try out the sisters in UA. But I know they have quite a few new toys, such a multiple saints and the Archangel. Of course I'm not good enough at DoW to report how they are to begin with.
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Sep 26, 2015 01:56
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 The mod has updated since I last played it and oh my god they actually started importing the DoW2 models this is amazing
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Sep 26, 2015 02:24
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That is really cool, I do wonder though, is it possible to set things up so you have a skirmish or standard level of DoW1 game and not just massive armies? I kind of prefer things skirmish level, but I'd love to mess around with neat changes like that. I know I'm the weirdo who doesn't want things taken to extreme with Titans but yeah.
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Sep 26, 2015 03:25
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Eimi posted:That is really cool, I do wonder though, is it possible to set things up so you have a skirmish or standard level of DoW1 game and not just massive armies? I kind of prefer things skirmish level, but I'd love to mess around with neat changes like that. I know I'm the weirdo who doesn't want things taken to extreme with Titans but yeah. By default it's set to a more skirmish 30 unit level, you can halve unit cap or multiply it via victory conditions also I cannot get a good hold on the Sisters of Battle.
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Sep 26, 2015 03:48
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