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StashAugustine posted:I honestly didn't play Napoleon much and I might be turned off by FOTS but I feel that melee-oriented combat is more fun to play than guns. You can do melee-oriented really well in FoTS though, provided terrain doesn't screw you over. Guns need LoS to fire so if you hide behind a hill with all your swords/spears you can charge the guns just as they crest, before they can fire, and win in melee. Archers are also great in FoTS since they can fire up into forts and out-range everything but maybe the light-infantry variants the AI rarely uses. All of the cav is good too. The only real issues are the traditional buildings slowing down your tech progress--somewhat minor--and very late in the game when the gun units get better at smacking you with rifles. Napoleon used a similar strategy and called it "reverse hill defense" only instead of bunches of samurai waiting on the other side he had cannons and guns.
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Sep 25, 2015 18:59
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Rome 2 is boring and lifeless, and its strategic map is obtuse and mostly irrelevant. Despite this, I still bought attila but I am not that excited by it. What is it about the strategic campaign that is so droll? IDGI. The battles are ok, not the greatest but still.... and Rome 1 was fantastic... I might have a matching number of hours there as I do in S2(1200+; I hate you Steam).
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Sep 25, 2015 19:02
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Decus posted:You can do melee-oriented really well in FoTS though, provided terrain doesn't screw you over. Guns need LoS to fire so if you hide behind a hill with all your swords/spears you can charge the guns just as they crest, before they can fire, and win in melee. Archers are also great in FoTS since they can fire up into forts and out-range everything but maybe the light-infantry variants the AI rarely uses. All of the cav is good too. The only real issues are the traditional buildings slowing down your tech progress--somewhat minor--and very late in the game when the gun units get better at smacking you with rifles. Oh yeah and I did it a few times, its neat and fun. What I meant was that playing a gun army in FOTS is mostly about making the AI march into the kill zone of your armstrong guns and then murdering them with kneel fire before they even get close. Napoleon/Empire battles would obviously be less one-sided affairs.
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Sep 25, 2015 19:03
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Empire: bring more big guns, murder them with shrapnel shot and fire by rank. Still fun. And best naval battles in any TW.
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Sep 25, 2015 19:23
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DiHK posted:Despite this, I still bought attila but I am not that excited by it. I dunno if my feelings are universal, but for me it's really just all the little bits of fluff they trimmed out- the lack of meaningful resources and trade nodes, and the agents being all homogeneous and boring now. They gave me something to plan and build around where there would be tangible rewards at the end- getting gold accuracy arrows etc had a very noticeable effect on how your archers shoot, the agent skills were way more differentiated, stuff like that. I actually way prefer the building management aspect in the new games but the fact that growth has an eventual cap so I can't just strive to make gigantic super cities kind of kills that too. Even in Rome 1/ Medieval 2 silly poo poo like being able to manually place watchtowers and forts gave me a real sense I'd personally crafted my empire rather than just slapped buildings in predefined slots and stuff. Shogun 2's map is also way better. Choke points to plan around, few boring open plains, only one front on the sea in most places so you didn't have to constantly worry about naval invasions from every direction. Playing as a horde in Attila actually tickles the same itch I got from the old games though and I don't really know why.
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Sep 25, 2015 19:54
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I mostly just want the strategic map to be a place where I build dudes and move them on a risk-like board. Screw movement cost and all that nonsense, clarity should be key. Its the battles that matter, not the strategic layer. gently caress agents.
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Sep 25, 2015 19:58
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Did Rome 2 ever bring back the procedurally generated battle maps from Rome 1 and Medieval 2 that were based on where you fought on the Campaign Map? I really missed those in Empire where you would get a thousand fields and one lovely town, or how Shogun 2 just had a handful of maps that threw a rocky hill on one deployment zone or the other, and then the AI would always rush for it regardless of whether they were attacking or defending.
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Sep 25, 2015 20:13
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I mostly just want the strategic map to be a place where I build dudes and move them on a risk-like board. Screw movement cost and all that nonsense, clarity should be key. Its the battles that matter, not the strategic layer. gently caress agents. I mostly agree concerning agents. I'm playing Medieval 2 right now (because it's the only TW that runs nicely on my laptop, for some reason even Rome 1 runs really poorly on the map screen) and dealing with diplomats, princesses, merchants, priests, spies, and assassins is the worst.
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Sep 25, 2015 20:24
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I liked that a lot in M2, but it could lead to some funky stuff in rough places like scotland, where I had to fast forward through an hour of single file infantry running away along these terrible paths. Napoleon seems to have ironed that out a lot but the maps were a lot more boring last I played (as Brits fighting mostly in Northern France). S2's maps were lame and predictable but not quite boring.Koramei posted:I dunno if my feelings are universal... Not exactly but that helped me put my finger on some of the suckiness. Characters across the board are not engaging at all, even with 4 turns a year the skills were not truly exciting. Polotics had way to much effort put into it, and I suspect it will be a cycle or two before politics are good and and characters are interesting again. Attila seems to handle it a bit better with the governors but I'm only 30 or so turns into my first game there so I can't really say. The this or that limit on city buildings is fine for early game but I agree that capping growth creates an arbitrary system of limits that you can overcome but only at great tedium. I like the idea of provinces but I'm still not sure about the execution. I do miss being able to build significant defenses on the map, the encampment doesn't do it for me. The limited modding really fucks it all up for me, especially with the campaign map. SEGA needs to back the gently caress off of that poo poo.
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Sep 25, 2015 20:36
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dogstile posted:I like the revolver general, because I can just park them in any siege battle on the second wall Okay, yeah, it is true that a unit which is at a disadvantage in a field engagement can in fact be quite effective when absolutely every single tactical factor is set up to play to their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. With regard to agents, I feel like Shogun 2 got agents fairly correct in that there are some which you're going to park in armies and forget about, some you're going to park in cities and forget about, and some which spend their time either attached to or scouting ahead of your armies. M2 was certainly peak agent silliness, and while Rome 2 kept the S2 model of hard-limited agents most of which are good at buffing/debuffing things and all of which can be used as scouts in a pinch, the sheer number of nations especially at the start of the game means it's not very far behind at all. I'm cautiously optimistic about the way agents are (supposed to be anyway) handled in the Warhammer game; actually showing up on the tactical map with usable abilities could be pretty loving neat. e: also, having captured a town with Gunsmith capacity, I'm turning out Yugekitai units with 93 base accuracy, looking forward to ruining some general's entire day with a single four-unit volley. And I have a geisha named Kamatari, makes me chuckle every time she levels up. LonsomeSon fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 20:39
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Agents in S2 were fine except after realm divide where every clan in japan would spam them at you constantly and it got annoying as hell
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Sep 25, 2015 20:41
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S2's problem was less agent design like M2 and more near-dead armies being able to burn your poo poo as they retreated. If they're burning my poo poo during the march? That's fine/acceptable and decent design to try to draw players out of their forts. But on the way out/while they're near-dead? Petty. As. gently caress. If somebody were able to make a mod that removed petty AI behavior from both S2 and FotS I'd consider them perfect games since at this point it's about the only thing that annoys me about them outside of online play not letting you mop-up. Which, really, is only annoying because it leads directly to your money/resources burning more often than single player.
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Sep 25, 2015 21:57
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I dunno, if I was on the run I'd probably try to burn as much enemy poo poo as possible, too.
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Sep 25, 2015 22:04
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Gimnbo posted:I dunno, if I was on the run I'd probably try to burn as much enemy poo poo as possible, too. The stances and map features like ambushes are dumb because the computer only ever fucks them up (both in Shogun 2 and in Rome 2). The Shogun 2 army whack a mole is tedious because you have to defeat a stack several times to make them go away / stop raiding, and the whole time they are ruining your province and hiding in woods. It's really pointless.
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Sep 25, 2015 22:15
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Napoleon campaign is best campaign  Rakthar posted:Where's Jeddite when you need him? Skating around the oceans to catch fleets on double-time is the worst thing to happen to naval combat.
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Sep 25, 2015 22:20
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canyoneer posted:Napoleon campaign is best campaign Naval stuff was always a gigantic pain in the rear end. loving pirates in Empire, loving British in Napoleon. Gimnbo posted:I dunno, if I was on the run I'd probably try to burn as much enemy poo poo as possible, too. Agreed. Also, when I run away from a fight, I like to phase through enemy armies and sack their cities.
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Sep 25, 2015 22:59
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:loving British in Napoleon. If the Royal Navy weren't a goddamn pain in the arse then Napoleon failed to some extent. I do kind of hate how the Pirates bloom into massive assholes unchecked in Empire though. THEY HAVE ONE drat ISLAND.
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Sep 25, 2015 23:07
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LonsomeSon posted:Okay, yeah, it is true that a unit which is at a disadvantage in a field engagement can in fact be quite effective when absolutely every single tactical factor is set up to play to their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Well, if you're going to be so sarcastic, I also like them because if you keep them in reserve you can exploit flanks by running them behind enemies and getting 24 shots into the back of a unit and retreating before they know what hit them. I'm always weary about sending the Katana guys as spears are always close by, the the revolver general is fantastic for making a unit rout in just the right way. Sure they're not great on their own, but I have an army. Why is any unit fighting alone?
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Sep 25, 2015 23:40
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StashAugustine posted:Agents in S2 were fine except after realm divide where every clan in japan would spam them at you constantly and it got annoying as hell Yeah but that's really just a sub-issue of realm divide being a lovely mechanic. I mean I get why it exists - because by the time you trigger it you're big enough that everyone else SHOULD be ganging up on you in order to provide any sort of challenge. It's just that rather than combining their forces to actually pose a significant threat, they end up just coming at you from everywhere at once and so it ends up being about swatting down a bunch of mini-raids with a few troops on cleanup duty while you take the rest of the territory one province at a time with your main army.
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Sep 26, 2015 01:22
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:loving British in Napoleon. but i am the british in napoleon 
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Sep 26, 2015 05:26
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Back To 99 posted:but i am the british in napoleon Yeah it's pretty sweet when every other navy is your bitch.
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Sep 26, 2015 05:56
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SeanBeansShako posted:If the Royal Navy weren't a goddamn pain in the arse then Napoleon failed to some extent. not as much as the Maratha Confederacy, who if I forget exist for the first 100 turns are steamrolling through Russia and more than likely attacking my holdings in the Caribbean.
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Sep 26, 2015 11:09
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Yeah the insane Maratha blob is one of the bigger problems of late game ETW. India really needed to be balanced/have a few more factions. Watching them utterly steamroll Russia still is hilarious though.
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Sep 26, 2015 13:37
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Naval stuff was always a gigantic pain in the rear end... loving British Literally stuff Napoleon would have said if he posted on SA  SeanBeansShako posted:Yeah the insane Maratha blob is one of the bigger problems of late game ETW. India really needed to be balanced/have a few more factions. I remember the one real long campaign I did in Empire where as Prussia I had managed to conquer most of continental Europe and when the Marathas declared war I was like "whatever nerds you far as gently caress away I don't care." Except a while later I had big rear end Maratha fleets showing up and invading like what the fuckk 
Gobblecoque fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Sep 26, 2015 |
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Sep 26, 2015 13:40
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SeanBeansShako posted:Watching them utterly steamroll Russia still is hilarious though. On the flip side of the coin, it's pretty great to play as Russia and live out Victorian Russia's wet dreams about conquering India by means of Afghanistan. The best part is that European countries tend not to care as much because it's all so far away!
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Sep 26, 2015 14:03
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One of the best campaigns I ever played in any total war game was with Empire's IS mod where I played as the Persians
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Sep 26, 2015 14:04
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The Rights Of Man as the Ottomans with the accurate uniforms module. I don't need no bayonets to tame North Africa or Eastern Europe.
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Sep 26, 2015 14:14
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SeanBeansShako posted:Yeah the insane Maratha blob is one of the bigger problems of late game ETW. India really needed to be balanced/have a few more factions. are they like vanilla Medieval 2 where if you don't pay attention Poland or Hungary conquer all of eastern Europe?
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Sep 26, 2015 18:25
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Mans posted:are they like vanilla Medieval 2 where if you don't pay attention Poland or Hungary conquer all of eastern Europe? Basically it's like this: The Marathas start to the south of India, while the Mughals start to the north. There are no other factions in India, and only a few OPMs in Central Asia. The Marathas are stronger than the Mughals, and India is pretty rich. So yeah, if you're not paying attention it's not unheard of for a horde of Indians to swarm into Europe by way of Persia.
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Sep 26, 2015 18:30
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Tomn posted:On the flip side of the coin, it's pretty great to play as Russia and live out Victorian Russia's wet dreams about conquering India by means of Afghanistan. The best part is that European countries tend not to care as much because it's all so far away! Unfortunately, if you want to fight against Europeans you have to conquer all of the Ottoman Empire, then all of Persia and India. You have to deal with Sweden early on, but they don't have that many provinces to conquer. Meanwhile, your friend Poland becomes uber-powerful and controls all of Europe except for Paris and Britain. Also your colonial line infantry is better than your domestic line infantry because CA loves to put in racial advantages. Black people and Russians get a bigger charge bonus because they don't understand technology.
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Sep 26, 2015 20:51
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dogstile posted:Well, if you're going to be so sarcastic, I also like them because if you keep them in reserve you can exploit flanks by running them behind enemies and getting 24 shots into the back of a unit and retreating before they know what hit them. I'm always weary about sending the Katana guys as spears are always close by, the the revolver general is fantastic for making a unit rout in just the right way. Sure they're not great on their own, but I have an army. Why is any unit fighting alone? Okay, okay, I thought you were being extremely sarcastic, replying to my point about using Yari Ki to hunt tiny general units which can be obliterated within seconds of the charge connecting by citing an instance which stacks absolutely every factor in favor of a small unit with mediocre range and incredible rate of fire. Apparently you were in earnest, so chill. Also, India was one of my very favorite things about Empire. Playing the Dutch and pouring every scrap of cash you can spare into using Ceylon as a springboard to faceroll Maratha and the Mughals could lead to some hilarious results, including having enough resources to push the British back into their American territories. Pretty sure my most-fun Empire campaign wins all revolved around painting two continents orange.
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Sep 26, 2015 21:02
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Pycckuu posted:Also your colonial line infantry is better than your domestic line infantry because CA loves to put in racial advantages. Black people and Russians get a bigger charge bonus because they don't understand technology. irl the Russians loved the bayonet charge LonsomeSon posted:Okay, okay, I thought you were being extremely sarcastic, replying to my point about using Yari Ki to hunt tiny general units which can be obliterated within seconds of the charge connecting by citing an instance which stacks absolutely every factor in favor of a small unit with mediocre range and incredible rate of fire. Apparently you were in earnest, so chill. What is this butthurt bullshit? Just hide your general better and don't get them charged by cavalry. Gobblecoque posted:Literally stuff Napoleon would have said if he posted on SA The French can eventually fight the British on equal terms, but the other factions can't built ships bigger than 74-gunners. The only way to fight the British is to stack-rush Nelson's fleet and try to autoresolve for captured ships.
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Sep 26, 2015 21:14
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Pycckuu posted:Also your colonial line infantry is better than your domestic line infantry because CA loves to put in racial advantages. Black people and Russians get a bigger charge bonus because they don't understand technology. I'm trying to imagine a Total War game without racial or cultural advantages. It would probably be worse than your posts.
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Sep 26, 2015 21:20
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jfood posted:I'm trying to imagine a Total War game without racial or cultural advantages. It would probably be worse than your posts. 
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Sep 26, 2015 21:21
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:What is this butthurt bullshit? Just hide your general better and don't get them charged by cavalry. ...what? I was discussing using my own Ki to hunt enemy general units, and how I don't feel like 18 dudes with revolvers is an upgrade over 45 dudes with swords, in the scenario where I'm mousetrapping enemy general units.
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Sep 26, 2015 23:34
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LonsomeSon posted:...what? The AI is bad at protecting its general in every gunpowder TW game. But what about dogstile's response to that post made you so angry? Revolver generals are okay, but I don't like to fool around with my generals in FotS. In my first campaign, my daimyo got artillery sniped 10 minutes into a siege.
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Sep 27, 2015 02:47
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:The AI is bad at protecting its general in every gunpowder TW game. But what about dogstile's response to that post made you so angry? LonsomeSon posted:Okay, okay, I thought you [dogstile] were being extremely sarcastic, replying to my point about using Yari Ki to hunt tiny general units which can be obliterated within seconds of the charge connecting by citing an instance which stacks absolutely every factor in favor of a small unit with mediocre range and incredible rate of fire. There appears to be something about the text of my posts which makes them difficult to read? Unless answering (mistakenly perceived) sarcasm with sarcasm is no longer socially acceptable here I really don't see what the problem is here.
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Sep 27, 2015 02:52
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the last page has been way too agressive for a megathread about total war games.
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Sep 27, 2015 03:41
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These 11 guys have seen some poo poo...
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Sep 27, 2015 04:33
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Pycckuu posted:Also your colonial line infantry is better than your domestic line infantry because CA loves to put in racial advantages. Black people and Russians get a bigger charge bonus because they don't understand technology. Hahaha. More like Africans and Slavs are peak physical specimens in things like strength and speed. USA and USSR collectively dominated every event at the Olympics for 50 years straight which cracks me up thinking about trying to enjoy the event as any other poo poo-tier nation in the world during the Cold War. Trust me if you had a horde of slavs charging at you in just about any concievable scenario you would probably think OMG RUN! instead of "how uncivilized."
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Sep 27, 2015 04:40
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