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I am Aiden Pierce, vigilante. I will take the law into my own hands. *Sees a sex auction and calls the cops* THEY'RE DOING BAD THINGS STOP THEM
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Sep 25, 2015 23:44
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I doubt the first responder cops are prepared for all the heavily armored shot gun wielding heavy so chalk that up another Aiden goof
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Sep 25, 2015 23:58
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Quiet Python posted:I HATE when games require you to solve a problem a certain way and then NPCs poo poo on you for doing it that way. It's a cheap "gotcha" that has zero impact because there is no actual choice involved. Do it this way, or turn the game off because nothing's going to happen unless you do things this way...how could you do what you just did, you MONSTER??? One game, Spec Ops: The Line, actually did that right with the "oh poo poo grab that mortar" segment.
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Sep 26, 2015 00:00
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Sinners Sandwich posted:I doubt the first responder cops are prepared for all the heavily armored shot gun wielding heavy so chalk that up another Aiden goof There are dirty cops already there. Also Aiden called and said there's a "shooting" IIRC. No mention of human trafficking or sex slave trade. The dirty cops can just be like "Yo we're here, nothing major, just Longshoreman X doing target practice." Quinn doesn't even have to do anything, hell if anything Quinn just got another bump in how untouchable he looks.
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Sep 26, 2015 00:25
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wiegieman posted:One game, Spec Ops: The Line, actually did that right with the "oh poo poo grab that mortar" segment. Sure, but the mortar segment is more about how distant you are from the killing in most military shooters and how horrible what's happening is when seen up close. Getting it right is the exception and not the rule. More often than not, you get situations where it isn't actually possible to do things the "right" way (like in Watch_Dogs) or the game offers you what looks like a choice but both outcomes are equally bad (like that godawful Army of Two sequel).
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Sep 26, 2015 00:28
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It can work if the game makes it clear that it is the character doing this and not the player in which case it's more of a character moment but that's really hard to do considering most protagonists don't have a character at all.
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Sep 26, 2015 00:57
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Crowetron posted:It's worth noting that in the sex slave auction mission in Saints Row 3, The Boss, a sociopathic narcissistic crime lord, actively frees the kidnapped women and even arms them and leads a giant crazy gun-charge out of the building. Isn't there a throwaway line in there somewhere about how one of the reasons why Zimos is the oldest and most-loved pimp in Steelport is that he was encouraging the prostitutes to unionize? It never struck me that he was forcing anyone to do anything, so giving the "hos" to him was a pretty easy decision.
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Sep 26, 2015 02:06
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Wanderer posted:Isn't there a throwaway line in there somewhere about how one of the reasons why Zimos is the oldest and most-loved pimp in Steelport is that he was encouraging the prostitutes to unionize? It never struck me that he was forcing anyone to do anything, so giving the "hos" to him was a pretty easy decision. I remember Z's whole schtick was basically being as much of a non-exploitative pimp as possible. I'm pretty sure he says at some point he'll help the women you save regardless of whether they decide to work for him or not. That and him having an autotune electrolarynx which I still think is pretty awesome.
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Sep 26, 2015 02:17
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Accordion Man posted:And maybe if you have a high enough reputation of only killing criminals and helping civilians out even the cops start turning a blind eye or just put in a token effort to try and chase you. For me, the rep would be based on not killing criminals. Your Rep goes up the more like Batman you are.
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Sep 26, 2015 02:21
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wins.
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Danaru posted:I remember Z's whole schtick was basically being as much of a non-exploitative pimp as possible. I'm pretty sure he says at some point he'll help the women you save regardless of whether they decide to work for him or not. If they'd stressed that bit a little more, I'd be a lot less skeeved out by him, but like Wanderer said, it's pretty much all throwaway lines.
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Sep 26, 2015 02:23
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Keeshhound posted:If they'd stressed that bit a little more, I'd be a lot less skeeved out by him, but like Wanderer said, it's pretty much all throwaway lines. The issue with Zimos is that his quest line is kind of meh, and The DeWynter sisters don't make compelling villains. Besides, gently caress that noise, it's crazy Lucha Hulk Hogan.
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Sep 26, 2015 02:33
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I've been playing Nier lately, and despite being a very sad and bleak game it still has more humor and moments of warmth than anything [Synonym for Watch_Dogs] has bothered to scrape together so far.
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Sep 26, 2015 07:55
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It really says a lot about how badly the writing in Watch_Dogs was botched when it comes off as less thematically coherent than Saints Row 3, a Frankenstein's Monster of a game awkwardly stitched together from half-finished cutscenes and the inane marketing mandates of a dying publisher.
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Sep 26, 2015 08:18
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Asimo posted:It really says a lot about how badly the writing in Watch_Dogs was botched when it comes off as less thematically coherent than Saints Row 3, a Frankenstein's Monster of a game awkwardly stitched together from half-finished cutscenes and the inane marketing mandates of a dying publisher. It also says a lot that a character who's entire schtick is that he or she is a sociopath maniac has rescued exponentially more people than Aiden Pearce, Vigilante and Hero.
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Sep 26, 2015 08:23
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I've brought up the trailers preceding Watch_Dogs a couple of times now and how they either don't line up with what we got in the actual finished product (trailer Aiden busting up a sex-trafficking ring versus game Aiden just sort of half-assing it) or give hints as to what the original intent behind various plot and story elements might be, and I went back and rewatched the big E3 trailer that got everyone hype for the game initially. And you know something? Even there, in that trailer, Aiden is still kind of a huge rear end in a top hat that ruins everything he touches. He uses his "turn all the traffic lights red" trick to cause a pileup in order to ambush some guy on his shitlist, which in addition to causing a multi-car pileup then results in a gunfight in which several civilians are gunned down...there's a bit where Aiden is using a car for cover while a guy inside is freaking out over his wife being shot, and even though Aiden pulls him from the car and tells him to stay down the fact remains that, y'know, that dude's wife wouldn't have been shot if you didn't decide to use civilian cars as improvised roadblocks. Then a gas station blows up, so there's that too. All so Aiden can grab this one particular dude, be menacing to him for a moment, and shoot him in the head before stealing a car and roaring off. What I'm saying is that the signs were there all along that Aiden Pearce was going to turn out this way.
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Sep 26, 2015 08:38
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Danaru posted:It also says a lot that a character who's entire schtick is that he or she is a sociopath maniac has rescued exponentially more people than Aiden Pearce, Vigilante and Hero.  Keeshhound posted:If they'd stressed that bit a little more, I'd be a lot less skeeved out by him, but like Wanderer said, it's pretty much all throwaway lines.
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Sep 26, 2015 08:41
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Kai Tave posted:I've brought up the trailers preceding Watch_Dogs a couple of times now and how they either don't line up with what we got in the actual finished product (trailer Aiden busting up a sex-trafficking ring versus game Aiden just sort of half-assing it) or give hints as to what the original intent behind various plot and story elements might be, and I went back and rewatched the big E3 trailer that got everyone hype for the game initially. The original plan was that your character was going to be intentionally presented as a horrible human being- the problem was that they didn't fully commit to it with the game's systems and narrative, probably due to either script revisions or internal miscommunication. It's also made less excusable because the underlying gameplay systems are also underdeveloped. Monster Aiden could have been great, but there's too much of the plot, all across the entire narrative of the game, that seems to present Aiden as a hero.
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Sep 26, 2015 09:10
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Discendo Vox posted:The original plan was that your character was going to be intentionally presented as a horrible human being- the problem was that they didn't fully commit to it with the game's systems and narrative, probably due to either script revisions or internal miscommunication. It's also made less excusable because the underlying gameplay systems are also underdeveloped. Monster Aiden could have been great, but there's too much of the plot, all across the entire narrative of the game, that seems to present Aiden as a hero. "Am I a monster?" *has radio playing how the public loves Aiden "The Vigilante" Pearce and are protecting him, the third member of the Boondock Saints*
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Sep 26, 2015 12:14
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Accordion Man posted:And maybe if you have a high enough reputation of only killing criminals and helping civilians out even the cops start turning a blind eye or just put in a token effort to try and chase you. At high enough rep, maybe the cops would even be looking for your help on particularly difficult cases where red tape ties them and paying you under the table? We see some many vigilante stories with that setup.
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Sep 26, 2015 14:30
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wiegieman posted:One game, Spec Ops: The Line, actually did that right with the "oh poo poo grab that mortar" segment. That sequence is a perfect example of "shoot this guy, you're a bad person". It boxes you in on a balcony, won't let you repel down to even try it the hard way and spawns infinite snipers on the roof opposite.
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Sep 26, 2015 15:32
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CheeseThief posted:That sequence is a perfect example of "shoot this guy, you're a bad person". It boxes you in on a balcony, won't let you repel down to even try it the hard way and spawns infinite snipers on the roof opposite. I read somewhere originally there was the option to not use the WP mortar, and playtesters mostly chose to not use it so they developers removed your choice and then told you you're a terrible person for using it.  I know the devs tried to justify it by saying "You did have a choice, you could stop playing the game! (that you paid $60 for)" but that's a horseshit justification. A shame, the game was neat and at least tried to do some interesting things with the ideas it had.
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Sep 26, 2015 18:27
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Spalec posted:I read somewhere originally there was the option to not use the WP mortar, and playtesters mostly chose to not use it so they developers removed your choice and then told you you're a terrible person for using it. From what I recall Spec Ops also originally had an option for the player to turn Walker around right at the very beginning of the game and report the situation to HQ like his buddies suggested he do...the problem was that, again, too many playtesters kept choosing that option and wondering why the game was so short.
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Sep 26, 2015 19:23
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Spalec posted:I read somewhere originally there was the option to not use the WP mortar, and playtesters mostly chose to not use it so they developers removed your choice and then told you you're a terrible person for using it. I did prefer Nier's take on the "You were the villain all along" by, for the initial playthrough, not bringing it up at all, only letting it be vaguely hinted at. And if you stopped plaything there, sure, everything worked out well for you. But if you didn't and did NG+, it simply showed you what the sinister hissing the bosses were saying in battle actually translates to. And then you realize that you're a real son of a bitch. But the difference is Yoko Taro was exploring themes there. in Drakengard he held the belief "Only a psychopath (like Caim) could actually enjoy and do the killing of mass hordes that you do in these action games." but in Nier he had changed his mind, "If you believe in something enough or have a good enough motivation you could end the world." The motivation in Nier? Saving your sick daughter. It is the cause of literally everything in that game, and it works. Because given the new knowledge except for the very end of the game, you'd probably do it all over again (and if you want all the endings, you will, finally leading to you erasing your own existence, which means all of your save files to Nier.)
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Sep 26, 2015 19:28
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I thought Nier's idea was a little more complex than that. You're not the villain, they're just sympathetic. They're still colossal dicks who're screwing over you and yours for their own sakes, even if they have good reasoning. Sure, from their point of view you're the villain, but they're hardly an unbiased opinion.
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Sep 26, 2015 20:06
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Spalec posted:I know the devs tried to justify it by saying "You did have a choice, you could stop playing the game! (that you paid $60 for)" but that's a horseshit justification. For what it's worth (and I think I discovered this earlier in this very thread, in fact) that line was pretty much exclusively the lead writer's, with everyone else focusing on Walker and his choices rather than some nebulous garbage about how you, the player, should feel bad for this story you're watching and occasionally pressing buttons at. In addition, said "lead" writer actually came in after most of the script was written by someone else. So, basically, it's safe to ignore him and anyone else who says you're supposed to feel bad for doing the things Spec Ops makes you do, or that you should quit the game if you want "the good ending".
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Sep 26, 2015 20:07
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HMS Boromir posted:For what it's worth (and I think I discovered this earlier in this very thread, in fact) that line was pretty much exclusively the lead writer's, with everyone else focusing on Walker and his choices rather than some nebulous garbage about how you, the player, should feel bad for this story you're watching and occasionally pressing buttons at. In addition, said "lead" writer actually came in after most of the script was written by someone else. Some goons have unironically defended the whole "You do have a choice, turn off the game!". Its good to know when I figure out unity I can make some easy cash with Cat Simulator where you are a hand that pets a cat, then you hold the cat over a bath tub with sharks inside of it, also the sharks have lasers, and you have a QTE to drop the cat into the bath tub. If you go through with it the screen just goes black and text pops up saying "So how many cats have you killed today?", and if you don't want to drop the cat just turn off the game. It'll retail for $59.99
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Sep 26, 2015 20:12
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Leal posted:Some goons have unironically defended the whole "You do have a choice, turn off the game!". Its good to know when I figure out unity I can make some easy cash with Cat Simulator where you are a hand that pets a cat, then you hold the cat over a bath tub with sharks inside of it, also the sharks have lasers, and you have a QTE to drop the cat into the bath tub. If you go through with it the screen just goes black and text pops up saying "So how many cats have you killed today?", and if you don't want to drop the cat just turn off the game. It'll retail for $59.99 Leave some straw for the poor horses of this world, you monster
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Sep 26, 2015 20:27
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Discendo Vox posted:The original plan was that your character was going to be intentionally presented as a horrible human being- the problem was that they didn't fully commit to it with the game's systems and narrative, probably due to either script revisions or internal miscommunication. It's also made less excusable because the underlying gameplay systems are also underdeveloped. Monster Aiden could have been great, but there's too much of the plot, all across the entire narrative of the game, that seems to present Aiden as a hero. I figured out an easy fix this morning. Aiden doesn't have to be two people: just make a second guy. You've got a black hat hacker who turns vigilante for revenge, so it'd be neat if you balanced him out with a white hat trying to fix the system from outside. Like Clara, but not just there to look pretty.
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Sep 26, 2015 22:07
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There's a guy we have yet to meet who is so close to what I think is the original concept of Aiden I'm flabbergasted they didn't just go with him from the start.
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Sep 26, 2015 22:12
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I kind of hope the game ends like SR1 and Clara kills you with a bomb for the betterment of Chicago.
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Sep 26, 2015 22:20
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PublicOpinion posted:I kind of hope the game ends like SR1 and Clara kills you with a bomb for the betterment of Chicago. That's asking a lot of our committee-designated and designed love interest. Although if there were a WD2 and someone else killed Aiden between games that'd be nice. Jordi would have plenty of reason maybe, or someone close to Quinn/Iraq since we're probably going to have to come to blows with one of them completely coincidentally with finding the person who got Aiden's daughterniece killed.
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Sep 26, 2015 22:44
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I expect either Clara or Aiden's sister to die at some point
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Sep 26, 2015 23:35
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I'm betting both.
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Sep 26, 2015 23:39
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Momomo posted:I'm betting both. This is probably the smart money, but I'd bet Clara dies because of course she will, but sisterwife just gets knocked around or traumatized by Aiden's increasing levels of insane, stupid shittiness.
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Sep 26, 2015 23:42
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I went to Navy Pier for the first time in a great while today and learned the truth of the stained glass museum. One of the galleries is still there, which means it's at least 80% not there. That sucks.
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Sep 27, 2015 00:25
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WFGuy posted:I thought Nier's idea was a little more complex than that. You're not the villain, they're just sympathetic. They're still colossal dicks who're screwing over you and yours for their own sakes, even if they have good reasoning. Sure, from their point of view you're the villain, but they're hardly an unbiased opinion. Given that the main "villain" is the disembodied soul of your character, screwing over his part of the plan to save humanity in his ill-advised attempts to save his version of their daughter, I can see your point. Still, that just plays more into the theme of people screwing up and causing catastrophes all out of good intentions.
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Sep 27, 2015 00:52
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:That's asking a lot of our committee-designated and designed love interest. Although if there were a WD2 and someone else killed Aiden between games that'd be nice. Jordi would have plenty of reason maybe, or someone close to Quinn/Iraq since we're probably going to have to come to blows with one of them completely coincidentally with finding the person who got Aiden's daughterniece killed. Bedbug's grandma finds out what you were going to do to Bedbug, and she teams up with Clara (who is completely disgusted with Aiden at this point) to take down the
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Sep 27, 2015 01:02
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Onmi posted:I did prefer Nier's take on the "You were the villain all along" by, for the initial playthrough, not bringing it up at all, only letting it be vaguely hinted at. And if you stopped plaything there, sure, everything worked out well for you. But if you didn't and did NG+, it simply showed you what the sinister hissing the bosses were saying in battle actually translates to. And then you realize that you're a real son of a bitch. But the difference is Yoko Taro was exploring themes there. in Drakengard he held the belief "Only a psychopath (like Caim) could actually enjoy and do the killing of mass hordes that you do in these action games." but in Nier he had changed his mind, "If you believe in something enough or have a good enough motivation you could end the world." The motivation in Nier? Saving your sick daughter. It is the cause of literally everything in that game, and it works. Because given the new knowledge except for the very end of the game, you'd probably do it all over again (and if you want all the endings, you will, finally leading to you erasing your own existence, which means all of your save files to Nier.)
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Sep 27, 2015 05:20
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Scalding Coffee posted:Shades were messed up from the start. All they had to do was exist and eventually merge with their other half. They instead became sentient, decide to go full violence, and murder everything including their halves. Even their children's behavior were to shoot orbs at you. A number of them combine into giant monsters that may look like images of Hell. Even animals became embodiments of evil through that corruption. Shades started sentient and then lose that through a flaw in the process that made them. The animal turned into a shade, however, didn't lose its mind and tried to remain neutral towards people. Only when its fellows were attacked did the shade decide to attack people.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:30
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Re-watching the MGSIV LPIronicus posted:I love the hand in pockets walk; I wish you could do the entire game like this. 
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Sep 27, 2015 07:03
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