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fozzy fosbourne posted:It would be cool if these games could launch with something a little more aggressive in their first year. Maybe keep the Core Set the same size, but print twice as many cards in the first year as they normally do I understand this, but I also understand wanting some time 'in the wild' as it were. Designers sometimes miss things that become apparent when the tester pool goes from double digits to 5-6 digits. There's a lot of things that I'm sure they wish they could go back and change (Astroscript, Corroder/Datasucker influence, Desperado). Having a bit more time to become familiar with how the game is being played can be very beneficial. Have to imagine that L5R is going to be the last LCG rolled out for a long while, and that has over a dozen years of play experience to learn from.
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Sep 23, 2015 03:32
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fozzy fosbourne posted:It would be cool if these games could launch with something a little more aggressive in their first year. Maybe keep the Core Set the same size, but print twice as many cards in the first year as they normally do I just sort of accept that the first cycle is just an extension of the Core set. For the most part, they more or less just continue the themes of the core and fill in various holes that are needed. Even Netrunner's and Conquest's additional identities were really appreciated, since that single card (and accompanying retinue in Conquest) really helps define a different way to play with the same cards.
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Sep 23, 2015 03:38
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PJOmega posted:I understand this, but I also understand wanting some time 'in the wild' as it were. Designers sometimes miss things that become apparent when the tester pool goes from double digits to 5-6 digits. There's a lot of things that I'm sure they wish they could go back and change (Astroscript, Corroder/Datasucker influence, Desperado). Having a bit more time to become familiar with how the game is being played can be very beneficial. Yeah, the SanSan cycle does seem a lot more interesting than the early cycles of Netrunner. I guess it would be a waste if they printed twice as many cards in the first year only to end up with a bunch of weird tracer cards and expose effects filling up binders. That said, the deluxe boxes seem to be all over the place in quality, with the first usually being considered the best so far. Maybe they could do something like a couple extra deluxe expansions within a game's first year and a half to give it a kick in the pants but still allow for some time for the game to develop a bit. That would be 110 extra cards which is just a generous nudge if we're talking about 1500 cards in a mature game's legal rotation. GrandpaPants posted:I just sort of accept that the first cycle is just an extension of the Core set. For the most part, they more or less just continue the themes of the core and fill in various holes that are needed. Even Netrunner's and Conquest's additional identities were really appreciated, since that single card (and accompanying retinue in Conquest) really helps define a different way to play with the same cards. This is kind of what's bugging me, though. It feels like the first wave of expansions are usually just filling out some gaps in the launch archetypes and not really expanding the depth of the game until much later. These cards basically replace the junk you were running in the core set that didn't fit really fit what you wanted to do but are the least bad candidates available for the second half of your deck. A lot of goodstuff.dec being run. Take AGoT2E for example, a few of the houses seem pretty sparse and won't really have a strong identity until they get 20-30 more cards, much less room to explore within that faction (except a few things that feel sort of cohesive right out of the box, like Baratheon or Criminal back in early Netrunner). E: quote:There's a lot of things that I'm sure they wish they could go back and change (Astroscript, Corroder/Datasucker influence, Desperado) Honestly I think this will always happen and the solution is to rotate the core set, too. They've said they wouldn't but they made a new Core set for X-Wing. I like Magic's approach, and could see something similar working for Netrunner. In two years when they rotate out the first cycle, replace the first Core with a new Core that doesn't include some cards from the original core set and maybe brings back a few cards from the first cycles. People who have the old sets and expansions don't need to purchase anything. Keeping the Anarch programs, astro, desperado, etc the way they are forever is like having evergreen Lightning Bolts and Counterspells in Magic; a lot of stuff will just never get played because it's not as good as these cards and they don't want to print more stuff at that power level fozzy fosbourne fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Sep 23, 2015 |
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Sep 23, 2015 04:52
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I agree that the cores need to rotate, but we'll see. Honestly, with 20 cards per month it's going to be awhile until ANR feels ready for rotation. The x-wing Coreset doesn't supplant the original except for damage deck The current method of coresets helps the early time. 1-ofs for most cards means more diversity, and invested players can go ahead and buy 3x cores.
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Sep 23, 2015 09:08
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I think you might be in the minority when it comes to wanting more cards early on. I just had a couple players quit Doomtown because they couldn't keep up with the meta and that has basically completed an FFG cycle spread over 8 months. Looking at my other players for various games and the Netrunner group, there isn't a lot of discussion about cards beyond 5-6 people in 20 person group. Star Wars and Doomtown have similar ratios. I think for the core audience this is already pushing their limit a bit and any kind of production delay really hurts because you need to keep momentum going and when you have a lull and end up shipping packs back to back, casual players get overwhelmed. I totally agree they should reprint the Core set more often, say every two cycles being removed, and have it just contain cards from the cycles that are going out and original core cards. Heck they could even do errata'd cards and call it an MRP that way you could still keep your Desperado and Datasuckers and just bump the influence.
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Sep 23, 2015 09:26
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Using 2xConquest core sets, you get 7 faction decks by mixing a few neutral cards in, anyone have ideas of how balanced they would be? Also, are there any battle packs from the first cycle considered particularly good, or should I go by what warlord I want from them? Planning on getting the tyranid box when I can.
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Sep 23, 2015 11:02
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Holy poo poo the Tyranids shipped.Solemn Sloth posted:Also, are there any battle packs from the first cycle considered particularly good, or should I go by what warlord I want from them? It's mostly what warlord you want, especially since each pack only has like 2-3 cards per faction. I think the only one that's actually "good" though is the Tau one, but it needs more Ethereal support, I think. Tau don't really get that many good cards, though. Orks get a bunch of good stuff to play with, though, including Snake Bite Thug, which is an auto 3x in most decks.
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Sep 23, 2015 16:39
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GrandpaPants posted:To nobody's real surprise, Call of Cthulhu is dead. Is there a good post-mortem on Call of Cthulhu? I love FFG's mythos stuff, and if CoC is any good, I wouldn't mind slowly buying in over time and adding a new mythos game to my shelf...but I honestly don't know anything about this particular LCG (for reference, I've been actively buying all the Star Wars LCG stuff, and started in on LotR but have had trouble getting people to play it with me)
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Sep 23, 2015 17:36
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PaybackJack posted:I think you might be in the minority when it comes to wanting more cards early on. Yeah, maybe. Could just be the people I play with and the vocal minority I see on the forums I frequent. I just see a lot more people upset during those dry spells in the first year that most of these games have had, and then flittering away to another game (and maybe coming back, like with myself and Netrunner). Most of the people I play with are also veterans of ccgs like Magic, VS, WoW etc where you would frequently get many times more cards in the first year. As I mentioned a Magic Standard cycle drops 1500 cards on you in a year and a half (a lot of these cards are functionally blank for Constructed though, since Limited is a thing, but at the same time if you play both Constructed and Limited it still means you are on a year round feeding frenzy of cards). Pretty sure VS. had that many cards in it's first year. So Netrunner's 800 after 3 years doesn't feel that aggressive to me, but different strokes for different folks, I guess. I dropped off the CCG wagon because of the business model, but definitely not because of the wave of cards. In a similar vein, I've been playing with some more casual people new to Netrunner lately (including my wife) and we've been gradually adding cards to the pool in order of release. It was fun playing with just the Core for a bit (and I'd take that approach again) but when we started going through the cycles we all got sick of Genesis and Spin pretty quick and just warp jumped up to the current meta faster than I anticipated. I'm glad it wasn't just me, because I was starting to die inside a little bit, heh. Again, this might be as much a function of those cycles being a little dull as it is the bigger cardpool being appealing.
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Sep 23, 2015 17:47
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fozzy fosbourne posted:It's interesting that they ended the game at ~1500 cards. That's the high water mark for a M:tG Standard Constructed cycle (1.5 years) and what they projected the card pool would peak at for the FFG LCG 4 year rotation plan. I do expect that in the first year of release we'll get 2 cycles and 2 deluxe boxes. That will put an additional 177 new cards into the card pool, and I think thats where would start to feel more comfortable with the options.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:35
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fozzy fosbourne posted:Honestly I think this will always happen and the solution is to rotate the core set, too. They've said they wouldn't but they made a new Core set for X-Wing. I like Magic's approach, and could see something similar working for Netrunner. In two years when they rotate out the first cycle, replace the first Core with a new Core that doesn't include some cards from the original core set and maybe brings back a few cards from the first cycles. People who have the old sets and expansions don't need to purchase anything. Keeping the Anarch programs, astro, desperado, etc the way they are forever is like having evergreen Lightning Bolts and Counterspells in Magic; a lot of stuff will just never get played because it's not as good as these cards and they don't want to print more stuff at that power level People already bitch every time a new game is released about having to buy two or three core sets, I really can't see reprinting the core set with some adjustments in influence or whatever as a good business choice for FFG. I get where you're coming from, but I don't think it's a practical solution.
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Sep 23, 2015 19:20
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Tyranids are live in stores in Singapore as of ~20 hours ago.
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Sep 23, 2015 20:24
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Tyranids are out here in California as well.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:01
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Conquest chat: so I got 3 of the starter at gencon when the game came out and I loved it. Since then I've found no one to play with and quit. Recently I moved to Cleveland and I may be drumming up some interest so I'm buying everything else now. What is the meta like? Just glancing at cards, it seems like the autarch has potential to kick rear end but it seems like you could do a lot with DE and torture or marines/tau as well.
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Sep 26, 2015 01:37
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Around here for tournament play a lot of Coteaz doing the ranged buff murder cycle, Aunshi doing crazy poo poo with orbital cities and Cato being indom and cost efficient. Kugath also making a comeback for just how hard he is to kill.
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Sep 26, 2015 04:15
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It would be cool if they made a digital version of Call of Cthulhu, now that it wouldn't compete with the card game. They would have to implement AIs, but even if it were just an old school Duels of the Planeswalkers type of game with limited deck building, I would buy that. They could advertise their LCGs in it somehow.
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Sep 26, 2015 23:43
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What are the major archetypes that have been established in Conquest? Like aggro, midrange, control, combo, ramp, tempo or aggro/control, etc, in Magic? What are some example decks?
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Sep 27, 2015 04:25
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fozzy fosbourne posted:What are the major archetypes that have been established in Conquest? Like aggro, midrange, control, combo, ramp, tempo or aggro/control, etc, in Magic? What are some example decks? I'm sitting here genuinely trying to answer this question and I'm having a hard time coming up with reasonable comparisons between the two outside of very generic aggro/control comparisons. But they still aren't great comparisons because it's so dependent on your Warlord and how hard you're focusing on the command struggle in the context of your deck list. I'll try to throw up some example decks later today if no one else does though, at the very least I'll throw up the Ork deck I've been having success with.
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Sep 27, 2015 16:02
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fozzy fosbourne posted:It would be cool if they made a digital version of Call of Cthulhu, now that it wouldn't compete with the card game. They would have to implement AIs, but even if it were just an old school Duels of the Planeswalkers type of game with limited deck building, I would buy that. They could advertise their LCGs in it somehow. The likelihood of them throwing a significant amount of money to digitize a game they just cancelled is somewhere between zero and zero. Edit: besides, there's already OCTGN.
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Sep 27, 2015 19:24
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Why was it cancelled? Was it not doing well or did they just shift resources to better performers?
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Sep 27, 2015 22:27
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As someone who looked into CoC and passed Id say probably barrier of entry to new players. A 1500 card pool is cool, but loving expensive for new players
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Sep 27, 2015 22:46
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MisterShine posted:As someone who looked into CoC and passed Id say probably barrier of entry to new players. A 1500 card pool is cool, but loving expensive for new players Is it worth buying in over time? Buy the base game and maybe the first expansion cycle, play a bunch, then buy the next?
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Sep 27, 2015 23:12
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Everything I've read says to go in an order like: Core Secrets of Arkham Deluxe Terrors of Venice Deluxe Second Core Then either Pick a couple Faction Deluxes for factions you like Get a third Core Get the Order of Silver Twilight Deluxe Keep getting Deluxe boxes Get the Asylum Packs last, and you can cherry pick packs that have cards you really want. The latest story deck is in the Shifting Sands Asylum Pack. From what I've read of the game, it's not revolutionary but it seems to have a pretty wide open design since the resourcing let's you basically build consistent multi-colored magic decks, the different factions each support a few different archetypes, and they weren't erring on the side of caution with power levels or complexity so it feels a bit like an eternal magic format in terms of cards that warp the game and have a lot of text and triggered effects. It seems like it shares a few things with each of Eric Lang's other card game designs, but is the least constrained of all of them in terms of deckbuilding. For example, look how dense the cards in this UK Nationals finalist deck are with text and effects: http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/callofcthulhu/call-of-cthulhu-decks/_/call-of-cthulhu-decks/uk-nationals-2015-finalist-r151 Depending on the player, that might be a big pro or a big con. It seems like it is a turbo Johnny/Timmy game. I sometimes wonder if the theme would do better as a co-op game like LotR, and maybe capture some of the couples crowd that other lovecraft games seem to thrive in.
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Sep 27, 2015 23:28
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Any CoC players looking to get rid of their collection? I live in Taiwan but could give a U.S. Shipping address if you're worried/hate using FedEx.
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Sep 28, 2015 00:47
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jivjov posted:Is it worth buying in over time? Buy the base game and maybe the first expansion cycle, play a bunch, then buy the next? Not if nobody is playing. Which they arent in a fairly lively LCG scene here in Toronto. My point is that I didnt get into CoC because I thought the game was crap, but because it would cost me an arm and a leg and have no players for me. An online version would fix all that nicely and could maybe grow the game back to a second version in a few years if the only online LCG from FFG got popular
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Sep 28, 2015 00:51
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AGoT2E is now shipping  https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/upcoming/
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Sep 28, 2015 15:46
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It took about a week and a half for the Tyranids to ship to stores to ship to me, so maybe they'll start shipping next week?
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Sep 28, 2015 20:11
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GrandpaPants posted:It took about a week and a half for the Tyranids to ship to stores to ship to me, so maybe they'll start shipping next week? Some dude on cardgamedb says multiple stores are saying they will have it on the 6th
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Sep 28, 2015 21:36
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And speaking of AGOT2, the fourth pack in the first cycle has been announced: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/9/28/no-middle-ground/ Glad to finally see some Greyjoy, especially one that boosts and provides some Intrigue. Really solid card, even as just a bicon 3 for 3. Loot is more interesting for emptying the opponent's coffers than for milling, but I guess we'll see if that's actually a viable strategy.
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Sep 29, 2015 01:16
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GrandpaPants posted:And speaking of AGOT2, the fourth pack in the first cycle has been announced: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/9/28/no-middle-ground/ Holy gently caress that art is ugly, I hope this is not indicative of how future packs will look. The core looked okay.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:29
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The plot card is an old worlds champ design and apparently they are using the old bad art for that
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Sep 29, 2015 17:18
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I was curious as to how it changed from the original text, but I can't find it. Much better then the 1.0 LCG version, at least:
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Sep 29, 2015 18:22
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Taran_Wanderer posted:I was curious as to how it changed from the original text, but I can't find it. Much better then the 1.0 LCG version, at least: It kinda reminds me of this restoration. 
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Sep 29, 2015 18:30
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fozzy fosbourne posted:What are the major archetypes that have been established in Conquest? Like aggro, midrange, control, combo, ramp, tempo or aggro/control, etc, in Magic? What are some example decks? The way Conquest works tends to lead to adaptable decks that don't necessarily go all in on one plan being best. In general, we see a wide range of decks that more or less play either command or combat focus depending on the demands of the situation, with varying degrees of tempo. The two odd men out are probably: -Hunt decks (Aun'shi, Coteaz, some Ragnar compositions): Focuses on killing the opponent's warlord or making the threat of killing the warlord severe enough that the opponent cannot compete on key planets. Key cards include combat tricks, Ranged or Ambush units, and cards that let you move your warlord to engage the enemy elsewhere (like Ksi'm'yen Orbital City or Blackmane's Hunt). -Choke decks (Kith, Urien, sometimes Eldorath): Focuses on denying the opponent cards or resources to prevent them from making big plays. Typically plays lots of command and denial-oriented cards. Much of the Dark Eldar cardpool is focused on this, though Eldorath sometimes plays a similar game with Superiority. Kith is especially well-suited for choke decks because her free Khymera tokens get more and more valuable the fewer units there are on the field - that said, recently people have been moving away from "pure choke", with cards like Murder of Razorwings falling out of fashion. There are some other unusual decks (the Ku'gath deck that only plays 13 units, for instance), but hunt and choke are the two main non-standard archetypes right now.
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Oct 1, 2015 20:04
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Tyranids can play a bit of a ramp deck now, although that's probably more out of necessity from their limited card pool. But getting the two cost discounter out early lets you just pile on units that let you eventually just overwhelm
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Oct 1, 2015 21:21
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MisterShine posted:Tyranids can play a bit of a ramp deck now, although that's probably more out of necessity from their limited card pool. But getting the two cost discounter out early lets you just pile on units that let you eventually just overwhelm I was thinking about Digestion Pool while making my deck and was really trying hard to figure out if it was worth it. A lot of it is my own inexperience with how easy it is to infest a planet, but a Limited, conditional cost reducer seemed an iffy play. Are Promethium Mines worth playing with Tyranids, since they lack Rogue Traders and Void Pirates to make up the bulk of their economy and the only 1 drop with command icons they have is the very lackluster Termagant Sentry? Ripper Swarm owns, though. What I'd really like to see more is something that makes putting an Elite unit into play an actual good play. Shrieking Harpy seems like it's a step in the right direction in that it's a super good unit that can likely solo an entire (infested) planet if you have initiative, but it's still really expensive at 6. I realize that they're meant to be late game plays for that final push on a planet, but I just want to let my Timmy loose and play with big fuckoff dudes without thinking that I just put all my eggs in one basket. Edit: Also, can I say how terrifying it is to have an Ambush Platform out? At any point, some unit can get a spike of 3 attack (Ion Rifle), gets to do area effect 2 (Gun Drone) or just gets bigger (Stealth Cadre). I've alpha striked the hell out of a Warlord with an Eager Recruit or Aun Shi Prelate with an Ion Rifle, and it pretty much sucks for them. Here's hoping Tau gets more fun attachments! And probably better units in general... GrandpaPants fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 21:36
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GrandpaPants posted:I was thinking about Digestion Pool while making my deck and was really trying hard to figure out if it was worth it. A lot of it is my own inexperience with how easy it is to infest a planet, but a Limited, conditional cost reducer seemed an iffy play. Are Promethium Mines worth playing with Tyranids, since they lack Rogue Traders and Void Pirates to make up the bulk of their economy and the only 1 drop with command icons they have is the very lackluster Termagant Sentry? Ripper Swarm owns, though. From what little I've played with them since GenCon, I severely underestimated how important getting those planets infested is. Most of the good combat tricks only work on infested planets, so I think most Tyranid decks will want a good focus on infestation, moreso if they're using more of the infestation tricks, like Digestion Pool. I always use Promethium Mines, so I can't comment on how helpful they are to Tyranids specifically. I do think Tyranids don't need as many cheap units for the command struggle because of the Synapse unit. Which one you use will probably be mostly a matter of taste, as murdering their units is just as good as winning command outright. Elite units are awesome! Always play with Elites. I once won a game as Starbane opening with Wailing Wraithfighter, Mobility, and Promethium Mine. I was also pretty happy with this Space Marine deck.
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Oct 1, 2015 22:13
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Yeah I like harpies. So since I already want the planet infested might as well get one for 4. Command is hard with OOE since I'm taking SWP, but I Also am not getting assassinated as hard so that's nice
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Oct 1, 2015 22:29
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Shrieking Harpy is quite good. It doesn't work well at all against other Elites, but against the more typical 2-3 cost combat units it's absolutely fantastic.
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Oct 2, 2015 02:05
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Well it's still flying. If you toss a regen on it they're infuriating. And you should be packing regens for your lurking hormas.
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Oct 2, 2015 09:14
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