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Sometimes the credits work to make you paranoid about when exactly the Skulls are going to show up. I don't think anyone expected them to jump out of the loving truck in Traitor's Caravan.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:06
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So why did Skullface need to know Zero's location so badly if he was just gonna poison/infect him without being there anyway?
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Sep 27, 2015 05:08
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RatHat posted:So why did Skullface need to know Zero's location so badly if he was just gonna poison/infect him without being there anyway? He had to know where to send the parasite. What's odd is that Zero doesn't seem to find something odd about the XO of his defunct black ops unit knowing about his secret New York bunker. Also, I wonder what the full story was behind that pin.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:09
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RatHat posted:So why did Skullface need to know Zero's location so badly if he was just gonna poison/infect him without being there anyway? It kind of made no sense. The beginning of the tape makes it sound like Zero was expecting a package from him. Like they discussed Skullface finding this item for Zero and delivering it. Then as soon as Zero pricks his thumb, he's all like "SOMEONE TALKED HOW DID YOU FIND ME?!" edit: I think that Pin belonged to The Sorrow, and it was The Boss's last memento of him. So it was also a close personal memento of The Boss. It's possible that Zero wanted it himself for sentimental reasons, or he was planning to give it to Big Boss as an olive branch.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:10
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To be fair to the credits, I can't even imagine how much bitching and whining there would be about Traitor's Caravan if, on top of the checkpoint system, there was no indication whatsoever that you would be fighting the Skulls at some point. Also it's a pretty deliberate aesthetic choice meant to give it a TV-show feel and reinforce the way these games combine mimetic and diegetic elements. Obviously it doesn't work for everyone, but it's not just Kojima whacking it to his own name or whatever.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:37
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Yeah but on the other hand most TV shows don't go "and Guest Starring Edward James Olmos as The FBI Agent Who Betrays The Team To The Drug Cartel." I'm with the idea of the credit appearing in the cutscene where they pop up, just to preserve the surprise a bit.
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Sep 27, 2015 06:00
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You know what they should have done? Just credited the mocap and voice actors all the time. That's what TV shows do. And it can be a spoiler if you know which character the actor plays. Then players that payed attention would recognize who plays the Skulls and know, but otherwise you just wouldn't.
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Sep 27, 2015 06:04
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Sure, but these aren't actors. You can't say "Guest Starring _______ as Skull Face." I mean you could use the voice actors, but I think it is worth considering that the decision was a deliberate one. At the very least, it's an indication that Kojima isn't concerned with the element of surprise. It's another way for the series to relocate, rather than break, the fourth wall, which is one of those elements that is sort of unique to video games amongst the other forms of visual media. It's totally fine to dislike them, but they are there for a reason.
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Sep 27, 2015 06:08
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Sure, but these aren't actors. You can't say "Guest Starring _______ as Skull Face." I mean you could use the voice actors, but I think it is worth considering that the decision was a deliberate one. At the very least, it's an indication that Kojima isn't concerned with the element of surprise. It's another way for the series to relocate, rather than break, the fourth wall, which is one of those elements that is sort of unique to video games amongst the other forms of visual media. Okay but either you're trying to make it like a tv show or not. And the game is full of actors, just like TV and movies are. You literally can say "Guest Starring James Horan as Skull Face". yeah I mean obviously they didn't want to do that. But I think it would have been cool. I think you could just say "Guest Starring Jame Horan" and if you were a fan of "this show" you would be like "Ooh that's the guy who plays Skull Face! Skull Face is in this one!"
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Sep 27, 2015 06:17
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Maybe they should have just not had the credits because its loving stupid , jarring, and just interrupts/wastes play time. EDIT: And reading about all the unfinished stuff... I wish it was finished. And I wish I could do more like actually go on the combat deployments. It would be rad to go to contained levels like Ground Zeroes with my men and do rad randomly generated poo poo, even if it got repetitive. And more to do on mother base which is just a big empty useless level for the most part.
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Sep 27, 2015 06:21
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No it's an additional meta level because they're being credited as real people 
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Sep 27, 2015 06:22
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Snak posted:Okay but either you're trying to make it like a tv show or not. And the game is full of actors, just like TV and movies are. You literally can say "Guest Starring James Horan as Skull Face". It's not perfect but I really do like the credits because it lets people know that there are actually people doing all this poo poo. For as much as everyone was like huur kojima just wanted to stick it to them you see plenty of other designers and writers. It's nice to let people shove their name up in big bold letters right along side kojima cause gently caress knows when and if they'll ever get to do it again.
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Sep 27, 2015 06:25
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Speaking of skulls, I tried the Code Talker mission Extreme and went 'gently caress it I'll just sneak past them and extract Code Talker without them noticing.' Except when I got him out they gassed the entire place and now there's hordes of puppet soldiers right outside and I accidentally kicked Code Talker to death trying to fight them off
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Sep 27, 2015 06:30
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SynthOrange posted:Speaking of skulls, I tried the Code Talker mission Extreme and went 'gently caress it I'll just sneak past them and extract Code Talker without them noticing.' Can you fit a tank in the forest?
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Sep 27, 2015 06:43
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Terrain seems too uneven even if I did mow down all the trees.
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Sep 27, 2015 06:45
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SynthOrange posted:No it's an additional meta level because they're being credited as real people You are joking, but that is kind of the effect it is going for. Bear with me here, I am about to sperg a little: quote:Okay but either you're trying to make it like a tv show or not. And the game is full of actors, just like TV and movies are. You literally can say "Guest Starring James Horan as Skull Face". The thing is, it *can* be both, and it is. Because it's one of those things that really only a game can do. As another example, look at Bioshock. That game's reputation has suffered quite a bit in the years since it was released, but the whole "Would You Kindly?" thing is still interesting because it's something that relies on player interactivity to work. Say what you will about the writing, but you flat-out could not replicate that twist in a book of a film. So let's look at MGS and what I mean about relocating the fourth wall. The reason I say "relocate" instead of "break" is because the game is trying to do something very unique with the interaction between the player and the game. A couple of obvious examples are the Naomi neck massage and Psycho Mantis demonstrations from MGS1. A lot of people think of this as "breaking" the fourth wall, but it isn't; breaking the fourth wall involves the flow of diegetic elements into a non-diegetic world - the classical example is an actor turning to address the audience, suddenly reminding them that they are watching a constructed narrative and destroying their sense of immersion. But what the MGS games attempt to do is reverse this and pull non-diegetic elements into the diegetic instead. Plays / shows / movies / books are inherently voyeuristic experiences - games are too, to some degree, but the interactivity is what separates them. So MGS when Mantis "shows off his powers" or Naomi "gives you a massage," the intention isn't to break your suspension of belief - it's to reinforce your immersion. It's moving the fourth wall from in front of you to behind you, and attempting to bridge the gap between your avatar and their world to the player and his / hers. The interesting thing about the MGS series is that it does this while simultaneously reminding you that it is a game. TPP in particular is neat because it adopts one of the most common "invisible" fourth wall breaks from film: lens flare. This is breaking the fourth wall because it is calling attention to the fact that there is a camera there in the first place, the same way dirt / blood on the lens does, but people have no problem internalizing that dissonant element, and even come to expect it as a "proof" of realism. Using the character names in the credits is similar, but it also has a unique twist. Look at, say, a movie with Samuel L. Jackson in it. His character in the movie is going to have their own name and their own life, but you as a viewer still know that it's Samuel L. Jackson. You are probably going to expect him to behave and speak a certain way based on knowledge of his previous roles, and you may or may not be able to put that aside and become immersed in the narrative and his character independent of that knowledge. When TPP puts "Skull Face" on the screen, it's because they are trying to sidestep that baggage. They are simultaneously reminding you that this is a game (not only a game, but one filtered through the lens of television) and telling you that these characters are real. There is no baggage, no sudden reminder that Skull Face is actually just the product of mo-cap and voice acting. You may ask what the point is, and to some degree, it likely is just Kojima playing around with the boundaries of the medium, which is not a bad thing. It's no different from a director experimenting with new camera angles or an author digging into metafiction. On another level though, it helps to reinforce some of the larger themes of the series. This is why MGS2 is such an important game. Part of MGS2 is dealing with the process of technology becoming corrupted and disobeying. When you get the Colonel's AI telling you to turn off the game, and the "Fission Mailed," suddenly the game is breaking the fourth wall - but it is also playing into the concept of the game itself being a recreation / virtual simulation - a game within a game, and so Raiden is experiencing that break in the fourth wall just like the player is. The medium itself seems to become autonomous, to create the feeling that you and your avatar are both losing control. It's very cool. Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 06:52
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I zoned out half the time the opening credits rolled through in my initial playing, so the surprises actually kind of worked for me. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for my shot attention span at times.
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Sep 27, 2015 06:53
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Why did you think I was joking?
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Sep 27, 2015 06:57
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Grizzled Patriarch has the only good posts in this thread
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Sep 27, 2015 06:57
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SynthOrange posted:Why did you think I was joking? Hah, my bad, I just assumed the was sarcastic.
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Sep 27, 2015 06:59
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That was a really good post. MGS2 was my first Metal Gear Solid game, so the fact that my fanatical love for the series was triggered by should tell you how much I like these aspects of the franchise.
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Sep 27, 2015 07:14
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It is good to have the designers front and center in all the levels though. It's really neat to know who worked on each individual mission even if it largely makes no difference to the greater project, and it does counter the whole "Kojima is putting his name on everything" because well he is, but he's putting everybody else's name on everything too. Plus it gives the designers and writers a pretty good demo reel for their portfolio. "Oh, what have I worked on? Lemme show you my missions in Metal Gear Solid 5. See, I'm right there in the credits, right after The SKULLS Parasite Unit!"
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Sep 27, 2015 07:29
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I don't understand how the game is fine with you interrupting a helicopter crash to go off and do side missions and tinker with your base, but you can't abort A Quiet Exit. One of the reason that mission was so rage inducing for me was that I had to call in a rocket launcher every loving death.
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Sep 27, 2015 07:42
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Snak posted:Yeah, I mean, in Snake Eater, you could beat the sniper boss by waiting. Or changing the date on your PS2. Cheesing sniper fights in mgs is not a new thing. Or unintentional. Was there a way to cheese Sniper Wolf back in MGS1? Gameplay was pretty basic in that, so... Dunkey's video where he spoofed the mission credits by putting in his own killed me, though. "Starring Ocelot as Big Boss's Father." "Wait, what? He's his father? That doesn't make any sense." "Also starring: Big Boss Dies and Hideo as Metal Gear X." "This is the worst way to reveal this!" Speedball fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 07:48
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Speedball posted:Was there a way to cheese Sniper Wolf back in MGS1? Gameplay was pretty basic in that, so... Nikita missiles from behind cover.
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Sep 27, 2015 07:48
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Speedball posted:Was there a way to cheese Sniper Wolf back in MGS1? Gameplay was pretty basic in that, so... Not her first fight, but you are totally free to shove Nikita rockets in her face for the second one.
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Sep 27, 2015 07:49
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You can cheese the first fight too, you can position yourself at an angle that lets you hit her without any of her shots hitting you. You have to wait for her to run to the left side of the walkway, so it's pretty much the only cheese tactic that speedrunners don't use, but it does work.
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Sep 27, 2015 07:53
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With Cheat Engine, you can just straight up teleport yourself to a waypoint so they can set it on the goal, teleport and win instantly.
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Sep 27, 2015 07:55
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Smirking_Serpent posted:I don't understand how the game is fine with you interrupting a helicopter crash to go off and do side missions and tinker with your base, but you can't abort A Quiet Exit. One of the reason that mission was so rage inducing for me was that I had to call in a rocket launcher every loving death. It's a real dick move to not even remotely suggest you'll be fighting 14 loving tanks with the lead-in to that mission though.
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Sep 27, 2015 07:59
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acksplode posted:Grizzled Patriarch has the only good posts in this thread This but unironically. TPP is a hugely flawed game, story-wise at least, but GP has made me appreciate the narrative far more than I did originally.
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Sep 27, 2015 08:16
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I wasn't being ironic. All the posts in this thread including mine are middling to bad, except for Grizzled Patriach's, which are good.
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Sep 27, 2015 08:23
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I vehemently disagree. I top out at really bad.
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Sep 27, 2015 08:30
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the worst part about the credits is that it doesn't go STARRING: Running Octopus as PUNISHED "VENOM" SNAKE for whenever you bring in a random dude. gently caress you kojima! Give my boy some screen time!
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Sep 27, 2015 08:34
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gently caress that, we're not giving all those shitbag soldiers SAG cards.
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Sep 27, 2015 08:55
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Snak posted:It kind of made no sense. The beginning of the tape makes it sound like Zero was expecting a package from him. Like they discussed Skullface finding this item for Zero and delivering it. Then as soon as Zero pricks his thumb, he's all like "SOMEONE TALKED HOW DID YOU FIND ME?!" It's probably not the Sorrow's, assuming he's telling the truth Zero says that the pin's owner was lost in Egypt in the early 40s - but the Boss kills the Sorrow at Tselinoyarsk only a couple of years before the events of Snake Eater. I'm honestly surprised that Kojima didn't use this opportunity to hint at the Boss's own mentor.
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Sep 27, 2015 09:06
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I just noticed in the ACC that photos of Quiet and Huey are gone after the story missions are over. I was really looking forward to being able to take my own photos 
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Sep 27, 2015 09:26
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All of us must now compete to surpass Grizzled Patriarch and become...Big Grizzled Patriarch. EDIT: I wonder if the analysis of Big Boss the internet has been doing is leaving out too much of what happens in GZ. It's interesting that the last time we actually ever played as the "legendary" Big Boss, he/we completely and totally fails in his/our objective to such tragic proportions. The Chico/Paz tapes seem even darker now in retrospect, knowing that Camp Omega was really was the end for them. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 09:58
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Grizzled Snake.
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Sep 27, 2015 10:04
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Grapplejack posted:the worst part about the credits is that it doesn't go Diamond Dogs is a non-union PMC.
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Sep 27, 2015 10:50
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Everyone at Diamond Dogs is equal other than DD, who is better than everyone else.
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Sep 27, 2015 10:59
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