Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

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Alligator Horse: Mar 23, 2013

http://www.wsj.com/articles/an-unlikely-debate-prison-vs-harvard-1442616928

quote:

Last year Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, proposed state grants for college classes for inmates, saying that helping them become productive taxpayers would save money long-term. He dropped the plan after attacks from Republican politicians who argued that many law-abiding families struggled to afford college and shouldn�t have pay for convicted criminals to get degrees

The Bard program�s leaders say that out of more than 300 alumni who earned degrees while in custody, less than 2% returned to prison within three years, the standard time frame for measuring recidivism.

In New York state as a whole, by contrast, about 40% of ex-offenders end up back in prison, mostly because of to parole violations, according to the New York Department of Corrections and Community Supervision

Of course some of the disparity in outcomes here could be attributed to the different kinds of people that do and don't take advantage of prison programs like the Bard degree program, but certainly we could actually determine to what extent that skews figures if we, you know, better funded such programs on the basis of existing statistics rather than withholding funds out of spite.

# ? Sep 22, 2015 03:29

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# ? May 30, 2024 15:32

oohhboy: Jun 8, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Dead Reckoning posted:

My man, have you heard of these things called books? Sometimes it can take a person whole days to begin to grasp the complexities of a topic.

My man, those people who could do with that information are likely dead, maimed, working too many extra hours, in jail or lack the resources to use the information to prevent the injustices inflicted upon them.

# ? Sep 22, 2015 03:41

Cole: Nov 24, 2004; DUNSON'D

oohhboy posted:

My man, those people who could do with that information are likely dead, maimed, working too many extra hours, in jail or lack the resources to use the information to prevent the injustices inflicted upon them.

Uhhh.. I thought you were talking about people who watch John Oliver.

# ? Sep 22, 2015 04:13

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

computer parts posted:

I was curious at what point kids should be charged as adults.

Roughly 25. Males as stupid as poo poo until fairly old.

# ? Sep 22, 2015 04:23

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Kalman posted:

The secret of John Oliver is that he's actually not very good at handling complex issues and oversimplifies them in ways that are misleading regarding the actual issues and are typically incredibly frustrating if you actually understand the field he's spending 15 minutes on.

I.e. He's a comedian, not an actual journalist.

This is going to be a problem anytime you try to gear an introduction to a complex field for a general audience. Don't get me started about all how Bill Nye misleads children with his horrible lies of simplified science.

The whole point of democracy is that people who aren't experts in every conceivable field can elect people who are able to devote the time and consult the relevant experts to fix these issues, but that only works if people are aware there's a problem in the first place.

# ? Sep 22, 2015 05:47

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

VitalSigns posted:

This is going to be a problem anytime you try to gear an introduction to a complex field for a general audience. Don't get me started about all how Bill Nye misleads children with his horrible lies of simplified science.

The whole point of democracy is that people who aren't experts in every conceivable field can elect people who are able to devote the time and consult the relevant experts to fix these issues, but that only works if people are aware there's a problem in the first place.

I actually think his other criminal justice episodes were pretty decent. This one was a let down because there are certainly legitimate issues, I think he just missed the mark.

# ? Sep 22, 2015 05:49

Boywhiz88: Sep 11, 2005; floating 26" off da ground. BURR!

Also, watch the documentaries and Frontline episodes highlighted in that episode because they're eye opening and soul loving crushing.

# ? Sep 22, 2015 08:46

Yawgmoft: Nov 15, 2004

Boywhiz88 posted:

Also, watch the documentaries and Frontline episodes highlighted in that episode because they're eye opening and soul loving crushing.

This. I think the one they cited a lot was Gideon's Army, wherein a completely innocent kid was forced to take a plea deal because the DA hosed around and got someone to falsely accuse the guy, and then he had to sit there and listen to a judge rail into him for how terrible he was before getting a maximum sentence when they were hoping for probation. That poor kid was a lot stronger than me because I would have lost it.

# ? Sep 22, 2015 18:27

theCalamity: Oct 23, 2010; Cry Havoc and let slip the Hogs of War

Off-duty cop shot a guy 6 times for no reason (he was drunk) and has been on paid leave for 17 months

# ? Sep 23, 2015 01:45

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

theCalamity posted:

Off-duty cop shot a guy 6 times for no reason (he was drunk) and has been on paid leave for 17 months

But guys, he was drunk, that makes it not a real crime!

quote:

Judge Barry Warhit accepted the plea deal, which calls for Cronin to serve nine years in prison on the two felony counts of attempted murder and two felony counts of first degree assault, as well as one year concurrently on a misdemeanor DWI count.

Related story:Pelham shooting victims speak out on eve of potential plea

Neither Cronin nor his lawyers commented after the court appearance Tuesday. NYPD Lt. John Grimpel said Tuesday afternoon that Cronin remained suspended from the police force.

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/crime/2015/09/22/cronin-nypd-pelham-shooting/72606430/

At least he's facing real prison time, but I wonder how long he'll still be on the payroll of NYPD.

Edit:

Anyone want to defend this line of police questioning/argument:

quote:

OFFICER: Hey, Shalandra, what are these ones?
SUBJECT: I�m HIV positive.
OFFICER: OK, that�s (inaudible) probably something you want to tell me when you get out of the car, OK? If you ever get pulled out for any reason, you want to tell us, OK?
SUBJECT: Alright.
OFFICER: �Cause I want to make sure I put gloves on and all that stuff, OK? What is it?
SUBJECT: [inaudible]
OFFICER: For your HIV? OK? SUBJECT

Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Sep 23, 2015

# ? Sep 23, 2015 04:29

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Trabisnikof posted:

But guys, he was drunk, that makes it not a real crime!

At least he's facing real prison time, but I wonder how long he'll still be on the payroll of NYPD.

He's getting 9 years, hardly not a real crime. Also, in some states the drunk thing can gently caress up the intent required for murder.

Generally, you're fired immedately upon a felony plea.

# ? Sep 23, 2015 05:16

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

nm posted:

He's getting 9 years, hardly not a real crime. Also, in some states the drunk thing can gently caress up the intent required for murder.

Generally, you're fired immedately upon a felony plea.

Yeah, I'm just so used to cases where even ex-cops get off free that actually going to prison is a shock to me.

Also, it seems he was allowed to resign instead of getting fired. Probably faster to be honest.

Someone want to explain how this man's death isn't the responsibility of his jailers?

quote:

David Stojcevski, a 32-year-old resident of Roseville, Michigan, was arrested for failing to pay a $772 fine stemming from careless driving. A court ordered him to spend a month in the Macomb County jail.

Over the next 17 days of his incarceration in a brightly lit cell�where he was denied clothing�he lost 50 pounds, suffered convulsions, and eventually began to hallucinate. He died in agony, from a combination of obvious, untreated drug withdrawal and galling neglect.

Making matters worse (if anything could be worse than that), the entirety of his demise was captured on jail surveillance footage. Indeed, Stojcevski was under self-harm watch�stemming for a profound misdiagnosis of his condition, which was drug addiction, not mental instability�and jail officials were supposed to be watching him constantly. Either their vigilance was inadequate, or they watched and simply didn�t care.
...
On his last day of life, the man refused to touch his food and was too weak to get up from the floor.

At the first, obvious sign of drug withdrawal, Stojcevski should have been given adequate medical treatment. He was not a violent criminal, or a danger to the public. He was a man who hadn�t paid a traffic ticket.

Stojcevski�s family is suing Macomb County. A lawyer for the county told WDIV that the suit �lacks legal merit,� and expects the family to lose when the case goes to trial. Macomb County has no plans to settle, according to the lawyer.

(https://reason.com/blog/2015/09/24/man-jailed-for-traffic-ticket-dies-in-ce)

# ? Sep 25, 2015 18:27

bad news bareback: Jan 16, 2009

Delaware cops shoot a man in a wheelchair that allegedly had a gun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1SqjwaFL70 :nms:

# ? Sep 25, 2015 19:12

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Gropiemon posted:

Delaware cops shoot a man in a wheelchair that allegedly had a gun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1SqjwaFL70

I really wish cops would start shooting white people so something will be done about them.

EDIT: I realize my phrasing is unclear, I meant both "something will be done about cops" and "something will be done about white people"

# ? Sep 25, 2015 19:26

bad news bareback: Jan 16, 2009

Everblight posted:

I really wish cops would start shooting white people so something will be done about them.

They do though. Difference being when a cop shoots a white person it's generally because the white person has exhausted every option the cops have to not shoot people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbxfM-UdKuY

# ? Sep 25, 2015 19:29

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

Every once in a while a cop shoots a white guy and the prosecutor does the same bullshit where they try as hard as they can to not charge. People get more pissed off and the victim doesn't get the "he was no angel" treatment but nothing changes since the system doesn't want to and people have little power over it.

# ? Sep 25, 2015 22:04

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

Gropiemon posted:

Delaware cops shoot a man in a wheelchair that allegedly had a gun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1SqjwaFL70

The cops were called because the guy had already shot himself and lived. The cops were just there to assist in his suicide.
The only way to handle a suicidal person with a gun is to charge them, yelling drop it, then shoot them.

# ? Sep 25, 2015 22:15

Grey Fox: Jan 5, 2004

Everblight posted:

I really wish cops would start shooting white people so something will be done about them.

It's happening, but any coverage is immediately coupled with "WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE NOW, BLACK PEOPLE???" commentary, which tends to preemptively kill any organized effort in the community to take on the trigger-happy cops.

# ? Sep 25, 2015 22:26

Toasticle: Jul 18, 2003; Hay guys, out this Rape

Just wanted to apologize for those last two posts, I ~~Got beat up by a cop~~ smashed my head the night before and had a concussion. Don't clearly remember even posting.

# ? Sep 26, 2015 01:38

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2015/sep/25/tn-police-officer-charged-murdering-infant-son/327105/

A Henry County man has confessed to causing the injuries that killed his 3-month-old son, according to warrants made public in Henry County General Sessions Court Friday morning.
Christopher Warren Page, 28, of 286 Howard Road north of Puryear, has also been fired from his job as a patrolman with the Paris Police Department.
Page was arrested Thursday by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation and charged with first-degree murder and aggravated child abuse.
According to warrants signed by TBI special agents Brandt Holt, Joe Walker and Valerie Troutt, Page "gave a voluntary confession" concerning the charges.
He appeared in court this morning in Henry County, with Carroll County General Sessions Judge Larry Logan serving as judge pro tempore in his case.
Logan set a $500,000 bond for Page.
Page's son, Gunner, was 3 months old when he died earlier this month. The incident began the morning of Sept. 2, when 911 dispatchers received a call from the home.
"The initial call was that he (the child) had stopped breathing," Henry County Sheriff Monte Belew said earlier this month.

# ? Sep 26, 2015 09:18

PostNouveau: Sep 3, 2011; VY till I die; Grimey Drawer

Killing A White Person Is Almost The Only Reason Murderers Ever Receive The Death Penalty

From Louisiana:

quote:

The study, by Frank Baumgartner and Tim Lyman, reveals stark racial disparities in death sentences and executions. Though African Americans make up 72 percent of murder victims in Louisiana, people who kill black men or women constitute only 33 percent of those sentenced to death and only 21 percent of those who are actually executed. White people, by contrast, make up 26 percent of victims but their killers make up 79 percent of people who are executed.

# ? Sep 26, 2015 11:31

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

So despite cops not necessarily being the most accurate shos, turns out there is more to firefights and firearm usage than just shot placement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/28/watch-what-happens-when-regular-people-try-to-use-handguns-in-self-defense/

quote:

Now a new study from researchers at Mount St. Mary's University sheds some light on why people don't use guns in self-defense very often. As it turns out, knowing when and how to apply lethal force in a potentially life-or-death situation is really difficult.

The study was commissioned by the National Gun Victims Action Council, an advocacy group devoted to enacting "sensible gun laws" that "find common ground between legal gun owners and non-gun owners that minimizes gun violence in our culture." The study found that proper training and education are key to successfully using a firearm in self-defense: "carrying a gun in public does not provide self-defense unless the carrier is properly trained and maintains their skill level," the authors wrote in a statement.

They recruited 77 volunteers with varying levels of firearm experience and training, and had each of them participate in simulations of three different scenarios using the firearms training simulator at the Prince George's County Police Department in Maryland. The first scenario involved a carjacking, the second an armed robbery in a convenience store, and the third a case of suspected larceny.

They found that, perhaps unsurprisingly, people without firearms training performed poorly in the scenarios. They didn't take cover. They didn't attempt to issue commands to their assailants. Their trigger fingers were either too itchy -- they shot innocent bystanders or unarmed people, or not itchy enough -- they didn't shoot armed assailants until they were already being shot at.

The researchers released some fascinating video comparing how regular citizens and trained police officers performed in the scenarios. In the carjacking scenario, for instance, the police officer draws his gun, takes cover, and issues verbal commands to the would-be carjacker.

vJ1Ra8

By contrast, here's what one average citizen did:

y3dr27GIF
The civilian just stands there, holding her gun limply at her side. She doesn't begin to raise it until the assailant has already fired his first shot.

# ? Sep 28, 2015 02:40

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Vahakyla posted:

So despite cops not necessarily being the most accurate shos, turns out there is more to firefights and firearm usage than just shot placement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/28/watch-what-happens-when-regular-people-try-to-use-handguns-in-self-defense/

Of course, the worst of all possible situations would be someone who is inadequately trained, such that they have unwarranted confidence in their ability to handle the situation. Perhaps the most important thing that could be done involving police officers and shootings would be limiting the amount of officers who go armed more strictly. Politically untenable at several different levels though.

# ? Sep 28, 2015 02:55

90s Solo Cup: Feb 22, 2011; To understand the cup
He must become the cup

Another case of police incompetence (summary from Jezebel):

quote:

In 2011, two weeks after Hera McLeod gave birth to Prince, her first child, her fianc� Joaquin Rams allegedly raped her younger sister Lara. When Lara went on the record about being raped (filing her report at the encouragement of the police department, despite being extremely unwilling to do so), the police came to the conclusion that she was lying and summarily charged Lara with making a false report to law enforcement. Hera in turn was charged with with obstruction of justice, allegedly for deleting video footage that depicted her sister�s rape.

Lara�s charges were eventually expunged, but not before her reputation was destroyed. She says she still has severe panic attacks whenever she sees a police officer.

But the worst was yet to come.

In the ensuing battle for custody over Prince, Hera and Joaquin�s infant son, it emerged that not only had Joaquin lied about his name, employment history, and age � he was a decade older than he had claimed � but he had also once been a suspect in his ex-girlfriend�s shooting death and a person of interest in his mother�s death, too, although he was never successfully charged in either case. He had been accused of child abuse by his other son, although never convicted, and ran an amateur porn site.

But thanks to the charges against Hera and Lara, Joaquin was able to portray himself as a comparatively fit parent � and the victim of a smear job. The judge granted Joaquin unsupervised visits. Three months later, EMTs found Prince unconscious on the floor of Joaquin�s house. The 15-month-old died the next day. Months later, Joaquin was charged with capital murder.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/the-police-told-her-to-report-her-rape-then-arrested-her-for#.yrO07Zq1NM

And the worst:

quote:

Hera hasn�t spoken to Joaquin since the day her parents told her he raped her sister. But, every year on Prince�s birthday, she sends a letter to the authorities who she holds just as responsible for his death. This year, she included a photo of Prince with his two front teeth in, smiling and sitting on a red truck � with his birth and death dates printed above.

�On July 1st, 2015, I would have turned four,� the card said. �May you always remember how the decisions you make impact the lives of innocent people. I will never forget you. I pray you will never forget about me.�

This year, Kimberly Norton, one of the two officers who charged the McLeod sisters, put the card in a new envelope and mailed it back to Hera unopened. She rewrote her return address in block letters. Not Detective Norton, as Hera had written, but �SGT K. NORTON.� She had been promoted. So had Detective Cavender.

Geez. Amazing how that cop's not looking over her shoulder every single minute of the day. :stonklol:

# ? Sep 28, 2015 09:38

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

She needs to put the photo on the envelope in the future so the cop has to at least look at the consequences of her actions.

# ? Sep 28, 2015 12:30

Grundulum: Feb 28, 2006

Tubesock Holocaust posted:

Another case of police incompetence (summary from Jezebel):
http://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/the-police-told-her-to-report-her-rape-then-arrested-her-for#.yrO07Zq1NM

This seems too Kafkaesque for reality. The younger sister is pressured to report a rape, and then charged with making up a report. Meanwhile, the older sister is charged with obstruction of justice for deleting evidence of a crime that -- according to the police -- didn't happen. It really seems like there's some information that's been omitted from the summary presented.

# ? Sep 28, 2015 15:02

Kalman: Jan 17, 2010

Grundulum posted:

This seems too Kafkaesque for reality. The younger sister is pressured to report a rape, and then charged with making up a report. Meanwhile, the older sister is charged with obstruction of justice for deleting evidence of a crime that -- according to the police -- didn't happen. It really seems like there's some information that's been omitted from the summary presented.

Yeah, there is. Washington Post has a longer article. The key omitted info is that the video existed, was deleted, but was retrievable:

quote:

Rams told police the sex was consensual and he had secretly videotaped it, using the camera that two weeks earlier had recorded the birth of his son. McLeod had taken the camera when she collected her belongings. After first telling police she didn�t have it (she said she feared Rams would post childbirth shots online), she turned it over to them. Rams was shown the camera, and he said the video had been deleted. Rams�s lawyer offered the use of his office and a computer expert to restore the video. Police said the video showed that the sex was consensual. Based primarily on the tape, they concluded that no rape had occurred and charged the sister with making a false report and McLeod with obstruction of justice.

(I doubt the sex was actually consensual, but if you only have a tape of the act and not the coercion, it may not be that easy to see.)

# ? Sep 28, 2015 16:00

Dr Pepper: Feb 4, 2012; Don't like it? well...

Well obviously a cop's job is to arrest people, and by charging the woman and her sister they got two arrests rather then just one! :downs:

# ? Sep 28, 2015 20:35

Hooded Reptile: Aug 31, 2015

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/watch-officers-colleague-beats-handcuffed-prisoner/#H40PR9TlrYbZivzc.16

If there was no video, no one would be held accountable.

# ? Sep 29, 2015 02:58

Lemming: Apr 21, 2008

I guess losing their jobs is better than nothing, but I'm not sure being allowed to get away with a crime committed on video is "accountable."

# ? Sep 29, 2015 03:04

Voyager I: Jun 29, 2012; This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥

Lemming posted:

I guess losing their jobs is better than nothing, but I'm not sure being allowed to get away with a crime committed on video is "accountable."

Can police officers be charged with crimes for failing to uphold their duties? I don't believe this is the case, so termination of employment is probably all that can be done. If nothing else, 'fired with cause' is a hell of a lot more accountability than 'nothing', and if this was a typical outcome for allowing your coworkers to abuse prisoners I imagine it would be much less of a problem.

The police officer who actually struck the blows should definitely face criminal charges in addition to being fired, though..

# ? Sep 29, 2015 07:29

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Voyager I posted:

Can police officers be charged with crimes for failing to uphold their duties? I don't believe this is the case, so termination of employment is probably all that can be done. If nothing else, 'fired with cause' is a hell of a lot more accountability than 'nothing'.

The police officer who actually struck the blows should definitely face criminal charges in addition to being fired, though..

I doubt they reported the crime however. That's against the law in some places.

Or if they took any actions to help conceal the crime, that'd be accessory if they weren't cops.

# ? Sep 29, 2015 07:31

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

PostNouveau posted:

Killing A White Person Is Almost The Only Reason Murderers Ever Receive The Death Penalty

From Louisiana:

I think this is true but misleading. Yes, killing a white person is more likely to result in the death penalty, according to the study, but white males are also disproportionately more likely to receive the death penalty than black males in Louisiana, says the same study.

I'm assuming the reason why the stats come out that way is because white homicide victims are more likely to be killed by white perpetrators, and black homicide victims are more likely to be killed by black perpetrators.

Despite all of America's racial paranoia, murders rarely cross racial lines, because most murders occur between people who know each other, and America is a pretty racially segregated place. If you're black and you get murdered, a black guy is probably the one who is going to do it. If you're white, watch out for white guys.

As far as the deeper reason for the divide, is it because Louisiana values black lives less? So they should execute more black perpetrators of homicide? That'd be an odd conclusion to reach. My theory is that a lot of black homicides are second degree, like stupid beef escalating out of control, where white guys are plotting to kill their bosses and spouses and racking up big first degree rap sheets that result in their execution. But that's just a guess.

BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Sep 29, 2015

# ? Sep 29, 2015 07:45

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Maybe all those lynchings of black people in Louisiana were for the deeper reason that black people are just way more likely to commit acts egregious enough to enrage the town into lynching fever. Why does it always have to be about race?

What is the conclusion anyway, that we should lynch more white people? That's an odd conclusion to reach.

Omi-Polari posted:

Despite all of America's racial paranoia, murders rarely cross racial lines, because most murders occur between people who know each other, and America is a pretty racially segregated place. If you're black and you get murdered, a black guy is probably the one who is going to do it. If you're white, watch out for white guys.

This is a baffling misunderstanding of statistics. The reason you're more likely to be killed by white people if you're white is because you encounter them more, not because they're especially dangerous to you if you're white too. "Watching out for white guys" if you're white doesn't make sense. You'd have as much luck saying "watch out for the first 4 out of every 5 people you meet".

VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Sep 29, 2015

# ? Sep 29, 2015 08:41

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

VitalSigns posted:

The reason you're more likely to be killed by white people if you're white is because you encounter them more, not because they're especially dangerous to you if you're white too.

Omi-Polari posted:

murders rarely cross racial lines, because most murders occur between people who know each other,

???

# ? Sep 29, 2015 09:42

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Well yes my objection doesn't make much sense if you chop out the line I was objecting to, now does it :confused:

# ? Sep 29, 2015 09:59

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

VitalSigns posted:

Well yes my objection doesn't make much sense if you chop out the line I was objecting to, now does it

His reasoning was precisely the same as yours. At most it's a difference in framing.

# ? Sep 29, 2015 10:04

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Oh okay well if that's how you read it then I guess the misunderstanding was on my end, whoops.

# ? Sep 29, 2015 10:08

TROIKA CURES GREEK: Jun 30, 2015; by R. Guyovich

Omi-Polari posted:

I think this is true but misleading. Yes, killing a white person is more likely to result in the death penalty, according to the study, but white males are also disproportionately more likely to receive the death penalty than black males in Louisiana, says the same study.

I'm assuming the reason why the stats come out that way is because white homicide victims are more likely to be killed by white perpetrators, and black homicide victims are more likely to be killed by black perpetrators.

Despite all of America's racial paranoia, murders rarely cross racial lines, because most murders occur between people who know each other, and America is a pretty racially segregated place. If you're black and you get murdered, a black guy is probably the one who is going to do it. If you're white, watch out for white guys.

As far as the deeper reason for the divide, is it because Louisiana values black lives less? So they should execute more black perpetrators of homicide? That'd be an odd conclusion to reach. My theory is that a lot of black homicides are second degree, like stupid beef escalating out of control, where white guys are plotting to kill their bosses and spouses and racking up big first degree rap sheets that result in their execution. But that's just a guess.

It's actually an example of simpsons paradox, the key is that the race of the victim (rather than race of the suspect) is by far the biggest predictor of a death penalty being given. Also you will find similar statistics in a lot of places, I remember seeing basically the same numbers for florida in the 90s-00s

e: that is your first paragraph is incorrect because of simpsons paradox. Once you control for victim race, black people are disproportionately more likely to receive the death penalty.

TROIKA CURES GREEK fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Sep 29, 2015

# ? Sep 29, 2015 10:38

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# ? May 30, 2024 15:32

Hooded Reptile: Aug 31, 2015

http://nypost.com/2015/09/29/nypd-fires-semen-slinging-sergeant/

Iscenko, who also faces sex-abuse charges, will keep his pension.

Same old same.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

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