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ImpAtom posted:Yes, the fulfilling story of "Big Boss finds some people and they blow up on the way home." Yes, if we're reducing things to one sentence summaries then GZ joins the pantheon of MGS stories alongside "Snake comes out of retirement and kills his clone-twin", "Raiden learns to be his own man", and "Naked Snake kills his mentor and becomes Big Boss". GZ shows the destruction of MSF and confronts Big Boss with the evil of Cipher. He goes into the story nonchalant about what might happening to Paz and leaves with some understanding of the horror of Camp Omega, enough to mourn Paz when she sacrifices herself even after her betrayal in PW, and then witnesses his entire world burn down in front of his eyes at the hands of the same monster who killed Paz. In an ideal world, his character arc would have continued into TPP as he was consumed by revenge to destroy Cipher like all the trailers and the Moby Dick theme suggested but that didn't happen so oh well. As it stands, he develops more as a character in his fifteen minutes of cutscenes in GZ than he does in the entirety of TPP, where his entire character development (if you can call it that) is relegated to a handful of tapes and a blurb in the credits. And while we're on the subject, here's a good post on GZ's story from the last thread. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 02:34
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SynthOrange posted:What're people's favourite locations then? The heavily guarded outpost in Africa that looks straight out of Rambo II.
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Sep 29, 2015 02:41
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I honestly hate the airport. it's too big, and too many of the buildings are just pointless. 90% of buildings never have any enemies inside them. The "main" building of the airport is the only one that does. it doesn't even have a cool control tower like the one in GZ, it's just generic box buildings, and go figure snipers on top of tallest ones because that's where they go. Easily my least favorite area.
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Sep 29, 2015 02:48
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ironically i just had one of the guards who salute you when you land at MB tell me, "It doesn't matter who you are, Boss." which is hilarious.
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Sep 29, 2015 02:59
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Snak posted:
Snak posted:GZ lol.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:00
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Snak posted:Yes, the game being less balanced and the challenges being easier to bypass is exactly what makes it feel less polished. Having less options isn't the same as balance. GZ has insanely few options compared to even regular Metal Gear games. If you want to replicate this just don't actually upgrade your character in TPP. In It For The Tank posted:GZ shows the destruction of MSF and confronts Big Boss with the evil of Cipher. He goes into the story nonchalant about what might happening to Paz and leaves with some understanding of the horror of Camp Omega, enough to mourn Paz when she sacrifices herself even after her betrayal in PW No he doesn't. He gets blown up and ends in a coma. He has literally no time to express of the things you claim because he is exploded as soon as he leads Camp Omega and never revists it. There are some things in TPP which might address that but you're claiming GZ stands better on its own. The bulk of your complaints seem to be that this isn't the story of Big Boss's fall, which is fair, but also doesn't really work with the 'self-contained story' argument. If it wasn't the game you wanted that is fine but it's a real stretch to claim GZ was a self-contained story and not the prologue to a story. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 03:12
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Has this been posted already? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-SjXR1gLA4
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Sep 29, 2015 03:20
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someone needs to swap ddog or dhorse with a bear.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:24
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Snak posted:I honestly hate the airport. What always pissed me off about the airport – I don't know if there was something I'm missing – but that it was weirdly hard to exit. Like all the walls were covered in barbed wire and you'd have to run around the whole thing looking for a door with a lock to pick. It was a weird contrast to the rest of the game, where you can generally leave an area in twenty different directions.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:28
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Smirking_Serpent posted:What always pissed me off about the airport – I don't know if there was something I'm missing – but that it was weirdly hard to exit. Like all the walls were covered in barbed wire and you'd have to run around the whole thing looking for a door with a lock to pick. It was a weird contrast to the rest of the game, where you can generally leave an area in twenty different directions. There are a ton of different exits. There are multiple doors, contains you can fulton, walls you can climb over and the front gate. There's also some holes you can crawl through IIRC.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:29
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Always exit riding on a container.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:31
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SynthOrange posted:Always exit riding on a container. or blasting dudes with pequods chain gun while "gently caress tha police" blasts through the helicopter speakers.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:33
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Romes128 posted:someone needs to swap dhorse with Huey and replace horse noises with "IT WASN'T MY FAULT!". Fixed.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:35
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Castor Poe posted:Fixed. Why would anyone want to see or hear Huey more than they have to? I would like to see some model swaps for assassination targets with Huey. That would be pretty great.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:36
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Romes128 posted:or blasting dudes with pequods chain gun while "gently caress tha police" blasts through the helicopter speakers. I found a new way to enter. Pequod screaming 'Mayday mayday! Cannot maintain altitude!' then Big Boss walking out of the fireball. Works fine with the heavy armor. 
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Sep 29, 2015 03:36
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Snak posted:Why would anyone want to see or hear Huey more than they have to? swap out random guards for huey and make him do his little girl cry when he dies.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:39
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Kiziba Camp seems underrepresented in the best set piece chat, maybe because its just a source of frustration for broken scripting even though it's a cool area. The Afghan set pieces stick out more because by the time I made it to Africa I was well into internalizing all the dumb stealth tricks in this game and not chewing on the scenery as much so while I can attribute cool stories to just about everything named in Afghanistan, I really only have fond memories of the first African town, the oil refinery, Kiziba Camp, and the mine. The mine's another really cool one that might be soured by finicky kid AI.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:40
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Code Talker's mansion is great.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:42
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It's pretty neat. Also I found in Extreme mode what happens if you dont take out the Skulls before getting there. Hint: They didnt give up.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:45
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ImpAtom posted:No he doesn't. He gets blown up and ends in a coma. He has literally no time to express of the things you claim because he is exploded as soon as he leads Camp Omega and never revists it. There are some things in TPP which might address that but you're claiming GZ stands better on its own. He absolutely does. He goes from wanting to leave Paz to die in Camp Omega to screaming NOOOOO when she sacrifices herself. Even discounting that significant contrast, the big claim was that Keifer was hired because his body langauge and expressions could tell a story without words and, in GZ, he was definitely communicating through his actions a change of heart about everything. quote:The bulk of your complaints seem to be that this isn't the story of Big Boss's fall, which is fair, but also doesn't really work with the 'self-contained story' argument. I didn't say self-contained, I said fulfilling. Only MGS3 is truly self-contained because it is chronologically first, even MGS1 draws heavily on the MSX game. It is fulfilling in the sense that it tells a whole story with a clear beginning and resolution and felt complete. It's a short story but when it ended I wasn't left thinking that there was something missing. It told exactly the story it wanted to tell, whereas I don't get the same feeling from TPP, which as we all know is incomplete but even accounting for that doesn't seem to have a clear purpose about what story it was trying to tell (Race?). In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 03:50
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yeah i like the bases that have a vertical element to them. the one where you rescue miller from stands out as well as the mansion. there's just something fun about parkouring out of enemies sight.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:52
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I'm sad we didn't get a head option to smear ashes on our face towards the end of the game. Does anybody have a gif of Quiet stabbing that dude in the dick? I think that's up there with Raiden chopping the Ray in half in my favorite metal gear moments.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:52
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In It For The Tank posted:I mean it is self-contained in the sense that it tells a whole story with a clear beginning and resolution and felt complete. It doesn't have a resolution though and it absolutely doesn't feel complete. Everything involving Skullface is entirely unresolved. Most of the major characters are unresolved. The themes of the story are unresolved because the protagonist is put into a coma and we don't know how he resolves things. We didn't even know Chico's fate until TPP despite him being half the story. Like this is not even a case of 'different strokes.' GZ intentionally leads a whole lot of plot threads open and unresolved. Most of the major characters get no resolution at all. Trying to claim it has a clear resolution is ignoring all the places it has more open plot threads than TPP does. It does what it is intending to do because what it is intending to do is set up the villain and status quo for the following game. In It For The Tank posted:I wasn't left thinking that there was something missing You weren't thinking that because you knew a sequel was coming. In It For The Tank posted:I don't get the same feeling from TPP, which as we all know is incomplete but even accounting for that doesn't seem to have a clear purpose about what story it was trying to tell (Race?). TPP has a pretty clear and concise storyline about revenge and what it does to a person. There are things that muddle that but it isn't at all subtle about its major theme being revenge. Even in Chapter 2 it basically is three different character plots boiling down to that, each of which comes to a resolution. (Eli's, unfortunately, only in the Youtube video.) The Big Boss stuff is basically the only stuff that lingers unaddressed. Taken on its own merits (and giving it the benefit of Eli's video) it resolves its plotlines and comes to both a story and a thematic conclusion. It's just not the big Metal Gear finale people expected like MGS4 was. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 03:54
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I still can't believe nobody picked up on the most obvious clue that Venom wasn't Big Boss. If you played as Big Boss in Phantom pain, you'd eat the animals you tranq, not rescue them.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:54
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So are there any scenes that play out differently other than the ones in White Mamba? Like Snake will talk Afrikaans or whichever when approaching Eli if you have the translator, and then the scene if you defeat him in the throne area
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Sep 29, 2015 03:54
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Deki posted:I still can't believe nobody picked up on the most obvious clue that Venom wasn't Big Boss. If you played as Big Boss in Phantom pain, you'd eat the animals you tranq, not rescue them. I swear Ocelot tells you a few times about the animals you scan that they're not good eating. But, haw, you're right.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:55
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I like to think SNATCHER never happens in MGSland because Modnar ends up sterile with the rest of DD so can't have his idiot fucker son gently caress up the whole world.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:57
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Deki posted:I still can't believe nobody picked up on the most obvious clue that Venom wasn't Big Boss. If you played as Big Boss in Phantom pain, you'd eat the animals you tranq, not rescue them. Big Boss turn over new leaf after Snake Eater.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:58
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Deki posted:I still can't believe nobody picked up on the most obvious clue that Venom wasn't Big Boss. If you played as Big Boss in Phantom pain, you'd eat the animals you tranq, not rescue them. The most obvious clue is that Ocelot isn't in love with you anymore
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Sep 29, 2015 03:59
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In It For The Tank posted:He absolutely does. He goes from wanting to leave Paz to die in Camp Omega to screaming NOOOOO when she sacrifices herself. Even discounting that significant contrast, the big claim was that Keifer was hired because his body langauge and expressions could tell a story without words and, in GZ, he was definitely communicating through his actions a change of heart about everything. gz is literally prologue. in no way, shape, or form is it a self contained story. it ends with the main characters base being destroyed by an unknown force for unknown reasons. there's no resolution and it isn't complete. boss has no idea who skull face is or his motives. it's like reading a book a quarter of the way through then putting it down like, "yep, that'll do it."
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Sep 29, 2015 03:59
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This is downright eerie.
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Sep 29, 2015 04:00
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Ekusukariba posted:The most obvious clue is that Ocelot isn't in love with you anymore
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Sep 29, 2015 04:03
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ImpAtom posted:It doesn't have a resolution though and it absolutely doesn't feel complete. Everything involving Skullface is entirely unresolved. Most of the major characters are unresolved. The themes of the story are unresolved because the protagonist is put into a coma and we don't know how he resolves things. We didn't even know Chico's fate until TPP despite him being half the story. Note for posterity: My edit came to late but I notice I didn't say self-contained in the first place, I said fulfilling. I guess I didn't mix definitions and shame on me for getting pulled into defending something I didn't say. Anyway, the story resolves with the destruction of Big Boss' entire world. The story it wanted to tell was how Big Boss was brought down from his position of power in PW to struggling on the floor after awakwening from a coma and in that instance it was successful. It left plot threads open for TPP becuse it wanted/had to, whereas TPP's open threads represent a failure to accomplish its stated intention to serve as the"Missing Link" to bridge the past and present sagas of the MGS story. It's two different situations. I do not contest that GZ serves as a bridge between PW and TPP. I say it was one and that it successful did everything it needed to be one. TPP, by contrast, did not. Thus, the dissatisfaction. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 04:06
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zedprime posted:How would you know, he's so busy torturing new recruits the only way he's found to interact with Big Boss is to hook a cassette player to the radio system that tells him about helicopters and snipers. if ocelot cared he would have made venom snake a mixtape. he probably made the real big boss a mixtape.
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Sep 29, 2015 04:06
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You can't tell because of the camera, but during the "Quiet and Venom play like toddlers in the rain" cutscene - in addition to Code Talker wondering what the gently caress is wrong with bilagáana - Kaz is looking on in disgust before turning around and muttering about revenge, Huey is cheering them on while wearing a homemade Big Boss T-shirt (his nose is also covered in poo poo), and Ocelot...Ocelot is just watching with binoculars, the rain hiding his single tear as he wonders if he could have that with the real John.
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Sep 29, 2015 04:07
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In It For The Tank posted:Note for posterity: My edit came to late but I notice I didn't say self-contained in the first place, I said fulfilling. I guess I didn't mix definitions and shame on me for getting pulled into defending something I didn't say. You really feel like a plot that doesn't resolve the major villain, most of the side characters or even the protagonist's own resolution to major events is fulfilling? Regardless, you're even saying by your own admission you're not judging the story on their own merits but on what you think they should be. If TPP was what you asked it would effectively be MGS4 again which nobody wanted and which was a tremendously unsatisfying game despite answering every question and closing as many holes as it could. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 04:07
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Snak posted:I would like to see some model swaps for assassination targets with Huey. That would be pretty great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C3EKnfyNfo
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Sep 29, 2015 04:08
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zedprime posted:How would you know, he's so busy torturing new recruits the only way he's found to interact with Big Boss is to hook a cassette player to the radio system that tells him about helicopters and snipers. In one of the Quiet cutscenes when he mentions that maybe she's fallen for you and he says that "I used to be that way once", thats why he avoids you, he's just not that into you anymore
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Sep 29, 2015 04:10
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Ekusukariba posted:In one of the Quiet cutscenes when he mentions that maybe she's fallen for you and he says that "I used to be that way once", thats why he avoids you, he's just not that into you anymore This is the biggest tell about the truth; Ocelot, as shown by MGS4, will never stop wanting Big Boss to gently caress him.
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Sep 29, 2015 04:11
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In It For The Tank posted:Note for posterity: My edit came to late but I notice I didn't say self-contained in the first place, I said fulfilling. I guess I didn't mix definitions and shame on me for getting pulled into defending something I didn't say. GZ ends with paz blowing up and the helicopter crashing, not bb awakening from a coma.
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Sep 29, 2015 04:11
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