|
Funky Valentine posted:Code Talker's mansion is great. want to live in that mansion The Repo Man posted:Has this been posted already? puppy model swap is pretty good 
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 04:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 18:36 |
|
|
ImpAtom posted:You really feel like a plot that doesn't resolve the major villain, most of the side characters or even the protagonist's own resolution to major events is fulfilling? Like most second entries in trilogies which end with the protagonists in peril and the villain triumphant? Yeah. The work itself can be fulfilling even if it relies on the narrative of what comes before and what comes after. quote:Regardless, you're even saying by your own admission you're not judging the story on their own merits but on what you think they should be. If TPP was what you asked it would effectively be MGS4 again which nobody wanted and which was a tremendously unsatisfying game despite answering every question and closing as many holes as it could. I never said anything like that. The game advertised itself as the missing link. But it can link past and present without turning into MGS4. Moreoever, my point has always been that GZ told a more satisfying story than TPP. Evidently, if I like GZ, getting the answer to every single question isn't my only criteria for good story. TPP suffers because the stuff you describe is there but isn't nearly as focused or coherent (or completed) as in GZ. Romes128 posted:GZ ends with paz blowing up and the helicopter crashing, not bb awakenning from a coma. I know, I said GZ bridges end of PW and beginning of TPP by telling us how Big Boss (actually Venom) woke up in the hospital nine years later.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 04:27
|
|
|
In It For The Tank posted:Like most second entries in trilogies which end with the protagonists in peril and the villain triumphant? Yeah. The work itself can be fulfilling even if it relies on the narrative of what comes before and what comes after. Except it doesn't even hit that level. Using the "second part of a triology" example ignores that even those resolve plotlines more completely. (Unless they're bad films!) In It For The Tank posted:I never said anything like that. The game advertised itself as the missing link. But it can link past and present without turning into MGS4. Moreoever, my point has always been that GZ told a more satisfying story than TPP. Evidently, if I like GZ, getting the answer to every single question isn't my only criteria for good story. TPP suffers because the stuff you describe is there but isn't nearly as focused or coherent (or completed) as in GZ. Except TPP is a complete story, barring the Eli cutscene. It just isn't a Big Boss story. Everything it brings up (again, barring the Eli cutscene) is resolved. The things it doesn't resolve are larger Metal Gear canon questions.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 04:33
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Except TPP is a complete story, barring the Eli cutscene. It just isn't a Big Boss story. Everything it brings up (again, barring the Eli cutscene) is resolved. The things it doesn't resolve are larger Metal Gear canon questions. Whose story is it?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 04:36
|
|
|
In It For The Tank posted:Moreoever, my point has always been that GZ told a more satisfying story than TPP. Evidently, if I like GZ, getting the answer to every single question isn't my only criteria for good story. TPP suffers because the stuff you describe is there but isn't nearly as focused or coherent (or completed) as in GZ. In GZ nobody knows who skull face is, nobody knows why he attacked mother base, none of the main characters know anything about him or cipher, we don't know what happens to any of the main characters, we are left in a cliffhanger in regards to basically everything. yep, satisfying story. In It For The Tank posted:
you can only say that because you know big boss wakes up from a coma in TPP. when GZ came out and we didn't know anything about TPP, you couldn't say it bridges PW to anything because absolutely nothing is resolved at the end of GZ.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 04:40
|
|
|
GZ is not a complete story. It is literally chapter 1 or the prologue of mgsv. It was just ripped out and sold to us as a separate product because konami needed to put something out at the time
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 04:47
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Except it doesn't even hit that level. Using the "second part of a triology" example ignores that even those resolve plotlines more completely. (Unless they're bad films!) I think it does so I guess agree to disagree. quote:Except TPP is a complete story, barring the Eli cutscene. It just isn't a Big Boss story. Everything it brings up (again, barring the Eli cutscene) is resolved. The things it doesn't resolve are larger Metal Gear canon questions. As a story, there seems to be a glaring omission between the functional end of Chapter 2 (A Quiet Exit, but I'll be generous and include Kingdom of Flies as part of Race's resolution as well) and The Truth, which occurs with no build up (lots of hints but in terms of narrative it is dumped into the player's mission list without any connection to... anything). The real ending comes out of nowhere, and it seems to me that there was supposed to be something connecting it to basically everything else that happens that was either not completed or never planned, both of which make the story seem unfinished. It just happens and then the game ends, leaving people (and, from what I've read, it is most of the playerbase) feeling confused at best and embittered at worst
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 04:48
|
|
|
Snak posted:Whose story is it? Its the story of how Big Boss survived that one time, because everyone really wanted that explained, honestly I wish the ending was different because playing through the entire game just to find out we were a stand-in for Big Boss and our fate is to be killed in the first Metal Gear game is so meh, like the game doesn't really matter, like we don't see the fall of Big Boss into a monster, all we see is maybe how a fake Big Boss build up an army that eventually became Outer Heaven but even then its unclear
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 04:50
|
|
|
I mean, you can say it's Venom's story. But then it's the story of how he mostly stood around silently and did nothing except go on missions. Except you can go on missions as anyone, so really you can play the game where Venom does almost nothing at all. The justification that "Venom doesn't talk in the in-engine cutscenes because you might be playing as a different character" is even more horse-poo poo that Kojima's explanation of why Quiet is mostly naked.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 04:53
|
|
|
Ekusukariba posted:Its the story of how Big Boss survived that one time, because everyone really wanted that explained, honestly I wish the ending was different because playing through the entire game just to find out we were a stand-in for Big Boss and our fate is to be killed in the first Metal Gear game is so meh, like the game doesn't really matter, like we don't see the fall of Big Boss into a monster, all we see is maybe how a fake Big Boss build up an army that eventually became Outer Heaven but even then its unclear Snake Eater shows why BB becomes disloyal to his (or any) country. I don't think he ever really becomes a monster since from what we know across all the games is that Zero and his influence over the world and eventually the AI's are the bad guys, and BB and the rest of the guys are trying to take him down. Obviously the way BB does it causes a ton of destruction and costs many lives, but he never really becomes evil.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 04:57
|
|
|
TPP is Huey's story.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:02
|
|
|
Did Troy Baker ever do some of Classic Ocelot's lines for fun? I'd love to hear him hamming it up about how he knows how to make the bullets go where he wants to, or meowing loudly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:04
|
|
|
The guy who wants to create a world of persistent total war, who owns a nuke and has child soldiers, never really became a bad guy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:05
|
|
|
the entire series is about Ocelot trolling the gently caress out of everyone.Speedball posted:Did Troy Baker ever do some of Classic Ocelot's lines for fun? nah, the only thing we really get is him correcting a solider's shooting like bb corrected him in MGS3.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:06
|
|
|
Yeah Bro posted:The guy who wants to create a world of persistent total war, who owns a nuke and has child soldiers, never really became a bad guy. basically. like i said he doesn't go about achieving his goals the right way, but he's not the bad guy of the metal gear series. zero, and later in the series, the AIs are the bad guys.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:10
|
|
|
The word you're looking for is antagonist.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:14
|
|
|
And he was also the primary antagonists of Metal Gear 1 & 2, and inspired literally every single one of the antagonists of the other games except for the one where he was the protagonist.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:15
|
|
|
Reminder that MG1 is ultimately the story of how Big Boss tries to lead his son to his death and declare war on the world with his ghetto Metal Gear, before running off and letting one of the only two people to have stood by him in spite of everything take the fall.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:19
|
|
|
Romes128 posted:basically. What's so good about big boss's goals? Sure, he opposes Zero, but if he'd succeeded, the end result would be much like the situation in 4.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:21
|
|
|
Buschmaki posted:And he was also the primary antagonists of Metal Gear 1 & 2, and inspired literally every single one of the antagonists of the other games except for the one where he was the protagonist. depends on perspective. in MG1, MG2, MGS1, and up until the end of MGS2, Solid Snake and Raiden are being manipulated by the Patriots into fulfilling their missions against people (BB, Liquid, Ocelot) who know the truth about what's really happening. Solid becomes the variable because he stops working for the government after MGS1, which fucks up the Patriots plans in MGS2 because they do not account for him anymore. So yeah, when Solid and Raiden were working for the government, they were working for the bad guys, who were trying to take down people who knew the truth about what was happening with the patriots and all that jazz. Yeah Bro posted:What's so good about big boss's goals? Sure, he opposes Zero, but if he'd succeeded, the end result would be much like the situation in 4. Zero uses all that sweet cash he got to basically buy influence over the world. Eventually it comes to a point where the government, who he and later the AI's, control and can do literally whatever they want. They manipulate and shape world events in their favor. Zero gets vegetabled early on, but the AI's from the later games achieve what he wanted to.BB, Solid, and Ocelot all want to take him out. Solid and Ocelot unwittingly do it together and bb comes up and says drat i hosed up. Romes128 fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Sep 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:21
|
|
|
There can only be one bad group in the world and you're either with them (bad) or against them (good)
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:25
|
|
|
Yeah Bro posted:There can only be one bad group in the world and you're either with them (bad) or against them (good) or you know, you could read what i wrote when i said bb doesn't go about it the right way and caused a bunch of death and destruction. i never said bb was the good guy, only that he wasn't the bad guy of the series.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:32
|
|
|
 Does Ocelots remark "there is only room for one big boss," Kaz's "screw big boss I am going to help make his phantom stronger," and the scene where venom punches the mirror and is bloodied with an outer heaven logo in the background imply that the Venom tries to take over Outer Heaven? We know Kaz says gently caress big boss at some point and helps Solid Snake in MG2 and that Venom is killed in MG1. SPACE HOMOS fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Sep 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:36
|
|
|
SPACE HOMOS posted:
venom probably takes over outer heaven while bb goes to command foxhound for the US government. whether its a power struggle that forces bb out, or he calls venom and says, "yo can you watch my base for a minute" is not known.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:42
|
|
|
SPACE HOMOS posted:
Honestly the only way for anything to make sense to me is that "Big Boss" establishes Outer Heaven, so basically Venom moves Diamond Dogs there and builds up Outer Heaven, since he thinks he's Big Boss and that's just the thing to do when you're Big Boss, because otherwises him suddenly realizing who he actually is doesn't make sense since how he could go to Outer Heaven and command it without realizing he wasn't Big Boss seems impossible, so Venom makes Outer Heaven then one day gets the Tape, finds out everything's a lie, then either rolls with it or decides to become the real Big Boss, starting by getting rid of "his" clone, which obviously doesn't go so well, I also like this theory because it means that Zanzibarland is the real Outer Heaven but Big Boss couldn't use the name because Venom's was found out first so he had to use a different name or else everyone would know he "survived"
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:48
|
|
|
What's the deal with that image? I spy the old school forehead swastika Outer Heaven logo in the background there.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:51
|
|
|
The timeline at the end outright states that Venom died at Outer Heaven
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:51
|
|
|
A Big... Dog posted:THIS IS PEQUOD, COMING IN HOT
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:58
|
|
|
sinking belle posted:What's the deal with that image? I spy the old school forehead swastika Outer Heaven logo in the background there. The timeline background image changes after each major event. It starts with the Fox logo, to MSF, and ends with that one (I think the image doesn't have the swastika) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edQvG6Gdxqc&t=891s 8:47 to 10:01 and then more 14:25 to 15:50. That image is at 14:51 memy posted:The timeline at the end outright states that Venom died at Outer Heaven I know, my post says venom dies in MG1 which is outer heaven.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 05:58
|
|
|
We dont get any closure on DD. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 06:01
|
|
|
SynthOrange posted:We dont get any closure on DD. He died in 1995, causing Venom Snake to go nuclear.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 06:03
|
|
|
Lloyd Boner posted:He died in 1995, causing Venom Snake to go nuclear. parasites actually turned him into that Parrot from MGS2
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 06:03
|
|
|
Infected with vocal chord parasites, DD launches a successful career as a talking dog.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 06:05
|
|
|
SynthOrange posted:We dont get any closure on DD. In the event you want to know anything about what happened to X after MGS5, its that "Solid Snake killed them at Outer Heaven", like remember how there are Dogs at Outer Heaven? Bad News
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 06:05
|
|
|
Ekusukariba posted:Honestly the only way for anything to make sense to me is that "Big Boss" establishes Outer Heaven, so basically Venom moves Diamond Dogs there and builds up Outer Heaven, since he thinks he's Big Boss and that's just the thing to do when you're Big Boss, because otherwises him suddenly realizing who he actually is doesn't make sense since how he could go to Outer Heaven and command it without realizing he wasn't Big Boss seems impossible, so Venom makes Outer Heaven then one day gets the Tape, finds out everything's a lie, then either rolls with it or decides to become the real Big Boss, starting by getting rid of "his" clone, which obviously doesn't go so well, I also like this theory because it means that Zanzibarland is the real Outer Heaven but Big Boss couldn't use the name because Venom's was found out first so he had to use a different name or else everyone would know he "survived" the tape that venom listens to in the bathroom that has the real big boss thanking him (after he has the flashbacks of what really happened) is labeled "operation intrude" which was the name of gray fox/solid snakes mission in MG1, so they were probably working together.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 06:06
|
|
|
It's cord. Vocal cord. No h
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 06:20
|
|
|
How did Miller lose his arm and leg? From the crash in '75 or from being tortured by the Soviets?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 06:26
|
|
|
SeANMcBAY posted:How did Miller lose his arm and leg? From the crash in '75 or from being tortured by the Soviets? Giving how he talked about the Skulls attack, they got him good with a machete
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 06:29
|
|
|
Reminds me of the time I redid that mission with D-Walker, got to the end, put him down, and they just ran past me and shot him dead. So yeah, it's probably the Skulls who cut off his limbs.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 06:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 18:36 |
|
|
SynthOrange posted:We dont get any closure on DD. He was actually Decoy Octopus all along.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2015 06:46
|
|
