Tesseraction posted:

A pointless interjection given that I'm well aware of it and haven't held DawkCrawler up as some 'pure standard of intelligent person' (who is 'not Finnish') - although he's certainly a lot more read-up than you are, speaking as someone from the failed dystopia of Multicultural-stan.

quote:

Again, pointless. Helsinki may be more culturally diverse but that does not make it a 'multicultural' centre. There is a difference between 'foreign people exist here!' and 'we have cultural integration!' and it's crudely disingenuous of you to suggest you necessarily mix with other cultures (willingly or otherwise). You may well do, but "we have ethnics here!" is not a valid point and you should be smart enough to know that.

quote:

So you're taking a job from another Finn who might need it? That's pretty lovely of you dude.

quote:

This once again raises your lack of understanding of ethnic relations beyond the idea that "but I have a black friend!" levels of discourse - okay so you interact with people who aren't Finnish. So what? Do you understand 'Asian culture'? Are you aware that 'Asians' are pretty diverse? And again you refer to 'Africa' without specifying a region. Do you think this might reflect that your understanding of ethnicity might be overly Euro-centric if not Finno-centric? There's no shame in this, but you tried to talk down to someone who suggested a viewpoint more accurate to the wider world outside of your own, so I take issue with this arrogance.

quote:

This is different and an attempt at misdirection. The majority of British 'poo poo' is handled like is 'usually is' in Britain. We're still much more culturally diverse than you basically all over, and certainly if we compare capital to capital.

quote:

This is loving stupid. 'Multiculturalism' existed for millennia before political philosophy looked at it from an analytical point of view. While it can be looked at through a political lens, the same could be said of genotypes, phenotypes () or philosophy like religious diversity (aka denomination evolution and interaction). It's only applicable to a political philosophy if you make political choices based on it, rather than exist within the system.

quote:

Congratulations you have discovered 'sociology.' Next I can introduce you to 'economics' blah blah blah

quote:

Fascinating. So your counterpoint to a question of diversity of your news input is to point to D&D.

quote:

e: also it's vox pops, learn English if you want to be part of SA's culture you loving hick

hackbunny posted:

Ligur, can you explain what's your point? To prevent the rise of extremism in Europe we should... adopt some of the extremists' policies? am I missing something or this is your argument?

e: ^^^ but no leftist parties are currently in power in Europe, are they?

hackbunny posted:

Ligur, can you explain what's your point? To prevent the rise of extremism in Europe we should... adopt some of the extremists' policies? am I missing something or this is your argument?

e: ^^^ but no leftist parties are currently in power in Europe, are they?

Ligur posted:

On this note, Africa also receives something to the tune of 47,600 million as foreign aid, a year. By 2007, the West had spent $2.3 trillion in foreign aid over the past five decades. So even if "the West" collectively owes someone something, I think it would be safe to say we did pay back.

Actually, that's so much money my mind cannot comprehend it.

Baudolino posted:

The solution is probably more liberalism. If there is no welfare state it can`t very well collapse now can it? It`ll also make integration easier since people will be forced to engage in general society to survive. Ghetto`s will still exist, but like in America they will fade away until a new ethnicity is forced on the run. A chanche to sink or swim no matter where in the world you come from. That`s really all these refugees want anyway.

Ligur posted:

Read up in *what*? He posts BBC links and goes about his messianic solution to everything (which is that he has cracked all the problems pertaining). He seems more like he can't see outside of his own opinions than well read.

Ligur posted:

Just telling ya, we are not living in some isolated wasteland without foreigners in sight. Don't get worked up on that. Ask DarkCrawler if we're isolated or not.

Ligur posted:

WTF, what is this even about? You seem to manage one polite reply to me and then go off about weird stuff the next, as some sort of a routine.

Ligur posted:

Yes I do, you are projecting something here again.

Ligur posted:

I am not certainly about to start randomly listing the different countries of origin of the people I interact with in some internet forum because otherwise,

Ligur posted:

a tessecation

Ligur posted:

perhaps thinks I can't tell teh difference between a Gambian, a Tunisian, and a Somalian.

Ligur posted:

That it doesn't occur to me when mentioning Asia to write something so obvious 10 year olds in Finland are aware of (at least were when I was a kid) to the tune of "Pakistan is different to Japan... dahh" doesn't mean I'm not aware of that.

Ligur posted:

I mean.... what kind of retards do you usually discuss with

Ligur posted:

if you really even entertain the idea I (or anyone for that matter) think Africa is = the same place for every African?

Ligur posted:

Or do you just assume everyone who doesn't see eye and eye must be simply an illiterate?

Ligur posted:

Even if they work with people from several countries and are constantly reminded that people all over the world have different nuances when they go about their business? (For example professional interactions: a Belarussian, a French and a Taiwanese person will handle mistakes during some task quite differently, for example. At evening some of them will have wine, some vodka, and some won't touch alcohol, and so on, all stereotypes but all stereotypes for a reason as they often correlate to real life.)

Ligur posted:

Or then do u talk mostly wid americans? (lol, is joke)

Ligur posted:

Also I'm not Euro- and much less Finno-centric. I'm a realist

Ligur posted:

in the sense I know the world doesn't rotate around the West, the EU and much less Finland. In fact, most of the world doesn't even really know we Finns exist or if they do can probably say they heard of either forests or race car drivers at most.

Ligur posted:

The Euro-centric people you are talking about

Ligur posted:

are those who think they have a responsibility to solve problems in far flung countries or those who think we are actually the root cause of all problems someone 6000 miles away faces and henceforth we should open our borders to solve this problem. Which isn't 1) true 2) won't even solve any problems half a world away.

Ligur posted:

You somehow probably misunderstood me and/or are stoned/drunk and therefore angry at something? That was not an attempt to misdirect anyhing, just saying: I feel Helsinki is pretty multicultural in the sense we have 30 or so areas where 20%+ of the people are immigrants. I am not contesting if Britain is more multicultural, it sure as hell is.

Ligur posted:

Mixing of people has always been there, but some kind of planned multiculturalism that political entities especially said they were promoting for, and are worth going after didn't,, like it has after the 70s or 80s in Europe. That's newfangled stuff.

Ligur posted:

You misundertand me again. That's some boring poo poo. I was pointing out DarkCrawler has been on some sort of Jesus -trip where everything he likes today is the absolute truth, the only right ideology, and everyone who doesn't agree is automagically wrong. This is a really black/white view on the world from anyone and he'll grow out of it.

Ligur posted:

I was making a loving joke.

Ligur posted:

...

Baudolino posted:

The solution is probably more liberalism. If there is no welfare state it can`t very well collapse now can it? It`ll also make integration easier since people will be forced to engage in general society to survive. Ghetto`s will still exist, but like in America they will fade away until a new ethnicity is forced on the run. A chanche to sink or swim no matter where in the world you come from. That`s really all these refugees want anyway.

hackbunny posted:

e: ^^^ but no leftist parties are currently in power in Europe, are they?

Tesseraction posted:

My accurate take on the situation.

Reminder: I'm from the UK.

Baudolino posted:

The solution is probably more liberalism. If there is no welfare state it can`t very well collapse now can it? It`ll also make integration easier since people will be forced to engage in general society to survive. Ghetto`s will still exist, but like in America they will fade away until a new ethnicity is forced on the run. A chanche to sink or swim no matter where in the world you come from. That`s really all these refugees want anyway.

rudatron posted:

This is unironically the solution according to libertarian types, but the mistaken belief is that immigrants necessarily strain the welfare system. They don't, they'll have an employment rate at about the same (and sometimes greater) than the natives. It's pure hogwash to suggest they just sit on welfare. The issue is more to do with the lack of demand for unskilled labor in developed countries, and the increase in the supply. But this is a failure of government economic policy and not really the fault of reffo. An 'employer of last resort' program would obviously help, really anything but austerity would be a good play.

Tesseraction posted:

trolling

sokatoah posted:

I have a question which does not follow on from the current discussion.

When Napoleon's army got trapped in a European winter, they froze to death.

When Hitler's army got trapped in a European winter, they froze to death.

These people are trying to reach Austria and Southern Germany, where it gets very cold. What's going to happen in winter?

rudatron posted:

This is unironically the solution according to libertarian types, but the mistaken belief is that immigrants necessarily strain the welfare system. They don't, they'll have an employment rate at about the same (and sometimes greater) than the natives. It's pure hogwash to suggest they just sit on welfare. The issue is more to do with the lack of demand for unskilled labor in developed countries, and the increase in the supply. But this is a failure of government economic policy and not really the fault of reffo. An 'employer of last resort' program would obviously help, really anything but austerity would be a good play.

Ligur posted:

For those who have not seen before, why exactly are some suspicious characters defying that "fact" immigrants - including asylum seekers - are not burden as they integrate in no time, or at least after a while.

Unemployment rates of foreigners in EU 2014:



Source

Now EU is not big on any sort of profiling going further than this, but we are already aware particularly non OECD nationals and particularly asylum seekers probably inflate those statistics somewhat.

Well at least Germany, the economic powerhouse of Europe, seems to do quite well in.... AAAAHH!



Source.

The current asylum seeker wave is not an economic boost to EU. Nor is there any reason to believe the Syrians, Afghans, Somalis, Eritreans, Iraqis etc. arriving now will launch some sort of new cultural Golden Age in Europe either. Guyz, stop making at least the fist argument, and then dismissing those who are not happy with the current developments by shrugging them off as some sort of cranks possible driven by racism, prejudices because they don't know the facts, or whatever.

quote:

People on part-time employment, public officials, and the self-employed were not taken into account by the new statistics - which meant that the owners of foreign restaurants, for instance, were also not counted. Only foreigners with residence permits were included, so refugees and asylum seekers were also left out of the figures.

Ligur posted:

rudatron posted:

This is unironically the solution according to libertarian types, but the mistaken belief is that immigrants necessarily strain the welfare system. They don't, they'll have an employment rate at about the same (and sometimes greater) than the natives. It's pure hogwash to suggest they just sit on welfare. The issue is more to do with the lack of demand for unskilled labor in developed countries, and the increase in the supply. But this is a failure of government economic policy and not really the fault of reffo. An 'employer of last resort' program would obviously help, really anything but austerity would be a good play.

moebius2778 posted:

Err, also from that source...

Bolding mine.

Trying to figure out what all the stuff you're posting has to do with asylum seekers.

quote:

Immigrants to Germany from the Arab world had the highest unemployment rates - particularly people from Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Iran. "That is surely also because people don't come to Germany for professional reasons, but as refugees, and so find it more difficult to get a professional foothold," said Schäfer.

DarkCrawler posted:

Are you literally not acknowledging my reply to you and constantly bitching about me to an unrelated poster who is actually asking you to stop?

Friendly Tumour posted:

So great, refugees fleeing war and persecution have problems getting jobs when they finally arrive in whatever country that doesn't immedietly tell them to move along. Now all that's required for any of this to be meaningful is for our resident race realists to prove that is in any way their fault.

tumblr.txt posted:

Hello thread, if anyone would like some ideas about how to Stop the Boats, please feel free to ask. I'm Australian and we're quite good at that kind of thing.

Ligur posted:

Ligur posted:

I suspect you'll ignore this, but for example in Finland Ghanalese, Kenyans, Nigerians, Ethiopians and Nepalese among others are very well employed.

You can also bet the average Finnish employer can't tell an Ethiopian, a Kenyan, a Somalian or a Sudanese (also not well employed), and then pick and choose who they will oppress by utilizing some finely tuned race radar based on the country of origin of a person.

Since race seems to have nothing to do with it (all the above being black people from Africa) the more rational explanation why certain nationalities have difficulty finding employemt is what has been repeated a dozen times by many posters in this thread: what skills people offer do not meet the demand of an information and service society like Finland.

This isn't particularly anyone's "fault". But that doesn't mean it isn't meaningful. The current flood of Iraqis and Somalians escaping the horrors of Sweden to seek asylum here will be a terrible financial burden for a long time. Not something you want during a long recession.

edit:

Link for good measure.

tumblr.txt posted:

If we are going to accept X refugees, but there are 10x X applications, I would like to see a return to "Women and Children First". These groups are the most disadvantaged and are much less likely to be radicalized.

tumblr.txt posted:

If we are going to accept X refugees, but there are 10x X applications, I would like to see a return to "Women and Children First". These groups are the most disadvantaged and are much less likely to be radicalized.

tumblr.txt posted:

If we are going to accept X refugees, but there are 10x X applications, I would like to see a return to "Women and Children First". These groups are the most disadvantaged and are much less likely to be radicalized.

Friendly Tumour posted:

Separating families sounds like a great idea that won't have any negative consequences whatsoever. I'm sure the refugees are going to be thrilled too.

Mordekai posted:

The majority of asylum seekers are young men.