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Grumpo posted:Everytime. Jody's a big dude. To put this in perspective, these were my numbers while living in the DC metro as an E-4. If you're single, you're living in the military barracks. No rent, but subject to all sorts of dumb rules, have to deal with people randomly coming into your room all the time to "inspect it", and have to eat at the military cafeteria. All you get is your base pay, $2,351. If you're married, you can live wherever you want, you get: base pay ($2351), food allowance ($365), housing allowance ($2118). More than double the pay, and you don't have to live in the barracks.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:30
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God drat I didn't realized it was THAT slanted. I knew it was beneficial to have a spouse in the military but not that much.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:34
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How about BWM: corporate edition? VW Dieselgate scandal was done to save about 350 bucks per car, even though owners paid a 6-7k premium for the diesel engine, it should have been compliant for that much money. 18B in potential EPA fees, not including the cost to retrofit or buy back the cars.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:35
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BraveUlysses posted:How about BWM: corporate edition? It was good with money at the time, and only turned into bad with money because they got caught!
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Sep 29, 2015 19:37
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xsf421 posted:To put this in perspective, these were my numbers while living in the DC metro as an E-4. Is that a net gain or net loss assuming that some significant percentage of those soldiers are buffoons and get married to some girl who's goal is to get married to a military guy for the life it provides and eventual benefits?
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Sep 29, 2015 19:47
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VW only sold like 350,000 cars in the US in 2014, can't they just pull out of the market rather than pay the EPA?
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Sep 29, 2015 19:53
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:VW only sold like 350,000 cars in the US in 2014, can't they just pull out of the market rather than pay the EPA? assuming average sales price of 20K that's 7B of revenue they would be walking away from annually.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:56
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hanales posted:assuming average sales price of 20K that's 7B of revenue they would be walking away from annually. oh I did the math wrong and forgot a zero, good answer
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Sep 29, 2015 19:59
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:VW only sold like 350,000 cars in the US in 2014, can't they just pull out of the market rather than pay the EPA? They've been deceiving customers and the EPA for 6 years, you can't just walk away from that.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:00
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BraveUlysses posted:They've been deceiving customers and the EPA for 6 years, you can't just walk away from that.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:03
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Would Germany force them to pay? I don't see how the US government could force a foreign corporation to pay outside of seizing cash assets in the US, or relying on the foreign government to comply with demands. If I were a german taxpayer whose state has a stake in VW, I would probably prefer they not pay, but $7b revenue/year is a lot. They own multiple factories and millions of cars worth of inventory in the US. All of that could be seized.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:14
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Would Germany force them to pay? I don't see how the US government could force a foreign corporation to pay outside of seizing cash assets in the US, or relying on the foreign government to comply with demands. If I were a german taxpayer whose state has a stake in VW, I would probably prefer they not pay, but $7b revenue/year is a lot. That would mean, no audi, no VW, no bentley, no ducati, no porsche, no lambos in the US. They are the third largest automaker in the world, they can't just "walk away" from one of the largest markets, you're talking losses way beyond just that one shot annual revenue. I can not accept no Audi's in the US, regardless of how BWM that makes me.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:18
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Would Germany force them to pay? I don't see how the US government could force a foreign corporation to pay outside of seizing cash assets in the US, or relying on the foreign government to comply with demands. If I were a german taxpayer whose state has a stake in VW, I would probably prefer they not pay, but $7b revenue/year is a lot. Isn't the U.S. still the largest auto-market in the world? It's tough to walk away from that. I'm sure there's a dollar figure that would make VW leave the market, but I'm also confident we'll just make them pay a fraction of the 18 billion we could fine them because we really like big corporations and dislike ramifications. I think we've already said on the record we wouldn't force them out of business. The EPA is only one of their worries. Every VW diesel owner in a wide variety of countries could sue for reduced value. The cars are not worth what they were a week ago and if the 'fix' reduces performance then they're worth even less. Even if the cars were worth just $1k less after the scandal, that's upwards of 11 billion dollars in potential damages.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:23
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hanales posted:That would mean, no audi, no VW, no bentley, no ducati, no porsche, no lambos in the US. They are the third largest automaker in the world, they can't just "walk away" from one of the largest markets, you're talking losses way beyond just that one shot annual revenue.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:23
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BraveUlysses posted:VW Dieselgate scandal was done to save about 350 bucks per car, even though owners paid a 6-7k premium for the diesel engine, it should have been compliant for that much money. Do you have a source on this? Considering the "fix" for this problem is an ECU flash that greatly reduces performance and gas mileage, how could that be overcome for only $350 at the factory?
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Sep 29, 2015 20:30
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hanales posted:I can not accept no Audi's in the US, regardless of how BWM that makes me.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:32
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Radbot posted:Do you have a source on this? Considering the "fix" for this problem is an ECU flash that greatly reduces performance and gas mileage, how could that be overcome for only $350 at the factory? http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2015/volkswagen/dieselgate-bosch-says-vw-knew-54142 Pretty much all of the articles that discuss bosch's warning to VW mention the cost to add urea.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:33
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Radbot posted:Do you have a source on this? Considering the "fix" for this problem is an ECU flash that greatly reduces performance and gas mileage, how could that be overcome for only $350 at the factory? Presumably it was to avoid installing urea injection systems into the cars, and thus to save money. The ECU flash is going to wreck the performance and economy of the cars, and possibly the engine longevity, too. They wouldn't have been able to sell as many of the cars with the cheating ECU map running all the time since the performance and economy numbers won't be nearly as good.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:34
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I've also heard that in some desperate regions VW was given large tax incentives and money by local and state governments to build factories and plants further complicating a withdrawal from the US. For example if they were to pull out a factory deal in Tennessee they would have to pay back millions in tax incentives given to them by the state to build there.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:37
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Dr. Eldarion posted:I read this as BMW, and was very very confused. I am in the same boat. I reread it like 5 times before I got it.
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Sep 29, 2015 21:01
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VW decided to not use SCR, which was an incremental cost of $350/car. VW brand loses money in the US, but the group most definitely makes money. They won't exit rather than pay penalties. The penalties would be tough to avoid since they have significant assets in the US market, and there would be a lot of people doing a lot of suing (dealer network, etc).
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Sep 29, 2015 21:05
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Tigntink posted:I am in the same boat. I reread it like 5 times before I got it. I like the idea of using car brands as adjectives. I'm sooo much more Mercedes than Honda 
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Sep 29, 2015 21:10
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BWM => BVW
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Sep 29, 2015 21:14
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:VW decided to not use SCR, which was an incremental cost of $350/car. I actually would be surprised if whoever made the decision to cheat the system also didn't set aside a slush fund to pay for the inevitable discovery and the resulting penalties.
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Sep 29, 2015 21:24
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enraged_camel posted:I actually would be surprised if whoever made the decision to cheat the system also didn't set aside a slush fund to pay for the inevitable discovery and the resulting penalties. If they did that, they'd be cutting into their revenue numbers, which was what drove the whole cheat in the first place. And, more importantly, if you set something like that up, it completely destroys your ability to pass the buck. There's already a ton of finger-pointing going on as more details come out. If somebody set up a slush fund, it's as good as admitting fault. The proper corporate sleazebag move is to send a few "guys, I'm concerned this might not meet regulatory standards" emails to execs who you know will ignore them, then shut up and take your bonus checks.
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Sep 29, 2015 21:42
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BraveUlysses posted:http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2015/volkswagen/dieselgate-bosch-says-vw-knew-54142 Oh, wow, so these vehicles didn't need SCR/urea at all according to VW? I thought every diesel engine needed that poo poo to meet new emissions regs - are there any diesel vehicles on the road today that meet the new NOx guidelines without SCR? Space Gopher posted:And, more importantly, if you set something like that up, it completely destroys your ability to pass the buck. There's already a ton of finger-pointing going on as more details come out. If somebody set up a slush fund, it's as good as admitting fault. The proper corporate sleazebag move is to send a few "guys, I'm concerned this might not meet regulatory standards" emails to execs who you know will ignore them, then shut up and take your bonus checks. Didn't J&J set up a fund to pay the eventual penalties they knew they'd incur with the whole Risperdal fiasco?
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Sep 29, 2015 21:54
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Everyone was like "how does VW meet Euro5 without SCR??" and thought that they had hit on something clever, when actually they were just cheating. It's pretty funny in a corporate.txt way.
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Sep 29, 2015 21:56
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Radbot posted:I thought every diesel engine needed that poo poo to meet new emissions regs Turns out they do need that poo poo. All this got found because someone was like, "drat that's impressive how's VW meet regs w/o the usual poo poo?" and then found out, oh wait, VW doesn't meet regs. Didn't the main draw of VW diesels just get destroyed? My impression was that while they're not regarded as reliable, their performance and economy are supposed to be pretty good, all without the PITA of urea storage/maintenance like all the other diesels. If they flash ECRs it'll gently caress up performance AND economy, or if they go with urea, I understand it takes up as much space as a spare tire, plus you have to have it maintained. So did practically every VW owner go from having a fun car to a piece of poo poo that they're going to hate and can't resell?
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Sep 29, 2015 22:54
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NancyPants posted:did practically every VW owner go from having a fun car to a piece of poo poo that they're going to hate and can't resell? It's called "getting the full Volkswagen experience."
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Sep 29, 2015 23:06
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NancyPants posted:So did practically every VW owner go from having a fun car to a piece of poo poo that they're going to hate and can't resell? According to my mechanic teachers at TAFE, that's nothing unusual. ^ Beaten like a rug.
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Sep 29, 2015 23:10
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BMW = BWM
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Sep 29, 2015 23:56
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Space Gopher posted:If they did that, they'd be cutting into their revenue numbers, which was what drove the whole cheat in the first place. Not really. They would simply be planning for contingencies. The corporate equivalent of a "rainy day fund", if you will. They would still generate the same revenue, and they could spin the rainy day fund as "reinvesting back into the company". quote:And, more importantly, if you set something like that up, it completely destroys your ability to pass the buck. There's already a ton of finger-pointing going on as more details come out. If somebody set up a slush fund, it's as good as admitting fault. I think as long as they didn't call it "The Slush Fund for When We Inevitably Get Sued" they would be quite fine. I mean, really, do you realize how creative corporations can get with their accounting? It's very easy to hide things in plain sight if you're even a semi-competent corporate accountant.
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Sep 30, 2015 00:36
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They're going to litigate and settle this poo poo down for years and years, long after the public mandate has faded and past the tenures of officials calling for blood, and eventually pay pennies on the dollar threatened while pocketing a huge profit on the time value of ill gotten gains.
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Sep 30, 2015 00:50
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:They're going to litigate and settle this poo poo down for years and years, long after the public mandate has faded and past the tenures of officials calling for blood, and eventually pay pennies on the dollar threatened while pocketing a huge profit on the time value of ill gotten gains. Also this. GM paid out a billion in fines for something that caused hundreds of fatalities. This will be 500m max when all is said and done.
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Sep 30, 2015 00:53
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enraged_camel posted:Your husband's parents sound like they are BWM: bad with marriage. IDK where BWM comes in there. Doing 20 years in the military and getting to collect that pension, then moving into a second career (which itself may have a pension) is pretty GWM.
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Sep 30, 2015 01:11
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hanales posted:Also this. GM paid out a billion in fines for something that caused hundreds of fatalities. This will be 500m max when all is said and done. It's going to be more than GM because the paper trail is so much clearer and there's no downside to fining a foreign company with German shareholders. Not a whole lot more, but I'd guess 1.5 billion. Then the billions in class action lawsuits, but they can drag that on long enough to make the pain sting less. The worst part is probably going to be less money spent on R&D and marketing. Volkswagen focused on diesel so much, do they even have a hybrid option? Then there are the penalties from European environmental agencies as well. Whatever passes for the EPA in Greece is probably salivating at the prospect of fining a German company.
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Sep 30, 2015 01:18
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Krispy Kareem posted:Volkswagen focused on diesel so much, do they even have a hybrid option? Apparently they introduced a hybrid Jetta in 2013, but I haven't heard much about it. Plus they're introducing a plug-in hybrid Passat in Europe: https://transportevolved.com/2015/07/15/volkswagen-officially-launches-2015-passat-gte-plug-in-hybrid-sedan-wagon-variant-in-europe/
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Sep 30, 2015 01:44
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Pompous Rhombus posted:IDK where BWM comes in there. Doing 20 years in the military and getting to collect that pension, then moving into a second career (which itself may have a pension) is pretty GWM. I said marriage, not money.
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Sep 30, 2015 02:06
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Doing 20 years in the military Ahaha, gently caress that. I'm out this Friday after 6 years. You can certainly be GWM in the lower ranks but most of my coworkers are flat broke from terrible life choices or spending literally every dollar they have every paycheck on stupid poo poo. My favorite one was the guy who hosed himself over on cars. Shows up with a Hyundai Accent hatchback. Wanted a better car to pick up chicks with so he trades it in for a red mustang. Gets caught speeding and pays a fine, whatever. Goes to the dealership again for some reason and sees another mustang, but this one was a GT. Calls his insurance and asks them how much he'd be paying on insurance and they tell him it would be cheaper to take the V8. Trades in the V6 at a loss and gets the V8. This lasts about three weeks before he gets a call from his insurance letting him know that his rates are going up because he's driving a faster car and already has a speeding ticket. He trades that one in for another huge loss and gets a Sentra or something. Gets deployed and comes back then goes car shopping again. We think maybe he'll be sensible this time, instead he buys an F350 with 100000 miles already on the engine. That lasts a couple months before he sells it and gets a Dodge Dart. We think he was still paying off the mustangs when he left for Korea.
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Sep 30, 2015 02:47
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A Kpro posted:Ahaha, gently caress that. I'm out this Friday after 6 years. You can certainly be GWM in the lower ranks but most of my coworkers are flat broke from terrible life choices or spending literally every dollar they have every paycheck on stupid poo poo. Congrats on your soon to be freedom. Living near base has permanently turned me off to Mustangs and Camaros and all the lower enlisted paying off loans on their "cool" cars with outragously high interest. You can offer guidance and try to set an example but most are too arrogent or stupid to listen. Picture an e4 medic with a tony the tiger striped gt500 revving their engine between predeployment classes and looking around to see if people are watching him act like a loving idiot. Lifelong debt is so cool.
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Sep 30, 2015 02:57
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