|
Krinkle posted:Was the title of his screenplay three weeks earlier? How was the title also "the end?"? Does title just mean a word on the center of the screen? Ya.
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2015 19:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:04 |
|
|
Krinkle posted:Was the title of his screenplay three weeks earlier? How was the title also "the end?"? Does title just mean a word on the center of the screen? I think he means title, as in title card: 
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2015 20:03
|
|
|
Krinkle posted:Was the title of his screenplay three weeks earlier? How was the title also "the end?"? Does title just mean a word on the center of the screen? In screenwriting, you just put [TITLE] or BEGIN TITLES or something when you want the title of the movie to show on screen, instead of actually writing out the title. Because the goddamn producer is going to change the loving movie title fifty loving times before filming even starts. It's also unprofessional as gently caress to put production notes like that in a spec script at all, which adds an extra layer of comedy to the joke.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2015 20:04
|
|
|
Maybe. But sometimes it is woven into the story enough that it should be added. Like in the leaked Deadpool script. No idea if it made it to the movie, but the whole title sequence is done in a similar way as Zombieland (same writers) where the titles are floating and flying around with the action. A character would fly into it, breaking it, or Deadpool would shoot it ect... If you're doing something like that, I don't see why you wouldn't write it into the script. 3 weeks Earlier though is some bullshit. That is the only flaw in John Wick. It starts off in the worst, most cliche way possible. And if you cut that opening scene out, you open your movie with a loving alarm clock going off. Ooof. Great movie though!
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2015 20:27
|
|
|
Writers have really fallen in love with in medias res because it means you can jump right into a big flashy sequence to grab the audience's attention right away rather than actually earning it by being interesting. The whole "three weeks earlier" thing is just an evolution of that. It lets them pre-empt their boring exposition bits (which they have to include because they're lovely writers) with something exciting since if they started the movie at the actual start of the story everyone would get bored and leave.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2015 20:36
|
|
|
I'd be oool with a 3 weeks later if the intro scene is something that makes absolutely no sense out of context and the rest of the movie is just building back up to that point. Instead of "woah cool explosions" it would be "what the gently caress did I just watch" and that would be the hook because now you have to know what the point of that scene was.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2015 21:17
|
|
|
My favorite cliched line from the screen play was "Hot, but she doesn't know it".
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2015 22:07
|
|
|
I was listening to the podcast The Blacklist where they do table reads of screenplays. I had thought it was going to be terrible screenplays that nobody would make a movie from read with all ironic ernestness to underscore the "can you believe some idiot wrote this poo poo?"-ness of it. but apparently they like these things and they're honestly giving them some kind of attention. (Does that thing I just said ever happen? That's the podcast I want to listen to.) Anyway all these screenplays have like ironic jokes for the benefit of the person rejecting them that can't possibly be filmed and confuse me as why they're there. I was reminded of them when the man started reading his script. "this, is not her day" how do you film that? What does that mean in what is supposed to describe a film? Is she going to blow her bangs back and roll her eyes and I'm supposed to read "wow, not my day" in her expression? I can't tell what is part of a bad script like what that guy did or what all scripts do and it's up to the director to figure out the details.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2015 22:17
|
|
|
Philip Rivers posted:I'd be oool with a 3 weeks later if the intro scene is something that makes absolutely no sense out of context and the rest of the movie is just building back up to that point. Instead of "woah cool explosions" it would be "what the gently caress did I just watch" and that would be the hook because now you have to know what the point of that scene was.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2015 22:35
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:What do you draw these in out of curiosity? All the designs are done in photoshop
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2015 23:32
|
|
|
Krinkle posted:I was listening to the podcast The Blacklist where they do table reads of screenplays. I had thought it was going to be terrible screenplays that nobody would make a movie from read with all ironic ernestness to underscore the "can you believe some idiot wrote this poo poo?"-ness of it. but apparently they like these things and they're honestly giving them some kind of attention. (Does that thing I just said ever happen? That's the podcast I want to listen to.) Sometimes even good scripts have jokes deliberately written into the stage directions just for the benefit of the cast/crew, although it's more common with TV scripts where the writers would actually know the people who are going to be reading it. It doesn't seem like the sort of thing a first time screenwriter should do if they don't want to come off as being incredibly smug and making jokes for themselves in their own script. But then I don't work in anything related to TV or movies so maybe a really good joke in the stage directions might be a way to make your script more memorable to some executive deciding what to buy. Lizion posted:Or if there's some twist it can be good. Like if after watching the rest of the movie the intro scene gets a new meaning. For example in that one Firefly episode, where he sits naked in the desert and goes "Welp, that went well" sarcastically, but at the end you realize it wasn't sarcasm at all. Fight Club starts with the whole "movie starts at the last scene of the story, then flashes back and works its way back to the opening scene" thing. It's a good movie and the scene does have more context when you get back to it, but I'm honestly not sure how necessary it really is since the first time you see it it's not really clear what's going on at all anyway so ANYTHING could have happened in the movie and given it more context. There are movies that have made better use of that trope, but I can't think of any good examples right off the top of my head. The key thing is that you need to be able to form enough of an impression the first time you see the scene that you think you can figure out what's going on. Then you see the rest of the movie and when you come back to that scene again, the new things you've learned will have turned that impression on its head in some way. I guess Memento could kind of work as a good example although it's not a very "pure" one since that's the gimmick of basically EVERY scene in that movie, rather than just an in medias res opening followed by a flashback. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Oct 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2015 23:58
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:Sometimes even good scripts have jokes deliberately written into the stage directions just for the benefit of the cast/crew, although it's more common with TV scripts where the writers would actually know the people who are going to be reading it. It doesn't seem like the sort of thing a first time screenwriter should do if they don't want to come off as being incredibly smug and making jokes for themselves in their own script. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind used it pretty well.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 00:09
|
|
|
Yeah, "in media res / flashback" isn't inherently awful so much as it is heavily overused, especially as of late. It could work, but if you're aspiring/trying to sell something it's a sign to the people who read these things not to bother.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 00:27
|
|
|
I think the trope works best in situations where the audience knows something about the characters and/or setting ahead of time. The audience probably has some expectations about what's going to happen, so these opening scenes can be built to make the audience think, "WTF??" Then, there's the episode-long flash back, and the audience will be hanging on every word, every detail, every action, because they want to see how the crazy situation evolved. Then, the crazy scene itself can be resolved. Overall, the impact on the audience can be greater than just letting it all play out normally. But, it's easy to overuse it, and in movies where I don't already know something about the characters or setting, it can feel cheap. An opening scene with a bunch of strangers in a strange situation heaped high with tension isn't as moving if you have no idea who anybody is or why there's tension.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 00:28
|
|
|
tarlibone posted:But, it's easy to overuse it, and in movies where I don't already know something about the characters or setting, it can feel cheap. An opening scene with a bunch of strangers in a strange situation heaped high with tension isn't as moving if you have no idea who anybody is or why there's tension. It's better when the opener is a climax and not just part of the rising action. Seeing the resolution play out makes it a lot more interesting, because instead of it being some random tense scene with no context that doesn't actually go anywhere, you already know where things are going and it makes it easier to invest in the journey of getting there. You effectively get a second climax when you finally put the climax into context.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 00:37
|
|
|
The movie "Maverick" goes into a half-hour flashback almost immediately, and I think it might do a flashback-within-a-flashback at one point. Although that was written by William Goldman, so it's okay. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 00:37
|
|
|
I wonder when the trend will circle back atound and we'll start seeing movies or TV episodes where the scenes play in reverse order again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 00:39
|
|
|
I watched Rashomon for the first time a couple days ago and it's pretty much 100% flashbacks (within a flashback).
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 00:40
|
|
|
I feel like the absolutely amazing Venture Brother's episode "Escape from the House of Mummies pt. 2" shows that with good enough writing, not only do you not need the slow-burn backstory, you can also skip a large amount of standard characterization/plotting and get right into the continuous, insane climax.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 00:45
|
|
|
"In media res" is a concept as old as storytelling and just because all-star writers Dan Harmon and Justin Roiland don't like it doesn't mean it's suddenly hacky.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 01:09
|
|
|
The Usual Suspects used it pretty well imo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 01:21
|
|
|
Guy A. Person posted:"In media res" is a concept as old as storytelling and just because all-star writers Dan Harmon and Justin Roiland don't like it doesn't mean it's suddenly hacky. The fact that it's as old as storytelling is what makes it hacky. It's a cliché. You can use clichés and have them work but using them without thinking makes for really bad writing. Plus I think the point of the bit wasn't so much about that specific trope as it was how bad the guy was at taking criticism on his script which absolutely is a hack writer thing. Morty just started by making a really mild comment about the first thing in the story and the guy immediately flips out.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 01:28
|
|
|
Typical posted:All the designs are done in photoshop One thing I have a hard time doing with my art is crafting perfectly straight lines, do you just have a steady hand or are you using a tool for that? The only way I can get straight lines is by using the line tool in flash.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 01:30
|
|
|
It was also more funny because the guy practically begged for criticism.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 01:31
|
|
|
tarlibone posted:It was also more funny because the guy practically begged for criticism. I dunno, for me it was Ryan Ridley (I think that was him voicing that character)'s accent + autistic delivery for me. "NoImeanit. Tellmewhatyoureallythink." *Morty says what he really thinks* "...getout..." "NoImeanit! Ipourmyheartout! Andyoutakearankshitonit! Getout!"
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 01:43
|
|
|
I just found this. NFL QB Andy Dalton in the worst game of his career does his Morty impression to loosen up his team.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 04:32
|
|
|
He doesn't sound like Morty though?
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 05:37
|
|
|
Guy A. Person posted:"In media res" is a concept as old as storytelling and just because all-star writers Dan Harmon and Justin Roiland don't like it doesn't mean it's suddenly hacky. I do respect their opinions though. I mean one of em... can't remember which though hit the nail on the head with the 'salt restaurant' analogy for what irks me about rom-coms and stuff. Harmon I think...
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 06:27
|
|
|
In Total Rickall, one of the wacky characters was a duck with bodybuilder arms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't "birds with buff arms" something Something Awful made into a thing? http://www.somethingawful.com/photoshop-phriday/birds-human-hands/1/
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 08:39
|
|
|
Steve Yun posted:In Total Rickall, one of the wacky characters was a duck with bodybuilder arms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't "birds with buff arms" something Something Awful made into a thing? Nah. A different forum came up with the idea before we had it and then after it'd been done by us Tumblr and Reddit and 4chan got hold of the idea and made it popular. Most of the reposts around the internet seem to be using Reddit images. http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/birds-with-arms
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 11:35
|
|
|
Guy A. Person posted:"In media res" is a concept as old as storytelling and just because all-star writers Dan Harmon and Justin Roiland don't like it doesn't mean it's suddenly hacky. I dunno, I didn't read the scene so much as him dumping on in medias res so much as him dumping on writers who think that using it means their reader will be automatically invested without having to do any actual work on tough stuff like story or characterization.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 11:46
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:One thing I have a hard time doing with my art is crafting perfectly straight lines, do you just have a steady hand or are you using a tool for that? Straight lines in photoshop are easy. Brush tool -> Left click where you want line to start -> Hold down shift -> Left click where you want line to end
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 11:46
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:Straight lines in photoshop are easy. I think he means smooth brush strokes. Which if you look at previous Typical posts, he doesn't seem to do on the first pass. There are some very rough/ sketched versions, and some which get refined and have those real nice smooth lines.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 16:04
|
|
|
Tablets exist.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 16:08
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:The fact that it's as old as storytelling is what makes it hacky. It's a cliché. You can use clichés and have them work but using them without thinking makes for really bad writing. To your second point, I agree. I think the point was that Morty himself makes a minor complaint about something he isn't a fan of and the guy flips out immediately after begging for feedback. I do think the writers have a tendency to use their characters as mouthpieces for their own opinions on writing (Morty's outburst to Summer in the previous episode), but in this case it was generalized and pretty innocuous. I mostly was responding to others in this thread who seemed to be taking it as gospel that it was automatically hacky; bad writers just use it wrong. I don't agree with your first point at all because it's such a basic storytelling technique that you may as well be mocking the three act structure or first person narration or something. The problem is how you use these things as a crutch for bad writing; using them doesn't inherently make the writing bad. Motherfucker posted:I do respect their opinions though. Yeah I do too, most of their opinions are well thought out and come from experience. They can be opinionated bastards though, and it is really annoying when they use their characters as mouthpieces (both here and on Community). I think that's more hackneyed than most of the stuff they end up complaining about. Skippy McPants posted:I dunno, I didn't read the scene so much as him dumping on in medias res so much as him dumping on writers who think that using it means their reader will be automatically invested without having to do any actual work on tough stuff like story or characterization. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 16:25
|
|
|
Guy A. Person posted:I don't agree with your first point at all because it's such a basic storytelling technique that you may as well be mocking the three act structure or first person narration or something. The problem is how you use these things as a crutch for bad writing; using them doesn't inherently make the writing bad. The only rule that must be adhered to in any art form is "be good". You can make the most hackneyed piece of writing in the world but if it's good people will still like and enjoy it. Any critique of any form of media is just trying to find a way to justify why the reviewer does or doesn't like it. You can have cliches described as refreshing, or new ideas described as boring and overworked, it really doesn't matter what you do as long as it's good.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 16:41
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:Straight lines in photoshop are easy. Yes basically. just shift click. or just draw really loving fast.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 18:51
|
|
|
Morty's comment was off anyway. "We should start our stories where they begin, not where they get interesting"? The great thing about this joke was that nothing interesting was even happening at all. It's just this terrible, miserable, humdrum setup, which raises no curiosity whatsoever and has no missing context, and then, just at the instant something sort-of-exciting-but-not-really might be about to happen, then he jumps back in time three whole weeks? How could anybody possibly care more about what happened in the preceding three weeks than what's about to happen? Who could mistake that bait-and-switch for tension-building? If this is a high point in the action, what misery could possibly fill those three weeks? It's bad on so many levels. I love it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 19:54
|
|
|
Remember to use your whole arm to get good lines too. Don't use your wrist too much for long lines.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 21:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:04 |
|
|
Guy A. Person posted:"In media res" is a concept as old as storytelling and just because all-star writers Dan Harmon and Justin Roiland don't like it doesn't mean it's suddenly hacky. I really don't think they're saying media res is inherientally bad or even that they don't like it (this thread tends to assume a lot sometimes, like most Internet places). I feel like the joke was "Morty gives honest but mild critism and the lighthouse owner over reacts". It's such a gentle piece of advice. Morty basically just says "I don't like it when stories start in the middle instead of at the beginning so maybe change that." He doesn't even say anything specifically bad about the story, but the lighthouse owner still freaks out and starts trying to send him and his wounded grandfather to their deaths.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 21:52
|
|