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Having ducked out of these threads for a while, where's a good place to look at a breakdown of why the production side has had so many problems since Moffat took the reins?
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Sep 30, 2015 19:42
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Jerusalem posted:I thought Into the Dalek did a nice job of providing some much needed context to that utterly stupid "hive-mind" nonsense (an internal computer system monitoring the Daleks' thought-processes and censoring/blocking stuff in order to keep their thoughts "pure"), but it is another case of the Daleks being written very inconsistently from one appearance to the next. Dalek technology evolves. It's perfectly possible that some daleks had had the computer super-ego, and some (most) never did. Some Daleks think human-dalek hybrids might be a good idea, while other Daleks will exterminate their own kind for not being sufficiently pure. The daleks are having stories and advancements even when we aren't watching. Billions of Daleks over thousands (millions?) of years, and we mostly only see them when they chose to interact with humanity or the Doctor. When they stole Adipose 3 we didn't find out about it until the Adipose tried using Earth as a nursery world, and we didn't find out the Daleks were the ones responsible until they took Earth too. Their ultimate goal of universal conquest remains the same, but they try a lot of different ways to get there.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:46
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Clouseau posted:Having ducked out of these threads for a while, where's a good place to look at a breakdown of why the production side has had so many problems since Moffat took the reins? As I understand it, the people in charge of the budget fired the people who actually knew how to put the show together in a timely/cost effective manner prior to Series 5. Thus, the budget for that series spiraled out of control (a lot of it being spent on location shooting in Prague, IIRC). Essentially this caused a deficit that was slowly being paid back by splitting up series 6 and 7 over the course of three years. As I recall, they tried rehiring the people they fired to come back and fix everything, but the response was essentially "lol no". Now all this is technically under Moffat's watch, so he definitely has some accountability, but with his workload writing scripts for both this and Sherlock, it's probably a case of him trusting some people to help him out that failed miserably. All this is from memory, so someone please correct me I've mixed some things up.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:50
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I think there was something about the BBC wanting shows to be filmed in HD or 3D (something with a "D" on the end, anyway  ) during season five, which pushed up the costs. How much truth is there to that?
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Sep 30, 2015 19:52
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Wheat Loaf posted:I think there was something about the BBC wanting shows to be filmed in HD or 3D (something with a "D" on the end, anyway HD, most likely. 3D didnt' come in until Day of the Doctor and then got abandoned immediately. Also Moffat had very public falling outs with some staff members.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:58
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MisterBibs posted:I can't remember the details, but wasn't the budget stuff not Moffat's doing, but those two producers who were on Confidential all the time? Like I said I can't remember the details, but I distinctly remember reading that the half-season stuff was due to non-Moffat producer budget incompetence. Quite the opposite, Moffat got rid of them and replaced them with people much less good at their job. Wheat Loaf posted:I think there was something about the BBC wanting shows to be filmed in HD or 3D (something with a "D" on the end, anyway It's in HD now, yes. DoctorWhat posted:The budget for Series 5 was actually lower than it had been for Series 4 and probably for S3 too. Yes, but greater than Series 1 and without the added challenge of getting it back on the air for the first time in however many years (comparing the challenges that new producers have to face). As an example of a challenge, JNT hadn't even been a producer before and didn't have the usual helping hand from the higherups at the Beeb so Barry Letts had to be dragged in to help show him the ropes.
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Sep 30, 2015 20:10
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Burkion posted:JaKiri actually does express most of what I'm trying to convey very well actually There's a first time for everything
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Sep 30, 2015 20:10
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Gaz-L posted:The Pi puzzle is mostly annoying because there's a fairly easy, if rote, answer you could use. Each row, the correct tile is the corresponding significant digit of pi. Which I think Ainley tried to do, given how he bounds across the board. But then the Doctor just strolls across the middle. But then you'd have to have 
After The War fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 21:15
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Wheat Loaf posted:Which Baker story was it that Dicks wrote because Holmes (as script editor) asked him to, but as part of this good-natured revenge scheme for when Dicks (as script editor) asked Holmes to write a particular Pertwee story (which I believe turned out to be "The Time Warrior")? Pretty sure you're thinking of Horror Of Fang Rock here.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:21
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After The War posted:But then you'd have to have Yes, but having to step on tile 3 then 1 then 4 then 1 then 5 makes SOME sense. Burkion posted:
The radiation was a result of the damage to Rusty and it altered it's brain chemistry such that it became 'good', it's not a normal part of the suit/tank's function. And I saw the computer in that episode as more of a constant propaganda loop. Not inherently necessary for the Daleks to be what they are, but hey, may as well reinforce the party line if you can, right?
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Sep 30, 2015 22:38
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Yeah, when Terrance was script editor he had Holmes write The Time Warrior which wasn't the type of story Holmes usually wrote, and it worked out really well. Then for "revenge", when Holmes was script editor he had Terrance write a gothic horror like story in The Horror of Fang Rock, and it worked out really well. So the solution is clear, somehow capture Robert Holmes' ghost (use a frightened child as bait) and then have him and Terrance Dicks swap script editor/writer roles while forcing the other to produce stories outside of their comfort zone.
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Sep 30, 2015 22:40
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, when Terrance was script editor he had Holmes write The Time Warrior which wasn't the type of story Holmes usually wrote, and it worked out really well. Then for "revenge", when Holmes was script editor he had Terrance write a gothic horror like story in The Horror of Fang Rock, and it worked out really well. The only problem is that Robert Holmes is within the closet of every scared child and under the bed of many a wary youngster. How will we ever contain him now?
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Sep 30, 2015 22:42
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Clearly we need to design a capture device and make it Government policy to install it in every home in the world, then manifest the captured spirit into a single space/time and chain it to a writing desk: the Holmes Holder, Because there is a Holmes in every Home. In a shock twist, it turns out that WE are the villains in a Doctor Who story. A Doctor Who story penned by.... Robert Holmes! 
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Sep 30, 2015 22:46
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We don't actually know that every other poster in the thread ISN'T an exiled dictator or aristocrat who wears a creepy mask to hide their horrible, scarred visage. 
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Sep 30, 2015 22:54
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After The War posted:We don't actually know that every other poster in the thread ISN'T an exiled dictator or aristocrat who wears a creepy mask to hide their horrible, scarred visage. Ahem. You've MET me! Besides, bringing joy and happiness to millions of citizens can't ever be evil!!!
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Sep 30, 2015 22:56
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Jerusalem posted:So the solution is clear, somehow capture Robert Holmes' ghost (use a frightened child as bait) Ah, the Yewtree strategy.
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Sep 30, 2015 23:07
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Burkion posted:He was making a joke about Moffat literally pissing away a year of Doctor Who Wait, what did the year of specials have to do with Moffat pissing?
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Sep 30, 2015 23:33
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thexerox123 posted:Wait, what did the year of specials have to do with Moffat pissing? I could answer that but it'd go into RTD's personal life and that wouldn't be a very comfortable subject. Also the Year of Specials is not the lost year of Who, as the run time is more or less around the same as a regular year of Who. Season 7 however, adds up to a year less of Who than we should have gotten. The only thing extra from the show itself we got was Day of the Doctor
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Sep 30, 2015 23:44
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Burkion posted:The only thing extra from the show itself we got was Day of the Doctor To be honest, if it was an either/or choice I'd rather have Day of the Doctor.
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Oct 1, 2015 00:10
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CobiWann posted:Ahem. You've MET me! I might have... or I might have met one of the real CobiWann's android duplicates! It would explain how you can get those reviews up so fast! I really love Robert Holmes stories, repetition and all.
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Oct 1, 2015 00:28
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After The War posted:I might have... or I might have met one of the real CobiWann's android duplicates! It would explain how you can get those reviews up so fast! If I had a robot duplicate, do you think I'd choose to look like THIS?!?  No thanks, I'd choose to look like THIS. 
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Oct 1, 2015 01:12
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Jerusalem posted:To be honest, if it was an either/or choice I'd rather have Day of the Doctor. I have to agree. Especially because Day of the Doctor gave us Night of the Doctor.
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Oct 1, 2015 10:32
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I'd rather have had both tbh.
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Oct 1, 2015 11:13
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Burkion posted:I could answer that but it'd go into RTD's personal life and that wouldn't be a very comfortable subject. IMO one good episode on its own makes a better year than one good episode that's buried in garbage Tempo 119 fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 11:18
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On the other hand if you didn't like it it's not exactly ideal, is it?
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Oct 1, 2015 12:48
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Tempo 119 posted:IMO one good episode on its own makes a better year than one good episode that's buried in garbage Reach for the stars
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Oct 1, 2015 12:53
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Cerv posted:Reach for the stars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmYC7r4dViI
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Oct 1, 2015 13:10
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MrL_JaKiri posted:On the other hand if you didn't like it it's not exactly ideal, is it? Are you implying that you don't like Day of the Doctor? Either way, they shouldn't try to please everyone. Doctor Who is good because it's unpredictable. Also, if you had to choose between series 5 and more of series 7, would you really choose the latter? Are we even sure that these amazing finance people wouldn't have made series 5 look like series 4? Even Moffat could probably churn out hundreds of episodes if he went all Roger Corman on production values.
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Oct 1, 2015 13:21
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And More posted:Are you implying that you don't like Day of the Doctor? I don't And More posted:Also, if you had to choose between series 5 and more of series 7, would you really choose the latter? That's not the choice, but I liked both pretty similarly either way. I wasn't as enamoured of the angels two parter and the finale as some. And More posted:Are we even sure that these amazing finance people wouldn't have made series 5 look like series 4? If we're going completely off the rails, then how do we know that they wouldn't have secretly replaced the scripts Moffat wrote with rejected ideas from RTD fleshed out by a man they found living in a cave in Dorset? However, by the far the best part of this is the fact that your post can be summed up as "Paying large amounts for modern production values most important indicator of quality, says man with pixel art avatar of Tom Baker"
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Oct 1, 2015 13:38
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Having only six episodes of Doctor Who in 2012 wasn't ideal, says man with pixel art avatar of Sylvester McCoy.
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Oct 1, 2015 13:41
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FreezingInferno posted:Having only six episodes of Doctor Who in 2012 wasn't ideal, says man with pixel art avatar of Sylvester McCoy. That's just a statement of fact without irony though so it's not as good
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Oct 1, 2015 13:42
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They were six episodes of Steven Moffat's Doctor Who so it was actually six episodes too many
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Oct 1, 2015 13:43
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MrL_JaKiri posted:However, by the far the best part of this is the fact that your post can be summed up as "Paying large amounts for modern production values most important indicator of quality, says man with pixel art avatar of Tom Baker" Nah, I can deal with bad production values if it still ends up looking competent. Nicolas Winding Refn or Werner Herzog for example can make anything look good. Series 1-4 just mostly look like trash. It seems silly to me that you've constructed this entire scenario based on a bunch of people who got canned before the whole thing even started.
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Oct 1, 2015 13:46
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Tempo 119 posted:IMO one good episode on its own makes a better year than one good episode that's buried in garbage Series 7 had a fair number of episodes that are well-regarded: Town Called Mercy, Cold War, Crimson Horror, Rings of Akhaten (which I don't get, myself, although I thought Hide was decent, if rushed), so...  If you're looking for consistency, you might want to know a thing or two about Doctor Who... EDIT - Or consensus, of course. After The War fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 13:48
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I just need to say that anyone who seriously thinks that they are entitled to so many episodes of a show each yeah can just gently caress right off.
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Oct 1, 2015 13:52
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And More posted:Nah, I can deal with bad production values if it still ends up looking competent. Nicolas Winding Refn or Werner Herzog for example can make anything look good. Series 1-4 just mostly look like trash. You're being either extremely harsh to RTD's years or very generous to Moffat's years here. And have you actually seen any of the original run of Doctor Who? And More posted:It seems silly to me that you've constructed this entire scenario based on a bunch of people who got canned before the whole thing even started. Constructed what entire scenario?
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Oct 1, 2015 13:56
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BSam posted:I just need to say that anyone who seriously thinks that they are entitled to so many episodes of a show each yeah can just gently caress right off. I think more Who is better than no Who. What got me about the season 7 nonsense is that's the whole reason Time of the Doctor got to be such an unforgiving mess. Smith deserved a better exit than that. But at least he didn't bump his head on the console I suppose.
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Oct 1, 2015 13:58
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BSam posted:I just need to say that anyone who seriously thinks that they are entitled to so many episodes of a show each yeah can just gently caress right off. There's a difference between "being entitled to" and "were planning to make, but hosed up by mismanagement". I've not really ever been that bothered by the revival so it's not like I'm pissed off about Missing Out
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Oct 1, 2015 14:00
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MrL_JaKiri posted:You're being either extremely harsh to RTD's years or very generous to Moffat's years here. And have you actually seen any of the original run of Doctor Who? The black and white stuff holds up surprisingly well. Most of the later episodes look like Roger Corman flicks, though. Particularly Brain of Morbius. Tennant's run just looks bad to me, though. The lighting in particular is just horrible most of the time. quote:Constructed what entire scenario? The one where the finance people from series 4 would have totally saved Doctor Who series 7 part 3. Is there any real information on why they ran over budget? Like, I get that they probably shouldn't have filmed at Stonehenge, or had Bill Nighy play some dude in a museum. What are these expensive shooting locations in Prague all about?
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Oct 1, 2015 14:05
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And More posted:The black and white stuff holds up surprisingly well. Most of the later episodes look like Roger Corman flicks, though. Particularly Brain of Morbius. And does that make them bad necessarily? And More posted:The one where the finance people from series 4 would have totally saved Doctor Who series 7 part 3. For one thing, it's not a scenario I've constructed. For another, "Money people are fired by new boss, series runs overbudget causing issues, old money people get asked back again" doesn't really leave that much wiggle room. There's no real information out there on where the overspend was, it may not even have been directly related to anything that happened on screen. It doesn't look good on Moffat, though, nor does his shouting "You are erased from Doctor Who" to publicly fire Caroline Skinner, his third executive producer.
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Oct 1, 2015 14:17
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