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NihilCredo posted:Those seem more sensible figures for the feel you get about Hogwarts's size from the book. It also works out to ~1 in every 1000 people being a wizard once you factor in that a few thousand people died in the last war. Which goes a long way towards how Voldemort was able to exert such control for what he had.
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Sep 29, 2015 21:13
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NihilCredo posted:The house system is based on the real-life house system in British public schools, right? Does anybody know how large those tend to be, and if kids from different houses attend class together? I went to a British private school (not a public school or a state school, thanks confusing and archaic education system  ) and we had four houses (200ish people in each), but they didn't really matter for much. Classes were all mixed and it was really just about scoring points on sports day (we didn't get points taken off for bad behaviour or added for defeating dark wizards).
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Sep 29, 2015 21:33
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NihilCredo posted:Those seem more sensible figures for the feel you get about Hogwarts's size from the book. They had houses at the school I went to - but it was a sports day kind of thing. Nowhere near as important as Hogwarts houses seem to be. Basically all the students of a year group were in separate groups under a teacher for what I gather americans call home room (which would be your school house, but literally no one gave a poo poo. You were in Mr / Ms / Mrs Xs class) but then separated depending on whether you were in science 1, 2, 3 or so on for each different subject. Might be different in posh schools.
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Sep 29, 2015 21:35
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Qwertycoatl posted:Classes were all mixed and it was really just about scoring points on sports day. MrFlibble posted:They had houses at the school I went to - but it was a sports day kind of thing. That is disappointingly uncool for a country that has Shadow Lords in its government system.
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Sep 29, 2015 21:40
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Qwertycoatl posted:I went to a British private school (not a public school or a state school, thanks confusing and archaic education system So was defeating dark wizards just a required part of the curriculum, or something done as volunteer work to boost your credentials?
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Sep 29, 2015 21:40
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I guess you could also rationalise the low numbers of people attending Hogwarts due to the amount of wizards homeschooling their children. I think it was explained that Hogwarts.was only really mandatory for muggle born children.
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Sep 29, 2015 21:44
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Thanks to everyone who recommended Arithmancer. That definitely scratched my itch for Magical World meets  in all the way HPMoR failed to deliver.
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Sep 30, 2015 02:11
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EvilTaytoMan posted:I guess you could also rationalise the low numbers of people attending Hogwarts due to the amount of wizards homeschooling their children. I think it was explained that Hogwarts.was only really mandatory for muggle born children. Yeah it is mentioned in 7 that until then it wasn't mandatory to go there so some went abroad and some trained at home. Plus you know, 50 years of bloody civil war and terrorism
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Sep 30, 2015 03:51
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I'm pretty sure JK's said that Harry's year in particular (40 or so students) is tiny, because most people stopped having babies or fled during the war and Harry was basically conceived as it hit its peak years. I'd imagine the year levels two and three years down from Harry are enormous, though. Postwar baby boom. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 03:56
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Chapter 16: Lateral Thinking Part Seven quote:
At least Draco isn’t threatening to rape Hermione, unlike what he said about Luna during his tete-a-tete with Eliezarry on the train. I guess that’s a kind of progress. quote:
Canonically, aren’t the textbooks for the class assigned by the teacher for that class? I remember that coming up as a plot point in Book 2 (Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets), where all the textbooks for Defence Against the Dark Arts were useless books which had been written by Gilderoy Lockhart, the blowhard DaDa teacher for that year.
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Sep 30, 2015 04:35
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JosephWongKS posted:Canonically, aren’t the textbooks for the class assigned by the teacher for that class? I remember that coming up as a plot point in Book 2 (Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets), where all the textbooks for Defence Against the Dark Arts were useless books which had been written by Gilderoy Lockhart, the blowhard DaDa teacher for that year. Yep, but obviously Yudkowsky wanted to use the cliché of the unconventional teacher who comes in and tells the class to throw out their textbooks, "we won't be using those". It's usually a teacher who comes in part way through the term as a replacement who does it (explaining why they didn't just have the students not buy the textbooks to begin with), but that's clearly what he's going for.
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Sep 30, 2015 04:47
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MrFlibble posted:They had houses at the school I went to - but it was a sports day kind of thing. Nowhere near as important as Hogwarts houses seem to be. Basically all the students of a year group were in separate groups under a teacher for what I gather americans call home room (which would be your school house, but literally no one gave a poo poo. You were in Mr / Ms / Mrs Xs class) but then separated depending on whether you were in science 1, 2, 3 or so on for each different subject. I went to a very small (and cheap) public school (As I recall 80 or fewer people per year). Our classes were mostly mixed between houses, with the exception of a couple (Art and Religious Studies) which didn't have sets (i.e. ability groups) where we did do a house-one, house-two vs. house-three, house-four split. Otherwise it was pretty much the same as you, sports and music competitions were between houses, as were your tutor groups and once a week (or one week a month) we had a 'house' assembly. My brother's state school also had houses, and I think that these were actually used for determining classes in a similar way to Hogwarts. It was a much bigger school though - something like 1200 people total (across five years). For Hogwarts; it kinda makes sense that for the first year, if you have no other information about relative ability (I don't think that one canonically studies magic prior to their first year, so that's not unexpected) you may want to differentiate students in an arbitrary manner... presumably by keeping people in house-groups you can ensure that in any class people both have people they know (in their house), and new people to meet (in the other houses). The fact that the system continues into subsequent years (I think!) is a bit less explicable... then again as I recall classes become a less prominent part of the books in later years.
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Sep 30, 2015 15:50
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I don't know what the deal is with fanfics (okay I've only read this one and The Arithmancer) having the "villain" characters (Slytherin) saying mudblood all the time. It was a big deal in the third book when Malfoy said it, both for Harry, who had never heard of it, Hermione, who had never been called it, and Ron, who was about as enraged as you'd be hearing one of your friends called a friend of the family to their face. It was possibly even a big deal for Draco to say it at that point. It's like they want to rush all the character development (good and bad) the original had going for it.
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Oct 1, 2015 02:04
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Chapter 16: Lateral Thinking Part Eight quote:
This Quirrell completely deviates from canon Quirrell in personality and teaching style. Could this mean that he also deviate from canon Quirrell with regards to being possessed by Voldemort? quote:
If wizards can so easily kill anyone with a thought and a gesture, and teleport away from any danger they can’t destroy, why are they hiding from Muggles? At least in the canon series, it was explained that the Killing Curse is difficult to cast and Apparation comes with its own set of risks and hazards (e.g. leaving parts of your body behind).
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Oct 1, 2015 08:37
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Doesn't the actual Killing Curse have some enormous requirement to it and constitute an incredible moral transgression to even consider using? It's been a long time since I read the books, but I recall a lot of the forbidden spells being forbidden with good reason and nothing to rely on unless you were a really practiced Death Eater and a huge son of a bitch.
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Oct 1, 2015 08:43
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I see harry potter trolls have been replaced with DnD trolls.
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Oct 1, 2015 08:46
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I vaguely recall reading in the books that the reason wizards are in hiding isn't because they're afraid of muggles, it's because if they were out in the open muggles would expect wizards to do everything for them and possibly stop developing as a society or inventing things, some of which wizards have benefited from.
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Oct 1, 2015 08:50
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Night10194 posted:Doesn't the actual Killing Curse have some enormous requirement to it and constitute an incredible moral transgression to even consider using? It's been a long time since I read the books, but I recall a lot of the forbidden spells being forbidden with good reason and nothing to rely on unless you were a really practiced Death Eater and a huge son of a bitch. Yeah you have to have killing intent to use it, and it splits your soul into pieces as a result. It's how Voldemort was able to make the horcruxes.
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Oct 1, 2015 08:53
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EvilTaytoMan posted:Yeah you have to have killing intent to use it, and it splits your soul into pieces as a result. It's how Voldemort was able to make the horcruxes. That sounds real bad. So basically to use it you have to be evil and willing to gently caress your very being over?
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Oct 1, 2015 08:57
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Night10194 posted:That sounds real bad. So basically to use it you have to be evil and willing to gently caress your very being over? Not quite that bad (Aurors were allowed to use it at one point during the first war against Voldemort), but literally the only people ever seen casting the Killing Curse in the book are Death Eaters. Also it's an automatic life sentence in Azkaban if you use it on a person.
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Oct 1, 2015 09:15
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I think Quirrel is not being very subtle about being ole' Voldy this time. "Hey kids! You know what's the best defense against the Dark Arts? Constant use of the Dark Arts to solve all your problems!"
Night10194 fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 09:17
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Piell posted:Not quite that bad (Aurors were allowed to use it at one point during the first war against Voldemort), but literally the only people ever seen casting the Killing Curse in the book are Death Eaters. Also it's an automatic life sentence in Azkaban if you use it on a person.
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Oct 1, 2015 09:31
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Nessus posted:I think at one point in the movies Harry fires it off and misses, but this happens immediately after the murder of his godfather and surrogate parent so I don't think anyone held it against him, if they saw him. No, that was the Cruciatus, and it doesn't work very well.
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Oct 1, 2015 09:47
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Nessus posted:I think at one point in the movies Harry fires it off and misses, but this happens immediately after the murder of his godfather and surrogate parent so I don't think anyone held it against him, if they saw him. nah he fired off the torture curse, which is even worse
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Oct 1, 2015 09:48
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Cat Army 
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Replace Quirrel with Yud and the killing curse with a time-turner and you've essentially got a description of how MoR.Night10194 posted:Doesn't the actual Killing Curse have some enormous requirement to it and constitute an incredible moral transgression to even consider using? It's been a long time since I read the books, but I recall a lot of the forbidden spells being forbidden with good reason and nothing to rely on unless you were a really practiced Death Eater and a huge son of a bitch. The heroes use Imperio (body control / puppetering) a few times by the end of the series. It's mostly a sign that things have gotten serious, and that they're willing to cross lines they previously wouldn't have.
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Oct 1, 2015 09:57
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Night10194 posted:Doesn't the actual Killing Curse have some enormous requirement to it and constitute an incredible moral transgression to even consider using? It's been a long time since I read the books, but I recall a lot of the forbidden spells being forbidden with good reason and nothing to rely on unless you were a really practiced Death Eater and a huge son of a bitch. EvilTaytoMan posted:Yeah you have to have killing intent to use it, and it splits your soul into pieces as a result. It's how Voldemort was able to make the horcruxes.
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Oct 1, 2015 11:03
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Night10194 posted:Doesn't the actual Killing Curse have some enormous requirement to it and constitute an incredible moral transgression to even consider using? It's been a long time since I read the books, but I recall a lot of the forbidden spells being forbidden with good reason and nothing to rely on unless you were a really practiced Death Eater and a huge son of a bitch. The Killing Curse requires hatred and basically incredibly evil thoughts to pull off, not to mention substantial magical skill. Unless you're in a hatey-murderous state of mind all the time and have done a fair bit of Killing Curse practice it's much easier to blast with something else. Plus I'm pretty sure you can't cast Avada Kedavra silently - or if you can it's very difficult, most death eaters incant it - which gives the other wizard warning to get out of the way. Combat wizards are generally crazy good at flicking around with Apparition. Basically, it's pretty telling that even Death Eaters don't tend to use Avada Kedavra that often in combat unless the situation seems just right. Its big advantage is the ability to go through any magic block or shield, which is enough that they legalised Aurors using it against Death Eaters in the First Wizarding War, but outside open warfare it'd be pretty hard to come up with justifications. It's not the kind of thing most people should even know how to get into the right mental state to cast. The Iron Rose posted:nah he fired off the torture curse, which is even worse Yeah, he tries after Bellatrix kills Sirius, but he doesn't have the requisite amount of deep cruel hatred to pull it off, so he only makes her yelp. EvilTaytoMan posted:Yeah you have to have killing intent to use it, and it splits your soul into pieces as a result. It's how Voldemort was able to make the horcruxes. The splitting your soul part is actually a natural consequence of murder, in the books. To murder with intent damages your soul, no matter how it's done, and Voldemort was able to take advantage of that damage to cleave off bits and stuff them in horcruxes. Every murderer in the world has a damaged soul, it's just that Voldemort was the only one who figured out how to use it. He doesn't actually kill Myrtle with a Killing Curse, for example - he commands a basilisk to stare her to death - but he makes a horcrux with her. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 11:17
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MikeJF posted:The Killing Curse requires hatred and basically incredibly evil thoughts to pull off, not to mention substantial magical skill. Unless you're in a hatey-murderous state of mind all the time and have done a fair bit of Killing Curse practice it's much easier to blast with something else. Plus I'm pretty sure you can't cast Avada Kedavra silently - or if you can it's very difficult, most death eaters incant it - which gives the other wizard warning to get out of the way. Combat wizards are generally crazy good at flicking around with Apparition. Basically, it's pretty telling that even Death Eaters don't tend to use Avada Kedavra that often in combat unless the situation seems just right. Yeah I meant to clarify that the Killing Curse itself doesn't split your soul, just that Voldemort used it to make most of his Horcruxes that way. Also Harry did successfully use the Cruciatus Curse on a Death Eater in Hogwarts, he even thanks Bellatrix for the advice on how to do it.
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Oct 1, 2015 12:38
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EvilTaytoMan posted:Yeah you have to have killing intent to use it, and it splits your soul into pieces as a result. It's how Voldemort was able to make the horcruxes.  It's really stupid.
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Oct 1, 2015 12:40
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So I've started reading this thread, and boy is this a bad piece of work. Can't believe some people take this seriously.  Also IIRC making a horocrux itself involves a ritual taking advantage of the (minor) soulsplitting that happens with any murder; making the splitting a more controlled and intentional by effect.
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Oct 1, 2015 12:54
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mastajake posted:I don't know what the deal is with fanfics (okay I've only read this one and The Arithmancer) having the "villain" characters (Slytherin) saying mudblood all the time. It was a big deal in the third book when Malfoy said it, both for Harry, who had never heard of it, Hermione, who had never been called it, and Ron, who was about as enraged as you'd be hearing one of your friends called a friend of the family to their face. It was possibly even a big deal for Draco to say it at that point. It's like they want to rush all the character development (good and bad) the original had going for it. It's the characterization jags people go off on. It's easier to use slurs as a shorthand than actually develop the villain character and show the audience how and why he's such a motherfucker. It's the laziness that comes from underdeveloped writers.
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Oct 1, 2015 13:34
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Tiggum posted:Avadra Kedavra is hard to even justify as self defence, because if you can use it then you probably have non-lethal options available to you as well, given that you have a wand and can speak. It's impossible to justify for self defense because it requires proper intent to cast. "I want this person not to hurt me" or "I want to protect myself" wouldn't do it. It specifically requires a mindset of "I want the person I'm casting this on dead." Same with the other Unforgivable Curses.
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Oct 1, 2015 17:31
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Stroth posted:It's impossible to justify for self defense because it requires proper intent to cast. "I want this person not to hurt me" or "I want to protect myself" wouldn't do it. It specifically requires a mindset of "I want the person I'm casting this on dead." Same with the other Unforgivable Curses. This is also the reason people were so afraid of Voldemort. Sure if you hated a person enough, you could probably cast Avada Kadavra, but Voldemort threw those out like candy. He really hated everyone else that loving much. quote:Professor Quirrell was smiling rather grimly. "Your sad excuse for a third-year Defence textbook will suggest to you that you expose the mountain troll to sunlight, which will freeze it in place. This, my young apprentices, is the sort of useless knowledge you will never find in my lessons. You do not encounter mountain trolls in open daylight! The idea that you should use sunlight to stop them is the result of foolish textbook authors trying to show off their mastery of minutia at the expense of practicality. Just because there is a ridiculously obscure way of dealing with mountain trolls does not mean you should actually try to use it! Actually it does, because there is a spell called Lumos Solem that Hermione used in the first HP movie. It literally summons a ray of sunlight which heads to whatever the person points to. As for Harry using Crucio, this is what the wiki says: quote:Harry Potter was unable to effectively cast the Cruciatus Curse on Bellatrix Lestrange in 1996. Despite being furious with her for her murder of his godfather, he lacked the desire to cause pain for its own sake. Harry's "righteous anger" only inflicted a brief moment of pain on her.
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Oct 1, 2015 18:33
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Also, by the rules as given, wouldn't trolls kill themselves through self-transfigration?
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Oct 2, 2015 00:50
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I'm pretty sure Imperio doesn't need the same evil mindset as Crucio and Avada Kedavra. It's just a really difficult piece of magic and it's banned as gently caress because of its effect.
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Oct 2, 2015 00:54
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MikeJF posted:I'm pretty sure Imperio doesn't need the same evil mindset as Crucio and Avada Kedavra. It's just a really difficult piece of magic and it's banned as gently caress because of its effect. Yeah, that one seems to be banned more for "We literally have no way to tell friend from foe if this spell isn't regulated" reasons than "only unrepentantly evil motherfuckers would cast this" reasons.
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Oct 2, 2015 00:59
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I mean, you kind of do have to be an unrepentantly evil motherfucker to completely and utterly deprive someone of their free will such that you can impose your own on them.
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Oct 2, 2015 05:26
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Tunicate posted:Also, by the rules as given, wouldn't trolls kill themselves through self-transfigration? I'm not 100% sure if this has been layed out in the fic yet, but the rules as given are technically only for "Free transfiguration" which allows you to magically transform any given thing into anything you want, temporarily. There also exists specialized transfiguration charms which are much more limited but often can be used to ignore some of the drawbacks of transfiguration, they might actually be permanent, or be safe for living things, or whatnot. Presumably trolls are not doing free-transfiguration but some other form of transfiguration. McGonagall doesn't teach specialized charms first because she thinks they give bad habits that make you lovely at free transfiguration, students are better off with their first day of class being full of horror stories about what happens if you don't follow the rules.
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Oct 2, 2015 06:08
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"It works by these rules except for when it doesn't."
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Oct 2, 2015 09:29
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reignonyourparade posted:I'm not 100% sure if this has been layed out in the fic yet, but the rules as given are technically only for "Free transfiguration" which allows you to magically transform any given thing into anything you want, temporarily. There also exists specialized transfiguration charms which are much more limited but often can be used to ignore some of the drawbacks of transfiguration, they might actually be permanent, or be safe for living things, or whatnot. Presumably trolls are not doing free-transfiguration but some other form of transfiguration. McGonagall doesn't teach specialized charms first because she thinks they give bad habits that make you lovely at free transfiguration, students are better off with their first day of class being full of horror stories about what happens if you don't follow the rules. An even easier explanation - free transfig is dangerous in the same way falling down is - it isn't the fall itself that kills you, it's the stop. The troll's version NEVER stops. Therefore it never has to deal with the whole untransfiguration debacle at all.
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