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Wiz posted:Dev diary about Estates is up. Does every country have access to the estates? Or is it only Muslim, Western and Eastern European tech countries?
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Oct 1, 2015 11:39
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| # ? May 12, 2024 23:01 |
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Hello everybody and welcome to the traditional 'omg MP is so good you guys' weekly post: Since 1.13 MP game stability has been vastly improved: we had maybe one out of sync error this entire session, compared to 8 or so before the update. Grats to Paradox for this. A horrific hellwar dragged in literally every human player over some HRE nonsense: with the dust settling, Prussia is proudly independent of the HRE and Poland has taken Constantinople. I don't see either of these being issues down the road.  We are looking for subs this week, which is a great way to get your feet wet in the constant whirling backstabbery of EU MP. We're after subs for France, Spain and Malaya this week. You can add me (Obliterati) on Steam or just post in the PGS thread to ask.
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Oct 1, 2015 11:48
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Chipp Zanuff posted:Does every country have access to the estates? Or is it only Muslim, Western and Eastern European tech countries? Almost every country.
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Oct 1, 2015 12:24
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Wiz posted:Dev diary about Estates is up. nice, estates seems like a lot of fun.
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Oct 1, 2015 12:35
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Gort posted:Yeah, I see deals like this being offered to me all the time when I use the "Cleansing of Heresy" CB. Yes, I declared a holy war on you and occupied half your nation because I wanted 10% of your income and fifty bucks. I don't know why but AI seems to think that giving you war reparation + a paltry amount of cash is enough for pretty much anything. I was kicking the Pope's rear end left and right, his fleets/troops/manpower annihilated, occupied all but one of his provinces (Avignon) and made his allies peace out, and still he kept pestering me with "peace offers" of war reparations + 100 ducats every month while I was waiting to finish the last siege for 100% warscore. Sorry dude I really need Rome to become Italy, you can keep your money and use it to buy yourself a new church in Avignon or whatever. Also it's not just the Pope, most enemies when losing badly still keep trying to peace out for a pittance... I guess there's something wonky in the AI, they must think they still have a chance even when it's clearly not the case.
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Oct 1, 2015 12:44
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I hope that the estates and their dynamics change over time and government form, since that could add some depth to the late period of eu4 and make the revolutionary period more fun.
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Oct 1, 2015 13:26
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It looks exactly like merchant republic factions. And the bonuses look just as ignorable
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Oct 1, 2015 13:59
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Average Bear posted:It looks exactly like merchant republic factions. And the bonuses look just as ignorable Could be worse, what if it looked like Divine Wind factions?
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Oct 1, 2015 14:14
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Average Bear posted:It looks exactly like merchant republic factions. And the bonuses look just as ignorable I can see how you would make that assumption if you missed the fact that the dev diary also contained text. Easy mistake, really.
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Oct 1, 2015 14:32
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Average Bear posted:It looks exactly like merchant republic factions. And the bonuses look just as ignorable Estates look to be much more consequential to your country than factions ever did, even if you ignore that the bonii scale with loyalty/influence.
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Oct 1, 2015 14:34
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TorakFade posted:I don't know why but AI seems to think that giving you war reparation + a paltry amount of cash is enough for pretty much anything. It's also that way for trying to negotiate terms. Taking the computer's suggestion for a win is like one province (if you're lucky) + reparations + ducats, while the AI is allowed to set non-negotiable war demands and will therefore extract large numbers of land concessions, returned cores, and released nations for even a Basically, the UI punishes people for trusting it. This doesn't matter for people who post in this thread and each have a minimum of 9001 hours of play time but for new players who might need to actually trust the game systems to relay useful information, eu4 is a game that actively plots against them.
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Oct 1, 2015 14:34
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YF-23 posted:bonii I will fight you
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Oct 1, 2015 14:51
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Tahirovic posted:I would say it's actually based on development. They could fix it with ticking warscore going high enough and it ticks while the CN's capital isn't occupied by their overlord. Wouldn't the CN just move their capital then? That's what happened in the AWI at least.
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Oct 1, 2015 14:52
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Wiz posted:I can see how you would make that assumption if you missed the fact that the dev diary also contained text. As much as I like the concept it looks like its going to be really annoying to manage so here's hoping it works out well
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Oct 1, 2015 15:19
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Is there any point to development except as a dumping ground for monarch points when you max out? I tried a game as Bavaria, who are basically the best country I could think of to maximise development (all grass/farmlands, western tech, small, in the HRE so they're defended somewhat, national idea that gives a development discount) and it still feels like you get a tiny fraction of the return for your monarch points compared to what conquest gives you. I suppose it's not risky, but it's not at all rewarding either. I haven't played past 1500 yet, so maybe once I get past the initial teching-up stage and have Economic ideas maxed out it'll start coming together...
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Oct 1, 2015 15:22
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Gort posted:Is there any point to development except as a dumping ground for monarch points when you max out? I tried a game as Bavaria, who are basically the best country I could think of to maximise development (all grass/farmlands, western tech, small, in the HRE so they're defended somewhat, national idea that gives a development discount) and it still feels like you get a tiny fraction of the return for your monarch points compared to what conquest gives you. I suppose it's not risky, but it's not at all rewarding either. That's my experience too. I hardly use it except on gold provinces and whenever I need to unlock another building slot or very late game, when MPs are pilling up. I keep thinking that development should cost gold instead of MP, it makes a lot more sense in my head, since, like I understand, it is supposed to represent the province material infrastructure level or something like that. Perhaps a bit of both, some gold and some MP (lot less than what it costs now).
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Oct 1, 2015 15:33
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Gort posted:Is there any point to development except as a dumping ground for monarch points when you max out? I tried a game as Bavaria, who are basically the best country I could think of to maximise development (all grass/farmlands, western tech, small, in the HRE so they're defended somewhat, national idea that gives a development discount) and it still feels like you get a tiny fraction of the return for your monarch points compared to what conquest gives you. I suppose it's not risky, but it's not at all rewarding either. Development is mostly a dumping ground for monarch points near the MP limit, but there's a lot of cases where it is more useful in general. Unlocking a building slot if you're near that, pushing a culture to over the accepted culture entry threshold, keeping it above the accepted culture exit threshold. If you're small and your provinces aren't worth poo poo-all it can help bring you to parity with other states in the neighbourhood. High-value goods are quite worth putting points into production development. Gold producing provinces should always be built up to production 10. Between universities, economic ideas, and the discount to development you get from tech you can make development dirty cheap too. DStecks posted:I will fight you Gladlii
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Oct 1, 2015 15:36
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DStecks posted:I will fight you YF-23 posted:Gladlii Hey, France and Spain need subs this week!
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Oct 1, 2015 15:40
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Colonial Air Force posted:Wouldn't the CN just move their capital then? That's what happened in the AWI at least. We're talking about a game, and you can't move capital while at war in EU4. I think the capital of a CN being free would represent it's power and independence while showing how powerless it's overlord is.
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Oct 1, 2015 15:41
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Gort posted:I suppose it's not risky, but it's not at all rewarding either. Yeah, it is balanced that way. Essentially zero risk but lower return. The other thing is that development does get much cheaper later in the game (but you then of course have less time to benefit from the improvements). Wiz posted:Dev diary about Estates is up. That does look really cool. I also like the fact that it looks like you will have different estates depending on your location/landscape. Will you also have different estates depending on religion/culture? The social setups in Japan for example were rather different for example. I also presume that the estates in a republic will be a bit different from the ones in a monarchy. I could also imagine that it could be used to furtherr flesh out the social upheaval that occurs during major changes of government form or religion. You might be left with estates that you strengthened previously which cannot actually be satisfied under the new form of government and hence have to be reduced in power and beaten back over time (unless they manage a successful "reactionary" uprising). Also, how will this interact with the various existing faction systems? Will the strength of certain estates then also impact the strength of various factions? Can estates dynamically arise and vanish within a country? Any thoughts on adding Jannissaries and Mamluks as estates or would these not be a good fit with the system in your opinion? Anyway, I'm one of the people who has always been very leery of adding too much internal development stuff to EU but this looks like a very flexible and powerful system out of which the social tensions of the day can arise in a pretty natural manner. Munin fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 15:42
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Munin posted:The other thing is that development does get much cheaper later in the game (but you then of course have less time to benefit from the improvements). So does conquest, so it's a wash
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Oct 1, 2015 15:55
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Wiz posted:Dev diary about Estates is up. Ubik is spinning in his cell.
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Oct 1, 2015 15:59
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As Mutapa, should I stay Animist or convert to Sunni? Or should I wait and convert to Christianity when I westernise?
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Oct 1, 2015 16:07
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Oh, the post I was drafting somehow got posted when my browser crashed. How odd. Some bits may have been missing from it. I thought I was getting back to the reply screen when I restarted the browser but it looks like it went straight to edit.Gort posted:So does conquest, so it's a wash True.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:16
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Wiz posted:Dev diary about Estates is up. Hey this looks familiar 
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Oct 1, 2015 16:17
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I hope you Paradox people redo the Espionage ideas while you're at it. Perhaps remake some of them to be more powerful during wars (increase war exhaustion for enemy? more expensive mercs?) and try to synergize them with the estates function (bribe estates?). As it is right now, it's pretty much just useful in mp.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:30
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Obliterati posted:Hey, France and Spain need subs this week! My timezone is not entirely conductive for the game hours (UTC+2), plus I could well be doing stuff with friends on those days. I'm not saying it would be impossible for me to participate but I cannot guarantee anything so I can't really say I'll jump in either.
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Oct 1, 2015 16:40
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I saw the counters for the armies are different past few diaries, I'm guessing that armies are getting tweaked in some way?
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Oct 1, 2015 17:27
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Wiz posted:Dev diary about Estates is up. Looks dope. Increases my hopes that a tentpole feature for the new DLC will be a liberal revolution DHE in the lategame.
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Oct 1, 2015 17:55
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I hope Prussia gets Junkers! How do estates scale to really large empires? Once you have a Eurasiafrica-spanning empire it could get pretty tedious. Maybe estates -> factions once you eclipse a certain base tax? That could be a fun way to model the Ottomans actually. Janissaries could be an amazing estate but a miserable faction so once the Ottomans get really large things start to turn against them. e: this is too off-the-cuff. I really like estates. I especially like the risk/reward balance going on - strong estates help or hinder you greatly, whereas weak estates are less of a benefit and less of a liability. It allows for "go for broke" strategies to enable underdogs to overperform if they get lucky, which I think is a crucial part of balancing a game full of large and small powers. I am very interested in seeing what some of the interactions yield. It would ~blow my mind~ if a country could call a diet of its nobles to try to raise revenues and have its nobles demand a constitutional monarchy in exchange. In the appropriate time period, tech level, etc. of course. Dibujante fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 18:02
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Wow this looks like it has a whole ton of potential. I'm really glad there's something else major that's interacting with autonomy now too.
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Oct 1, 2015 18:05
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Wiz posted:Dev diary about Estates is up. These looks sweet, but I worry that the best way to placate your Estates will be to just always be conquering and assigning them new provinces. So they just become bonuses for those countries that are already succeeding, rather than slowing them down at all. Gort posted:Is there any point to development except as a dumping ground for monarch points when you max out? I tried a game as Bavaria, who are basically the best country I could think of to maximise development (all grass/farmlands, western tech, small, in the HRE so they're defended somewhat, national idea that gives a development discount) and it still feels like you get a tiny fraction of the return for your monarch points compared to what conquest gives you. I suppose it's not risky, but it's not at all rewarding either. It's mostly a dumping ground. But you can't really get a feel for it in just the opening 50 years either. Try playing Great Britain and playing only a colonial game. You'll have so many points to bandy about that you'll just be pouring development into your provinces, and it'll let you punch way above what you could do pre-CS. The thing that development never gives you though is strategic depth, and that's pretty important in this game.
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Oct 1, 2015 18:25
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:These looks sweet, but I worry that the best way to placate your Estates will be to just always be conquering and assigning them new provinces. So they just become bonuses for those countries that are already succeeding, rather than slowing them down at all. Sounds pretty sweet, kind of like how Animism gives you stability hits if you don't go conquering. Bring it on.
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Oct 1, 2015 18:57
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At first I rolled my eyes since Estates looked like they would just be buffs that you maxed out and didn't cared about afterwards, but after I finished reading I became extremely excited for this new DLC. It sounds like a really amazing mechanic, especially if it results in situations where you have to balance your own desires with what the estates want. I'm also excited for the new culture stuff, because from the sounds of it they're going to be changing it to something that's quite a bit deeper than what it is currently. (IE: A modifier which pretty much just determines how many provinces will get rebels and the paint job of the tag those rebels want to make.)
VerdantSquire fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Oct 1, 2015 |
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Oct 1, 2015 19:13
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DStecks posted:I will fight you Seriously. Don't use that loving word. You are not doing it right.
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Oct 1, 2015 19:20
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PittTheElder posted:These looks sweet, but I worry that the best way to placate your Estates will be to just always be conquering and assigning them new provinces. So they just become bonuses for those countries that are already succeeding, rather than slowing them down at all. I don't think that should be too much of a problem. It will be a touch of a zero sum game from what I can see. Basically, giving all the new territory to one faction would please them but potentially piss off others. The main advantage of growing in that particular framework would be the ability to change the balance the power without taking away territory from other factions and hence pissing them off by doing that. Rather than big and growing countries I was just wondering how OPMs or very small countries would function given how assigning territory would be a pretty all or nothing thing for them. I would presume that for them their estates would be more even than territory assignment driven.
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Oct 1, 2015 19:53
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Oh hey hello gorgeous, that dark green suits you much better than Florentine red. Do I hear Spain crying? I lured their whole army into Sardinia, then proceeded to chase their fleet out of the Mediterranean, so their army couldn't come back to fight me, and sieged the poo poo out of them. Grabbed Sicily in one go and peaced them out, then it was a piece of cake to beat Naples and steal all their candy. Now Naples resides in Corfu (it's kind of a tradition to kick my enemies in the Balkans), I am overextended to hell and will have to deal with lots of revolts + maybe a coalition or two, but I'm defensive, quantity idea Italy and with the biggest army in the whole loving world  noooow I have another idea group to choose (already have quantity-defensive-diplo), torn between an admin one, possibly humanist, or another diplomatic - influence comes to mind for the excellent synergy with Italian ideas, like better relation over time and unjustified demands. I want it all, and I want it... as soon as AE ticks down, as usual! Dear Lord I'm having a TON of fun with this game 
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Oct 1, 2015 21:20
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TorakFade posted:Oh hey hello gorgeous, that dark green suits you much better than Florentine red. If you get Innovative + Quality you can stack +30% Infantry combat (10% from quality idea, 20% from policy) on top of your already formidable infantry and have Prussian-Tier supermen
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Oct 1, 2015 21:46
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420 Gank Mid posted:If you get Innovative + Quality you can stack +30% Infantry combat (10% from quality idea, 20% from policy) on top of your already formidable infantry and have Prussian-Tier supermen Keep in mind however Innovative as an idea group is kinda crap, but you probably don't need Econ for cash or anything so it's a decent option. Either Quality or Offensive would be great picks but you can't take a third military idea yet. You're approaching the latter half of the game and the +20% siege ability from Offensive will become extremely valuable against high-level late-game forts. If the biggest thing holding you back is AE, Influence is your best bet for helping with that. Humanist does have the Better Relations but it's mostly for keeping your realm chill and stable, you're not very multicultural so won't benefit a ton from Humanist.
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Oct 1, 2015 21:56
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I don't really see from the dev diary how estates will actually make your life more difficult, but obviously you don't get a proper picture from a short introduction to a game concept. I really hope you can't just keep conquering and handing out new provinces to the estates to keep them happy.
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Oct 1, 2015 21:57
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