Metal Gear Solid V TPP SPOILER/PLOT THREAD - this thread has spoilers

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Metal Gear Solid V TPP SPOILER/PLOT THREAD - this thread has spoilers

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Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Shoren posted:

So if I'm sick of seeing helmets everywhere I can put on the chicken hat and finish a few missions to reset preparedness?

Yeah if you wear the Chicken Hat enough and complete/abort missions enough all prep should drop to 0 except Combat and Stealth which seem to bottom out at white boxes, at least at my point in the game.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 04:43

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# ? May 30, 2024 06:13

Feels Villeneuve: Oct 7, 2007; Setter is Better.

Can't you also basically get rid of helmets by using a ton of sleeping gas and forcing enemies to use gas masks?

# ? Oct 1, 2015 04:47

Shoren: Apr 6, 2011; victoria concordia crescit

Nakar posted:

Yeah if you wear the Chicken Hat enough and complete/abort missions enough all prep should drop to 0 except Combat and Stealth which seem to bottom out at white boxes, at least at my point in the game.

That's awesome! I thought once guards started with helmets and such that there was no way to go back except temporarily with the combat deployments.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 04:48

Tobaccrow: Jan 21, 2008; Don't smoke, kids... Unless you have to.

Snak posted:

This makes sense also, since Fulton preparedness is basically "how good enemies are at shooting baloons" and nothing else. They probably didn't want guys to prioritize shooting at the wormhole, so...

I'm not sure, but it seems to affect how likely they are to hear it as well.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 04:49

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

Snak posted:

But the fact that the game has been out a month and we're still arguing about how to save our resources and how checkpoints work is the problem.

People are still arguing about this?

Call in a supply drop for a new weapon. Jump into the green box.

That usually triggers a hard save for me.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 04:53

ChaosArgate: Oct 10, 2012; Why does everyone think I'm going to get in trouble?

So I had a weird bout of insomnia a few nights ago and I ended up spending it by writing a big analysis on Quiet and how she ties into some of the themes of the game. I've had a few people read it and they all thought it was a well written piece, so I figured it was worth letting others take a look too. Here it is.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 04:58

Snak: Oct 10, 2005; I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.; Grimey Drawer

How do you get the blueprint on The War Economy? it says it's carried by the gunship, but shooting it down does not seem to be the answer...
edit: I have never seen the wreckage of a downed helicopter. Doesn't it just fade out immediately?

# ? Oct 1, 2015 05:00

Feels Villeneuve: Oct 7, 2007; Setter is Better.

Snak posted:

How do you get the blueprint on The War Economy? it says it's carried by the gunship, but shooting it down does not seem to be the answer...
edit: I have never seen the wreckage of a downed helicopter. Doesn't it just fade out immediately?

Supposedly it's by shooting it down. Check the area carefully, I guess?

# ? Oct 1, 2015 05:01

Domattee: Mar 5, 2012

iirc it doesn't leave a wreckage, the blueprint just drops in the area.
You might also have picked up that particular blueprint earlier, it can spawn in the wild too.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 05:03

Castor Poe: Jul 19, 2010; Jar Jar is the key to all of this.

Ekusukariba posted:

Lies, everyone knows Kojima made it true to the canon mg1 ending, its FOUR rockets

The other three were hallucinations. :smug:

Nakar posted:

Yeah if you wear the Chicken Hat enough and complete/abort missions enough all prep should drop to 0 except Combat and Stealth which seem to bottom out at white boxes, at least at my point in the game.

Interesting. Does it decrease battle prep in every base on the map or just the one you're in?

# ? Oct 1, 2015 05:05

Grizzled Patriarch: Mar 27, 2014; These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.

Best bet is to rush to the heliport with stealth camo and either blow it up as it lands or when it comes to pick the targets up. It will leave the blueprint right there on the helipad that way.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 05:07

Smirking_Serpent: Aug 27, 2009

Snak posted:

How do you get the blueprint on The War Economy? it says it's carried by the gunship, but shooting it down does not seem to be the answer...

You do shoot it down. The wreckage vanishes instantly after you kill it, so you want dash over to where it hit asap or else you'll have to search around with NVG. I recommend trying to kill it on the helipad.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 05:08

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Did some more camo testing, this time with fully clean files to make sure nothing was interfering. Used the same ol' bridge at Da Shago Kallei with Stealth and Night Ops readiness at max, but Sniper Rifles, NVG, and Flashlights disabled by dispatch missions.

WALKING/RUNNING/SPRINTING: Detected at 70m regardless of camo during the day and 35m regardless of camo at night. Clouds didn't change this. Items in the Back slot (rocket launcher and shield) didn't change it either.
CROUCHING: Detected at between 62-68m with the wrong camos and 45m with the right camo during the day; interestingly, with cloud cover the wrong camos were also detected at 45m (but the right camo did not get any better). At night I was detected at 35m with the wrong camo and 15m with the right camo; cloud cover did nothing at night.
CRAWLING: Detected at 20m during the day regardless of camo and weather, 15m at night regardless of weather.
CARDBOARD BOX: Detected at 55m by day in the wrong box camo and 45m in the right box camo. At night, all boxes were detected at 35m. It didn't seem to matter how fast I was moving. I forgot to test crawling in a box but I believe it's the same.

So as far as I can tell camo doesn't matter unless you're crouchwalking, but it has some pretty serious advantages if you're wearing the right kind. By day it cuts enemy detection by a whopping 25m at max readiness, and at night it decreases their detection radius to the same as if you were crawling. Using a cardboard box is pointless at night, but by day using any box while wearing the wrong camo for a surface gives you an extra 10m or so of leeway, and using the matching box for the surface you're on makes it as if you're wearing the right camo. Using a girl/anime box does give you an out if an enemy spots you as they'll come over to gawk, but using a top poster means you have to stand up which could attract the attention of people at greater distances. Still, it's interesting that matching boxes by day is as good as regular camo, as that gives a strong incentive to use the Sneaking Suit and compensate for camo with boxes. You can only wear one camo type on say Pitch Dark, forcing you to choose between Square and Golden Tiger; going with a Sneaking Suit and the Soil and Urban boxes instead gives you all the advantages of both camos and the sound reduction of the Sneaking Suit.

The one thing I'm not sure about is detection radius while crouching in the day. It seemed to vary slightly, between 62-68m, but it wasn't terribly consistent. I guess it depends on the enemy's attentions and you crouchwalk just fast enough that you may be somewhere in that range when they notice you, but they will definitely see you within 60m and it's not really safe to be inside 70m unless you have the proper camo.

Castor Poe posted:

Interesting. Does it decrease battle prep in every base on the map or just the one you're in?

It's pretty much universal. It might differ between Afghanistan and Africa? But it's across the whole map regardless of where and when. However it only changes when you return to the ACC, so you can do whatever you want during a deployment and they won't counter it until you come back again.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 05:20

Colapops: Nov 21, 2007

Alain Post posted:

Can't you also basically get rid of helmets by using a ton of sleeping gas and forcing enemies to use gas masks?

I think at maximum gas readiness, 75% of soldiers will have gas masks. 1/4th is better than ~everyone~ but yeah.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 05:33

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Not sure what the priority is for gas masks, NVG, and helmets, but I think masks/NVG take priority over helmets. However as far as I can tell the same guys at the same outposts are equipped with certain gear. Like if I leave everything enabled the two guys at the bridge at Da Shago Kallei are always a guy on the left with regular armor, a helmet, and a sniper rifle, and the guy on the right has body armor and NVG. When Sniper Rifles are disabled the guy on the left always has a shotgun, but the guy on the right doesn't. So it may be that only certain guys get NVG/masks and everybody else gets helmets. Still, it cuts down on the number of guys with head protection, and gas masks and NVG are worthless if you're not using gas or attacking at night.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 05:36

Shoren: Apr 6, 2011; victoria concordia crescit

Does the effectiveness of camo depend on what you're standing on or what you're in front of? Like if you're standing on red soil in front of a rocky wall would golden tiger or regular tiger stripe be more effective?

# ? Oct 1, 2015 06:00

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Shoren posted:

Does the effectiveness of camo depend on what you're standing on or what you're in front of? Like if you're standing on red soil in front of a rocky wall would golden tiger or regular tiger stripe be more effective?

I'm pretty sure it's exclusively the terrain you're standing on. You don't seem to blend in any better walking next to a concrete wall vs. walking across a completely open concrete bridge (although you get better camo index for being pressed against cover).

More testing:

CARDBOARD BOX STANDING/CRAWLING: Standing in a cardboard box is no more useful than standing normally; you'll be noticed at 70m by day and 35m by night. Crawling in a box gets you detected at 45m, which is always worse than crawling without a box; by night it's 35m same as all other nighttime box states and the same as standing, so it's not really worth it except perhaps to sit still.
DRIVING A TRUCK: Using a Diamond Dogs truck, I was noticed by day at 60m when driving slow and 45m when driving fast (and they alerted at 40m); wearing Splitter, which is supposed to be the right camo for driving, did nothing. At night a slow truck was noticed at 30m and a fast truck at 35m; however, when using Splitter and driving slow I wasn't noticed in a truck until 15m! Not sure if using an enemy truck gives better results, but Splitter doesn't seem especially useful compared to hiding in the seat.
D-HORSE: When leaning on D-Horse away from the enemy and trotting at normal speed, they'll see him at 20m during the day and 15m at night, but even if you pass right by them they don't seem to alert and they tend to go search where they first saw D-Horse and not where he's gone to since. Essentially, D-Horse can ride right by a guard and as long as nobody can see you hanging from the other side it's a perfect disguise other than the guard getting alert for a little bit. When upright on D-Horse you'll be noticed at 70m/35m depending on time of day, just the same as standing (and regardless of camo).
D-WALKER: By day you'll be seen between 65-70m, and at night around 50-55m. It doesn't seem to matter what movement state D-Walker is in; that only appears to affect the amount of sound it makes. D-Walker moves so quickly, however, that you may be much closer to the enemy before they really notice you there, so much so that they'll usually alert as soon as they notice D-Walker. No camo seemed to help hide on D-Walker, probably because it's D-Walker they see and not you. I couldn't test it perfectly but it appears that they can spot you more easily if you turn D-Walker away from them, which kinda makes sense.

EDIT: Based on videos I've seen, I think D-Horse while against a map boundary wall is essentially perfect. The enemy can't see you because you've got a wall and D-Horse on either side, and although they can notice D-Horse they won't do anything more than walk over to where he sorta was a few seconds ago, and you'll be long gone by then. I've seen it used on Hellbound to just ride along the left wall of the Soviet Base Camp directly to Huey's hangar and on Where Do The Bees Sleep? to ride through the area outside the ruins. You'll get notice blips but that's all.

Nakar fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Oct 1, 2015

# ? Oct 1, 2015 06:45

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

What about camo on the box?

# ? Oct 1, 2015 06:49

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

SynthOrange posted:

What about camo on the box?

Only matters if you're crouchwalking during the day. At night camo on the box doesn't seem to matter at all, it's always 35m. By day the "wrong" camo on a box is seen at 55m and the "right" camo is seen at 45m. Standing or crawling by day it doesn't matter what the camo is. Makes sense for standing, since the camo is on the side of the box and when standing you're showing the top.

Camo on a box also appears to somewhat influence whether the enemy will care about it when they see a stationary box, and how they'll react when they inspect it.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 06:53

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

Neat. Did you do testing on the box posters as well? I keep getting inconsistent results.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 06:55

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Haven't tested posters. I think you have to be at a range where you'd be seen already, and there's a difference between them seeing the poster right away and seeing you and then seeing the poster. Best results for the girl/anime posters is that the enemy see you with the poster already facing them, but I think for the saluting soldier it's better to stand only after they spot you.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 07:01

Gortarius: Jun 6, 2013; idiot

What language is "Nzo ya badiabulu"? Kikongo?

Just interested because the way Kaz says it in the game.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 12:37

Grizzled Patriarch: Mar 27, 2014; These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.

Gortarius posted:

What language is "Nzo ya badiabulu"? Kikongo?

Just interested because the way Kaz says it in the game.

Kikongo, yeah.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 13:35

RatHat: Dec 31, 2007; A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

Is there a specific reason the parasites don't react to Navajo? Or is it just that there was no Navajo parasite made for whatever reason?

# ? Oct 1, 2015 15:30

Lunchmeat Larry: Nov 3, 2012

RatHat posted:

Is there a specific reason the parasites don't react to Navajo? Or is it just that there was no Navajo parasite made for whatever reason?

It's one of the most unique and least-spoken languages in the world so I guess it was harder to pin down?

# ? Oct 1, 2015 15:35

Paul Zuvella: Dec 7, 2011

blackguy32 posted:

The checkpoint system is really only ever a problem in that one mission simply because there are no checkpoints. Everything else, I knew how to game the checkpoint system to where it didn't really matter.

The checkpoint system is absolutely a huge issue. I can't count the number of times it checkpointed me right before calling in a drop for a new suppressor, or a sniper rifle and every single time I reset I had to re call it in.

It's crap.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 15:36

RatHat: Dec 31, 2007; A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

Lunchmeat Larry posted:

It's one of the most unique and least-spoken languages in the world so I guess it was harder to pin down?

I dunno, there are 170k people in the world who speak it. That's quite a lot.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 15:55

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Paul Zuvella posted:

The checkpoint system is absolutely a huge issue. I can't count the number of times it checkpointed me right before calling in a drop for a new suppressor, or a sniper rifle and every single time I reset I had to re call it in.

Alternately:

The fact that it doesn't checkpoint you before you go into a base is a positive because it doesn't penalize you if you decide to change tactics after failures. It's utterly trivial to lock in a loadout before going into a place if you really want (just grab some flowers and walk a few feet) but if you decided after five failed attempts that you'd rather call in different equipment you're not stuck eating the cost for the equipment you ended up not needing.

What checkpoint system would you want in this game? Do you want it to hard-save your location every time you change equipment? Don't you think that would get more frustrating if you called it in during a boss fight and suddenly your checkpoint was locked to when you grabbed a new rocket launcher right before Metal Gear was about to hit you with five missiles?

# ? Oct 1, 2015 16:00

Mutant Headcrab: May 14, 2007

RatHat posted:

I dunno, there are 170k people in the world who speak it. That's quite a lot.

Considering that most languages have speakers number in the millions, out of a global population that numbers in the billions, it really isn't all that many.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 16:08

RatHat: Dec 31, 2007; A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

Mutant Headcrab posted:

Considering that most languages have speakers number in the millions, out of a global population that numbers in the billions, it really isn't all that many.

There are like hundreds of endangered languages that have less than 1000 speakers though.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 16:17

SPACE HOMOS: Jan 12, 2005

I think Kojima wanted him to be Navajo (DINE!!!) so that it would be related to WW2 / nuclear bomb testing. There are rarer languages and the fact that over time the parasite would mutate to be more susceptible to any language. One could infer from the tape where they explain how to make a Portuguese parasite from the Spanish one that this could be extended to any language.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 16:22

Speedball: Apr 15, 2008

Yeah, but basically... Code Talker bred the language parasites, he made sure there are none that speak his home language.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 16:23

Paul Zuvella: Dec 7, 2011

RatHat posted:

There are like hundreds of endangered languages that have less than 1000 speakers though.

it's spoken by .0023% of the world.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 16:24

Gyro Zeppeli: Jul 19, 2012; sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

SPACE HOMOS posted:

I think Kojima wanted him to be Navajo (DINE!!!) so that it would be related to WW2 / nuclear bomb testing. There are rarer languages and the fact that over time the parasite would mutate to be more susceptible to any language. One could infer from the tape where they explain how to make a Portuguese parasite from the Spanish one that this could be extended to any language.

Plus Code talkers in real life are traditionally Navajo speakers.

Gyro Zeppeli fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Oct 1, 2015

# ? Oct 1, 2015 16:24

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Code Talker actually mentions the code talkers in a tape. Kaz asks if he was one and he points out he was too old... but then he does totally admit that he helped the government set up the program, so he's still taking credit for it.

He probably just didn't breed any Navajo parasites by design, because he's dumb enough to create language-murder parasites but not quite dumb enough to create ones that speak his own language. Skull Face could probably have created a Navajo strain, but to do it he'd have probably needed a bunch of work done because I imagine there weren't a huge number of recordings of spoken Navajo in 1984 for him to utilize. Remember the stuff he uses to force exposure in the parasites includes a ton of junk recordings: news reports, TV commercials, etc. There's not a lot of that in Navajo.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 16:36

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

ImpAtom posted:

Alternately:

The fact that it doesn't checkpoint you before you go into a base is a positive because it doesn't penalize you if you decide to change tactics after failures. It's utterly trivial to lock in a loadout before going into a place if you really want (just grab some flowers and walk a few feet) but if you decided after five failed attempts that you'd rather call in different equipment you're not stuck eating the cost for the equipment you ended up not needing.

What checkpoint system would you want in this game? Do you want it to hard-save your location every time you change equipment? Don't you think that would get more frustrating if you called it in during a boss fight and suddenly your checkpoint was locked to when you grabbed a new rocket launcher right before Metal Gear was about to hit you with five missiles?

I think the primary issue with checkpointing is that it's nontransparent. People are still struggling to reconstruct what gets saved, when.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 16:37

Snak: Oct 10, 2005; I myself will carry you to the Gates of Valhalla...
You will ride eternal,
shiny and chrome.; Grimey Drawer

It also has plenty of problems anyway. Just last night I was trying to get the bluprints off the helicopter in The War Economy, and I had to restart the mission every time the helicopter crashed on top of a cliff or outside the mission area (it moved over 500m laterally as it's crashing, in a random direction) but the game checkpoints as soon as the helicopter realizes it's being shot at. If you reload from checkpoint, the helicopter is either already shot down or has turned back and won't spawn in the mission.

When I did Traitor's caravan the first time, I didn't undertstand the checkpoint system and was parked on the edge of a guardpost at my checkpoint. This created "checkpoint creep" wherever every time I retried, it recheckpointed randomly as I was calling in supply drops and poo poo. So every time I restarted it was from a slightly different time. This was very confusing and frustrating before I realized that the checkpoint was tied to physical location and not (in this case) mission scripting.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 16:43

SPACE HOMOS: Jan 12, 2005

What was with the one cutscene when you return to MB where Code Talker is mumbling multiple conversations (Borscht again?? Ocelots aim is off today) then looks at you and says "watch miller?"

Edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMha13rHS9g

Edit2: I already knew a lot of the throws and techniques were legit (thanks Motosada Mori), but here are some videos explaining some stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwgMGaqG6Akdty3EFJqWBHE8nG9YUwMjR

SPACE HOMOS fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Oct 1, 2015

# ? Oct 1, 2015 16:45

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Snak posted:

When I did Traitor's caravan the first time, I didn't undertstand the checkpoint system and was parked on the edge of a guardpost at my checkpoint. This created "checkpoint creep" wherever every time I retried, it recheckpointed randomly as I was calling in supply drops and poo poo. So every time I restarted it was from a slightly different time. This was very confusing and frustrating before I realized that the checkpoint was tied to physical location and not (in this case) mission scripting.

I tested this out and it literally shows you a save marker. It is really obviously transparent. You figured it out yourself even.

It is not a perfect checkpoint system with zero flaws but very few of those exist. Scripted mission-based checkpoints in open world games tend to either put you way too far back (see: GTA "I have to drive to the mission again?") or are too frequent and can break the game in a variety of ways. Quick save/quick load discourages dealing with consequences for mistakes and dramatically increases the number of things that can go wrong when a game is loaded. Locked-down save points are good but in open world games suffer from the same problem of distance from target. Auto-saving regularly ala Dark Souls style can cause unwinnable situations or heavy drain on resources.

There are things they could tighten up in terms of where checkpointing occurs but by and large it is predictable. It occurs before and after incursions. This can mean it involves a long trip back if you screw up which is neither an inherent negative or positive as it emphasizes certain design decisions.

SPACE HOMOS posted:

What was with the one cutscene when you return to MB where Code Talker is mumbling multiple conversations (Borscht again?? Ocelots aim is off today) then looks at you and says "watch miller?"

Edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMha13rHS9g

He is spying using his own parasites.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Oct 1, 2015

# ? Oct 1, 2015 16:52

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# ? May 30, 2024 06:13

SPACE HOMOS: Jan 12, 2005

ImpAtom posted:

He is spying using his own parasites.

I understood he was using his parasites, but I thought it was going to have Miller do something to betray MB.

# ? Oct 1, 2015 16:59

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Metal Gear Solid V TPP SPOILER/PLOT THREAD - this thread has spoilers

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