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Hooded Reptile posted:Iscenko, who also faces sex-abuse charges, will keep his pension.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:13
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Dead Reckoning posted:I used to think that sort of thing was nuts too, but then someone explained it to me as a pension being part of your pay and benefits, so getting to keep it as long as you had accrued sufficient service to earn a pension prior to the date of the offense makes sense. The state can't go back and demand he return his wages from the period before he committed the crime, or insist that he repay any treatment he received from the department's health insurance plan. Why should a pension obligation be treated any differently? Yeah, they certainly wouldn't liquidate his 401k if he had that instead of a pension, for instance. Do pensions scale over time? How is the pay amount handled in a situation like this where a person leaves early?
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Sep 30, 2015 19:26
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Dirk the Average posted:Yeah, they certainly wouldn't liquidate his 401k if he had that instead of a pension, for instance.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:38
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Dirk the Average posted:Yeah, they certainly wouldn't liquidate his 401k if he had that instead of a pension, for instance. My pension (cops get better pensions), works like this. If you do 5 years, you vest. This means you have a pension at some amount when you retire forever. If you do, say, 3 years you may have an option to cash out, but cannot get a pension. At 5 years, you can only collect the pension at like 75 unless you started after maybe 55 or something. At 10 years, you can start collecting the pension at 50 or 55. Then you have a pension that is expressed like 2% at 60. What this means is that if you retire at 60 years of age, you get 2% of your salary for every year worked. For example, if you work 30 years, at 60, you will recieve 60% of your final salary. If you retire early, that 2% number goes down, if you retire later that percentage goes up. There are also disability pensions which can kick in early, but that's a different deal. So once this guy hits his retirement age, he will be able to collect what he earned for gis years. I have no problem with that, a pension is just delayed compensation and that is worth a lot to governments. For example, I make at least $40k per year less that I would at the private sector, which I am fine with because the defined benefit should pay me something back at the back end. If not, I'd be maxing out my 401k, which I can't afford to because I contrubute thousands of dollars to my pension every year. In turn, the government will end up paying less than $40k extra into my pension plan and with the miracle of compounding interest will end up paying me way less in 2015 dollars when I retire because I like junk food. Everytime I hear people bitching about pensions, I wonder if they have really calculated how much more professionals will cost to retain. Most of the problems are because they pension programs were poorly run and assumed unrealistic payouts.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:30
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Then in late February, during a basketball game in Burleson with a strong rival, Alvarado, all hell broke out. “The whole game they’re saying little things at me, like quiet, so the coaches hear it, my husband hears it, the monitor heard it,” Curs recalled. With just minutes left to play, she said something back – in words that are still in dispute. But the warrant for her arrest – issued more than two months later – says “her behavior constituted a criminal offense.” That assessment came from the person she exchanged words with that day, off-duty Capt. Gary Melson of the Alvarado Police Department. He told her he’d heard her use profanity. Melson declined requests by the I-Team to give his account of what happened during that game. Additionally, the Alvarado police department wouldn’t give CBS 11 a statement either. But the game’s referee, Andy Love, did talk to us. “That’s absurd. I saw nothing that happened in that gym that would warrant anybody having to go to jail,” Love said. http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/09/21/a-foul-is-called-the-whistle-blows-and-2-months-later-a-popular-girls-coach-is-jailed/ They were about to formally file a Class A misdemeanor charge against Curs, accusing her of “intentionally” fleeing from Melson, even though she knew he was a “peace officer who was attempting to lawfully arrest or detain the defendant.” However, County Attorney Bill Moore said his office is reconsidering filing a charge, “in light” of what the I-Team has uncovered, and will continue to review the case, in hopes of interviewing further witnesses, including the referee Love. Same old same, sweep it under the rug and hope no one finds the truth.
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Sep 30, 2015 22:36
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This is so loving brilliant. So you yell at a coach for an hour, off duty and in plain clothes, but then if you "think you heard them say profanity", you hold them until the local cops arrive. quote:But the game’s referee, Andy Love, did talk to us. Of course when the other cops come, he says he doesn't want to issue a citation! Because they can tell it is BS. quote:The arriving officers from Burleson filed a report that said Melson “didn’t want a citation issued, but just wanted this issue to be resolved.” This cop is now so angry he can't help but call his buddies and get this coach banned from school property in his hometown. quote:Free to go, Curs went directly from Burleson to coach another game in Alvarado, where she was met by another officer in that town, who handed her a criminal trespass warning that said she was not wanted in their school gym. Of course, that's not enough. This cop didn't get his way in public and his buddies didn't back him. So he files evading arrest charges for her presumably struggling when a strange dude grabs her court-side. quote:Curs said she thought her run-in with Melson was behind her after that day. I'd be shocked if anyone at all lost their job, or any pay over this.
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Sep 30, 2015 23:03
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Trabisnikof posted:This is so loving brilliant. So you yell at a coach for an hour, off duty and in plain clothes, but then if you "think you heard them say profanity", you hold them until the local cops arrive. If there were any cosmic justice in the universe, petty shits like that would all die of rear end cancer.
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Sep 30, 2015 23:44
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Legit did not expect this: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/01/us/tulsa-sheriff-indicted-on-misconduct-charges-in-killing-by-a-deputy.html quote:A grand jury here indicted the sheriff of Tulsa County on misconduct charges on Wednesday, and the sheriff’s lawyer said he will step down, six months after a volunteer reserve deputy accidentally shot and killed an unarmed man during an arrest.
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Oct 1, 2015 05:18
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Audit all cops.
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Oct 1, 2015 05:29
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Looks like the long arm of the law has reached out and grabbed firm hold of Glanz.
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Oct 1, 2015 05:32
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Dead Reckoning posted:I used to think that sort of thing was nuts too, but then someone explained it to me as a pension being part of your pay and benefits, so getting to keep it as long as you had accrued sufficient service to earn a pension prior to the date of the offense makes sense. The state can't go back and demand he return his wages from the period before he committed the crime, or insist that he repay any treatment he received from the department's health insurance plan. Why should a pension obligation be treated any differently? Yeah pretty much. People should get fired and go to jail for their crimes, but I am not okay with employers deciding they get to yank already-earned delayed compensation because you were real bad even if you were real real bad.
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Oct 1, 2015 05:43
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VitalSigns posted:Yeah pretty much. People should get fired and go to jail for their crimes, but I am not okay with employers deciding they get to yank already-earned delayed compensation because you were real bad even if you were real real bad.
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Oct 1, 2015 07:28
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Dead Reckoning posted:It's not like the state can't play gently caress-gently caress games anyway. When the Air Force discovered that Col. Michael D. Murphy had lied about his licensing and qualifications when he entered the service, they kicked him out and busted him back to the last grade in which he had satisfactorily served... Which was 1st Lieutenant, twenty six years prior. Bye-bye, most of his pension. The difference is that he fraudulently aquired his job and its salary and benefits.
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Oct 1, 2015 20:34
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nm posted:The difference is that he fraudulently aquired his job and its salary and benefits.
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Oct 1, 2015 21:16
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nm posted:The difference is that he fraudulently aquired his job and its salary and benefits. I'm not saying it was wrong, just pointing out that they still have ways of going after a pension if they can show a long enough history of misconduct.
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Oct 1, 2015 22:55
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I'm pretty sure if you manage to get yourself a DD at 19 years and 364 days you are still 100% hosed when it comes to your pension. As much as some people would have you believe different, the cop and the soldier are very different.
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Oct 2, 2015 00:55
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nm posted:As much as some people would have you believe different, the cop and the soldier are very different.
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Oct 2, 2015 02:38
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richard glossip's execution has been delayed to november after oklahoman executioners realized they did not have the potassium chloride needed to stop his heart. they had accidently procured potassium acetate instead, a food preservative and something that has been used in mummification in the past. the executioners are required to do an inventory of the drugs used for lethal injection 48 hours before execution, but they only discovered the mistake around 10 minutes before his scheduled execution https://www.yahoo.com/health/new-twist-in-richard-glossip-1268977914331190.html Condiv fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Oct 2, 2015 |
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Oct 2, 2015 02:44
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Condiv posted:richard glossip's execution has been delayed to november after oklahoman executioners realized they did not have the potassium chloride needed to stop his heart. they had accidently procured potassium acetate instead, a food preservative and something that has been used in mummification in the past. the executioners are required to do an inventory of the drugs used for lethal injection 48 hours before execution, but they only discovered the mistake around 10 minutes before his scheduled execution Oklahoma's executioners are apparently even less competent than the hooded executioners from various New Yorker and Far Side cartoons, apparently.
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Oct 2, 2015 03:03
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Soldiers actually have ROEs. And the ROEs are universally hated by ground troops.
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Oct 2, 2015 04:39
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Everblight posted:Oklahoma's executioners are apparently even less competent than the hooded executioners from various New Yorker and Far Side cartoons, apparently. https://youtu.be/eUal1r1_-5k?t=3m10s e: drat, apparently I don't know how to embed video with a start time.... fosborb fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Oct 2, 2015 |
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Oct 2, 2015 04:44
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Cole posted:And the ROEs are universally hated by ground troops.
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Oct 2, 2015 06:46
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Breaking news: PFCs hate everything in the army, you heard it here first, kids.
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Oct 2, 2015 09:18
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VitalSigns posted:Breaking news: PFCs hate everything in the army, you heard it here first, kids. PFCs aren't there only troops on the ground. Why the smart rear end response?
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Oct 2, 2015 13:23
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Cole posted:And the ROEs are universally hated by ground troops. True, but correct me if I'm wrong - loving up the ROE leads to some massive bootfucking by leadership does it not? I mean, the question isn't "Do police like it," it's "would this be effective?"
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Oct 2, 2015 14:41
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Cole posted:And the ROEs are universally hated by ground troops.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:52
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Cole posted:And the ROEs are universally hated by ground troops. And I hate FDA regulations because without them we could put products on the market inside of 6 months or so. Sure, hundreds of thousands of people would die without the regulation, but broken eggs, omelets, etc.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:34
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Dirk the Average posted:And I hate FDA regulations because without them we could put products on the market inside of 6 months or so. Sure, hundreds of thousands of people would die without the regulation, but broken eggs, omelets, etc. When you have FDA regulations that can actively get people killed on a daily basis, then you'll have a solid comparison. The lack of FDA regulation would kill people. In the case of ROE, the regulation gets people killed. See the difference?
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Oct 2, 2015 15:37
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Raerlynn posted:True, but correct me if I'm wrong - loving up the ROE leads to some massive bootfucking by leadership does it not? I mean, the question isn't "Do police like it," it's "would this be effective?" That depends on the situation and how bad of a gently caress up. You're not allowed to shoot warning shots, for example. But if a troop pops three rounds into the ground to get a motorcycle to stop speeding at a convoy, it isn't seen as that big of a deal, even though it is explicitly stated to not shoot warning shots.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:40
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Cole posted:That depends on the situation and how bad of a gently caress up. You're not allowed to shoot warning shots, for example. But if a troop pops three rounds into the ground to get a motorcycle to stop speeding at a convoy, it isn't seen as that big of a deal, even though it is explicitly stated to not shoot warning shots. I don't get how you think the argument that soldiers should be allowed to kill anyone they see is a good one to make in the police thread.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:54
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"Hey don't just shoot up civilians whenever you feel like it, that's a good way to make people join the insurgency" \/  Ugh, why are you trying to kill are troops with your PC rules, thanks Obama
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Oct 2, 2015 15:59
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Trabisnikof posted:I don't get how you think the argument that soldiers should be allowed to kill anyone they see is a good one to make in the police thread. I don't think I ever said that. Don't assume, it makes you look kind of dumb. In fact my point was about the ability to take warning shots, which are taken so that you don't have to kill someone. But if you don't see how the connection between soldiers hating the ROE and cops being resistant to implementing such ROEs is relevant then I dunno what to tell you.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:00
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Cole posted:That depends on the situation and how bad of a gently caress up. You're not allowed to shoot warning shots, for example. But if a troop pops three rounds into the ground to get a motorcycle to stop speeding at a convoy, it isn't seen as that big of a deal, even though it is explicitly stated to not shoot warning shots. That's interesting. Why do you feel they put a soldier's life in danger, and how do you believe that would translate to a police officer having something along those lines? I'm having a hard time coming up with drawbacks that outweigh the current system where the officer claims fear for his life and guns someone down, and then massive backlash ensues?
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Oct 2, 2015 16:04
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Cole posted:When you have FDA regulations that can actively get people killed on a daily basis, then you'll have a solid comparison. Actually FDA regulations do kill people. They delay new treatments by years, sometimes decades, and people die in the meantime. Doctors often want to use new medicines/devices that they are administering in trials due to how effective they can be (given that they're generally 5+ years newer), but are blocked by regulations. However, having the regulations is preferable to not having them because untested medicine is incredibly dangerous to have floating around.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:11
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Raerlynn posted:That's interesting. Why do you feel they put a soldier's life in danger, and how do you believe that would translate to a police officer having something along those lines? I'm having a hard time coming up with drawbacks that outweigh the current system where the officer claims fear for his life and guns someone down, and then massive backlash ensues? They establish the ROE to make the population feel secure. David Petraeus wrote the counter insurgency manual after going weapons free in Iraq just made things more violent. When he wrote the COIN manual and took over command of Iraq we started "winning." It has carried over. The problem is COIN essentially ties troops' hands and you have to actively be in danger before you can do anything. It makes troops feel like they aren't allowed to be proactive with their safety. And being reactive in a combat zone means you either got shot at or blown up. This directly relates to police in America, because something similar to counter insurgency* would probably be effective as long as you don't take away most proactive measures that police could take to ensure their own safety. * don't let the name scare you. Counter Insurgency's main focus is to win the hearts and minds of a population. And let's be clear, cops in America aren't winning the hearts and minds of people.
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Oct 2, 2015 16:11
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Cole posted:They establish the ROE to make the population feel secure. David Petraeus wrote the counter insurgency manual after going weapons free in Iraq just made things more violent. When he wrote the COIN manual and took over command of Iraq we started "winning." It has carried over. Looks like we're on the same page as far as the "hearts and minds" thing. Do you think it's smart or safe for police to treat the streets like a combat zone though? I think that's where we disagree in this thread - officers seem to have this "us or them" mentality, and now that citizens are pushing back they're mystified why they no longer have the support of some of their communities. Whether or not that mentality is justified, or even helpful / appropriate is where we seem to get in our hottest debates over.
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Oct 2, 2015 17:03
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Dirk the Average posted:Actually FDA regulations do kill people. They delay new treatments by years, sometimes decades, and people die in the meantime. Doctors often want to use new medicines/devices that they are administering in trials due to how effective they can be (given that they're generally 5+ years newer), but are blocked by regulations.
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Oct 2, 2015 17:21
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Everblight posted:Ask a thalidomide baby how they feel about unrestricted drugs. That was the entire point of the second part of my post that you cut out.
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Oct 2, 2015 17:24
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Raerlynn posted:Looks like we're on the same page as far as the "hearts and minds" thing. Do you think it's smart or safe for police to treat the streets like a combat zone though? I think that's where we disagree in this thread - officers seem to have this "us or them" mentality, and now that citizens are pushing back they're mystified why they no longer have the support of some of their communities. Whether or not that mentality is justified, or even helpful / appropriate is where we seem to get in our hottest debates over. It's obviously not good for police to treat the streets as a combat zone, but that's a fundamental difference that would need to be established in any COIN-type doctrine or regulation that gets passed to police. The "us vs them" mentality shouldn't be so prevalent. In a perfect world it wouldn't exist. But the problem is some of the people who "push back" are doing so in ways that only perpetuate the "us vs them" mentality that police have. Most of the burden of the issue falls on police, but it's a two way street. There should just be more traffic going one way than the other. For example, several months into my tour I adopted an "us vs them" mentality, and I was very hateful towards the general population simply because friends of mine had been killed. One platoon in the 82nd (I was 101st) got massacred about three miles away from us. If a cop sees on the news that someone walked up behind a sheriff and blow his head off, or two cops sitting in their cars got killed, I can't help but understand how an "us vs them" mentality gets established. Do I agree with it? No. It took me several years to get over my hate for everything Middle East, and I sorely regret the outlook I had for so many years. The thing is, I can totally understand how that outlook comes to be, and I can sympathize.
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Oct 2, 2015 20:08
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I'm glad we don't actually have to care what troops think, because this isn't Rome and I'm not Caesar.
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Oct 2, 2015 20:18
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