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DeusExMachinima posted:Couldn't he just be like, "Hey you have an hour to clear the area?" Assad's rule is that for every 1 mortar round that lands in his controlled section of Damascus, the suburbs get 2 barrel bombs. The US could tell Putin for every 1 bomb on not-ISIS, we drop 2 on Latakia. 
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Oct 2, 2015 00:27
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:The security certificate expired. Putin  On the bomb I think it's a KAB-500 S-E which would make it satellite guided. So they are using some guided munitions, although that one didnt' get dropped.
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Oct 2, 2015 00:30
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I thought the Russians had a pretty large inventory of Laser and GLONASS guided munitions? I find it interesting that they'd be using iron bombs if their air campaign just started, especially since Russian strike aircraft don't have CCIP systems as good as NATO.
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Oct 2, 2015 01:06
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DtSToklHdI God Help Us Please https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7H00OUf1lA
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Oct 2, 2015 01:11
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EDIT: NM pretty sure I'm wrong
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Oct 2, 2015 01:49
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"Killing each other like donkeys", yup pretty much. Until everything is destroyed. With other people swarming around them hoping to sell them the guns to do it, while everyone else watches on TV popcorn in hand. People are just terrible.
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Oct 2, 2015 02:07
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Frosted Flake posted:I thought the Russians had a pretty large inventory of Laser and GLONASS guided munitions? They're cheap as gently caress, the Russian public doesn't give a poo poo about Syrian civilians, and Russia's remaining friends on the world stage don't give a poo poo about civilian casualties. Also Russia doesn't actually care about anything besides propping up Assad.
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Oct 2, 2015 02:08
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:They're cheap as gently caress, the Russian public doesn't give a poo poo about Syrian civilians, and Russia's remaining friends on the world stage don't give a poo poo about civilian casualties. Yeah but guided munitions isn't just about avoiding civilian casualties. You're going to hit what you want to and miss less meaning you don't have to fly as many sorties.
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Oct 2, 2015 02:16
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Vladimir Putin posted:Yeah but guided munitions isn't just about avoiding civilian casualties. You're going to hit what you want to and miss less meaning you don't have to fly as many sorties. This isn't a problem if your target is whatever buildings and vehicles happen to be on the wrong side of the front line.
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Oct 2, 2015 02:25
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:This isn't a problem if your target is whatever buildings and vehicles happen to be on the wrong side of the front line. If this big combined Russian-Hezabollah-SAA push is going to happen, then I'd imagine CAS is going to be a nightmare for their own friendly forces.
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Oct 2, 2015 02:28
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DeusExMachinima posted:Couldn't he just be like, "Hey you have an hour to clear the area?" "We will begin bombing insurgent positions in East Ukraine today. Vladimir, you have one hour to get your guys out of the country." *drops mike, walks off the stage*
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Oct 2, 2015 02:30
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:This isn't a problem if your target is whatever buildings and vehicles happen to be on the wrong side of the front line. You're still going to want to hit targets of opportunity with a high degree of accuracy. Maybe even more so because the window to hit them may not be open forever.
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Oct 2, 2015 02:32
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Dont know how reliable this source is: http://warisboring.com/articles/the-big-thing-the-russian-air-force-still-cant-do/ But basically it says that yes, Russia has developed an array of laser, GLONASS, and TV guided bombs but they are not deployed in very large numbers and the Russian AF still relies heavily on dumb bombs. I imagine they save the precision stuff for targets that are extremely important. But yeah, its going to be funny watching Russia drop bombs on Syrian troops.
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Oct 2, 2015 03:06
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Clinton, Kasich, and Bush have all said they would support a no fly zone in Syria.
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Oct 2, 2015 04:17
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Volkerball posted:Clinton, Kasich, and Bush have all said they would support a no fly zone in Syria. Heres a link to Hillary saying that: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/hillary-clinton-calls-no-fly-zones-syria WTF? What are they planning on doing? Shooting the Russians out of the sky? Im seriously scratching my head over this. A no fly zone might have viable at one time, but how the hell is it supposed to work now that the Russians are flying in Syria? I'm sure that wouldnt escelate things at all....
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Oct 2, 2015 04:23
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Volkerball posted:Clinton, Kasich, and Bush have all said they would support a no fly zone in Syria. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gErz-TJY2nA NATO aircraft shooting down Russian planes
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Oct 2, 2015 04:24
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Charliegrs posted:Heres a link to Hillary saying that: Walk into the Russian embassy in Baghdad and say planes start falling in an hour. Get out of our airspace.
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Oct 2, 2015 04:30
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All airspace is America. Divine mandate of heaven.
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Oct 2, 2015 04:32
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McDowell posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gErz-TJY2nA That post scared the gently caress out of me for a second.
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Oct 2, 2015 04:41
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:That post scared the gently caress out of me for a second. We live on the desperate edge of now, friends. That is my dream, that is my nightmare. Crawling on the edge of a straight razor.
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Oct 2, 2015 04:43
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World War 3 didn't start the last time american planes shot down Russian planes, and it won't start this time.
Killer-of-Lawyers fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Oct 2, 2015 |
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Oct 2, 2015 05:13
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Killer-of-Lawyers posted:World War 3 didn't start the last time american planes shot down Russian planes, and it won't start this time. Finally they can show off the power of the finest aircraft in the world! The F-35! 
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Oct 2, 2015 05:42
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That's posturing. A no-fly zone is impossible now. I can't tell whether this is a desperate gambit on Putin's part or the U.S. stepping in its own trap.
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Oct 2, 2015 05:48
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Putin is trying to get his country's eyes off his failure in Ukraine.
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Oct 2, 2015 06:32
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DancingShade posted:Finally they can show off the power of the finest aircraft in the world! The F-35! Well they said no-fly zone, they didn't define the boundaries.
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Oct 2, 2015 07:02
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Killer-of-Lawyers posted:World War 3 didn't start the last time american planes shot down Russian planes, and it won't start this time. Do the old Mig ally trick in reverse, the FSA suddenly gets a whole bunch of F-16s piloted by totally 100% Syrian freedom fighters with heavy Jordanian accents.
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Oct 2, 2015 07:32
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farraday posted:BM is there an issue with bellingcat? I'm getting a privacy notice when i try and visit using chrome. Just my webhost being a pain in the arse about installing my new SSL certificate.
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Oct 2, 2015 07:37
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Runaktla posted:Putin is trying to get his country's eyes off his failure in Ukraine. You got a funny way of defining failure.
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Oct 2, 2015 07:51
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You got a funny way of defining failure. Ukraine is independent, with a pro-EU president who has started the process of bringing UA into the EU. loving nobody but maybe Lavrov, Putin, and a bunch of vodka-pickled terrorists drawing Russian army paychecks recognize Crimea as anything other than part of Ukraine. Is "success" a phonetic analogue to something else in Russian?
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Oct 2, 2015 08:02
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Ukraine isn't getting control of Crimea back, and even control of the Donbass seems quite unlikely. The warfare also damaged Ukraine's economy too much to make it being able to join the EU in a foreseeable future, while the contested territories make it unable to join NATO, and the fight against corruption has been stalled by these circumstances. Putin may not have gotten everything that he wanted from Ukraine, but he got enough to be able to claim victory.
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Oct 2, 2015 08:15
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FAUXTON posted:Ukraine is independent, with a pro-EU president who has started the process of bringing UA into the EU. loving nobody but maybe Lavrov, Putin, and a bunch of vodka-pickled terrorists drawing Russian army paychecks recognize Crimea as anything other than part of Ukraine. Russia was never going to invade all of Ukraine, and it doesn't matter what you do or don't recognize because the facts on the ground are that Russia controls Crimea. I would say it's only a matter of time before everybody stops caring about Crimea, but really they stopped caring about Crimea as soon as the Donbass flared up. Speaking of Donbass, the Russians have also successfully protected their pet separatists and made sure that the incompetent and corrupt Ukrainian government can never overtake them by force. All with a pretty minor overall commitment from the Russians in terms of men and material. So long as Russian oligarchs can keep choosing Sevastopol as a vacation destination instead of Sochi, then Putin has done what he set out to do. It was obvious after Yanukovych was forced out that Ukraine would fall out of Russia's orbit. This is Russia cutting its losses and snatching up what they want while they still can, and what they really wanted all along was Crimea. Every Russian speaking resident of Donbass could choke and die so long as it keeps Ukraine from ever challenging their hold on Crimea.
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Oct 2, 2015 08:16
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No else reporting it besides RT atm, but the Turkish Army has moved into the Kurdish majority city of Silvan. http://www.rt.com/news/317341-turkish-army-police-silvan/
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Oct 2, 2015 08:26
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Charliegrs posted:Heres a link to Hillary saying that: Well, it's not like she could have advised setting up no fly zones in Syria back when she was Secretary of State, you know, several years ago when that would have been mildly useful. It probably wouldn't have solved anything, but her husband did alright enforcing No Fly Zones. So now that she's a private citizen running for public office and the Russians are flying sorties over Syria, now she calls for a no fly zone when even the biggest hawks think that picking fights with Russia is really loving retarded, what is the plan here?
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Oct 2, 2015 12:22
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thrakkorzog posted:Well, it's not like she could have advised setting up no fly zones in Syria back when she was Secretary of State, you know, several years ago when that would have been mildly useful. It probably wouldn't have solved anything, but her husband did alright enforcing No Fly Zones. Wasn't John Kerry SoS when this started?
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Oct 2, 2015 12:33
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Mooseontheloose posted:Wasn't John Kerry SoS when this started? She was secretary of state in 2011/2012 but at that point, there was still little appetite for a no-fly zone especially since it would likely mean a Libya-style regime change.
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Oct 2, 2015 13:06
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thrakkorzog posted:Well, it's not like she could have advised setting up no fly zones in Syria back when she was Secretary of State, you know, several years ago when that would have been mildly useful. It probably wouldn't have solved anything, but her husband did alright enforcing No Fly Zones. She was quite a bit more hawkish on Syria than Obama was, but not nearly as much as she likes to pretend she was today. She advocated for a no fly zone and I think regime change, but it was behind closed doors and she wasn't very vocal about it. Robert Ford had a lot to say about it when he resigned in protest over the Obama administrations Syria strategy. Anyways, the way I see it, the US doesn't have any option but to counter Russian aggression here. It isn't like Putin doesn't have a choice. Between Sisi, and Iran and its proxies, Russia has just as much, if not more influence in the middle east than the US, not even including Assad. And certainly among the most influence they've ever had in the region. This is purely naked aggression for the advancement of hegemony from a dictatorial tyrant. We can sit here and argue about whether or not the US should capitulate to avoid confrontation, but that fact doesn't change. Look at how we were told about the strikes beginning in Syria. Look at who was targeted first in the strikes (CIA trained rebels specifically). Russia is picking a fight, and don't try and claim it's anything else. We can counter this without much fanfare now specifically because the US is in a position of strength, but that position of strength will be lost if we allow Putin to establish hegemony with a ruthlessness the US can't match to his little heart's content. Then, the ball will be in his court. I'd absolutely support a no fly zone in Syria because it would counter Russian influence at the benefit of the civilian population in Syria, which is win/win. There'd likely be something similar we could do in Ukraine. The objective with this is that you have to set rules and stick by them, and make sure Russia understands that when it breaks those rules, the US is richer, stronger, and will not play your little game. Any imperialist attempts from Putin to increase Russian influence will result in Russia losing influence. That's the only thing Putin will understand. Anything else is just kicking the can to a day when the task is much more daunting. I don't like this situation any more than any of you, but this isn't something we can sit by and watch. It's going to have negative consequences down the road one way or the other. The safest route is to nip it in the bud now. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Oct 2, 2015 |
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Oct 2, 2015 13:16
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Everything was forever, until it was no more.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:06
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Russia was never going to invade all of Ukraine, and it doesn't matter what you do or don't recognize because the facts on the ground are that Russia controls Crimea. I would say it's only a matter of time before everybody stops caring about Crimea, but really they stopped caring about Crimea as soon as the Donbass flared up. Speaking of Donbass, the Russians have also successfully protected their pet separatists and made sure that the incompetent and corrupt Ukrainian government can never overtake them by force. All with a pretty minor overall commitment from the Russians in terms of men and material. So long as Russian oligarchs can keep choosing Sevastopol as a vacation destination instead of Sochi, then Putin has done what he set out to do. They failed to use Crimea as a springboard to bring Ukraine into their grasp, though, and they decided they'd just start shooting once the rest of the country rose up against Yanukovych and replaced him with Poroshenko. The attempt at using Russian-speaking regions to install thugs failed and so Russia decided they'd poo poo on Ukraine's porch out of spite. That's not success, especially when they're still Russian-speaking regions frequently visited by Russians as they were long before they foisted Yanukovych on the country except now the only people visiting are Russians. Seriously, what definition of success involves such little change other than bloodshed and terror? Are we talking about the same word here?
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Oct 2, 2015 14:13
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FAUXTON posted:Seriously, what definition of success involves such little change other than bloodshed and terror? Are we talking about the same word here? Strategically, if Russia holds Crimea the whole thing is a Russian success. Your pointing out how homey and hospitable the house still is even though it has no roof or glass in it's windows.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:22
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I have no idea where this appeasement movement coming from. Putin just keeps doing what he wants and everyone shits themselves because why? There's nothing Russia could do to really threaten the West in any meaningful way. Instead, time after time the west is showing weakness and Putin is exploiting this fully. Just think about this: Putin invaded and annexed part of his western-friendly neighbor and tried the same in another chunk. We argued about possibly wagging our finger at him. Rebels, half-assedly supported by the US, threaten his tyrannical buddy Assad and what does he do? Commit troops to support him and protect Russian interests. However, I think it's too late for the no-fly zone. Had it been put in place a year ago, Putin would just have to suck it, but now again by being so slow and indecisive, Putin forced us to be the aggressor should we decide to do something about this.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:27
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