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Well poo poo this is what people mean when they say that you can't just force the church to take a 180 on its positions overnight.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:19
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Ok this is the Second Amendment:quote:A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. To me as a foreigner, both "Well-regulated militia" and "the people" seems to indicate some sort of an collective effort, not "Everyone gets a gun!" I never see anyone talk about this in U.S. media though. Supreme Court apparently made it so that it doesn't matter?
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Oct 2, 2015 14:20
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DarkCrawler posted:Ok, as a foreigner, this is the Second Amendment: The "militia" is defined in US law as all men between some age range.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:21
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JT Jag posted:Eventually he's just gonna sit slumped on his podium, silent, for the first 10 minutes of the press conference, before muttering "Here we are again." I think his speech last night was a template Democrats should use to talk about gun control in both content and tone. I wish we had gotten more of that forceful tone from him throughout his presidency.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:21
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Obama has been forceful for a long time now he just is not covered by the msm and his new media game is only now getting going. He should be posting speeches straight to YouTube.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:24
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There are a cadre of paranoid racists who have been convinced since 2008 a black president's master plan is to disarm them so he can throw them in chains in revenge for slavery. The venn diagram that represents these genetic failures also intersects pretty much all the way with the Republican base What I'm saying is the only way to end mass shootings is to fix gerrymandering I'm not kidding
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Oct 2, 2015 14:24
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DarkCrawler posted:Ok this is the Second Amendment: You're not wrong, but unfortunately the Constitution never really got "updated" past a certain point so the country just stumbles along playing Semantic Hot Potato with the same words over and over and over despite the fact that the context behind the writing of these words is no longer relevant to modern day issues.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:25
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Volcott posted:Why is it that it's a mass shooting, but the person who does it is a spree shooter? Murder sprees may take place over multiple loosely connected events, with no cooldown period that would be associated with a serial killer. Examples include the Beltway Sniper and Versace's killer. The technical term for the event in Oregon would be a rampage. Rampage is kind of an exciting word, so mass/spree shooting is probably better (less provocative) for entertainment media.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:26
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The Shortest Path posted:I'm sure that this has already been posted in this thread, but I'd really just like to get the colossal amounts of "what the gently caress" out of my system. Are you honestly surprised? 4chan is an anonymous group of kids all trying to be the edgiest edgelords on the Internet. In their defense most of them probably thought he was BSing. But also gently caress 4chan forever.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:35
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I think his speech last night was a template Democrats should use to talk about gun control in both content and tone. I wish we had gotten more of that forceful tone from him throughout his presidency. I've seen Barack Obama mad like three times and even then it was "strong disapproval" type of mad. I just don't think he's a very forceful person.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:37
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botany posted:You do realize that laws and culture influence each other, right? In the beginning it takes laws to force people to accept interracial marriage, which in turn normalizes the idea of interracial marriage and then changes the cultural values. You need to normalize the ideas that it's okay to go get help for your brain problems and that it's not okay to stockpile weapons, which you do by passing laws that make sure that people have easy access to mental health care and difficult access to guns. Cultural values follow. I think we're talking past each other here. I don't disagree with a word of that but that is not what I was saying. Gun laws and better mental health will improve many things in America but I don't believe it will have an effect on the thing that causes spree killers. So you pass gun laws and the result of that is a healthier gun culture and fewer other types of gun crime - great! I don't think school shootings stem from gun culture but I'm happy to be convinced otherwise because that massively simplifies the problem. You provide better mental health services and you help to improve issues of homelessness, suicide, family dysfunction, crime and generally improve the well being of the nation but not necessarily school shootings. Most people propose solutions to make it harder for disaffected young men to go on shooting sprees. I want solutions that makes them not want to in the first place.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:38
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DarkCrawler posted:I've seen Barack Obama mad like three times and even then it was "strong disapproval" type of mad. I just don't think he's a very forceful person. What President would you point to as an example of getting really mad (specifically in public speeches)?
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Oct 2, 2015 14:38
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computer parts posted:What President would you point to as an example of getting really mad (specifically in public speeches)? We must, we must draw a line in the sand and across the line... you do not cross.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:41
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I know it's kinda D&D's go-to option, but full communism is not the solution to gun violence.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:42
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DarkCrawler posted:I've seen Barack Obama mad like three times and even then it was "strong disapproval" type of mad. I just don't think he's a very forceful person. I imagine he's aware that "being mad" would just play into the racist stereotypes that conservatives already have about him and so is trying to downplay that sort of thing as much as possible.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:43
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Funky See Funky Do posted:Most people propose solutions to make it harder for disaffected young men to go on shooting sprees. I want solutions that makes them not want to in the first place. How about we do more than one thing at a time
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Oct 2, 2015 14:45
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Well, as a general rule, he's always sort of been "calm, cool and collected" -- "No Drama Obama" as they often called him in '07/08. But in modern presidencies, his emotive display is relatively rare. Like even Lyndon Johnson was demure in public speeches.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:45
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hhhat posted:How about we do more than one thing at a time When we try to do a particular thing the entire debate grinds to a halt and nothing gets accomplished. We should do things, several things, but not that thing. Never that thing.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:46
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Volcott posted:We should do things, several things, but not that thing.  No, we won't do that.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:50
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computer parts posted:What President would you point to as an example of getting really mad (specifically in public speeches)? I wasn't really talking about specifically public speeches, but the general public image. I mean we all know say, Nixon was basically a rage addict even though public TV and such was almost non-existent compared to now, I don't think his contemporaries were under any illusion either? Also LBJ and his mafia intimidation tactics. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Oct 2, 2015 |
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Oct 2, 2015 14:50
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Rent-A-Cop posted:
God dammit Rent-A-Cop! You know I love you, but you've got a hell of a lot to learn about rock and roll.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:52
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Volcott posted:God dammit Rent-A-Cop! You know I love you, but you've got a hell of a lot to learn about rock and roll. Meatloaf singing while drunk and/or high next to Mitt Romney.avi
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Oct 2, 2015 14:56
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gradenko_2000 posted:Well poo poo this is what people mean when they say that you can't just force the church to take a 180 on its positions overnight. im not sure what the intended effect was, besides making frank look kind of bad to american liberals, but its some impressive string-pulling if its true
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Oct 2, 2015 14:58
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DarkCrawler posted:Ok this is the Second Amendment: The short answer is: the courts have firmly ruled time and again that it is a personal right, and only the second half of the amendment matters to all but a small fringe group in the US now. There's a great deal of legal history and cases regarding this, and a few cases which sort of went the other way - and Jefferson himself actually shot down the argument that public gun ownership would stop federal tyranny, and this was in an age before tanks and drones.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:03
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paranoid randroid posted:im not sure what the intended effect was, besides making frank look kind of bad to american liberals, but its some impressive string-pulling if its true Why wouldn't that be the intended effect? Consider: You're a conservative member of a conservative organization, who has to deal with a relatively liberal new leader. Said leader has more or less outright told you to stop focusing on the topics that have been your primary social focus for the last few years and instead turn to his goals that you may or may not agree with. Through a bit of media manipulation and trickery (and abusing the fact that he doesn't have a great grasp of English/probably isn't 100% up to speed on local politics), you get him to appear to endorse your position. Your cause gets stronger from his endorsement and you undermine his credibility with those who would support his goals that you don't like. That seems like a straight-up win, if you're a bishop or cardinal who thinks Francis' whole "Help the poor" thing is bullshit and want to instead bring down hellfire on The Gays.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:06
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I read somewhere that there was a guy with a concealed weapon on-campus during the shooting; he told someone, I think it was MSNBC, that he didn't act because he was afraid of being targeted by SWAT. Anyone have a source on this? Can't seem to find one. If true, that's one smart dude.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:07
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botany posted:You do realize that laws and culture influence each other, right? In the beginning it takes laws to force people to accept interracial marriage, which in turn normalizes the idea of interracial marriage and then changes the cultural values. You need to normalize the ideas that it's okay to go get help for your brain problems and that it's not okay to stockpile weapons, which you do by passing laws that make sure that people have easy access to mental health care and difficult access to guns. Cultural values follow. Hey buddy, tons of people with mental problems don't understand they have mental problems, so no amount of "normalizing getting help" is going to fix that. The Shortest Path posted:I'm sure that this has already been posted in this thread, but I'd really just like to get the colossal amounts of "what the gently caress" out of my system. People post fake "im going to shoot up my school" poo poo on 4chan all the time, there was nothing about this that indicated this guy wasn't another troll.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:08
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Reenacting Death to Smoochy is kinda low on the conspiracy level from an organization that supposedly had one of its leaders assassinated.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:08
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Coldbird posted:There's a great deal of legal history and cases regarding this, and a few cases which sort of went the other way - and Jefferson himself actually shot down the argument that public gun ownership would stop federal tyranny, and this was in an age before tanks and drones. Is there any era where public ownership of weapons was able to stop tyranny? Didn't a successful revolt require actual trained military units since we first started writing things down, pretty much?
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Oct 2, 2015 15:08
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Volcott posted:I know it's kinda D&D's go-to option, but full communism is not the solution to gun violence. I don't think anybody actually thinks that? Like... as a singular thought nobody believes that's the solution. I think people, like me, think that wealth inequality breeds poverty and poverty breeds desperation and desperation breeds violence. And in a culture with readily available guns, that violence becomes gun violence almost by default. So I don't think people think Communism is some antidote to gun violence. I think people think wealth inequality is a contributing factor to poverty driven violence.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:09
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His Purple Majesty posted:Riddle me this D&D, why is it that when we had looser restrictions on gun ownership and a functioning mental health system we had fewer mass shooters? Corn! And who tells corny jokes? The Joker! Not only that, Corn starts with AC. C! For Catwoman! And who lives near the sea? Penguin! Robin, I believe we have unraveled a most nefarious scheme.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:10
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DarkCrawler posted:Is there any era where public ownership of weapons was able to stop tyranny? Didn't a successful revolt require actual trained military units since we first started writing things down, pretty much? Rebellions are won or lost in the books, not on the battlefield.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:13
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computer parts posted:What President would you point to as an example of getting really mad (specifically in public speeches)? Depending on the speech, maybe either Roosevelt. But neither was really what passes for anger in modern cable news.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:17
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DarkCrawler posted:Is there any era where public ownership of weapons was able to stop tyranny? Didn't a successful revolt require actual trained military units since we first started writing things down, pretty much?
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Oct 2, 2015 15:23
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Tempest_56 posted:Why wouldn't that be the intended effect? fair enough. just seems like a lot of backroom machinating to score a cheap point off the guy, but i guess this is the papacy we're talking about and scheming is a grand tradition.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:26
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It seems like a pretty big conspiracy to get the pope to meet with a local nutbag.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:28
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Lessail posted:Guns are more important than lives in America #GunLivesMatter edit infraboy posted:In all these cases of mass shootings there has never really been a law-abiding-good guy that is part of a well-regulated-militia with his own firearm to stop a shooting before/during/after it starts so i'm not super sold on people just needing to carry one all the time as some kind of personal protection. The shooter will always have the element of surprise. Not all the time. http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/texas-good-guy-with-a-gun-shoots-carjacking-victim-in-head-then-runs-away/ Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Oct 2, 2015 |
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Oct 2, 2015 15:30
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The problem here is two-fold. 1. American cultural identity is so closely tied (erroneously, I might add) to personal liberty and standing against tyranny. Some powdered wig colonials with no concept of semiautomatic handguns bestowed the right to firearm ownership upon us 224 years ago and, in spite of the legality/practicality of amending the constitution to fit different times, gun ownership is somehow unique in the interest of 'fighting tyranny' or some such nonsense. 2. American gun-owners have an intensely emotional connection to the idea of personal safety in spite of evidence to the contrary. Studies have continually shown that the good-guy-with-a-gun bullshit is just that...total bullshit. Furthermore, they have shown that a gun within a household is more likely to harm a family member than an intruder. But the myth of personal responsibility for individual safety continues to be perpetuated because it feels good to be in control of your own destiny. Whatever. If a school full of dead children and teachers won't change the cripplingly stupid gun obsession in this country nothing will. We will continue to send our kids to school to learn active-shooter scenarios instead of learning from other countries that have remedied the problem of gun violence. E: Goddamn it, I liked my avatar! 
LeeMajors fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Oct 2, 2015 |
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Oct 2, 2015 15:37
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euphronius posted:Obama has been forceful for a long time now he just is not covered by the msm and his new media game is only now getting going. He should be posting speeches straight to YouTube. The bully pulpit doesn't exist.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:44
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greatn posted:Corn! And who tells corny jokes? The Joker! Not only that, Corn starts with AC. C! For Catwoman! And who lives near the sea? Penguin! Robin, I believe we have unraveled a most nefarious scheme. Please please tell me this actually happened in one of the issues. I've had enough poo poo today in my Facebook feed that I could use some cheering up.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:45
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