Literally The Worst posted:

whoa you're right i was totally unaware of what had happened this year because i didn't read a thread on the something awful dot com internet forums. you're right, that paranoia does in fact justify vigilante justice.

born on a buy you posted:

if we banned white males from 18-34 from owning guns mass shootings would drop to close to 0.

Raerlynn posted:

/sigh

Michael Brown
Tamir Rice
Eric Garner
Walter Scott
Tamara Seidle

That's five off the top of my head, from paying attention to the news over the past year and a couple months. But yes, I'm totally making up that police kill civilians and face few repercussions. In fact, let me Google that for you.

His Purple Majesty posted:

In order to get a concealed handgun license you have to have training in my state so wrong again euro friend.

Happiness is a Worn Gun posted:

At the same time, though, I was a little jealous of those getting permits. Taking my guns from the safe was a rare treat; the sensual pleasure of handling guns is a big part of the habit. Elegantly designed and exquisitely manufactured, they are deeply satisfying to manipulate, even without shooting. I normally got to play with mine only a few times a year, during hunting season and on one or two trips to the range. The people with carry permits, though, were handling their guns all the time. They were developing an enviable competence and familiarity with them. They were living the gun life. Finally, last year, under the guise of “wanting to learn what this is all about,” but really wanting to live the gun life myself, I began the process of getting a carry permit. All that was required was a background check, fingerprints, and certification that I’d passed an approved handgun class.

[...]

The classes I took taught me almost nothing about how to defend myself with a gun. One, taught by a man who said he refuses to get a carry permit because “I don’t think I have to get the government’s permission to exercise my right to bear arms,” packed about twenty minutes of useful instruction into four long evenings of platitudes, Obama jokes, and belligerent posturing. “The way crime is simply out of control, you can’t afford not to wear a gun all the time,” he told us on several occasions. We shot fifty rounds apiece at man-shaped targets fifteen feet away. The legal-implications segment was taught by a cop who, after warming us up with fart jokes, encouraged us to lie to policemen if stopped while wearing our guns and suggested that nobody in his right mind would let a burglar run off with a big-screen TV. It’s illegal to shoot a fleeing criminal, he said, “but if your aim is good enough, you have time to get your story straight before I [the police] get there.” Thank you for coming; here’s your certificate of instruction. The other class, a three-hour quickie at the Tanner Gun Show in Denver, was built around a fifteen-minute recruiting pitch for the NRA and a long-winded, paranoid fantasy about “home invasion.” “They’re watching what time you come home, what time do you get up to go to the bathroom, when you’re there, when you’re not,” said the instructor, Rob Shewmake, of the Florida company Equip 2 Conceal. “They know who lives in the house. They know where your bedroom is, and they’re there to kill you.” (Eighty-seven Americans were murdered during burglaries in 2008; statistically, you had a better chance of being killed by bees.)

Both classes were less about self-defense than about recruiting us into a culture animated by fear of violent crime. In the Boulder class, we watched lurid films of men in ski masks breaking into homes occupied by terrified women. We studied color police photos of a man slashed open with a knife. Teachers in both classes directed us to websites dedicated to concealed carry, among them usacarry.org, an online gathering place where the gun-carrying community warns, over and over, that crime is “out of control.”

In fact, violent crime has fallen by a third since 1989—one piece of unambiguous good news out of the past two decades. Murder, rape, robbery, assault: all of them are much less common now than they were then. At class, it was hard to discern the line between preparing for something awful to happen and praying for something awful to happen. A desire to carry a gun seemed to precede the fear of crime, the fear serving to justify the carrying. I asked one of the instructors whether carrying a gun didn’t bespeak a needlessly dark view of mankind. “I’m an optimist,” he said, “but we live in a world of assholes.”

At the conclusion of both classes, we students were welcomed into the gun-carrying fraternity as though dripping from the baptismal font. “Thank you for being a part of this, man. You’re doing the right thing,” one of the Boulder teachers said, taking my hand in both of his and looking into my eyes. “You should all be proud of yourselves just for being here,” said the police officer who helped with the class. “All of us thank you.” As we stood shaking hands, with our guns in our gym bags and holding our certificates, we felt proud, included, even loved. We had been admitted to a league of especially useful gentlemen and ladies.

Fried Chicken posted:

Trump gaining ground, Carson and Fiorina fading, Rubio stumbling, Bush a tiny step up, Cruz a longer growth trend

Can't dump the Trump!

Nonsense posted:

Obama will sign into law an act forbidding blacks from owning firearms before the police are ever disarmed.

Raerlynn posted:

/sigh

Michael Brown
Tamir Rice
Eric Garner
Walter Scott
Tamara Seidle

That's five off the top of my head, from paying attention to the news over the past year and a couple months. But yes, I'm totally making up that police kill civilians and face few repercussions. In fact, let me Google that for you.

Raerlynn posted:

/sigh

Michael Brown
Tamir Rice
Eric Garner
Walter Scott
Tamara Seidle

That's five off the top of my head, from paying attention to the news over the past year and a couple months. But yes, I'm totally making up that police kill civilians and face few repercussions. In fact, let me Google that for you.

Also if you could point to where I advocated vigilante justice as opposed to highlighting the growing distrust of the police force, that's be swell.

Nintendo Kid posted:

Nobody is saying the thing you literally just made up was necessary, because it's a thing you made up. What don't you get about this?

Nintendo Kid posted:

None of them would have been helped by shooting at the cops or openly showing off their gun. The cops would have used that for further pretext to murder them. You sound like some middle class white guy who thinks that showing off a gun means no one fucks with you, which doesn't work for black people around the police. You're naive as gently caress.

Toph Bei Fong posted:

I found this article from Harper's on the topic quite interesting. The writer is based out of Boulder, CO

http://harpers.org/archive/2010/08/happiness-is-a-worn-gun/

Lemming posted:

My point is that it's possible to report on this recent news event that happened without making the gunman himself the focus of the story. I think it's a good thing to reduce the infamy that they get by committing these crimes. Many news outlets, however, play up the murderfest. I think it's bad. This isn't exactly a complicated point.

Nintendo Kid posted:

None of them would have been helped by shooting at the cops or openly showing off their gun. The cops would have used that for further pretext to murder them. You sound like some middle class white guy who thinks that showing off a gun means no one fucks with you, which doesn't work for black people around the police. You're naive as gently caress.

Literally The Worst posted:

since you're apparently incapable of understanding sarcasm, i was pretending to be wildly unaware of the fact that the police are murdering people because you going "UH HAVEN'T YOU HEARD" about it was stupid

Raerlynn posted:

\So LOL JUST KIDDING. Man the gently caress up and admit you were wrong shitstain.

Nintendo Kid posted:

He isn't the focus of this story except in your own little head. The focus is the people who died, same as almost always. Also no matter what if you kill a bunch of people you're getting hella infamy, that's impossible to prevent, again, without a massive government coverup of all reporting on all mass murders. It doesn't matter to your fame whether you're immediately named or only named later, withholding the names does nothing but make it so that people guess who it can be, and that leads to harassment of the innocent.

Raerlynn posted:

For someone with a reputation for being so picky about his words you're certainly implying an awful lot about mine. FFS all I said was there are communities that don't trust their police. That's it. Nowhere did I advocate vigilantes. I get you don't like gun laws in this country. Guess what? I think they're pretty dumb too. How about we work on a solution that addresses the mass shooting, the number of fun violence issues in the country, and mental health issues? One that permits the people who live in rural areas that use them responsibly for defense against wild animals, who use them safely for sport, who use them safely to hunt, to continue to do so?


So LOL JUST KIDDING. Man the gently caress up and admit you were wrong shitstain.

Lemming posted:

Taken just now from google news in an incognito window, so shouldn't be any garbage stuffing up the results.

The shooter is obviously a major focus of this story. Claiming he isn't is completely dishonest. Let me reiterate again that I don't think there should be a total blackout of the guy or his name, but it shouldn't be repeatedly plastered everywhere along with pictures of him the way it is now.

Lemming posted:

The shooter is obviously a major focus of this story. Claiming he isn't is completely dishonest.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

I heard if you look in the mirror with the lights off and whisper "Chris Mercer" three times another mass shooting happens in America.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

So have you moved on to 'we must never say his name' to we literally can't say 'the shooter' at all? Like, yea, the shooter had racist poo poo and a lot of guns, that's a fair thing to report.

You tell us what the news should be saying?

"Some people got shot today, very sad, shooter's dead though"?

Literally The Worst posted:

nobody has claimed this at all

Literally The Worst posted:

thats really just more of a timing and statistical thing than magic, though

Rent-A-Cop posted:

American gun laws are a total mess. They are often technically-focused, but written by people who don't actually know anything about guns.

Filthy Hans posted:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34424713

2 survivors have claimed he specifically targeted Christians

Dan Didio posted:

Multiple survivors of Columbine claimed the 'Are you a Christian?' exchange took place as well.

duz posted:

How is that different from any other law not written by an industry lobbying group?

Tatum Girlparts posted:

Yes police reform should also happen, literally no one is arguing this. It doesn't change the fact that regardless of that, 'some people don't trust cops' isn't a counter to 'you're not actually an action movie hero and have better odds of making things worse than better if you start shooting too'.

Raerlynn posted:

I would recommend reviewing the thread on Police Shootings and Racism. You would be surprised to learn that many Americans don't trust their local police to shoot the bad guy. Possibly because many major police precincts don't seem to have any transparency or repercussions when they grossly fail in their duties. See: Eric Garner, Tamir Rice.

Unzip and Attack posted:

2. How in the poo poo is your response to "my police aren't trained enough" naturally "private citizens should pick up the slack!" 

Tatum Girlparts posted:

I've always wondered, Rent-A-Cop and all, I assume you at least agree we should have SOME gun laws. If you have beef with non-experts writing them, who should? Wouldn't the 'experts' in this case all be in the pro-gun industry lobby? Isn't that like saying 'big pharma' should write our healthcare laws?

Raerlynn posted:

For someone with a reputation for being so picky about his words you're certainly implying an awful lot about mine. FFS all I said was there are communities that don't trust their police. That's it. Nowhere did I advocate vigilantes. I get you don't like gun laws in this country. Guess what? I think they're pretty dumb too. How about we work on a solution that addresses the mass shooting, the number of fun violence issues in the country, and mental health issues? One that permits the people who live in rural areas that use them responsibly for defense against wild animals, who use them safely for sport, who use them safely to hunt, to continue to do so?

Lemming posted:

Taken just now from google news in an incognito window, so shouldn't be any garbage stuffing up the results.

The shooter is obviously a major focus of this story. Claiming he isn't is completely dishonest. Let me reiterate again that I don't think there should be a total blackout of the guy or his name, but it shouldn't be repeatedly plastered everywhere along with pictures of him the way it is now.

Lemming posted:

The majority of those articles have the guy's name and picture in the article.

Raerlynn posted:

This is what I said. That many Americans don't trust their local police to shoot the right people. As a refutation of this point specifically:

Fried Chicken posted:

Raerlynn posted:

Which. I also. Did not. Say.


This is what I said. That many Americans don't trust their local police to shoot the right people. As a refutation of this point specifically:


It's not paranoia if they have demonstrated a desire to be out to get you. Which Ferguson demonstrated remarkably well. But somehow pointing out that in many communities fear of the police is well founded makes me the paranoid gun rights activist that advocates for vigilantism... despite owning no guns, agreeing that our gun culture is hosed up, and depressingly resigned that nothing is likely to change.

Dan Didio posted:

Multiple survivors of Columbine claimed the 'Are you a Christian?' exchange took place as well.

Doccers posted:

IMHO the "Golden Age" of guns was the late 1800's to the 1930's, because that's when the lions share of development took place. But everyone's got their own opinion on that I suppose. After that, most of the inventions were really just simplifying manufacturing processes.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

The dude apparently went on about organized religion, it's fair to say this may be genuine, dude.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

It helped him find people but the 'saying his name gives him power' bit wasn't how it worked, his weird fetus bath was all he needed. I guess if shooters start killing everyone who knows their name then we can call it voldemorting them.

Trabisnikof posted:

lilly ledbetter fair pay act, aca, immigration and environmental executive actions were all just to placate donors, no Demonrats actually care about people you see