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Negligent posted:why is a crime committed by a juvenile being treated as terrorism instead of a mental health and gun control problem its so dumb Because there's nothing to be gained from treating it as mental health/societal and everything to be gained by treating it as terrorism (well, unless you consider prevention of recurrence a gain, in which case you're dumb).
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Oct 3, 2015 11:56
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Amethyst posted:I don't have the slightest reservations about abortion whatsoever. I am perfectly fine with late term abortion purely at the mother's discretion. How late?
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Oct 3, 2015 11:59
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Hobo Erotica posted:How late? How old is turnbull?
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Oct 3, 2015 12:16
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Hobo Erotica posted:How late? In the case of certain politicians, after birth.
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Oct 3, 2015 12:16
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Hobo Erotica posted:This is from the end of the last thread, but it's calling it a 'medical procedure' which illustrates the lack of understanding of the issue. It's like calling offshore detention an 'immigration procedure'. That doesn't mean that what it actually entails isn't potentially objectionable. In this case, they're talking about the termination of human foetuses. In their view, life begins at conception. While admittedly debatable, it's not arbitrary or indefensible. Where do you think it begins? At what point would you stop allowing abortions? 14 weeks? 22 weeks? 28 weeks? Full term? Unless it's full term there's a line there somewhere, so what consequences should there be for the parties involved if they cross the line? Seems to me that asking about peoples upbringing and how it informs their beliefs is trying to understand where they're coming from. You're just restating their belief as if it answers the question.
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Oct 3, 2015 13:37
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Unless memento was actually ignorant of the prolife motivation behind the murder of doctors, in which case please ignore the preceding post.
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Oct 3, 2015 13:38
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The pro-life side of the argument actually has it right. We need to be a society that celebrates the creation of life. There are many good arguments against a blanket ban on abortions, but these all relate to either medical or social problems that we haven't yet solved. Abortions work, but only for now, and the ultimate aim for society should be to welcome life wherever it comes from.
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Oct 3, 2015 15:16
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asio posted:Abortions work, but only for now, and the ultimate aim for society should be to welcome life wherever it comes from. *slowly begins to bubble his abominous form from the reeking puddle of noxious ooze that was his mother and vomits a befouled tentacle towards you Frieeeeeeend?
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Oct 3, 2015 15:40
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asio posted:The pro-life side of the argument actually has it right. We need to be a society that celebrates the creation of life. oh okay
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Oct 3, 2015 16:19
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Sure we can respect a woman's agency over her own body for now, but it should only be a stop gap solution
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Oct 3, 2015 20:56
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Guys, the bombing is working http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/unspeakable-msf-nurse-recounts-attack-msfs-kunduz-hospital
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Oct 3, 2015 23:10
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Please get on our Islamophobia level, Ausfailures.
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Oct 3, 2015 23:15
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starkebn posted:Guys, the bombing is working Deradicalisation at it's finest.
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Oct 3, 2015 23:23
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Their motives may be suspect I'm not reading anything there I hope they're unsuccessful with. They could be doing it because the reanimated corpse of a virgin they just sacrificed to their demon-God told them to, I'd still be cool with it.
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Oct 3, 2015 23:29
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I don't get it. While it is a tad dog whistle-y there are some genuinely good things promoted, and money being provided to a bunch of worthy causes.
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Oct 3, 2015 23:31
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BARBARIC CULTURAL PRACTICES 
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Oct 3, 2015 23:51
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asio posted:The pro-life side of the argument actually has it right. We need to be a society that celebrates the creation of life. Tell that to a woman who got raped and is pregnant with her rapists kid.
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Oct 4, 2015 00:00
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tithin posted:Tell that to your mother. fixed?
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Oct 4, 2015 00:03
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tithin posted:Tell that to a woman who got raped and is pregnant with her rapists kid. I guess 'crime' is one of those social problems that we haven't yet solved.
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Oct 4, 2015 00:06
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Unimpressed posted:BARBARIC CULTURAL PRACTICES Granted, they're dog whistling, but FGM is totally hosed up and needs to be stopped.
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Oct 4, 2015 01:58
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Sometimes lovely people stumble into doing something good. Sometimes lovely people aren't completely lovely people and still want to do good despite their reasons being misguided. If they were using it as a cover to secretly sterilize Muslims that'd be hosed up but unless there's a lot of fine print there I missed they just want to prevent some poo poo I think we can all agree is heinous and get some racist votes along the way. Speaking of racist votes have the police released any information about why they raided the mosque in connection with the murder yesterday?
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Oct 4, 2015 02:11
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I suggest looking up #barbaricculturalpractices on twitter, it's getting exactly the kind of reaction it deserves.
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Oct 4, 2015 03:00
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FGM is A Thing but it's not A Muslim Thing. It's generally a certain-lovely-parts-of-Africa thing and is done by Christian communities etc as much as Muslim communities. They're using a lot of dogwhistle stuff though (BARBARIC CULTURAL PRACTICES) so it's obvious what they are actually angling for, despite their stated goals being (for the main part) not too outwardly objectionable.
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Oct 4, 2015 03:04
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CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:FGM is A Thing but it's not A Muslim Thing. It's generally a certain-lovely-parts-of-Africa thing and is done by Christian communities etc as much as Muslim communities. They're using a lot of dogwhistle stuff though (BARBARIC CULTURAL PRACTICES) so it's obvious what they are actually angling for, despite their stated goals being (for the main part) not too outwardly objectionable. I agree to an extent, except when it comes to Southeast Asia--FGM affects 90-odd percent of muslim women in Indonesia and Malaysia (with it at 85% and 57% among the general female population in those countries respectively), so it is basically a religious practice in those countries. It's more of a cultural practice in Africa, but it certainly spread along with the spread of Islam into other parts of the world.
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Oct 4, 2015 03:18
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I'm not the only one extremely uncomfortable with the fact that the media seem to be 100% ok with an adult policeman gunning down a 15 year old ostensibly because that's the only 'safe' way they have of stopping someone with a gun, right? Also this: "“We believe that his actions were politically motivated and therefore linked to terrorism,” Scipione told reporters in Sydney on Saturday." From http://gu.com/p/4dxg7/sbl A loving fifteen year old?? It beggars belief that a kid could be reasonably expected to have any kind of credible opinion about his own rear end let alone politics. Surely.
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Oct 4, 2015 03:53
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nyerf posted:I'm not the only one extremely uncomfortable with the fact that the media seem to be 100% ok with an adult policeman gunning down a 15 year old ostensibly because that's the only 'safe' way they have of stopping someone with a gun, right? What other method would you suggest for dealing with someone armed with a deadly weapon who has already used it to kill someone, please?
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Oct 4, 2015 04:09
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Yeah I can't really criticise the reaction of the police in this situation, they didn't realistically appear to have much in the way of choices, unfortunately.
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Oct 4, 2015 04:17
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nyerf posted:I'm not the only one extremely uncomfortable with the fact that the media seem to be 100% ok with an adult policeman gunning down a 15 year old ostensibly because that's the only 'safe' way they have of stopping someone with a gun, right? Think of the kid as the weapon rather than the wielder. The kid was just a kid. The people that put him up to it are the terrorists. If you know the details of the the shooting please post them because without them we have no way of knowing whether it was a case of trigger happy police or not. If the kid was shooting at the cops at the time then yes, shooting him back is the only safe way to end the situation. You can't get close enough to taze someone when they're shooting at you. You can't get close enough to pepper spray them and as far as I know NSW police are not equipped with that cool non-lethal foam. If the Police could have reasonable brought him in alive they would have.
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Oct 4, 2015 04:18
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Here's what I found on the ABC:quote:Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione said the lone gunman, who is yet to be identified, shot the police employee at close range as he was leaving the building around 4:30pm on Friday. In an unprepared scenario where someone armed with a gun has already indicated they are willing to use lethal force and has shot at you, literally the only safe option you have is shooting back and when you shoot at someone you shoot to kill. Some people get romantic notions that the police should "shoot to wound", ignoring the fact that a) guns are deadly weapons, shooting someone in what is meant to be a "non-lethal" way can often lead to death regardless, b) said "non-lethal" methods of shooting are more difficult than shooting centre-of-mass, increasing the chance that the shot will miss and hit an unintended target and c) even if you hit him non-lethally there's no guarantee you've stopped the gunman. Great, you shot him in the leg, oops he's just dropped to the ground and is still shooting at you, now you have to shoot to kill anyway. It's a tragedy that this event has happened and it's a tragedy that all the usual fuckheads are going to crawl out of the woodwork and talk about how Muslims can't be trusted etc. and continue the cycle of marginalising Islam in our society, contributing to the radicalisation that leads to incidents like these, and I'm definitely no apologist for everything cops do, but in the circumstances the police made the best of a bad situation and they're definitely not at fault here.
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Oct 4, 2015 04:33
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I don't disagree. Obviously there was no winning for any side in this scenario, all said and done, least until more details emerge. I'm not saying there should have been some kind of hostage negotiator magic movie rescue scenario. I just have the sinking feeling that the patina of 'politically-motivated TERRORISM' could potentially be used to whitewash this and any other further scenarios that conceivably could contain elements of police negligence to completely justify the use of any force. As in, just because a brown Muslim was involved, child or not, noone is going to ask the difficult questions or ask about the finer details, everything's fair game, South Park-esque blow away anything that looks threatening it'll be a-OK. I'm hoping it doesn't come to that.
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Oct 4, 2015 04:58
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No I think it's because he walked up and shot an unarmed man in the head 10 seconds beforehand, not because he was a brown Muslim
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Oct 4, 2015 05:16
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I feel like the time to start getting concerned about police misuse of deadly force against Muslims is after a situation where it is not clear that they did not misuse deadly force.  e: I appreciate your concern but there's no point worrying about a hypothetical situation in which the context was entirely different, or else you'll find yourself spiralling into a million different possibilities all of which end with the same verdict: 
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Oct 4, 2015 06:25
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People are asking whether this is one of the weekly national security reportables right?
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Oct 4, 2015 07:00
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starkebn posted:People are asking whether this is one of the weekly national security reportables right? New PM
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Oct 4, 2015 07:07
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Scott Morrison encourages states to let private sector run schools and hospitals The finance minister, Mathias Cormann, says the idea would include providers competing with each other to deliver better health services hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Oct 4, 2015 07:41
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As with the Lindt siege speculation is both unworthy and ultimately disrespectful to the people involved. http://www.lindtinquest.justice.nsw.gov.au/ Hard to draw conclusions about even that yet because, unfortunately it is still ongoing. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-26/experts-divided-over-sydney-siege-as-terrorism-or-mental-illness/6726772 quote:Sydney siege inquest: Experts divided on whether Lindt Cafe attack was terrorism or result of mental illness By Jessica Kidd Updated 26 Aug 2015, 4:35pm If Farhad Jabar Khali Mohammad was a terrorist then it shows just how close to the bottom of the barrel IS are. They were quick to claim credit for similar pointless killings in Bangladesh. Clearly I know gently caress all about his connections with the 'Death Cult' but they are not particularly apparent yet and certainly haven't been established in Monis' case. I worry that the definition of terrorist just took a considerable turn for the ugly* and will be marking the cards of any supposed jounalist or politician who runs with it. They don't know. * Broad to the point of the ridiculous. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-02/teenager-jailed-for-at-least-five-years-over-anzac-day-plot/6824752 But these days over reaction is pretty much a norm. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-20/melbourne-counterterrorism-raids-plot-to-kill-police-officer/6407586 I haven't seen all the evidence but really, "The boy was only 14 when he masterminded the plot, to carry out a suicide attack on police officers at the parade, from his bedroom in northern England." If only he had had more land  Lid posted:Scott Morrison encourages states to let private sector run schools and hospitals 
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Oct 4, 2015 07:47
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If Tone was still prime minister we would be bombing paramatta by now. Also where is the NRL thread?
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Oct 4, 2015 08:12
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Lid posted:Scott Morrison encourages states to let private sector run schools and hospitals It worked with telecommunications, right? ...right?
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Oct 4, 2015 08:17
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Look how the free(laptop) market fixed vocational education.
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Oct 4, 2015 08:23
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Jumpingmanjim posted:If Tone was still prime minister we would be bombing paramatta by now. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3693716
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Oct 4, 2015 08:40
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