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DeusExMachinima posted:Registration ain't gonna happen. The feds closed the machine gun registry despite there being no evidence of machine guns being common in crime. That dog don't hunt no more. Oh I agree, but there's no reason it shouldn't happen. You have to loving register to scrap copper for fucks sake. The only reason its untenable is that loving redneck idiots are convinced that redcoats are coming to take their Sigs. Ridiculous.
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Oct 3, 2015 16:35
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Yup. Not all of them are unaware. For the others, banning or at least heavily disincentivizing and inconveniencing private sales is the point and if you remove that, why bother?
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Oct 3, 2015 16:37
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LeeMajors posted:Oh I agree, but there's no reason it shouldn't happen. You have to loving register to scrap copper for fucks sake. No, like, that's what I'm saying. Before the registry was closed (thus creating a limited supply with skyrocketing prices) machine guns were legally obtainable assuming you could pay an additional $200 sin tax to the ATF. Now they're not, at least not legally. It's effectively a ban by way of a registry even though no guns were taken when a pre-1986 manufacture sheet metal MAC-10 costs $5,000. So nobody on the progun side is willing to accept registries today.
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Oct 3, 2015 16:40
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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"MSF condemns in the strongest possible terms the horrific bombing of its hospital in Kunduz full of staff and patients. MSF wishes to clarify that all parties to the conflict, including in Kabul and Washington, were clearly informed of the precise location (GPS Coordinates) of the MSF facilities - hospital, guesthouse, office and an outreach stabilization unit in Chardara (to the north-west of Kunduz). As MSF does in all conflict contexts, these precise locations were communicated to all parties on multiple occasions over the past months, including most recently on 29 September. The bombing continued for more than 30 minutes after American and Afghan military officials in Kabul and Washington were first informed. MSF urgently seeks clarity on exactly what took place and how this terrible event could have happened.” http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/oct/03/msf-staff-killed-in-suspected-us-strike-on-afghan-hospital-latest
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Oct 3, 2015 16:47
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icantfindaname posted:This is a few pages old, but what terms exactly are we talking about that Trump could demand if he gets 30% of the vote? If he were a normal candidate, high ranking positions in the administration, legislative priorities, commitment to full support for a pet project or future run (think what Hillary got from Obama) Trump, who the gently caress knows. Hence 
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Oct 3, 2015 16:48
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LeeMajors posted:The only reason its untenable is that loving redneck idiots are convinced that redcoats are coming to take their Sigs. Ridiculous. For example, California law requires handguns sold in CA be certified by the state for safety. The result of this is the state of California demanding manufacturers submit dozens of samples at their own expense, simply refusing to certify things without reason, and requiring re-certification for cosmetic changes. It is simply a "gently caress you and gently caress your guns you fuckers" law under the guise of safety. Why should gun owners agree to a registry when there is a very recent history of the federal government using a registry as a ban? It wasn't even a registry of things that ever get used in crime, and the feds still closed it because gently caress you that's why. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Oct 3, 2015 |
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Oct 3, 2015 16:49
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Killer robot posted:Not all of them are unaware. For the others, banning or at least heavily disincentivizing and inconveniencing private sales is the point and if you remove that, why bother? If making it so that people either choose to pay a private organization in order to transfer firearms or simply transfer a firearm without filing paperwork is your goal, that's a good point. If you like the idea that persons with backgrounds that prohibit gun ownership would no longer feel comfortable asking Joe Citizen for a gun at a gun show or on craigslist for fear that Joe Citizen will think it HIGHLY suspect that someone would refuse to do 5 minutes of phone calls to get a gun and call the cops, then the system I described is a pretty good one.
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Oct 3, 2015 16:51
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DeusExMachinima posted:No, like, that's what I'm saying. Before the registry was closed (thus creating a limited supply with skyrocketing prices) machine guns were legally obtainable assuming you could pay an additional $200 sin tax to the ATF. Now they're not, at least not legally. It's effectively a ban by way of a registry even though no guns were taken when a pre-1986 manufacture sheet metal MAC-10 costs $5,000. So nobody on the progun side is willing to accept registries today. Interestingly, the cost of these weapons has resulted in none of them being used in mass shootings as far as I can tell. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the problem isn't guns persay, its that firearms and their accessories are cheap. Militarization of police? Equipment is too cheap. Chicago a violent hellscape? Your choice is making food or bullets prohibitively expensive for troubled people. (Which does the NRA pick  )Mass shootings? Why is it so inexpensive to load yourself up like Neo? Need subsistance hunting? Government can subsidize or not tax tools that are most useful for hunting. The problem is cultural only in the way that the NRA is the biggest example of regulatory capture AND market distortion in the modern world. So badly that their product kills more than terrorism and we beg them to make such things even less expensive. You dont need to take peoples rights away, you dont need to solve the basic flaws in the collective human psyche. You just need to reject the NRA's narrative which exists to perpetuate itself.
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Oct 3, 2015 16:56
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http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/gun-control-advocates-dont-say-nothings-changed Obama's not shutting up, not taking bullshit arguments, wants us to be single issue voters for years if needed to change this.
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Oct 3, 2015 16:58
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dogs named Charlie posted:http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/gun-control-advocates-dont-say-nothings-changed Senioritis Obama is my favorite Obama
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Oct 3, 2015 17:10
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RuanGacho posted:Interestingly, the cost of these weapons has resulted in none of them being used in mass shootings as far as I can tell. It should enlighten people new to the debate how quickly the narrative turns to "poor people shouldn't be able to afford guns."
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Oct 3, 2015 17:17
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RuanGacho posted:Interestingly, the cost of these weapons has resulted in none of them being used in mass shootings as far as I can tell. It turns out $200 and a background check is too high a hurdle for most future murderers to clear.
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Oct 3, 2015 17:18
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RedQueen posted:"MSF condemns in the strongest possible terms the horrific bombing of its hospital in Kunduz full of staff and patients. MSF wishes to clarify that all parties to the conflict, including in Kabul and Washington, were clearly informed of the precise location (GPS Coordinates) of the MSF facilities - hospital, guesthouse, office and an outreach stabilization unit in Chardara (to the north-west of Kunduz). As MSF does in all conflict contexts, these precise locations were communicated to all parties on multiple occasions over the past months, including most recently on 29 September. I was willing to blame this on bad intel or a gently caress up until I read the report. That'll teach me go and believe the least horrible possibility!
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Oct 3, 2015 17:18
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The real problem is that no notable elections that I'm aware of have been lost because someone was a knee-jerk against any kind of regulation of gun availability, but many have arguably been lost because of advocating any kind of change to the status quo in the opposite direction of "mandate that guns be purchased and carried by all citizens at all times everywhere", and as a result the position in favor of any regulation has conceded the field to the NRA for years now. This was an understandable move by the Democrats in my opinion that I agreed with from a standpoint of strategy and political realism, and Obama was no different as a candidate, but things are so ridiculous that I think that time is past. Nothing will change until some GOP candidate loses the Presidential race or some high profile Senate or Governor race because they were being a reactionary dick about guns and it can be reasonably established that this was the reason.
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Oct 3, 2015 17:20
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SedanChair posted:It should enlighten people new to the debate how quickly the narrative turns to "poor people shouldn't be able to afford guns." "Step on it Jeeves, the corner boys have seen us!"
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Oct 3, 2015 17:22
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Young Freud posted:A former student of Francis that is in a same-sex relationship, at that. It's good to know even the Pope has a Gay Guy Friend though. 
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Oct 3, 2015 17:25
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With regards to the gun debate and sensationalizing the killers in the media, I find it a little ironic that this NYT piece How They Got Their Guns intends to make a case for increasing the strictness of background checks, but ends up reading more like a Call of Duty killfeed.
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Oct 3, 2015 17:30
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Rent-A-Cop posted:It's untenable because a history of bad faith bullshit. What's wrong with banning guns?
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Oct 3, 2015 17:30
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Hollismason posted:What's wrong with banning guns? Well, be up front about it at the very least.
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Oct 3, 2015 17:32
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Evil Fluffy posted:It's good to know even the Pope has a Gay Guy Friend though. They fired that gay friend for talking about it. Oops. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/03/vatican-preist-gay-idUSL5N1230E020151003 quote:The Vatican said the dismissal had nothing to do with Charasma's reflections on his personal life, which it said "merit respect". Edit: poo poo, wrong guy. Pohl fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 3, 2015 17:33
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I learned how to shoot a gun before I learned how to ride a bike. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't just completely stop the manufacture of all guns and all gun sales. Someone's inconvience doesn't have more weight than human life. If your dedicated to hunting and target shooting then you'll go out of your way to save or purchase a gun. Then you have to be registered, placed in a federal background check, have no history of mental illness, have no history of extremist views, have no history of domestic violence then you can buy your gun.
Hollismason fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Oct 3, 2015 |
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Oct 3, 2015 17:33
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Pohl posted:They fired that gay friend for talking about it. Oops. You're talking about an entirely different person with that article.
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Oct 3, 2015 17:39
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SedanChair posted:It should enlighten people new to the debate how quickly the narrative turns to "poor people shouldn't be able to afford guns." No one should be able to afford guns, my gun tax rate is 100% of your disposable income. Now only the state designating required work can afford guns. You caught me I'm trying to take all the guns away. computer parts posted:Well, be up front about it at the very least. Im trying to actually do something for the public good here, if anything I need to lie more to meet the status quo.
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Oct 3, 2015 17:43
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computer parts posted:Well, be up front about it at the very least. I'm reading this as "why are you promoting policies that are a compromise of your true wishes, in order to engage in politics and get anything done?"
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Oct 3, 2015 17:50
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KiteAuraan posted:I was willing to blame this on bad intel or a gently caress up until I read the report. That'll teach me go and believe the least horrible possibility! I'm honestly surprised this is making the news. Americans have really bought into the lie that their bombs are 'smart' and they only kill bad people now. I want loving heads rolling over this and I hope the president takes that approach and takes responsibility.
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Oct 3, 2015 17:51
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RedQueen posted:"MSF condemns in the strongest possible terms the horrific bombing of its hospital in Kunduz full of staff and patients. MSF wishes to clarify that all parties to the conflict, including in Kabul and Washington, were clearly informed of the precise location (GPS Coordinates) of the MSF facilities - hospital, guesthouse, office and an outreach stabilization unit in Chardara (to the north-west of Kunduz). As MSF does in all conflict contexts, these precise locations were communicated to all parties on multiple occasions over the past months, including most recently on 29 September. Screw gun control, let's focus on bomb control. quote:Need subsistance hunting? Government can subsidize or not tax tools that are most useful for hunting. I am not a book fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Oct 3, 2015 |
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Oct 3, 2015 17:54
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Hollismason posted:What's wrong with banning guns? It triggers TFR's fears/murder porn fantasies of 'Murica turning into a Nazi police state where they will be rounded up into cattle cars and destroyed. They talk about "slippery slopes" like they're literally standing on the peak of Mount Gunsalot, and if they move, they'll fall and die. 'Murica will lose its freedoms, such as speech, property, healthcare, and white Christian hegemony, just like in France, Canada, Great Britain, and Australia!  Edit: they're knocking on my door now... Oh God, I wish I had a gun to defend myself... 
Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Oct 3, 2015 |
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Oct 3, 2015 17:59
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I am not a book posted:Screw gun control, let's focus on bomb control. I'm starting to feel like a parody Sanders account.  :Let me tell you how the problem can be reduced to economics! War machines are too inexpensive!...  : what do you mean the GOP just passed an infinite budget for the military?...  : My theories!I am not a book posted:So you're cool with keeping semiautomatic long guns with pistol grips and silencers legal? For the sake of keeping the new regulatory regime possible if dreamwork? Yes. Getting into equipment details just opens it up to piling in ignorance and theoreticals, the goal is to remove the NRA from influence, not invoke a populist uprising from militia LARPers. As a side note if they're such good hunters why do they need more than one shot at a time, hmm? RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Oct 3, 2015 |
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Oct 3, 2015 18:00
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I'm an Oregonian. We are a very pro-gun state, largely because of the outdoors culture here (and the rednecks). I'm kinda in the middle on the Gun debate, everyone on the pro-gun side sees me as anti-gun and everyone on the anti-gun side thinks I'm pro-gun. My views basically come down to this; All automatic weapons and semi-automatic handguns manufactured in the past 50 years should require licensing, have their initial sale documented as well as any person to person sales (once something falls out of that 50 year range the chance of it being used in any sort of crime pretty much drops to zero and I don't think we need to be policing people's antique collections). In addition, those who wish to own or handle these sorts of weapons must submit to a federal criminal background check, a gun safety examination and a 30 day waiting period before their first gun purchase. Any additional purchases should require a 48 hour waiting period and a standard criminal background check. If you go a year between purchasing firearms, you are treated as a first-time purchaser. Revolvers and non-automatic long guns manufactured in the past 50 years should have their initial sale documented. Buyers must submit to a standard criminal background check and a 24 hour waiting period. Also, no sell-lists for persons with documented ongoing mental health concerns or suspected involvement with organized crime (including gangs). Fake Edit: I'm on the fence about just basically making everyone who wants to buy anything deadlier than a revolver or non-automatic long gun get a concealed carry permit first. Real Edit: The Self-Defense rationale is dumb, but so is backpacking in bear country without a revolver. Fox Ironic fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Oct 3, 2015 |
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Oct 3, 2015 18:04
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I'm reading this as "why are you promoting policies that are a compromise of your true wishes, in order to engage in politics and get anything done?" What other policies require one side to obfuscate their true goals in order to compromise? All I can think of right now is abortion, and that's on the pro-life side.
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Oct 3, 2015 18:05
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pathetic little tramp posted:I'm honestly surprised this is making the news. Americans have really bought into the lie that their bombs are 'smart' and they only kill bad people now. From what I've read it was likely hit by a gunship doing close support of US and Afghan special forces. It would be interesting to see if it was a miss or if someone actually called the hospital as a target. Fox Ironic posted:Also, no sell-lists for persons ... suspected involvement with organized crime (including gangs). I guess that would rule out Juggalos too, which leaves me torn. I am opposed to arbitrary restrictions on constitutional rights, but I am in favor of anything that harms Juggalos. Why does politics have to be so hard? Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Oct 3, 2015 |
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Oct 3, 2015 18:07
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Mister Macys posted:Rockstar has vodka drinks in Canada. We also have 4Loko, but I haven't checked the ingredients list on them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LOYh7zhwF0 This has been in my favorites list for two years.
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Oct 3, 2015 18:09
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when asked if there would be another shutdown back in 2013?
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computer parts posted:What other policies require one side to obfuscate their true goals in order to compromise? All I can think of right now is abortion, and that's on the pro-life side. That's not obfuscating their goals, though. I imagine Elizabeth Warren would love to drag all those captains of finance responsible for the Great Recession by their golden parachutes and dump them in the Vesuvius, but she's pushing for more moderate policies without people saying "oh, you're just doing that because you want to get at all the bankers!" Politics is the realm of the possible, ranting about people's impossible wishes like they're proof there's no point in doing anything with them is a cop-out.
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Oct 3, 2015 18:18
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Star Man posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LOYh7zhwF0 Thanks. In return: 
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Oct 3, 2015 18:19
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RuanGacho posted:No one should be able to afford guns, my gun tax rate is 100% of your disposable income. Congrats, you're why pro-gunners will never agree to middle ground controls.
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Oct 3, 2015 18:23
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Yes, that's totally the reason.
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Oct 3, 2015 18:27
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DeusExMachinima posted:Congrats, you're why pro-gunners will never agree to middle ground controls. Yea you caught us, we were juuuuust about to get some reasonable gun control passed but then we let Random Retard Online say a thing and it just blew it all up. Alternative joke: so you're saying gun owners are so thin skinned and prone to overreaction that an unrelated internet post from a nobody queers the whole deal?
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Oct 3, 2015 18:31
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Pro gun people are shrinking because of their obsession with instruments of death and hero fantasies involving them. From the outside it looks really gross, like an anime pillow guy. What's growing are gun owners who recognize that not everyone should be able to kill so easily.
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Oct 3, 2015 18:32
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Maarek posted:Yes, that's totally the reason. Decades worth of gun-control legislation made in bad faith by coastal Liberals who never handled a gun themselves have poisoned the well when it comes to reform. Nothing will change, death is certain.
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Oct 3, 2015 18:34
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Zeno-25 posted:Decades worth of gun-control legislation made in bad faith by coastal Liberals who never handled a gun themselves have poisoned the well when it comes to reform. Nothing will change, death is certain. Like Reagan?
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Oct 3, 2015 18:36
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