p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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brap: Aug 23, 2004; Grimey Drawer

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

how do you enforce using a linter for bracing without a really long bikeshedding discussion about bracing

just work on a platform that has an established convention for bracing style, use it and don't broker any loving arguments

# ? Oct 3, 2015 18:20

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# ? May 18, 2024 07:22

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Brain Candy posted:

"i have picked this [formatting style], does anybody have a super strong objection? <some people whine, but most people don't give a poo poo>"

what programmers do you work with and i can i work with them too

# ? Oct 3, 2015 18:33

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

camel case or snake case?
if camel case: lower of upper case first letter?

string concatenation operator at the end of the previous line or at the start of the new line?

if chaining method calls (in java/javascript at least), dot at end of the previous line or at the start of the new line?

getProperty() and setProperty(newProperty), or just property() and property(newProperty)?

# ? Oct 3, 2015 18:36

jony neuemonic: Nov 13, 2009

Mr Dog posted:

what programmers do you work with and i can i work with them too

# ? Oct 3, 2015 18:40

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

Wheany posted:

getProperty() and setProperty(newProperty), or just property() and property(newProperty)?

neither, preferably

# ? Oct 3, 2015 18:41

jony neuemonic: Nov 13, 2009

Wheany posted:

camel case or snake case?
if camel case: lower of upper case first letter?

kinda pedantic but i'm actually curious, is it still camel case if the first letter is upper case?

# ? Oct 3, 2015 18:44

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Wheany posted:

getProperty() and setProperty(newProperty), or just property() and property(newProperty)?

the biggest mistake in both java and c# is differentiating between fields and methods. accessors should be mandatory i.e. the compiler creates one transparently depending on the permissions you assign to a field

it shouldn't be possible to create an actual field accessible from outside the class

# ? Oct 3, 2015 18:58

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

gently caress javascript

# ? Oct 3, 2015 19:05

substitute: Aug 30, 2003; you for my mum

jony neuemonic posted:

kinda pedantic but i'm actually curious, is it still camel case if the first letter is upper case?

Sorry, I meant StudlyCaps, or StudlyCase.

substitute fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Oct 3, 2015

# ? Oct 3, 2015 19:30

ultramiraculous: Nov 12, 2003; "No..."; Grimey Drawer

Soricidus posted:

im glad i live in a civilised country where this kind of thing would be illegal as gently caress

right to work, bitches

# ? Oct 3, 2015 20:25

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

jony neuemonic posted:

kinda pedantic but i'm actually curious, is it still camel case if the first letter is upper case?

that's pascal case

# ? Oct 3, 2015 20:30

Max Facetime: Apr 18, 2009

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

the biggest mistake in both java and c# is differentiating between fields and methods. accessors should be mandatory i.e. the compiler creates one transparently depending on the permissions you assign to a field

it shouldn't be possible to create an actual field accessible from outside the class

that's a pretty drastic restriction to impose just because a language doesn't have virtual fields, IMHO

# ? Oct 3, 2015 20:32

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

ultramiraculous posted:

right to work, bitches

right-to-work is about undermining collective bargaining, it's not directly related to at-will employment (though they're both great examples of newspeak being used to trick the working class into voting against its own interests)

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

the biggest mistake in both java and c# is differentiating between fields and methods. accessors should be mandatory i.e. the compiler creates one transparently depending on the permissions you assign to a field

it shouldn't be possible to create an actual field accessible from outside the class

kind of agreed, but only for getters. writing setters should require ridiculous amounts of manual boilerplate in order to discourage their use except where genuinely necessary.

# ? Oct 3, 2015 20:42

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Soricidus posted:

kind of agreed, but only for getters. writing setters should require ridiculous amounts of manual boilerplate in order to discourage their use except where genuinely necessary.

i'm ok with this

i just want to live in a world where the interface for a class can only include method signatures. not magic data that could be written at any time behind my back

# ? Oct 3, 2015 20:47

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Max Facetime posted:

that's a pretty drastic restriction to impose just because a language doesn't have virtual fields, IMHO

i don't know what a virtual field is and google makes it sound like a dumb and lovely thing

all field access should be forced to pass through accessors so i can change the implementation later without worrying about the class interface so much

give people less rope to hang themselves

# ? Oct 3, 2015 20:48

Fergus Mac Roich: Nov 5, 2008; Soiled Meat

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

i'm ok with this

i just want to live in a world where the interface for a class can only include method signatures. not magic data that could be written at any time behind my back

how about static final

# ? Oct 3, 2015 21:45

Max Facetime: Apr 18, 2009

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

i don't know what a virtual field is and google makes it sound like a dumb and lovely thing

all field access should be forced to pass through accessors so i can change the implementation later without worrying about the class interface so much

give people less rope to hang themselves

i dunno if virtual fields exists either but to allow the type of the field to be runtime polymorphic the field needs to be virtual

with reads and writes being dynamically dispatched a runtime subfieldtype could replay them a second time in unmapped memory, causing a signal to be raised and letting you know when someone is accessing the field

# ? Oct 3, 2015 22:41

pepito sanchez: Apr 3, 2004; I'm not mexican

lazy loading, at least for c#

holy poo poo after google searching i guess every non-final method is virtual in java by default. ok

# ? Oct 3, 2015 22:53

Maluco Marinero: Jan 18, 2001; Damn that's a
fine elephant.

Only got the one junior employee admittedly, but moving to take this approach from Phabricator with stuff, re linting and config.

quote:

Good linter integration means that code is pretty much mechanically correct by the time any reviewer sees it, provides clear rules about style which are especially helpful to new authors, and has the overall effect of pushing discussion away from stylistic nitpicks and toward useful examination of large ideas.

It can also provide a straightforward solution to arguments about style, if you adopt a policy like this:

If a rule is important enough that it should be enforced, the proponent must add it to lint so it is automatically detected or fixed in the future and no one has to argue about it ever again.If it's not important enough for them to do the legwork to add it to lint, they have to stop complaining about it.

This may or may not be an appropriate methodology to adopt at your organization, but it generally puts the incentives in the right places.

Also using editorconfig.org to set everyone's editors to the correct defaults for tabs, spaces, trailing whitespace, etc.

Seems okay I guess.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 00:08

qntm: Jun 17, 2009

Unfortunately there's always an intermediate "the rule is important but the linter doesn't support it" condition.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 00:31

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Tiny Bug Child posted:

(i'm brushing up on R)

nice

# ? Oct 4, 2015 00:36

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Fergus Mac Roich posted:

how about static final

still not cool

# ? Oct 4, 2015 01:52

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

it shouldn't be possible to create an actual field accessible from outside the class

You'll take my structs away from my cold dead hands.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 01:53

pepito sanchez: Apr 3, 2004; I'm not mexican

R sucks and can't possibly have become popular if it wasn't easily applicable in data analysis. i gave up on R early on and started on python for DA. please tell me if i'm missing out on something other than a few loving libraries that make some computations a little faster. terrible programmer posting so please just tell me why R means a poo poo, because i see it taught at university and it tops out benchmarks like that still means anything et cetera

# ? Oct 4, 2015 02:04

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

my impression is that R is the bash scripting of it's domain.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 02:10

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

is R basher than excel?

# ? Oct 4, 2015 02:16

Brain Candy: May 18, 2006

Mr Dog posted:

what programmers do you work with and i can i work with them too

underpaid ones, and maybe you will soon!

# ? Oct 4, 2015 02:28

MrMoo: Sep 14, 2000

tef posted:

my impression is that R is the bash scripting of it's domain.

This is a good analogy, R is interpreted script with high speed functions so the goal is to keep the runtime executing functions and not your code.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 02:37

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

MrMoo posted:

This is a good analogy, R is interpreted script with high speed functions so the goal is to keep the runtime executing functions and not your code.

i was more aiming for

- it's awful and the result of being hacked on ad-hoc with no real design
- it's entrenched and everywhere
- most of the scripts you will encounter will be terse masterpieces of code, written to be disposable but never left to die in peace.
- you can likely google and copy and paste with a high success rate

# ? Oct 4, 2015 02:41

pepito sanchez: Apr 3, 2004; I'm not mexican

MrMoo posted:

This is a good analogy, R is interpreted script with high speed functions so the goal is to keep the runtime executing functions and not your code.

so it's a little faster running interpreted code on rstudio than ipython -- for one or a couple of fields of study. is that all R is? i still can't see a good enough reason to use R unless i'm being forced to.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 02:42

AWWNAW: Dec 30, 2008

I watched some Alan Kay talk tonight, it was quite inspiring and fueled my hate for bureaucracy and development methodologies

but he works for SAP now

# ? Oct 4, 2015 02:58

No Pants: Dec 10, 2000

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

i don't know what a virtual field is and google makes it sound like a dumb and lovely thing

all field access should be forced to pass through accessors so i can change the implementation later without worrying about the class interface so much

give people less rope to hang themselves

doesn't idiomatic C# encourage what you want anyway with properties, or is that not enough

# ? Oct 4, 2015 03:27

compuserved: Mar 20, 2006; Nap Ghost

tef posted:

i was more aiming for

- it's awful and the result of being hacked on ad-hoc with no real design
- it's entrenched and everywhere
- most of the scripts you will encounter will be terse masterpieces of code, written to be disposable but never left to die in peace.
- you can likely google and copy and paste with a high success rate

i use R often and all of this is true

# ? Oct 4, 2015 04:15

Athas: Aug 6, 2007; fuck that joker

pepito sanchez posted:

R sucks and can't possibly have become popular if it wasn't easily applicable in data analysis. i gave up on R early on and started on python for DA. please tell me if i'm missing out on something other than a few loving libraries that make some computations a little faster. terrible programmer posting so please just tell me why R means a poo poo, because i see it taught at university and it tops out benchmarks like that still means anything et cetera

Some people like R (I used it a little) because it is better than Matlab. As in, it feels slightly more like a real language, and not just glue for getting library functions to stick to each other. But Python is even better for that purpose, so don't look back.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 08:01

fritz: Jul 26, 2003

the reasons to use r include:

* ggplot
* all those cran packages

also ime basic exploratory data analysis is a lot easier in r than in python, things like linear regressions etc

# ? Oct 4, 2015 14:45

qntm: Jun 17, 2009

tef posted:

my impression is that R is the bash scripting of it's domain.

ouch

# ? Oct 4, 2015 15:49

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

tef posted:

i was more aiming for

- it's awful and the result of being hacked on ad-hoc with no real design
- it's entrenched and everywhere
- most of the scripts you will encounter will be terse masterpieces of code, written to be disposable but never left to die in peace.
- you can likely google and copy and paste with a high success rate

also someone somewhere has written a script with the exact statistical technique you need

except it's completely unintelligible.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 16:34

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

oh em gee, java streams (and lambdas and all that) are kind of good

i didn't really know or care what they were until idea told me that a loop like this

Java code:

for(Object o: collectionContainingButtsButAlsoOtherThings) {
	if(o instanceof LeftCheek) {
		((LeftCheek) o).spread();
	}
}

could be replaced with a stream-filter-forEach chain. i let it do it and it was p. neat.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 20:03

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

http://sarah.thesharps.us/2015/10/05/closing-a-door/

quote:

Closing a door

This post has been sitting in my drafts folder for a year now. It has never been the right time to post this. I have always been worried about the backlash. I�ve skirted around talking about this issue publicly for some time, but not acknowledging the elephant in the room has eaten away at me a bit. So, here goes.

Here�s the deal: I�m not a Linux kernel developer any more. I quietly transferred the maintainership of the USB 3.0 host controller driver in May 2014. In January 2015, I stepped down from being the Linux kernel coordinator for the FOSS Outreach Program for Women (OPW), and moved up to help coordinate the overall Outreachy program. As of December 6 2014, I gave what I hope is my last presentation on Linux kernel development. I was asked to help coordinate the Linux Plumbers Conference in Seattle in August 2015, and I said no. My Linux Foundation Technical Advisory Board (TAB) term is soon over, and I will not be running for re-election.

Given the choice, I would never send another patch, bug report, or suggestion to a Linux kernel mailing list again. My personal boxes have oopsed with recent kernels, and I ignore it. My current work on userspace graphics enabling may require me to send an occasional quirks kernel patch, but I know I will spend at least a day dreading the potential toxic background radiation of interacting with the kernel community before I send anything.

I am no longer a part of the Linux kernel community.

This came about after a very long period of thought, and a lot of succession planning. I didn�t take the decision to step down lightly. I felt guilty, for a long time, for stepping down. However, I finally realized that I could no longer contribute to a community where I was technically respected, but I could not ask for personal respect. I could not work with people who helpfully encouraged newcomers to send patches, and then argued that maintainers should be allowed to spew whatever vile words they needed to in order to maintain radical emotional honesty. I did not want to work professionally with people who were allowed to get away with subtle sexist or homophobic jokes. I feel powerless in a community that had a �Code of Conflict� without a specific list of behaviors to avoid and a community with no teeth to enforce it.

I have the utmost respect for the technical efforts of the Linux kernel community. They have scaled and grown a project that is focused on maintaining some of the highest coding standards out there. The focus on technical excellence, in combination with overloaded maintainers, and people with different cultural and social norms, means that Linux kernel maintainers are often blunt, rude, or brutal to get their job done. Top Linux kernel developers often yell at each other in order to correct each other�s behavior.

That�s not a communication style that works for me. I need communication that is technically brutal but personally respectful. I need people to correct my behavior when I�m doing something wrong (either technically or socially) without tearing me down as a person. We are human. We make mistakes, and we correct them. We get frustrated with someone, we over-react, and then we apologize and try to work together towards a solution.

I would prefer the communication style within the Linux kernel community to be more respectful. I would prefer that maintainers find healthier ways to communicate when they are frustrated. I would prefer that the Linux kernel have more maintainers so that they wouldn�t have to be terse or blunt.

Sadly, the behavioral changes I would like to see in the Linux kernel community are unlikely to happen any time soon. Many senior Linux kernel developers stand by the right of maintainers to be technically and personally brutal. Even if they are very nice people in person, they do not want to see the Linux kernel communication style change.

What that means is they are privileging the emotional needs of other Linux kernel developers (to release their frustrations on others, to be blunt, rude, or curse to blow off steam) over my own emotional needs (the need to be respected as a person, to not receive verbal or emotional abuse). There�s an awful power dynamic there that favors the established maintainer over basic human decency.

I�m not posting this for kernel developers. I�m not posting this to point fingers at specific people. I�m posting this because I grieve for the community that I no longer want to be a part of. I�m posting this because I feel sad every time someone thanks me for standing up for better community norms, because I have essentially given up trying to change the Linux kernel community. Cultural change is a slow, painful process, and I no longer have the mental energy to be an active part of that cultural change in the kernel.

I have hope that the Linux kernel community will change over time. I have been a part of that change, and the documentation, tutorials, and the programs that I�ve started (like the Outreachy kernel internships) will continue to grow in my absence. Maybe I�ll be back some day, when things are better. I have a decades long career in front of me. I can wait. In the meantime, there�s other, friendlier open source communities for me to play in.

discuss

# ? Oct 5, 2015 16:12

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# ? May 18, 2024 07:22

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

post not about programming languages, voted 1

# ? Oct 5, 2015 16:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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