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Bottom Liner posted:Legit hate anyone that buys and plays poo poo like this. Creepy as gently caress. Don't judge a game on its art! Tragedy looper! 
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Oct 4, 2015 21:48
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| # ? May 14, 2024 18:08 |
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thread will turn to poo poo for about two pages with an anime argument prove me wrong
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Oct 4, 2015 21:53
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Hey y'all, I used to play the Werewolf ccg back when it was out, how well have that games mechanics aged? I do t even remember how it played. Think it or the vampire one would work in an lcg format?
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Oct 4, 2015 21:54
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Banana Man posted:Think it or the vampire one would work in an lcg format? I feel like people would be on board with a Vampire : The eternal Struggle LCG but I don't even know if there's a big enough fanbase for that. I know I want it though. Especially if it's as multiplayer focused as the original.
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Oct 4, 2015 21:58
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Lord Frisk posted:Don't judge a game on its art! Tragedy looper! Tragedy Looper is about 10 rungs down on the creepy ladder from that obvious neckbeard bait. It's still anime though 
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Oct 4, 2015 22:07
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Banana Man posted:Hey y'all, I used to play the Werewolf ccg back when it was out, how well have that games mechanics aged? I do t even remember how it played. Think it or the vampire one would work in an lcg format? Richard Garfield mentioned that FFG was working on a Vampire LCG remake but the following FFG dudes replied on BGG: quote:I can categorically state with full certainty that the linked claim made above is false. Fantasy Flight Games has no plans to publish any version of Jyhad/Vampire: The Eternal Struggle. quote:Dave, FFG did look into publishing this game for a time, and we decided to pass on it for a number of reasons. Richard was not up to date (no fault of his) on this decision. Given the conviction in these responses and murmuring on the internet in other contexts, I suspect that WoD IP is a dead end
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Oct 4, 2015 22:16
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Bottom Liner posted:Legit hate anyone that buys and plays poo poo like this. Creepy as gently caress. I was a hairs breath away from buying it myself, just for the fact that it was cheaper than Dominion and came with 16 kinds of cards (plus the black maids) in the base set vs Dominions having only 10. I thought better of myself, and who I might play it with, and thankfully got Dominion instead (yet to arrive  )
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Oct 4, 2015 22:42
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Bottom Liner posted:Legit hate anyone that buys and plays poo poo like this. Creepy as gently caress. The sad part is that it's an okay Dominion clone. The art is just creep-tastic. If there was a reskin of it into anything else, even if it was still anime as gently caress, it'd probably be fine. As far as CCGs for people on a budget, try some LCGs or even old Pokemon cards (WotC era preferably).
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Oct 4, 2015 22:45
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Rutibex posted:I was a hairs breath away from buying it myself, just for the fact that it was cheaper than Dominion and came with 16 kinds of cards (plus the black maids) in the base set vs Dominions having only 10. I thought better of myself, and who I might play it with, and thankfully got Dominion instead (yet to arrive Tanto is the exact same price as Dominion here in the UK, £40. And Dominion comes wih 500 cards to Tanto's what, 280? Price:Cardboard ratio makes it an easy decision. Alhough I think Tanto uses plasic cards.
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Oct 4, 2015 22:47
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AMooseDoesStuff posted:Tanto is the exact same price as Dominion here in the UK, £40. And Dominion comes wih 500 cards to Tanto's what, 280? Price:Cardboard ratio makes it an easy decision. Yeah but all those extra cards are just duplicates, the number of unique cards is less in Dominion. I think a new metric needs to be added, "Gameplay per Volume"
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Oct 4, 2015 22:50
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You should be up for playing only munchkin all the time Rutibex. I see holes in your theory. Maybe you aren't actually an accredited game scientist at all! You lieeeeeed
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Oct 4, 2015 22:54
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Plastic cards should be an industry standard. I played Cthulhu Realms last week, which is a broken mess and super easy to make broken combos with, but the cards feel amazing. I could shuffle them all day. Good art too. It's not as stale as Star Realms, but both players will probably be drawing their whole deck each turn by the end, and it's got crazy swingy damage and healing along with a ton of buildings that constantly get in the way. Still better than Thunderstone. Actually, here's my top ten of deck builders 1 Dominion (with expansions) 2 Eminent Domain (with expansion) 3 Valley of the Kings (number 1 if top two don't have expansions) 4 Legendary Encounters: Alien 5 Ascension (expansions only) 6 Friday 7 Legendary Marvel 8 Cthulhu Realms 9 Star Realms 10 Thunderstone/Advanced To play: Trains, Puzzle Strike, Arctic Scavengers, Legendary Predator
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Oct 4, 2015 22:58
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I liked Trains. One of my friends keeps bringing it up as "that boring game that was actually super fun."
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Oct 4, 2015 23:03
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Ok, seriously... gently caress Volkare. Think I might have to go back to solo conquest. Game is still really good, though.
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Oct 4, 2015 23:05
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Vlaada Chvatil posted:I liked Trains. One of my friends keeps bringing it up as "that boring game that was actually super fun." Does Trains add anything else than managing waste? If so that to me doesn't nearly outweigh the blandness that comes from unlimited actions per turn. If Dominions had unlimited actions per turn it wouldn't be interesting at all.
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Oct 4, 2015 23:06
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Just found out the Geek Bar in Chicago carries Tanto Cuore but not Dominion.
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Oct 4, 2015 23:06
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Bottom Liner posted:Plastic cards should be an industry standard. I played Cthulhu Realms last week, which is a broken mess and super easy to make broken combos with, but the cards feel amazing. I could shuffle them all day. Good art too. It's not as stale as Star Realms, but both players will probably be drawing their whole deck each turn by the end, and it's got crazy swingy damage and healing along with a ton of buildings that constantly get in the way. Still better than Thunderstone. You should play Puzzle Strike, dude. The online game is good for getting a taste of it.
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Oct 4, 2015 23:07
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Puzzle Strike is really fun. The chips take away one of the big downsides of deckbuilders, which is constant shuffling.
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Oct 4, 2015 23:18
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sector_corrector posted:Puzzle Strike is really fun. The chips take away one of the big downsides of deckbuilders, which is constant shuffling. And add a bunch of new downsides. You can't hold your cards in your hands and read what they do, there's a lot less room for text (and Puzzle Strike's cards can get way more wordy than anything in the Dominion base set which kind of worked as the chip design Sirlin stole), it's more awkward to draw chips than cards which you need to do way more often than shuffling, it can take longer to make sure your bag is actually empty and needs a shuffle than it would have taken to just shuffle a deck, and the gem piles are just absurd even though they have nowhere near as much in them than Dominion's treasure piles. I like Puzzle Strike, but I like it a lot more as a print and play game than a retail box.
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Oct 4, 2015 23:29
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Any deck builder without a market row > any deck builder does. I really don't like the randomization of market rows, especially how Star Realms / Ascension does it. Even Dom X. himself said in some blog they considered doing a market row for the initial Dominion bought thought would be too luck-based / bad idea-ish. Maybe other games are better with them (Haven't played the Alien / Valley of Kings one yet) but Star Realms really makes you hate it quick. Say what you will about things like Arctic Scavengers, at least it doesn't have a market row.
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Oct 5, 2015 00:27
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jeeves posted:Any deck builder without a market row > any deck builder does. Counterpoint: Eminent Domain owns.
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Oct 5, 2015 01:00
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Some Numbers posted:Counterpoint: Eminent Domain owns. That's...not a market row, not in the usual sense. The action cards you can get are always there, the planets are explored a la Race, not market row, and the techs are also all there from the start, not a random set coming up and replaced as they're bought.
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Oct 5, 2015 01:12
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I see a lot of 7 Wonders tournaments happening locally. How is that even a thing? The game always seemed to have the depth of a puddle, especially as you add more players and the xpac I tried just made it more of an RNG-fest. A 7 Wonders tournament seems like it would be as interesting as a Roulette tournament.
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Oct 5, 2015 01:17
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Also, market row with cards replenished at end of turn > market row with cards replenished immediately. It's a subtle but often very important distinction.
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Oct 5, 2015 01:31
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Andarel posted:Also, market row with cards replenished at end of turn > market row with cards replenished immediately. It's a subtle but often very important distinction. I don't know about that. One lets you pay a tax to dig. The other leads to stagnant boards.
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Oct 5, 2015 01:36
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To be fair, I'm not very fond of pure/traditional deckbuilders and almost all the ones I've played recently that aren't Dominion or Valley of the Kings are pretty rear end. But the big problem with ones that auto-replenish is that it makes the luck factor huge in the mid/lategame by making the market much less predictable and greatly amplifies flipping lucky cards off the top. This wouldn't be an issue if buys were more limited but there aren't any deckbuilders that have buy minimums + market row that I can think of other than Epic Thunderstone. On the other hand, the Cryptozoic deckbuilders use end-of-turn refilling and they're universally terrible so...yeah.
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Oct 5, 2015 01:46
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As I was playing digital Ascension long enough to get sick of it, I started wondering how you could make changes to the game to keep the market row, but improve the overall game. I haven't really come up with anything, other than pre-seeding the deck to make sure there's an even distribution of card types, but that would be a huge pain in the rear end for the physical game.
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Oct 5, 2015 01:47
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Preaching to the choir, but the more that u played games with market rows, the more disenfranchised I became. Nothing quite like drawing a strength 10 enemy first turn in Legendary.
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Oct 5, 2015 01:50
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Andarel posted:But the big problem with ones that auto-replenish is that it makes the luck factor huge in the mid/lategame by making the market much less predictable and greatly amplifies flipping lucky cards off the top. That's true of market row regardless of how you do it, though. Either they replenish at the end of your turn, and I get to buy a card you never saw, or they replenish in the middle of my turn, and I get to buy a card you never saw. One way or another, someone's going to have the first chance to get the only copy of the god card that just popped up.
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Oct 5, 2015 01:55
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Toshimo posted:I see a lot of 7 Wonders tournaments happening locally. How is that even a thing? The game always seemed to have the depth of a puddle, especially as you add more players and the xpac I tried just made it more of an RNG-fest. A 7 Wonders tournament seems like it would be as interesting as a Roulette tournament. It depends on the expansions and how many players per table in each round. poo poo like Babel or some of the Promo boards would be difficult and much more unweildy, but doing base game 7 Wonders (or Base+Cities) as a tournament would be a solid set up. Idk how the bracketing should be though since the game tends to vary at different player counts. I did do a small 7 Wonders tournament though with Base+Leaders+Cities that essentially had 16 people, so two 8P boards with the top 4 of each going into a final 8P board. IMO, with a big board like that, there should be a run off with the top 4 of that playing a final round. sector_corrector posted:As I was playing digital Ascension long enough to get sick of it, I started wondering how you could make changes to the game to keep the market row, but improve the overall game. I haven't really come up with anything, other than pre-seeding the deck to make sure there's an even distribution of card types, but that would be a huge pain in the rear end for the physical game. Two market rows, one for monster and the other for buying cards, but with fewer cards in each row.
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Oct 5, 2015 01:55
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I still think it would be an interesting experiment to "de-market row" some of the popular deck builders. If all or some subset of the cards were all available up front for the entire duration of the game, does the game just collapse into degenerate-strategy-ville?
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Oct 5, 2015 01:57
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Lottery of Babylon posted:That's true of market row regardless of how you do it, though. Either they replenish at the end of your turn, and I get to buy a card you never saw, or they replenish in the middle of my turn, and I get to buy a card you never saw. One way or another, someone's going to have the first chance to get the only copy of the god card that just popped up. The difference is that one way you have a degree of control over how many cards the next player sees (same number as you, unless there's weird stuff going on) because they don't get more new cards than you bought. The other way can result in strings of god cards that are otherwise impossible.
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Oct 5, 2015 01:57
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sector_corrector posted:As I was playing digital Ascension long enough to get sick of it, I started wondering how you could make changes to the game to keep the market row, but improve the overall game. I haven't really come up with anything, other than pre-seeding the deck to make sure there's an even distribution of card types, but that would be a huge pain in the rear end for the physical game. Have different decks, and different triggers to draw from those decks. In Ascension, have a deck for each faction and a deck for monsters. Think Paperback. Randomness within each deck, but you have options all across the board.
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Oct 5, 2015 01:58
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Xelkelvos posted:It depends on the expansions and how many players per table in each round. poo poo like Babel or some of the Promo boards would be difficult and much more unweildy, but doing base game 7 Wonders (or Base+Cities) as a tournament would be a solid set up. Idk how the bracketing should be though since the game tends to vary at different player counts. I dunno. The variance between the best cards and the median cards seems to make a lot of drafts super swingy and, frankly, having the dude 4 seats away sitting next to a newbie leads to uncontrollable blowouts. I can't imagine any scenario where the game filters down to a competitive format.
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Oct 5, 2015 01:59
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You can solve some of the random swinginess by revealing the next few cards that are going to be available to purchase. The downside is you get stagnant boards where neither player wants to buy anything because the card that will be available next is way more powerful than anything currently on offer. Alternatively, you could make your cards sufficiently balanced that the swinginess isn't a big deal. But if you could pull that off you wouldn't be making a market row deckbuilder in the first place...
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Oct 5, 2015 02:02
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Toshimo posted:I dunno. The variance between the best cards and the median cards seems to make a lot of drafts super swingy and, frankly, having the dude 4 seats away sitting next to a newbie leads to uncontrollable blowouts. I can't imagine any scenario where the game filters down to a competitive format. 3P tables with a single winner moving on is probably the most consistent way to do it, even if it would take the most time. For added consistency, each table has the same three Wonders that's randomly distributed between the three (there's no way around this unfortunately without playing extra games for the same round). The final round could have a best aggregate ranking between three games (1st gets 2 points, 2nd gets 1, last gets 0).
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Oct 5, 2015 02:04
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Rutibex posted:I was a hairs breath away from buying it myself, just for the fact that it was cheaper than Dominion and came with 16 kinds of cards (plus the black maids) in the base set vs Dominions having only 10. I thought better of myself, and who I might play it with, and thankfully got Dominion instead (yet to arrive dominion has 25 kingdom cards and 7 supply cards in the base set
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Oct 5, 2015 02:14
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Broken Loose posted:dominion has 25 kingdom cards and 7 supply cards in the base set forget it bloose, it's rubitextown
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Oct 5, 2015 02:15
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StashAugustine posted:forget it bloose, it's rubitextown i know, i just... there's a difference between laughing at the talisman gimmick and outright spreading misinformation. but you're right, i shouldn't even bother
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Oct 5, 2015 02:18
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Rutibex posted:Yeah but all those extra cards are just duplicates, the number of unique cards is less in Dominion. I think a new metric needs to be added, "Gameplay per Volume" You do realize there are 25 kingdom cards with 10 randomly chosen each game, right? Can't do the math right now but I'm pretty sure it's at least a few thousand games per penny you pay/ounce it weighs. Also market rows generally suck but VotK probably comes closest to doing it right. No replenishment mid-turn, and only three cards are available to buy at any time, though card actions can mess with this.
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Oct 5, 2015 02:28
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