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Tatum Girlparts posted:I'm not doubting that we're dumb enough to allow it but...why do we let Afghan forces say 'yo airstrike now' like it's loving CoD? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/10/world/middleeast/syria-turkey-islamic-state-kurdish-militia-ypg.html There's US coordination, but the YPG are the ones giving the coordinates of what/where to hit. Part of it is that we trust/assume the forces on the ground are at least somewhat competent, when in reality: Rent-A-Cop posted:Well theoretically the US would like them to become a real country that can be trusted to have an army without instantly descending into warlordism and atrocity. In reality Afghanistan is a country that couldn't organize an orgy in a whorehouse and there isn't any point in the foreseeable future when the Afghan government should be trusted to wipe their own asses let alone call in airstrikes. fade5 fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 17:36
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Who thought it was a good idea to let the Afgahns call in fires? Well considering we're handing over keys to national defense in a little over a year I assume that we would like them to be able to make those calls but assuming they can't seem to get rid of the literal child rapists in their ranks, competent Intel calls might be a bridge too far (although I would wager they would still call the strike in anyways even if it were next door to an orphanage/puppy rescue). Also considering we have people in this very thread who don't understand why we're in Afghanistan I'm going to guess continuing the US mission in the country is a non-starter from a domestic policy standpoint.
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Oct 5, 2015 17:37
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mlmp08 posted:I'm reminded of a horrific air strike, also in Kunduz, where USAF F-15Es killed over 60 civilians after a German general ordered that strike. Germany ended up paying the families $5000 per victim. Are you talking about the time with the fuel trucks? Because I never heard anything about a German general calling in the strike there, everything I saw was that the Americans followed standard doctrine and the Taliban had come up with the operation specifically to take advantage of how they knew the US would react Anyways I had a busy weekend, were the past 10 pages worth reading it just nonsense?
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Oct 5, 2015 17:43
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Dead Reckoning posted:She didn't get elected, so clearly their performance was unsatisfactory. That's literally what her campaign higher-ups believe. quote:"People are just upset and angry and throwing her under the bus,” said Jon Cross, Fiorina’s operations director for her Senate campaign. “If we didn’t win, why do you deserve to get paid? If you don’t succeed in business, you shouldn’t be the first one to step up and complain about getting paid.”
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Oct 5, 2015 17:48
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Where's your precious contracts now, lolbertarians?
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Oct 5, 2015 17:53
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quote:If you don’t succeed in business, you shouldn’t be the first one to step up and complain about getting paid.” Hahaha a Carly backer of all people had the balls to say that one? http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1848501_1848500_1848417,00.html
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Oct 5, 2015 17:55
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Rhesus Pieces posted:That's literally what her campaign higher-ups believe. Please give me a source because that quote is amazing.
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Oct 5, 2015 17:56
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Rhesus Pieces posted:That's literally what her campaign higher-ups believe. Is there some loophole for campaign staff that makes this not-highly-illegal?
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Oct 5, 2015 17:56
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Fried Chicken posted:Are you talking about the time with the fuel trucks? Because I never heard anything about a German general calling in the strike there, everything I saw was that the Americans followed standard doctrine and the Taliban had come up with the operation specifically to take advantage of how they knew the US would react I am talking about that incident, yes. It was a rather big deal in Germany.
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Oct 5, 2015 17:59
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Please give me a source because that quote is amazing. http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...a395_story.html Quotes from this are amazingly Dickensian quote:Upon his death, Fiorina praised Shumate as “the heart and soul” of her team. She issued a news release praising him as a person who believed in “investing in those he worked with” and offering her “sincerest condolences” to his widow.
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Oct 5, 2015 18:01
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mlmp08 posted:I am talking about that incident, yes. It was a rather big deal in Germany. Do you have more background about the German general and involvement then? I'd be interested in learning more about it, it fell off the radar pretty quick here
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Oct 5, 2015 18:02
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Please give me a source because that quote is amazing. Here you go. fool_of_sound posted:Is there some loophole for campaign staff that makes this not-highly-illegal? I have no idea, but rest assured that if any business could successfully get away with that they'd do it in a heartbeat.
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Oct 5, 2015 18:02
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Trabisnikof posted:Looks like NAFTA 2: Asia Boogaloo reached agreement Good I'm glad of it.
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Oct 5, 2015 18:03
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fool_of_sound posted:Is there some loophole for campaign staff that makes this not-highly-illegal? They're all likely on contracts, rather than direct employees, so it turns it into a civil matter instead of a potentially criminal one.
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Oct 5, 2015 18:05
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Florida Senate Candidate Augustus Sol Invictus sacrificed a goat and drank its blood The whole "walking from Florida to the Mojave desert" bit is kinda cool though. I always wish I had the time/money to do something like that or the Appalachian trail. And if "walking the Appalachian trail" is really a euphemism for seeing my Brazilian supermodel mistress, even better
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Oct 5, 2015 18:12
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Fried Chicken posted:Florida Senate Candidate Augustus Sol Invictus sacrificed a goat and drank its blood I am shocked that a man named after the Roman sun god would engage in bizarre and horrific pagan rituals. How will anyone in Florida take the Libertarian Party seriously now?
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Oct 5, 2015 18:16
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It's not every day the Pentagon admits to blowing up an active hospital. Jesus Christ.
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Oct 5, 2015 18:18
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euphronius posted:It's not every day the Pentagon admits to blowing up an active hospital. Jesus Christ. would you prefer they lied about it?
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Oct 5, 2015 18:19
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Tennessee county prepping resolution asking God to spare them, smite other town instead Just in case you thought weird religious ticks were limited to libertarians from Florida
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Oct 5, 2015 18:23
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Fried Chicken posted:Tennessee county prepping resolution asking God to spare them, smite other town instead Tax dollars at work.
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Oct 5, 2015 18:24
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:would you prefer they lied about it? No, obviously I prefer that it didn't happen!
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Oct 5, 2015 18:25
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Vice account of how Pennsylvania prison tortured, then falsely charged group of activist inmates
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Oct 5, 2015 18:25
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:would you prefer they lied about it? Like the old days? Would be a little comforting, yeah.
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Oct 5, 2015 18:26
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 nothing will happen nobody will ever be prosecuted dehumanize yourself and face to people burning to death in hospital beds
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Oct 5, 2015 18:26
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Fried Chicken posted:Vice account of how Pennsylvania prison tortured, then falsely charged group of activist inmates No racism in America. Nope. No abuses. Everything is normal.
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Oct 5, 2015 18:29
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:would you prefer they lied about it? It's a sad day when you can't even trust your own government to lie to you.
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Oct 5, 2015 18:30
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Lotka Volterra posted:It's a sad day when you can't even trust your own government to lie to you. THANKS OBAMA
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Oct 5, 2015 18:31
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Fried Chicken posted:Do you have more background about the German general and involvement then? I'd be interested in learning more about it, it fell off the radar pretty quick here https://www.afghanistan-analysts.org/the-incident-at-coordinate-42s-vf-8934-5219-german-court-rejects-claim-from-kunduz-air-strike-victims/ Tl;dr: Taliban hijacks tankers. Tankers gets stuck in mud and are located by a B-1. B-1 leaves area and F-15s arrive. Taliban lets locals take gas from the tanker and now a ton of civilians are siphoning off fuel. Unclear how many taliban remained there. German Colonel (he was later promoted to general) is told by an informant that everyone there was a bad dude (lol). F-15 pilots are uneasy with the strike and offered repeatedly to do show of force runs rather than bomb. Did I mention the German officer called this in as a troops in contact self defense strike? The target was called time sensitive and an imminent danger to German troops. When asked by the pilots if the target was to destroy the tankers or hit the personnel they were told the latter. German defense minister eventually resigns and convicted of cover up, in which he hid evidence that belied the German claim that those struck were all Taliban. Afghan leaders had also been critical of the German officer in the past for being too slow to apply lethal force. Various other Afghan leaders were pretty pumped about the victory of the strike, arguing that any civilians had it coming for accepting stolen gas from the Taliban. Shitshow.txt
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Oct 5, 2015 18:34
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Calling it now, this will be the Illegal Immigrants Could Elect Hillary Thrust is pretty simple - EVs are assigned to states based off total census pop, not voting pop. Most illegal immigrants live in the big cities, which are blue (and the cities are typically big enough that the voters there drive the state blue). So while they do not vote in the election their presence influences EV allocation among the states and thus boosts the EV count of the blue states. It isn't enough to swing any election except the most absurdly close ones (it would be about 17 if they were all in one state, but spread across the ones they are it is a lot lower since the populations would still be really high without them and still get most of the EVs). The thesis is more or less undone by the fact that if you waved them all away and those EV went to the highest population states without them it would still overwhelmingly go to blue states. But I don't expect the article content and the nuance to the argument will ever gain a lot of traction. That "liberal Politico" (who runs Dick Cheney apologia on the regular) is running something with that headline will lead to it being truth, and the shrieking rage will grow louder
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Oct 5, 2015 18:41
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I'm not doubting that we're dumb enough to allow it but...why do we let Afghan forces say 'yo airstrike now' like it's loving CoD? My assumption is that the hospital complex was very clearly delineated on what's called a No Strike List. This and other lists are commonly reviewed and planned with at the operational level (HQ staff at various levels) but this likely occurred entirely at the tactical level where a call for support was made, the supporting USAF element engaged, and tragedy occurred. I dont know the specifics here or the C2 structure, but it's entirely possible that the the supporting USAF element is authorized to engage called for targets by the Afghani military without requesting authorization from higher HQ due to the dynamic nature of air support. It would be that way because delays in fires requests caused by staffing it would result in friendly combatants being killed. That doesn't help in this situation, but it's the reality of military operations
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Oct 5, 2015 18:41
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Why are you making up an elaborate story to excuse a horrific war crime. The U.S. intentionally blew up a hospital. The pentagon blaming Afghan forces is just insulting racist propaganda.
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Oct 5, 2015 18:52
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euphronius posted:Why are you making up an elaborate story to excuse a horrific war crime. Well I mean the hospital was housing terrorist and dressed like a slut so it had it coming to be fair.
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Oct 5, 2015 18:54
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Im not? I'm giving background as to how/why this could have happened in the context of the recent claim of an Afghani call for fire... You know, since most people are entirely ignorant of how the military actually works It's all good  VVV Boon fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 18:55
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Boon posted:Im not? I'm sorry I read it as you believing the Pentagon. I apologize.
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Oct 5, 2015 18:56
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If they run, they're terrorists. If they lie still in a hospital bed, they're well trained terrorists.
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Oct 5, 2015 18:56
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I'm not sure what an independent and impartial international body holding investigative authority over the sovereign government of a superpower would even look like
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Oct 5, 2015 19:01
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Chantilly Say posted:I'm not sure what an independent and impartial international body holding investigative authority over the sovereign government of a superpower would even look like 
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Oct 5, 2015 19:05
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I'm gonna be loling if it turns out that an Afghan JTAC (or whatever passes for one in the Afghan National Army) ends up owning the bomb.Luigi Thirty posted:nothing will happen Who are you going to prosecute? The aircrew? They probably would have had no way of knowing that "the building at <coordinates>" was a hospital. The flag officers at the CAOC? If you're mad that the US doesn't turn its soldiers over to face trumped up political charges in international courts, good loving luck getting Afghanistan to hand over one of their own.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:05
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If you actually think someone in the Pentagon made the decision to blow up a MSF hospital, knowing it was a hospital and knowing there were no enemy there, you are an idiot.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:05
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Fried Chicken posted:Vice account of how Pennsylvania prison tortured, then falsely charged group of activist inmates Anyone who says they enjoy working at a prison should probably be executed for the good of humanity.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:06
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