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SynthOrange posted:He was prime minister for 11 years? Yeah and Workchoices was what brought him down, that's the point
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Oct 6, 2015 03:00
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Yeah but it was only the last in a very long and overall very successful campaign of eroding worker's rights.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:01
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I can see them running a campaign about how great it would be to go to the mall on Sunday and how the Unions want to destroy it. Also the entire retail sector will dump millions on the campaign
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Oct 6, 2015 03:03
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A true conservative would force the shops to close on Sundays.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:04
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Malcolm Turnbull is no Campbell Newman or John Howard, he doesn't have the balls to risk a drop in the polls because the polls put him there in the first place. On the flipside, Bill Shorten is no Kevin Rudd or Annastacia Palaszczuk. Bill Shorten is a counter to Tony Abbott but he will have trouble finding anything to pitch against the Monopoly Man of Wentworth.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:07
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open24hours posted:A true conservative would force the shops to close on Sundays. Seriously. What the hell happened to "conservatives"? I guess if the old order you want to restore is actually medieval feudalism they're being consistent. Actually, now that I think about it, even medieval peasants had Sundays off.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:09
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Hahaha good luck getting laborers to work on the weekend. Want that massive leak on the road fixed? It can wait till monday cause gently caress giving up saturday for regular pay.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:10
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I always get insanely depressed when I try to catch up with Australian politics. 
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Oct 6, 2015 03:11
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Amoeba102 posted:You don't even have to work weekends personally to have weekend work mess with your life. Having a partner that worked Saturdays was bad enough. This exactly! It's not only about the money, it fucks up your life. My wife is a relatively highly paid shift worker and we would gladly lose all that extra penalty money in exchange for her only having to work Mon-Fri.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:13
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Amethyst posted:Seriously. What the hell happened to "conservatives"? I guess if the old order you want to restore is actually medieval feudalism they're being consistent. I don't think they've existed in Australia in my lifetime. The social conservatism is just our take on the Southern Strategy from the US, preying on the neuroses of idiots who think things like same sex marriage matter and are willing to give up things that actually do prevent it.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:17
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Gonna laugh my rear end off as sickies claimed skyrockets on weekends and the govt tries putting a charge on illness certificates.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:20
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Funky See Funky Do posted:This seems like an appropriate venue to share this: I have a huge celebrity crush on Virginia Trioli. She did the worst interviews with students protesting abbott and bishop last year. Accussed student protesters of wasting their opportunity to have a "dialogue" with abbott about the uni deregulation.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:31
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If anyone is surprised about Shorten's defence of private schools. I went and trawled through Wikipedia and the only two Prime Ministers in living memory to graduate from public high schools are Howard and Gillard. You have to go back to the time of federation and the old socialists to find a PM who either went to public school, night school and one was even homeschooled.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:39
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When people in the political sphere talk about changing the policy on penalty rates, are they generally talking across the board or are they usually just singling out hospitality/retail? Because there are a lot of fields (e.g., police, medicine, paramedics) that fall under the umbrella of penalty rates but every news article talks about hospitality/retail, implying that these debates are about them specifically. Is there a movement to change penalty rate agreements with paramedics or nurses within this push? If not, why not, what is the logic conservatives use to suggest that retail workers don't deserve extra pay for having to work Sunday but medical doctors do (I know it's about punishing the poor but I'm wondering if they've made any effort to rationalize the policy beyond that axiom). My friend is a paramedic and I'm (presumably) going to be doing a lot of evening/weekend shift work when I graduate from my current program; I know that most areas of the hospital and ambulance service will howl like banshees if there is even a hint that the current pay structure is under threat...
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Oct 6, 2015 03:46
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This is the thin edge of the wedge because hospitality can't stand up for themselves / don't have the same social standing as workers compared to emergency services etc
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Oct 6, 2015 03:48
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Birb Katter posted:This is the thin edge of the wedge because hospitality can't stand up for themselves / don't have the same social standing as workers compared to emergency services etc There must be an argument that the conservatives are using to justify the double standard, though... how do they sell this policy, it's obviously hypocritical; how do they respond when they're asked why they're maintaining this standard for one profession and not another? Even when they're being disingenuous, they usually at least provide <an> explanation.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:53
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I'm sure United Voice will do something.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:54
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It's not really about punishing the poor, it just has the effect of punishing the poor and no one with any influence cares. Paramedics have a more prestigious job than retail workers and a much better union, so they'll probably be fairly safe. Same deal with police and other jobs that people are sympathetic towards. It's not based on an informed philosophy about agile economies or whatever the current buzzword is, it's literally just companies wanting to make more money and seeing that cutting wages is much easier than innovating.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:54
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I wish Auspol would stop making GBS threads on my crush.
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Oct 6, 2015 03:57
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Serrath posted:There must be an argument that the conservatives are using to justify the double standard, though... how do they sell this policy, it's obviously hypocritical; how do they respond when they're asked why they're maintaining this standard for one profession and not another? Even when they're being disingenuous, they usually at least provide <an> explanation. It's old fashioned, see, you wouldn't want an old economy, would you?
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Oct 6, 2015 03:59
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Serrath posted:There must be an argument that the conservatives are using to justify the double standard, though... how do they sell this policy, it's obviously hypocritical; how do they respond when they're asked why they're maintaining this standard for one profession and not another? Even when they're being disingenuous, they usually at least provide <an> explanation. They're not. They never mention other industries, probably because they know that picking a fight with nurses or whatever is never gonna look good for them. So they take aim at hospitality, then lose anyway and the penalty rate discussion skulks back into the shadows. I feel like that's always going to be true in some form. Their attempts to cut penalty rates don't just have to go through the hospitality industry (which it always fails to manage), if they ever successfully manage to float it further than that they'll have to sell taking money away from jobs people just can't hate.
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Oct 6, 2015 04:00
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well this is a thingquote:A student who allegedly threatened a Sydney police station on his Facebook page has been arrested on his way to the same school attended by the teenager who shot dead a police accountant last week.
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Oct 6, 2015 04:03
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Cleretic posted:They're not. They never mention other industries, probably because they know that picking a fight with nurses or whatever is never gonna look good for them. So they take aim at hospitality, then lose anyway and the penalty rate discussion skulks back into the shadows. Maybe my political literacy is low or maybe I'm missing something but this seems to open their argument up to a very obvious line of attack... they go on record to make an exhaustive case as to why penalty rates are bad and why the law needs to be changed and then they level those arguments at hospitality and retail workers when, in reality, those arguments could be used against nurses, medical interns, police officers. I recognize that they seem to lose this argument but I never hear anyone press them on why they're not trying to push these policies on anyone but a very narrow minority of workers who enjoy penalty rates. If they believed all the arguments they made about why penalty rates shouldn't be a thing, it seems ideologically inconsistent to go after retail workers alone (and I know they're just using this excuse as a vehicle to pass policies to denigrate people without any influence, it just feels like the hypocrisy is a bit more naked than usual). Has anyone ever challenged someone in this administration with that argument? Made them answer why they're not going after the penalty rates of other industries? I'd be really interested to know how they spin it if they're put on the spot...
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Oct 6, 2015 04:09
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Lid posted:They said the student then threatened and intimidated police and he was arrested. I'm really struggling to see how a high school student could intimidate multiple police men.
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Oct 6, 2015 04:11
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They just refuse to answer the question and/or obfuscate. You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oij9wQFmpuI Our political debates aren't based on fact.
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Oct 6, 2015 04:15
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Oct 6, 2015 04:17
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Serrath posted:Has anyone ever challenged someone in this administration with that argument? Made them answer why they're not going after the penalty rates of other industries? I'd be really interested to know how they spin it if they're put on the spot... At the moment they're not even pushing stripping penalty rates for hospo workers particularly hard - Turnbull saying they would have to be "compensated in other ways" (like tax breaks... down the track... for sure) is as hard as they've come out since Workchoices. (As hard as the Liberal Party has come out, I mean - the business lobby never shuts the gently caress up about it.) If someone pushed them on the issue of police/fire/ambulance I can guarantee you they would talk their way around it by saying they have no interest in cutting their rates. The phrase "frontline services" would probably come into it.
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Oct 6, 2015 04:18
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The focus would be on hospitality/retail as who's going to stand up for them. Once you've established a precedent it becomes easier to force it onto other areas. Nurses/police/paramedics etc would probably be excepted as they have stronger unions, but I wouldn't be surprised if their rates were slowed long term. Kinda like how casual workers were going to usher in a new era of flexibility. Nibbles! fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Oct 6, 2015 |
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Oct 6, 2015 04:34
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It's also easier to push the ~small business~ line for hospitality and retail. Not many small business owners run a police force so it's easier to pretend it's about Joe Fuckwit struggling to make ends meet and not CEOs and shareholders being upset that they have to buy 100' instead of 200' yachts.
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Oct 6, 2015 04:37
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Sky News was running a "penalty rates costing tge small business owner". Said business owner being a man who owns 64 bakerys. He said penalty rates cost him 50k per "penalty" day. Yes small business.
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Oct 6, 2015 04:45
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Lid posted:Sky News was running a "penalty rates costing tge small business owner". Said business owner being a man who owns 64 bakerys. He said penalty rates cost him 50k per "penalty" day. Yes small business. That's not even eight hundred dollars per bakery. If you can't afford sixteen hundred a weekend there's a problem with your business.
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Oct 6, 2015 04:55
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Afford is an evil word used to imply struggle but it really just facilitates greed.
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Oct 6, 2015 05:02
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Amethyst posted:On the other hand, the public won't vote for this will they? Right? "Well I'm not so sure about cutting penalty rates, but Malcolm knows what he's about, and he sounds so confident when he says they're bad for the economy. He's made quite a bit of money, you know! How could he be wrong? He must be right."
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Oct 6, 2015 05:24
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Never underestimate the ability for the Australian Public to vote against their own interests.
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Oct 6, 2015 05:36
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Anidav posted:Malcolm Turnbull is no Campbell Newman or John Howard, he doesn't have the balls to risk a drop in the polls because the polls put him there in the first place. Bill Shorten is a counter to Tony Abbott in the same way a grapefruit is a counter to Tony Abbot. It just has to sit there and do literally nothing while ole Tones shits in his own mouth. Shorten is worthless and I really hope he doesn't get elected but I'd still prefer him over Turnbull. My preference for the leader of this country at the moment is actually "Someone else".
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Oct 6, 2015 05:42
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Frogfingers posted:If anyone is surprised about Shorten's defence of private schools. I went and trawled through Wikipedia and the only two Prime Ministers in living memory to graduate from public high schools are Howard and Gillard. You have to go back to the time of federation and the old socialists to find a PM who either went to public school, night school and one was even homeschooled. The thing is, it isn't the quality of the education in private schools that made Prime Ministers be able to become PM, but their socioeconomic backgrounds and contacts/social circles/loving a dead pig that got them on that path.
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Oct 6, 2015 05:49
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quote:I meant Catholic schools, says Shorten
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Oct 6, 2015 05:50
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Without Tony as a counterpoint Shorten starting to look really really tone deaf.
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Oct 6, 2015 05:53
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Without the class clown, every student starts to look worse.
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Oct 6, 2015 05:55
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Without Tony... Bill says as he downs another Jack Daniels on the rocks Without...Tony...
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Oct 6, 2015 06:03
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