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H.P. Hovercraft quoted posted:If you bought a car with 5,000 defects, you'd be very upset.
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Oct 6, 2015 16:00
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As a Millennial I posted:because http://violetblue.tumblr.com/post/130440543695/why-im-sitting-at-home-crying-on-a-saturday facebook is terrible, but didn't violet blue sue a porn star who was already using the name "violet blue"?
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Oct 6, 2015 16:00
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i don't even know who violet blue is. jwz says that lady was impersonating her. either way it has no bearing on this story my favorite part is that facebook shows her pictures of three different black people and asked her to name the one person in those pictures
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Oct 6, 2015 16:15
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Beast of Bourbon posted:how do you pronounce webapp duTrieux. posted:how... why would anybody do the first one?
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Oct 6, 2015 16:16
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Trabisnikof posted:you can either test on fundamentals (algorithms, concepts, ethics, etc) or make domain specific tests its more that php is knob and tube and you'd be insane to use that anywhere in modern development
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Oct 6, 2015 16:17
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Shaggar posted:its more that php is knob and tube and you'd be insane to use that anywhere in modern development
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Oct 6, 2015 16:19
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Shaggar posted:its more that php is knob and tube and you'd be insane to use that anywhere in modern development i cant wait till we have legacy codebases we have to maintain using lovely coding practices because they are historical not because theyre old and were lazy, but they are covered under historical protections
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Oct 6, 2015 16:21
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your payroll system's legal to run if you don't change anything, but if you ever update it for the new tax laws you also need to fix the security holes to bring it up to code if you build another system that sits in front of it and mangles queries so they return the new results, though...
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Oct 6, 2015 16:26
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:i'm not sure how making the house bigger but still taking up the same amount of land somehow makes the population denser but i guess the watering thing is valid. typically its smaller lots than "normal" houses were on in like the 70s or whatever, and the house being bigger at once. it's also common to make the side facing the street much narrower and doing partial compensation by expanding the backyard. both of these result in more density than "traditional" suburban houses, though it's not out of altruism but rather so that the developer pays less for land they can sell to the new residents for the same price as before.
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Oct 6, 2015 16:30
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and all the houses are still right next to each other
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Oct 6, 2015 16:36
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also i would totally live in an isolated corner of a place like this and treat all the abandoned streets like my personal race track
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Oct 6, 2015 16:37
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front lawns are water-wasting perpetual half-brown wasted space that you have to spend hours per week maintaining; good riddance to them and to anyone who likes them
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Oct 6, 2015 16:38
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what if the nazca lines are just incomplete housing developments 
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Oct 6, 2015 16:39
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Munkeymon posted:shorter sight lines also trick drivers into going slower which is good for reducing traffic fatalities in a neighborhood full of understimulated, overindulged children (and their offspring)  this makes sense though, if you can see a clear 1/4 mile shot you might feel ok blowing past houses at 50...if you're an inconsiderate buffoon who cant see past the end of his nose (so most people)
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Oct 6, 2015 16:42
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Stringent posted:i think the only realistic certification system would have to be in individual frameworks/languages/technologies. if you tried to certify general development ability you just end up with fizzbuzz and implement a linked list. updating a test yearly so that you know you should call [elliptic curve crypto function] instead of [sha crypto function] before storing a password in a database or requiring some UML diagrams go through a review process when your program handles x type of data or applies to y kinds of situations instead of just hacking up a prototype the week before the deadline and calling it good those things would be great pointers fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Oct 6, 2015 |
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Oct 6, 2015 16:44
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pointers posted:you should call [elliptical curve crypto function] say hi to  for me
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Oct 6, 2015 16:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daJ1Q4GG9jw
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Oct 6, 2015 16:51
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i think we struggle to imagine a world where certain sectors of the economy have rigidly and publically standardized programming, like say financials should all run Java + something else, and there is a guild supported library of financial classes/functions and you need to understand how to use them you'd need to understand what various services/protocols do and how to interact with them safely, stuff in that context could be tested for and you could get certified as a financial sector programmer, be a part of that guild/union/legion/swarm/party forms of this definitely exist but not really in the way this thread is talking about it it'd probably get mired in programmer politics and language battles that result in huge philosophical rifts though so v  v
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Oct 6, 2015 16:54
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Trabisnikof posted:say hi to i havent touched crypto in a while i couldnt remember a better example 
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Oct 6, 2015 16:55
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:and i mean unless you're a cs professor working on some open problem in algorithmic complexity or something there probably actually is already a best way to do a thing that doesn't need to be created by you. this example is so totally orthogonal to the realities of professional development that it makes me question how much you understand the conversation
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Oct 6, 2015 16:58
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how has any other cross-disciplinary industry managed to establish professional standards that inform the choice of, but not mandate, the tools used to accomplish tasks? apparently it doesn't matter because the involvement of computers makes any comparison irrelevant. it just can't be done here because this is different, because computers you see
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Oct 6, 2015 16:58
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pointers posted:lol ed25519 is an elliptic curve and probably quite safe so your suggestion wasn't actually bad
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Oct 6, 2015 16:58
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Broken Machine posted:ed25519 is an elliptic curve and probably quite safe so your suggestion wasn't actually bad
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Oct 6, 2015 17:02
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what is the goal of all this licensing and standards you're talking about, "better" software? by what measure? do you have to pay a consulting company to review 100% of your code? that already doesn't work even in the cases it happens so if you massively increase the cost to build the software and it doesn't actually work better in any measurable way what's the point? the government database with 5 million people's stuff in it was built to very detailed specifications at insane cost and it still got owned just as bad as monoprice or zappos
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Oct 6, 2015 17:02
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JawnV6 posted:this example is so totally orthogonal to the realities of professional development that it makes me question how much you understand the conversation especially when you consider how far ahead industry is of academia in a lot of ways and how little of that gets published; the best text to speech algorithms are tightly controlled trade secrets for example to me arguing that most programmers shouldn't know how to think creatively is like asking aspiring musicians to just play back these recordings of music because they're not qualified to make their own, only music profs are allowed to do that I mean I get the whole don't reinvent the wheel idea but there's so much more to programming than just standard algorithms
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Oct 6, 2015 17:03
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Broken Machine posted:ed25519 is an elliptic curve and probably quite safe so your suggestion wasn't actually bad conversely, ed-209 is not at all safe
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Oct 6, 2015 17:07
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so once per page we're just going to fall back to programming is like art now? what, conceptually, is the difficulty in understanding "professional standards" and how they might apply to programmers or IT in general?
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Oct 6, 2015 17:09
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As a Millennial I posted:i don't even know who violet blue is. jwz says that lady was impersonating her. either way it has no bearing on this story her name came up last week for some reason, and hp hovercraft was highly critical of her. but if  jwz is on her side, i'm not sure who to believe
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Oct 6, 2015 17:10
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infernal machines posted:so once per page we're just going to fall back to programming is like art now? no I get that, it's fine I just think you can do this and still have good taste and programmers who aren't terminally boring. Do people with good taste work at Microsoft
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Oct 6, 2015 17:11
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what is the goal of all this licensing and standards you're talking about, "better" plumbing? by what measure? do you have to pay a consulting company to review 100% of your pipes? that already doesn't work even in the cases it happens so if you massively increase the cost to build the pipes and it doesn't actually work better in any measurable way what's the point? the iraqi police station with 76 million spent on it was built to very detailed specifications at insane cost and it still had nonfunctioning toilets and got owned as bad as grover
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Oct 6, 2015 17:14
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Broken Machine posted:no I get that, it's fine I just think you can do this and still have good taste and programmers who aren't terminally boring. Do people with good taste work at Microsoft wgaf? what relevance does this have to the concept of professional standards? do architects have good taste? are they terminally boring? does it have any relevance to their ability to design a structure that doesn't collapse and kill its occupants?
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Oct 6, 2015 17:15
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Panty Saluter posted:what if the nazca lines are just incomplete housing developments rofl
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Oct 6, 2015 17:17
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hmmm... the client wants an 80 story high-rise. convention would dictate the use of steel and concrete, but i'm really into this new cheesecloth building technique i've been playing with, so i'll design it around that
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Oct 6, 2015 17:17
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the only way that could work is if salaried workers could refuse work with unreasonable requirements without getting fired
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Oct 6, 2015 17:20
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infernal machines posted:wgaf? what relevance does this have to the concept of professional standards? falling water is a nice looking building, but if the contractor hadn't added extra concrete and reinforcments, the cantilevered balcony would have collapsed. It would be a shame to see software development converge around accounting firm culture is all. I think creative, aesthetically pleasing design and good professional standards / secure are all things that are important and should all be part of computer systems that's all.
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Oct 6, 2015 17:22
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prefect posted:her name came up last week for some reason, and hp hovercraft was highly critical of her. but if requesting a restraining order against a wikipedia person b/c she didn't like her page is a p lol thing to do tho
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Oct 6, 2015 17:27
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Broken Machine posted:I mean I get the whole don't reinvent the wheel idea but there's so much more to programming than just standard algorithms er, idk what you're on about here, but a cave-bound hermit professor ekeing out new algorithms doesn't have to worry about requirements gathering, extensibility, working with a team either local or distributed, etc. nothing to do with creative or not, it's fundamentally a different type of work that doesn't apply
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Oct 6, 2015 17:28
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architects draw buildings, it's up to civil engineers to make sure they don't fall down
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Oct 6, 2015 17:29
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qirex posted:the only way that could work is if salaried workers could refuse work with unreasonable requirements without getting fired if you can point to industry standards or make a claim that your professional standing could be jeopardized by such an action then yes in fact you can do exactly that and even win a shitload of money off of your employer if they try
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Oct 6, 2015 17:29
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infernal machines posted:so once per page we're just going to fall back to programming is like art now? lmao yea JawnV6 posted:nothing to do with creative or not, it's fundamentally a different type of work that doesn't apply
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Oct 6, 2015 17:31
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